Banshee Buffs (slight rework idea)

[SempaiMint]

Banshee last year had the lowest play rate according to DE in 2015. I love Banshee, I find her extremely addicting to play and have been playing her only to find some faults with her.

Then Resonating Quake came out to cheese Draco, and cheese defense missions, and that made me very sad to see a Banshee who is supposed to be a sound/sonar hunter that quickly incapacitates, and kills her target with a sort of "shock" and "awe" style - or at least that's what I envision her as. I definitely didn't want to see her as a static defense junkie like so many other frames. I like to play her as a survival hunter that supports other team mates and makes quick work of enemies. BUT, I don't want her to be a static frame, I also would like some more for solo play.

SO these are just some ideas floating around and opinions I had about a slight rework for Banshee to make her into a decent survival frame that is still squishy AF.

1. Sonic Boom

Everything stays the same except making it into a one handed ability. This is what I want just because she needs to stay mobile.

2. Sonar

Just an idea I had, when Banshee hits a weak spot give her +10% movement speed, just a slight buff to an already amazing ability.

3. Silence

Most ideas I hear is that Silence ought to be re-castable so that we can get the 1 second stun whenever we want. This would move her way up on the spectrum of good frames and give her an ability to gives that Shock part of the Awe.

-Maybe it can be recast after half of the duration is up...

-Maybe give a small FX effect to see the range of silence so that we can bump enemies with it back and forth and keep them at bay.

-Maybe the silence interferes with rocket homing, since it seems to have a high pitched ability to stun people.

4. Sound Quake

This is the ability I have the most quirk with. I don't like how a mobile shock and awe frame has to sit still. Alright maybe people want to cheese Draco, or some defenses. How about the mod Resonating Quake makes the ability do what it does now, fine go ahead CHEESE. But how about normally it creates a zone of sound that does not require a channel and just stuns enemies coming into range.

SO Banshee hits the ground and creates a sound quake that lasts a duration and does what it does atm except for the channel. Banshee stays mobile and the ability range is cut in half. This would help out solo Banshee soooo much since she has no way to protect one side of her, and it will keep her mobile so she doesn't channel and blow up. It would also help her Zenurik build since I find a lot of Banshees run with it just to keep power strength up when efficiency is low.

 

Anyways these are my ideas please comment and be nice, thank you for the read and kick butt Tenno!!

Edited July 4, 2016 by SempaiMint

[FrostedMike]

1. Yes please.

2. I think the main problem with this ability is that you have to recast it over and over again, it costs a lot of energy. I think that instead it should send a pulse every 2 seconds or so for 12 seconds or so.

3. Banshee's passive (making weapons silent) takes this ability's concept. The only think left viable is the short stun. There should be a change to this ability, I have no ideas now.

4. I have no opinion on this one.

Banshee also need survivability.

Edited July 4, 2016 by CommanderSpawn

[Prepotenza]

5 hours ago, SempaiMint said:

Banshee last year had the lowest play rate according to DE in 2015. I love Banshee, I find her extremely addicting to play and have been playing her only to find some faults with her.

Then Resonating Quake came out to cheese Draco, and cheese defense missions, and that made me very sad to see a Banshee who is supposed to be a sound/sonar hunter that quickly incapacitates, and kills her target with a sort of "shock" and "awe" style - or at least that's what I envision her as. I definitely didn't want to see her as a static defense junkie like so many other frames. I like to play her as a survival hunter that supports other team mates and makes quick work of enemies. BUT, I don't want her to be a static frame, I also would like some more for solo play.

SO these are just some ideas floating around and opinions I had about a slight rework for Banshee to make her into a decent survival frame that is still squishy AF.

1. Sonic Boom

Everything stays the same except making it into a one handed ability. This is what I want just because she needs to stay mobile.

2. Sonar

Just an idea I had, when Banshee hits a weak spot give her +10% movement speed, just a slight buff to an already amazing ability.

3. Silence

Most ideas I hear is that Silence ought to be re-castable so that we can get the 1 second stun whenever we want. This would move her way up on the spectrum of good frames and give her an ability to gives that Shock part of the Awe.

