General Forum Toxicity...

[Sirabot]

1 minute ago, Vifany said:

So, as this thread is about toxicity. Why do you here and not playing you beloved space footbal?

See, now this here is a perfect example of toxic post. Added nothing to any existing conversations or the topic itself and was structured as an insult of one's personal character and behavior with baseless assumptions.

Toxicity Quality Rating 10/10

Thank you for the wonderful example piece. ;D

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

2 minutes ago, Sirabot said:

See, now this here is a perfect example of toxic post. Added nothing to any existing conversations or the topic itself and was structured as an insult of one's personal character and behavior with baseless assumptions.

Toxicity Quality Rating 10/10

Thank you for the wonderful example piece. ;D

Thanks for that, that made my night.... Speaking of which....

Ladies, Gentlemen and Space ninjas... its 4 am for me.... I bid the farewell....

You can hate me all you want, but in the end, my intention is pure... I'm in it to help make warframe better. 

"Make Warframe Great again"

 

ok ok no more jokes

[Yrveth]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

Honestly... i would love for this to happen.... but i doubt it ever will... I have yet to see any indication at all that the developers really pay attention to the forums... There are never any developers responding to simple posts other than forum moderators... Many of the people posting ideas have great ideas... some of them not so great... and others nearly impossible to implement... however, some indication that the developers are actually looking at the forums, rather than using a middle man or ignoring them all together would go a long way in reassuring players like me.

I think they do look. They don't reply very often, and certainly not to everything, but if you make it a habit to check the latest staff replies, you will definitely see activity (I for one have seen a lot of activity in the art&animation which is probably not what you are most interested in but is the sub-board I frequent -- we only see what we are looking at, after all!)

As a whole, I'd guess they keep track of recurring topics (complaints) as well as posts that get a lot of traffic (upvotes) as those would be the biggest indicators of general forum-goer (though not general player) opinions, and it's a time-efficient way to monitor a huge forum like that.

Yeah there is great stuff on the forum, but we should keep in mind that 1) we may be often biased in favour of our own ideas/ideas that appeal to us 2) there are very rarely unique things no one ever thought about before. We as players probably only think about the game part-time, the devs do it full-time, after all. I wouldn't assume they're unaware of bugs and issues especially such that have been brought up multiple times. But it's my understanding that game design is pretty challenging and it probably often comes down to time/effort. Core issues like balance are mighty hard to tackle especially when you can see every day some people saying X is great, and other people saying X is horrible, and both groups being equally convinced that they are right.

So you want to be assured that the dev team takes user feedback into consideration but, like, really. Which feedback?

[Drufo]

You guys (all of you) should learn to relax

[Azrael]

7 minutes ago, Vifany said:

So, as this thread is about toxicity. Why do you here and not playing you beloved space footbal?

Translation: "Seeing as how we're all here discussing toxicity, please kind sirs, allow me to demonstrate the topic at hand so we may all continue the discussion fully cognizant of the content and nature of toxic posts. "

Thank you so much, you have enlightened the discussion enormously.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, Belgard said:

I think they do look. They don't reply very often, and certainly not to everything, but if you make it a habit to check the latest staff replies, you will definitely see activity (I for one have seen a lot of activity in the art&animation which is probably not what you are most interested in but is the sub-board I frequent -- we only see what we are looking at, after all!)

As a whole, I'd guess they keep track of recurring topics (complaints) as well as posts that get a lot of traffic (upvotes) as those would be the biggest indicators of general forum-goer (though not general player) opinions, and it's a time-efficient way to monitor a huge forum like that.

Yeah there is great stuff on the forum, but we should keep in mind that 1) we may be often biased in favour of our own ideas/ideas that appeal to us 2) there are very rarely unique things no one ever thought about before. We as players probably only think about the game part-time, the devs do it full-time, after all. I wouldn't assume they're unaware of bugs and issues especially such that have been brought up multiple times. But it's my understanding that game design is pretty challenging and it probably often comes down to time/effort. Core issues like balance are mighty hard to tackle especially when you can see every day some people saying X is great, and other people saying X is horrible, and both groups being equally convinced that they are right.

