Lunaro zone-rushing exploit: This is why the scoring team needs to be sent back to their side of the field after scoring a goal

[Aeromancer]

A follow-up on my previous 2 posts concerning the issue which can be found here: post 1 post 2

 

 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Aeromancer
added tags, embedded video

[Phasedragon]

As far as I can see, your entire team just sat around doing nothing, and you even walked directly away from it. There is really no excuse for that, and it is more than possible to completely eliminate this just by being aware and actually going for the ball. Better yet, you can actually stand directly on the pad where it spawns and it will go straight into your scoop when it does.

[Pazgabear]

5 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

As far as I can see, your entire team just sat around doing nothing, and you even walked directly away from it. There is really no excuse for that, and it is more than possible to completely eliminate this just by being aware and actually going for the ball. Better yet, you can actually stand directly on the pad where it spawns and it will go straight into your scoop when it does.

It was his team that scored a second goal just after the replay ended, that shouldn't happen

Even then, while I do agree that some sort of rule should be created to allow defenders to at least take a small breather after a goal, it shouldn't go as far as denying the attackers an option for a direct counter attack, simply locking them out of the zone for a few seconds or until the ball has left the zone would be fine IMO

[Lordricker]

I kind of agree, like if you look at soccer the non scoring team has to kick it first. the other team cant just rush in and kick it away. i do agree that you should be paying attention but it is also possible to be further away from your own kick off than the opposing team

 

[Aeromancer]

1 hour ago, Phasedragon said:

As far as I can see, your entire team just sat around doing nothing, and you even walked directly away from it. There is really no excuse for that, and it is more than possible to completely eliminate this just by being aware and actually going for the ball. Better yet, you can actually stand directly on the pad where it spawns and it will go straight into your scoop when it does.

Just as Pazgabear said, that was my team that scored twice in rapid succession.  Did you pay attention to our energy colors or which side of the field we started from in the video?

[Phasedragon]

1 hour ago, Aeromancer said:

Just as Pazgabear said, that was my team that scored twice in rapid succession.  Did you pay attention to our energy colors or which side of the field we started from in the video?

Either way, the defending team didn't do anything. They let it happen. It is more than possible to stop every single time. And then, if the attackers overextend themselves, the defenders can grab the ball and rush out to mid field and even score a 3 pointer, without contest.

[Pazgabear]

They couldn't have done anything, just watch the replay

As soon as the ball was launched, it got into the player's hand and they just had to launch it in the goal, NOBODY could expect this and be ready to defend. Now I know it's a rare occurrence and usually don't happen in a regular match, but the problem is clearly shown : people rush you as soon as you the ball is launched, encouraging the "GET BALL, LAUNCH IT FAR" habit that we have now.

Defenders SHOULD have the opportunity to prepare a good counter-attack instead of having to rely on the hope they'll catch the ball before the enemy team (which, if the players in said team are good, won't happen), and for that, we need to find something to complement the "Attackers must leave the defenders' zone after a goal" rule

[Aeromancer]

2 hours ago, Phasedragon said:

Either way, the defending team didn't do anything. They let it happen. It is more than possible to stop every single time. And then, if the attackers overextend themselves, the defenders can grab the ball and rush out to mid field and even score a 3 pointer, without contest.

They did not 'let it happen', the Saryn player on our team jumped into position just as the replay started and were able to shoot directly into the goal as soon as the replay was over.  Watch it again, and slow the video at 20 seconds and you'll see the player double-jumping into their zone right before the first replay started.  Their Arcata was still enabled during the first replay and they were standing right on top of the spot where the ball spawned.  The Volt player and I were still in the middle of leaving their zone to reactivate our Arcatas and I barely got out when the Saryn player scored. There was literally nothing they could do.  You'd expect the player of a scoring team to have their Arcata disabled for still being in your zone until they leave, not already have the ball in their hands and tossing it into your goal a second time the instant the replay finishes.

[Phasedragon]

35 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

They did not 'let it happen', the Saryn player on our team jumped into position just as the replay started and were able to shoot directly into the goal as soon as the replay was over.  Watch it again, and slow the video at 20 seconds and you'll see the player double-jumping into their zone right before the first replay started.  Their Arcata was still enabled during the first replay and they were standing right on top of the spot where the ball spawned.  The Volt player and I were still in the middle of leaving their zone to reactivate our Arcatas and I barely got out when the Saryn player scored. There was literally nothing they could do.  You'd expect the player of a scoring team to have their Arcata disabled for still being in your zone until they leave, not already have the ball in their hands and tossing it into your goal a second time the instant the replay finishes.

Yeah, perhaps that's an extreme case of unpredictable lag, not a reason to completely change the game balance. As far as we know, it was just you that was lagging, and from your perspective it looked like he teleported, but the enemies would have had plenty of time. It's far more likely for lag to delay something like that than accelerate it.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Phasedragon

[Chipputer]

14 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

perhaps that's an extreme case of unpredictable lag

There's nothing in that video that you could feasibly say is even close to being lag.

15 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

it looked like he teleported

The replay function shows them teleporting because it had to show what they were doing before and during both scores due to how quickly the second score happened.

The fault here is placed firmly on the Lunaro rules, game coding, and the player who, very clearly, was exploiting something. There was no fault on the other side-- they had exactly zero chance to react to it.
There is no possible way to defend the footage, here. Why would a player jump in to the enemy zone after their teammate scored? It takes exactly zero thought to understand what happened.

[Aeromancer]

51 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

Yeah, perhaps that's an extreme case of unpredictable lag, not a reason to completely change the game balance. As far as we know, it was just you that was lagging, and from your perspective it looked like he teleported, but the enemies would have had plenty of time. It's far more likely for lag to delay something like that than accelerate it.