-Maybe it can be recast after half of the duration is up...

-Maybe give a small FX effect to see the range of silence so that we can bump enemies with it back and forth and keep them at bay.

-Maybe the silence interferes with rocket homing, since it seems to have a high pitched ability to stun people.

4. Sound Quake

This is the ability I have the most quirk with. I don't like how a mobile shock and awe frame has to sit still. Alright maybe people want to cheese Draco, or some defenses. How about the mod Resonating Quake makes the ability do what it does now, fine go ahead CHEESE. But how about normally it creates a zone of sound that does not require a channel and just stuns enemies coming into range.

SO Banshee hits the ground and creates a sound quake that lasts a duration and does what it does atm except for the channel. Banshee stays mobile and the ability range is cut in half. This would help out solo Banshee soooo much since she has no way to protect one side of her, and it will keep her mobile so she doesn't channel and blow up. It would also help her Zenurik build since I find a lot of Banshees run with it just to keep power strength up when efficiency is low.

 

Anyways these are my ideas please comment and be nice, thank you for the read and kick butt Tenno!!

I didn't even read your post, Banshee does not need a buff.
IMHO: With the current meta Banshee is with no doubt the strongest character around. We have no auto targeting Mesa, no blind Mirage, no Blessing Trinity (that, imho, were the strongest characters back then; there might have been others, but I started playing during Trinity Prime Acess, and these frames were the strongest), Banshee is the only character capable of locking down a whole map (even T4 interception/defense, from the middle of the map you can Soundquake all the spawn points), making ton of damage (about 2k per second with mere 95% power strength) but especially blocking them, they keep getting staggered.
I solo most of the sorties with her, just need a bunch of energy restores.
She needs a rework, like many other frames, but she is already great as it is with the new Resonating Quake, there are plenty of underpowered frames compared to her.

[DeadScream]

12 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

I didn't even read your post, Banshee does not need a buff.
IMHO: With the current meta Banshee is with no doubt the strongest character around. We have no auto targeting Mesa, no blind Mirage, no Blessing Trinity (that, imho, were the strongest characters back then; there might have been others, but I started playing during Trinity Prime Acess, and these frames were the strongest), Banshee is the only character capable of locking down a whole map (even T4 interception/defense, from the middle of the map you can Soundquake all the spawn points), making ton of damage (about 2k per second with mere 95% power strength) but especially blocking them, they keep getting staggered.
I solo most of the sorties with her, just need a bunch of energy restores.
She needs a rework, like many other frames, but she is already great as it is with the new Resonating Quake, there are plenty of underpowered frames compared to her.

So here's the problem : you didn't read the post and your only point of view for a "good frame" is the ability to cheese. 

I played Banshee a big lot since I got her, and even though I like the resonating quake thing, it's making Banshee a one-trick pony  and it's not "being a good frame" imo

[Prepotenza]

Just now, DeadScream said:

So here's the problem : you didn't read the post and your only point of view for a "good frame" is the ability to cheese. 

I played Banshee a big lot since I got her, and even though I like the resonating quake thing, it's making Banshee a one-trick pony  and it's not "being a good frame" imo

So you are asking for a rework, not a buff.
There is a lot of difference.
Many frames are one-trick pony, most of them honestly, and with the current game scaling this is how they have to be played. You might go with a great build who relies on all your abilites and needs good skills to be played, but then a random guy comes with a Resonating Qauke build simply outshining whatever build you are using (or plan to use).

[DeadScream]

Just now, Prepotenza said:

So you are asking for a rework, not a buff.
There is a lot of difference.
Many frames are one-trick pony, most of them honestly, and with the current game scaling this is how they have to be played. You might go with a great build who relies on all your abilites and needs good skills to be played, but then a random guy comes with a Resonating Qauke build simply outshining whatever build you are using (or plan to use).

You are right, that's called a rework. But in order to make other builds viable we have to buff her other abilities or change SQ's mechanic ^^ 

I myself play Banshee with a max efficiency, mobile spam silence+sonar. I find it more fun and more challenging. We may say my Banshee is less powerful because she can't lock a whole map, but I'll continue using her as I currently do. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Hmm... now some of these I can get behind.