So you want to be assured that the dev team takes user feedback into consideration but, like, really. Which feedback?

There is a diffrence between Development Staff and Community Managers... Community Managers dont have much impact on the development of the game. I would love to see actual developers in the forums from time to time...to let people pick their minds and give some ideas.

[TheTundraTerror]

 

[Azrael]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

There is a diffrence between Development Staff and Community Managers... Community Managers dont have much impact on the development of the game. I would love to see actual developers in the forums from time to time...to let people pick their minds and give some ideas.

There's a developer workshop literally going on at this exact moment.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

There's a developer workshop literally going on at this exact moment.

The one started nearly a week ago full of projections of what they would like to see? I see a few moderators answering questions and explaining things, but no developers actually talking about their ideas.

[Sirabot]

5 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Translation: "Seeing as how we're all here discussing toxicity, please kind sirs, allow me to demonstrate the topic at hand so we may all continue the discussion fully cognizant of the content and nature of toxic posts. "

Thank you so much, you have enlightened the discussion enormously.

Sometimes I struggle in knowing what's considered toxic and what's not. After being accused of being so myself so many times for simply disagreeing with someone, the line blurs but then from the ether emerges a reminder that I've not yet lived long enough to become the villain. Anti-Hero maybe

(I don't mean this as a jab at anyone) it happens a lot in general. The forums are an infuriating place at times.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Sirabot

[(NSW)GameV8]

3 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

 

 

Right there with ya.

Spoiler

 

[-CM-Emptiness]

1 hour ago, PureIcarus said:

To the developers... 2 points... First, The constant toxicity of the forums has really god unnoticed by your staff, it seems that they are just brushed aside as acceptable. And Second... Listening to the players who have concerns about the game is far more effective than trying to develop things based on what people "like" because when it comes down to it, the people that find flaws are generally right, and the players who defend the game to their dieing breath are generally wrong.

To the players... Support threads looking for solutions, if you don't agree with their solution, suggest different ideas to fix the problems...do NOT... and this is important... do NOT disregard the post as just another complaint thread, this is the biggest mistake a developer can make. A game is built around players and for players... not for the developers.

And lastly... Dont try to be right.... The forums is based around opinions... the moment you try to say your opinion is better or more important is the moment you become worse than LoL players.

Whilst I admire your effort, the majority of this post is pretty pointless. DE moves the game in their own direction; just because it sometimes coincides with the goals of the 'wrong' community, doesn't mean DE actually goes down that same road. Players are also the only ones who can change themselves, so you won't ever fix the forum toxicity. The best you can do is moderate it, which is really the only point that you have :P I'll support it though.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

2 minutes ago, windywisp said:

 

Right there with ya.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

yeaaa... basically you're proving what this post is about.... More memes... less real additions... You are toxic. 

[Azrael]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

The one started nearly a week ago full of projections of what they would like to see? I see a few moderators answering questions and explaining things, but no developers actually talking about their ideas.

It's true they're a bit quiet. I'm a bit unhappy about it, because most of us have many strong concerns which we have been voicing, and they havent been addressed. But I don't blame them, look at how many pages there are!

 

3 minutes ago, Sirabot said:

I've not yet lived long enough to become the villain.

Then this is your chance! Hurry up and die a hero, while you still can!   :)

[TheTundraTerror]

8 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

yeaaa... basically you're proving what this post is about.... More memes... less real additions... You are toxic. 

You're just starting drama. This thread is basically

 

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

3 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

You're just starting drama.

This argument was over before it started... the point to the post was to bring attention to the developers what toxicity is... I have alleviated multiple sources of drama already and you are simply trying to start more. This post may very well end up blocked, but it has served its purpose. A location, away from the original triggers to solve a problem, that problem has been solved... now the rest of the post is simply to address an issue in the community and provide bits of evidence of what and where it is coming from.... Thank you kind sir for being said evidence, please enjoy the rest of your evening.