I can assure you that I've experienced no lag in that match.  If I were to experience lag it would have shown not only during the replay but also during the entirety of the match, not to mention my ping was stable as shown in the bottom left of the video, so trying to claim that I was lagging is pointless.  I'd also appreciate if you didn't try to blame the other team, which you thought was my team in your first reply to this thread, and trying to dismiss the issue we currently have that needs to be addressed.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Aeromancer
added info regarding ping

[Eldnacpeek]

Does not happen in incredibly frequently in my experience, but that doesn't mean it can be ignored. Agreed, this is just a discouragement from playing after witnessing it time after time.

[TaylorsContraction]

The issue isn't even in Lunaro rules as it is with coding. The arcata should be removed from any player in the opponents zone after their team scored wthin the time span of the replay. Right now the code simply checks:

1) Are you on scoring team

2) If yes, are you in opponents zone

3) If yes, remove arcata

The chain of events that happen here is

1) Are you on scoring team

2) Yes you are. Are you in opponents zone?

3) No you aren't, so leave arcata alone - but the same player is now in the process of entering the oppoent zone while everyone is stuck watching the replay. While the replay is happening they have entered the opponent zone and are standing on the ball spawn point with their arcata (possibly already with the ball in their hands).

There are a number of ways to solve this, but I personally find the replays to disrupt the flow of the game. I lose track of my own position (as I could be mid air when a goal is scored) and I also lose track of my opponents. Perhaps the replays should be shown at half-time or end of match. It doesn't have to be all of them but perhaps just the first 5 or something per half.

Edited June 28, 2016 by TaylorsContraction

[Shiverick]

Well its a common case that host often score annother goal before replay ends for all the rest. WHERE ARE DEDICATED SERVERS?

 

[BlackVortex]

1 hour ago, Shiverick said:

Well its a common case that host often score annother goal before replay ends for all the rest. WHERE ARE DEDICATED SERVERS?

 

decicated servers will NEVER happen

it will cost too much money in DE's current business model

 

rumors of dedicated servers have been going around since Dark Sector Conflicts opened, it has never happened though, so don't expect it to come

[Phasedragon]

2 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

decicated servers will NEVER happen

it will cost too much money in DE's current business model

 

rumors of dedicated servers have been going around since Dark Sector Conflicts opened, it has never happened though, so don't expect it to come

They've already said multiple times that there will be community-hosted dedicated servers, coming with the second part of u19.

[DeadlyBard676]

i think a simple way of fixing this is just to make it where the attackers have to go all the way into their zone before they can get their  arcata back.

[-Ryuurei-]

I've rushed in right after the replay ends and done this numerous times, either with normal or unstable shots, but not once have I been able to consistently pull it off against a proper team, maybe once or twice in a match when they were being slow. This only works against "bad" players who respond too slowly. If I've tried this a few times vs a good team and it hasn't worked yet, I'll just retreat to my own zone and let them grab the ball so I can defend instead of wasting my time.

1 hour ago, KiryuKusakabe said:

i think a simple way of fixing this is just to make it where the attackers have to go all the way into their zone before they can get their  arcata back.

All the way into your own zone? How are you supposed to stop 2's from being shot, if you are all the way in the enemy zone and a good player grabs the ball, that ball will score a 2 on you before ANYONE can get back to defend against it, I've done that a fair amount of times. (Bullet jump + aim grab the ball, walljump off the pillar, double jump, aim carefully and throw, as long as your aim is on target it can not be defended against by a team with no dedicated goalie, and if they DO have one, go for a quick unstable 2-pointer instead)

[Aeromancer]

47 minutes ago, DragonSkllzz_of_OG said:

I've rushed in right after the replay ends and done this numerous times, either with normal or unstable shots, but not once have I been able to consistently pull it off against a proper team, maybe once or twice in a match when they were being slow. This only works against "bad" players who respond too slowly. If I've tried this a few times vs a good team and it hasn't worked yet, I'll just retreat to my own zone and let them grab the ball so I can defend instead of wasting my time.

You seem to be missing the point, or chose to ignore the previous posts where it was mentioned that it happened before the replay started.  If it was after the replay was over then yes, your point may be valid since the defending team would have a chance to catch the ball and get it away from their goal before the attacking team can get to it again.

[Velothed]

I would be quite happy with attackers being teleported back to starting position after a goal. Me and my dedicated teammates always cross the center line after a goal. It just seems honourable.

[-Ryuurei-]

1 hour ago, Aeromancer said:

You seem to be missing the point, or chose to ignore the previous posts where it was mentioned that it happened before the replay started.  If it was after the replay was over then yes, your point may be valid since the defending team would have a chance to catch the ball and get it away from their goal before the attacking team can get to it again.

OOOH, did not see that, must've read over it somehow. That is an issue yes.

[DxAdder]

This happens all the time.

Your team gets scored on.

The other teams leaves the zone and goes right back in getting to the ball before the defenders do.

The should make the team that scored all be in there defender zone before the ball drops.

 

[BlackVortex]

18 hours ago, Phasedragon said:

They've already said multiple times that there will be community-hosted dedicated servers, coming with the second part of u19.

They've said that multiple times for the past 2 years?

I'll have to see it before I'll believe it

[Guest Pun-chee]

57 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

They've said that multiple times for the past 2 years?

I'll have to see it before I'll believe it

Is this enough for you?

"Specters update is also coming with some new tech: an all new immersive sound occlusion system, new graphics quality options (like temporal AA) and an experimental 'Tenno crowd-sourced' system for generous Tenno to add dedicated conclave servers to the system."

(I bolded the text)

 

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