1. Sonic Boom becoming a single hand cast makes it a utility, especially as just about every other direct-effect 1 ability is single handed. Agreed.

2. Considering the damage boost to weak points is already significant, on top of her silent weapons, a buff to this might be too much. Parkour already keeps her mobile and the one-hand cast on Boom makes her considerably better as it stands, I wouldn't try to buff this further.

3. Visual range on the ability would be perfect, a definite improvement to be able to see where enemies will be CC'd in order to plan attacks around it, and to help with timing everything else you do.

4. The biggest problem with Sound Quake is the instant recovery. It's a brilliant CC ability, but the second you're done with it, the enemy are shooting at you again rendering that CC useless in solo runs for anything except recovering your health and shields. Mag had this problem with Crush, where enemies would get balled up into little crushed pieces, but then instantly unfold and begin shooting at her again, so they put a recovery period on it for enemies.

If you don't kill them, you need to have a different advantage over them. My recommendation would be exactly that; a recovery period where enemies are staggered in much the same way as Silence, that allows you time to get back up and evade/start shooting/use an ability/etc. On top of that, some kind of de-buff for flying enemies. Those are the most difficult on solo runs, because they aren't caught in it, and a flock of corpus drones chucking mines, sapper balls, leeches and using suicide charges... not fun. So maybe a movement speed de-buff, 80% to 90% fixed (not mod-able) movement de-buff, and a 50% accuracy debuff. 

Minimal change, large improvement. Keeps Quake valid (more so) in team play, but allows the solo player to use it more actively as a room stun and partial damage dealer. Also fits her current animation themes.

[NinjaZeku]

6 hours ago, SempaiMint said:

1. Sonic Boom

Everything stays the same except making it into a one handed ability. This is what I want just because she needs to stay mobile.

How 'bout some more range and damage? 15m / 50 damage is kinda low in comparison to other, similar-ish abilities:

Mag's Pull has 25m / 300 damage (plus the Energy Orb spawn and Magnetize damage boost on top),
Inaros' Dessicate has the same range but triple the damage (as well as DOT + HOT + friggin' Finisher-enabling CC)

6 hours ago, SempaiMint said:

2. Sonar

Just an idea I had, when Banshee hits a weak spot give her +10% movement speed, just a slight buff to an already amazing ability.

Dunno, that effect (which I assume doesn't stack because that would get silly with full-auto weapons) seems too small / not too interesting (sorry),
something like, say ... (a chance of) staggering enemies on Sonar-spot-hit might help her more (against stuff tuff enuff to not just melt, heh).

7 hours ago, SempaiMint said:

3. Silence

Being able to re-apply the stagger without having to wait out the whole duration? OMG yes pls.

Visual indicator might be nice, sure.

If you want protection from missiles and stuff, you could give a deflection (and then homing-disable) functionality to Sonic Boom :P

Also, what with Banshee now being silent 24/7, do you really get enough bang (lol) for your flippin' 75 Energy buck?

7 hours ago, SempaiMint said:

4. Sound Quake

[...] How about the mod Resonating Quake makes the ability do what it does now, fine go ahead CHEESE.
But how about normally it creates a zone of sound that does not require a channel and just stuns enemies coming into range.

Thanks for not taking my delicious cheese away :D

Yeah, regular Sound Quake being stationary was never the best deal,
now that ResoQuake exists it's even less attractive so "splitting it up" to create something more mobility-friendly ...

[Birdframe_Prime]

41 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

How 'bout some more range and damage? 15m / 50 damage is kinda low in comparison to other, similar-ish abilities

Quick poke on this one; it might have low damage, but it's one of the only guaranteed Ragdoll 1 abilities in the game, this is important because ragdolling enemies off a cliff is fatal at any and every level of play. Not always possible in some tile sets, but a guaranteed kill at level 1000, if you're tactical, is always worth a pause.