[TheTundraTerror]

3 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

the point to the post was to bring attention to the developers what toxicity is

 

People who make video games for a living already know about toxicity. This thread is doing nothing beyond... well, exactly what my video shown.

Edited July 8, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[Sirabot]

7 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

The one started nearly a week ago full of projections of what they would like to see? I see a few moderators answering questions and explaining things, but no developers actually talking about their ideas.

I think a lot of us went through this back around update 8. The devs used to respond on the forums, used to talk to us in game all the time. the community was much smaller back then. Then the community got really big, really fast and every time the devs would talk the threads or chat would flood. The dev's presence grew more rare and more distant.Then the community starting being very toxic toward the devs and the devs just ceased all direct communication with the community. It was really sad because I really admire Steve and liked having chit chats with him but here were are. Just gotta deal with the fact that when the devs talk to the playerbase, there are too many people wanting their attention at once Think twitch chat on a dev stream. We're not getting that back. 

[NekroArts]

I'm just gonna drop this here because it needs comic relief (shoot me)

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, Sirabot said:

I think a lot of us went through this back around update 8. The devs used to respond on the forums, used to talk to us in game all the time. the community was much smaller back then. Then the community got really big, really fast and every time the devs would talk the threads or chat would flood. The dev's presence grew more rare and more distant.Then the community starting being very toxic toward the devs and the devs just ceased all direct communication with the community. It was really sad because I really admire Steve and liked having chit chats with him but here were are. Just gotta deal with the fact that when the devs talk to the playerbase, there are too many people wanting their attention at once Think twitch chat on a dev stream. We're not getting that back. 

I don't think that's a good course for the developers, essentially cutting off forum contact is isolating the players from the developers. The Community managers can only relay so much... and as you said, there is so many. A strong relationship between the developers and the players is necessary for a game to really survive.

 

1 minute ago, TheTundraTerror said:

 

People who make video games for a living know all about what toxicity is all about.

Yet they haven't banned you... hmm.

 

 

Ok, really, time for bed.

[TheTundraTerror]

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

Yet they haven't banned you... hmm.

Wow, and you made a thread calling out other people for "toxicity"?

Edited July 8, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

43 minutes ago, Vifany said:

DONT READ THREAD @  ANSWER FAST
So, mr.PureIcarus I must say thou something. First of all so-called "toxicity" is  aftermath of so-called "community management" and attemps of building, again, so-called "healthy community". Prohibitionism, wich is quiet popular among todays formum managers and other kinds of moderators, is leads us to this "toxicity" wich is in point of fact just way to bypass restrictions of strong language and other types of emotional speak. Is about moderator blindness.

Oh right. People call me an idiot because they're not allowed to call me the n word. Obviously the way to reduce toxicity is to allow it, as any game with voice chat shows.

43 minutes ago, Vifany said:

About concerns. Look at forum rules: Dev Bashing is Prohibited. Any kind of focused concerns or complains about game or development may be treated as dev bashing. Also this S#&$ is reason why forums crowded with fanboys that wants to see warframe as PvP Footbal simulater with robot characters. 
It is life, desu.

I have questioned DE's business practices and their skill as developers many times. Never had anything deleted; people constantly use this as an excuse to say whatever ridiculous stuff they want but it doesn't hold up.

[(PSN)bonateIIo]

2 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Wow, and you made a thread calling out other people for "toxicity"?

 

nice thing you got there 1 min your get 2 upvotes, nice magic. not once not twice but 3 times just in this topic, @(*()$ wizard you are. you are not bringing anything to the conversation except toxicity.

Well I didn't bring anything either, but it pissed me off a bit. Good Luck spreading Cancer.

 

[TheTundraTerror]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)bonateIIo said:

you are not bringing anything to the conversation except toxicity

2 minutes ago, (PS4)bonateIIo said:

Well I didn't bring anything either, but it pissed me off a bit. Good Luck spreading Cancer

[Tenno-nymous]

Most of us just watch devstream and actually just learn what they do from there. No more additional questions, drama etc. You want to discuss something? Try it with your guild/alliance first, or hell if you guys have teamspeak/discord do it there. Its not always "notice me sempai".