[Prepotenza]

3 hours ago, DeadScream said:

You are right, that's called a rework. But in order to make other builds viable we have to buff her other abilities or change SQ's mechanic ^^ 

I myself play Banshee with a max efficiency, mobile spam silence+sonar. I find it more fun and more challenging. We may say my Banshee is less powerful because she can't lock a whole map, but I'll continue using her as I currently do. 

Sometimes I do so, I love how Sonar works, but with the current game mechanics you don't really have time to use a build that requires skill to be played.
You can try but then an op guy (Mirage + Simulor, Polarize Mag, RQ Banshee, RJ or EB Excal, Spore Saryn, BS Ash, and all the "I pwn everything on the map without putting effort in that" frames) and they will be hundreds of time more effective than your build.
The main problem is that there is no reason (beside having fun) to use a less effective build over the Cheesy (I didn't get your joke, or slang, about cheese) ones.

[Epsik-kun]

45 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

You can try but then an op guy

"OP guy"

Plays Banshee.

Funny.

 

However, there's one buff I would want for Banshee - less range on Silence.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[SempaiMint]

On 7/4/2016 at 3:53 AM, DeadScream said:

So here's the problem : you didn't read the post and your only point of view for a "good frame" is the ability to cheese. 

I played Banshee a big lot since I got her, and even though I like the resonating quake thing, it's making Banshee a one-trick pony  and it's not "being a good frame" imo

haha yeah, maybe it was a misleading title. I dislike banshee being a one-trick pony atm tbh, but many people like the cheese.

On 7/4/2016 at 4:01 AM, DeadScream said:

You are right, that's called a rework. But in order to make other builds viable we have to buff her other abilities or change SQ's mechanic ^^ 

I myself play Banshee with a max efficiency, mobile spam silence+sonar. I find it more fun and more challenging. We may say my Banshee is less powerful because she can't lock a whole map, but I'll continue using her as I currently do. 

Same I love playing banshee this way!

On 7/4/2016 at 4:39 AM, Thaylien said:

Hmm... now some of these I can get behind.

1. Sonic Boom becoming a single hand cast makes it a utility, especially as just about every other direct-effect 1 ability is single handed. Agreed.

2. Considering the damage boost to weak points is already significant, on top of her silent weapons, a buff to this might be too much. Parkour already keeps her mobile and the one-hand cast on Boom makes her considerably better as it stands, I wouldn't try to buff this further.

3. Visual range on the ability would be perfect, a definite improvement to be able to see where enemies will be CC'd in order to plan attacks around it, and to help with timing everything else you do.

4. The biggest problem with Sound Quake is the instant recovery. It's a brilliant CC ability, but the second you're done with it, the enemy are shooting at you again rendering that CC useless in solo runs for anything except recovering your health and shields. Mag had this problem with Crush, where enemies would get balled up into little crushed pieces, but then instantly unfold and begin shooting at her again, so they put a recovery period on it for enemies.

If you don't kill them, you need to have a different advantage over them. My recommendation would be exactly that; a recovery period where enemies are staggered in much the same way as Silence, that allows you time to get back up and evade/start shooting/use an ability/etc. On top of that, some kind of de-buff for flying enemies. Those are the most difficult on solo runs, because they aren't caught in it, and a flock of corpus drones chucking mines, sapper balls, leeches and using suicide charges... not fun. So maybe a movement speed de-buff, 80% to 90% fixed (not mod-able) movement de-buff, and a 50% accuracy debuff. 

Minimal change, large improvement. Keeps Quake valid (more so) in team play, but allows the solo player to use it more actively as a room stun and partial damage dealer. Also fits her current animation themes.

1. yes please! haha

2. yeah most people say they want more survivability, its not that i want her tankier i just want her survivability to come in the form of speed, and small stuns for that "shock and awe". Often times i noticed when aiming is the most vulnerable time so i thought maybe a movement speed buff right after shooting would help dodge rockets(or run behind something). But yes its a very good ability not gunna lie.

3. I still would like recastablity, but a visual range would be nice without buffing it.

4. I agree that they do need to do something with it, whether its my idea, or a slow area that lasts for a certain amount of time after ending the ability would be purrrrfect ^.^ i could see using that ability in many different ways.

On 7/4/2016 at 5:42 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Dunno, that effect (which I assume doesn't stack because that would get silly with full-auto weapons) seems too small / not too interesting (sorry),
something like, say ... (a chance of) staggering enemies on Sonar-spot-hit might help her more (against stuff tuff enuff to not just melt, heh).

when playing banshee I almost never get killed by who i am aiming at though D: its always the other guys i want to move out of the way of haha. how about a 100% movement speed buff?  XD also "stuff tuff enuff" lmao thats epic ima use that sometime today. Also yes doesn't stack haha

 

On 7/4/2016 at 5:42 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Being able to re-apply the stagger without having to wait out the whole duration? OMG yes pls.

Visual indicator might be nice, sure.

If you want protection from missiles and stuff, you could give a deflection (and then homing-disable) functionality to Sonic Boom :P

yes

yes

and haha omg that would be hilarious on sonic boom XD i want that now o.o

On 7/4/2016 at 5:42 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Thanks for not taking my delicious cheese away :D

lol yw :D, and ty for the positives i upvoted yous.

 

On 7/4/2016 at 7:47 AM, Prepotenza said:

The main problem is that there is no reason (beside having fun) to use a less effective build over the Cheesy (I didn't get your joke, or slang, about cheese) ones

Yeah XD haha you make very good points about reworks and type of abilities, and one trick ponies, and what works but its off topic. We gotta start somewhere. We are concentrating on Solo Banshee players who like to play survivals and a different build other than RQ. Which IMO doesn't scale into super late game for solo play, but yes super f'in OP for CC. But if someone is building for something other then RQ Banshee she isn't OP, she has a hard time surviving, and this "rework" would help other abilities of hers, so RQ people wouldn't be getting a "buff" anyways because they just sitting there haha. Take "rework" and "buff" very lightly friend.

 

Anyways TY for the posts you guys they were awesome to see some feedback ^.^

[BlitzkriegBob]

I started again to play Banshee a few days ago, and I'm glad to see such topic. So I'll give my 2 cents thought about a (very small) rework I've been thinking about.

 

What about Sonar gives the ability to see ennemies through wall, in a similar manner as Codex scanner? I'm fond of stealth gameplay, and I'd like this to become a thing. This would synergize well with punch-trough weapons.

 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 7/3/2016 at 10:10 PM, SempaiMint said:

...

1. Sonic Boom

Everything stays the same except making it into a one handed ability. This is what I want just because she needs to stay mobile.

2. Sonar

Just an idea I had, when Banshee hits a weak spot give her +10% movement speed, just a slight buff to an already amazing ability.

3. Silence

Most ideas I hear is that Silence ought to be re-castable so that we can get the 1 second stun whenever we want. This would move her way up on the spectrum of good frames and give her an ability to gives that Shock part of the Awe.

-Maybe it can be recast after half of the duration is up...

-Maybe give a small FX effect to see the range of silence so that we can bump enemies with it back and forth and keep them at bay.

-Maybe the silence interferes with rocket homing, since it seems to have a high pitched ability to stun people.

..

1) Sonic Boom - Strongly Agree it should be 1-handed cast

2)Sonar - Leave as-is

 

3)Silence - Currently is a 3sec same Non-Augment Paralysis or Justice AoE Blast Proc

- Recastable would be amazing

-I would prefer more Range (Match same base Range as Sonar) However I see Epsik-kun would prefer less base Range....so I suppose leave Range as-is

- Wishful thinking would be Silence as 1-handed animation

Sound Quake - see spoiler below

I think small tweaks to Banshee's mobile CC abilities Sonic Boom and Silence would put her in a great place...heck I'd even take a Prime/Umbra Variant with Zero Armor if it means a larger energy pool

SoundQuake:

Without Augment the base Range is too short and makes Banshee a sitting duck as enemies can easily attack her.

With Augment the ability gets severely amplified and allows for the old AFK playstyle that I thought DE was trying to avoid...

Perhaps the balance lies in toning down the Augment some, or not letting Augment scale from Range Mod*