Puncture And What It Should Do

[Excitonex]

I've recently been trying out the puncture mod on a variety of different weapons and overall I've been disappointed. While the rifle puncture works pretty much how you would expect, allowing you to shoot through many enemies, the shotgun and pistol puncture have nearly no noticeable effect. For a mod that takes 15 energy and is supposedly the peak of tactical weapon mods it does not seem up to snuff.

Puncture should be equal across all weapons unless it's cost is going to be reduced for those with reduced puncture distance. Puncture should also be modified to give you up to 2m of puncture distance at max rank. This will allow players to actually shoot through objects to hit enemies. In the void, for example, many of the walls and shifting cover are only 2m thick so a player with puncture should notice a large difference between having the mod equipped and not.

Why should it work this way? Well, as I pointed out the mod requires 15 energy and is the highest costing tactical mod that you can place in a weapon. This means it should rival mods like hornet strike/serration and multishot in the amount of killing power it gives you. While the puncture would greatly increase players damage in some instances, it's not always going to be effective. This, I believe, is the idea of tactical mods and because puncture is the pinnacle of tactical mods it should also be one of the most useful. Allowing us to shoot farther through cover would make this mod worth it's cost.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Excitonex

[Lady_Khaos]

I definitely agree. 0.1 meter of puncture is nothing. Not even sure that is enough to go through an enemy. It's such an underwhelming mod.

[Blackhog]

Well the current pucnture is the extreme opposite of the old mod system we had ( eg 7m puncture).I hope that the dev team will find the middle balance between the two.

[lstalri]

7m puncture seems like it would actually balance snipers, since so much damage gets wasted on small targets. 

[Toddwjp]

i think it should be changed to 2m

[Phatose]

A 2m puncture typically would not actually puncture a 2m thick wall nearly all of the of the time.  It would only work if you hit the wall dead on - at even a slight angle, you'd be passing through more the 2m of material.

 

I haven't actually managed to get these mods yet.  My understanding is that it will puncture only 1 time, through 1 thing less then it's power thick, right?  Suspect it would be more useful if it were a total thickness - a 2m penetrate could pass through a 1m wall, 2 .5m enemies, then stop in a third.  But might be overpowered.  As it is, comparing to pure damage/multishot mods probably isn't a great idea, since those are crazy OP.

[Excitonex]

A 2m puncture typically would not actually puncture a 2m thick wall nearly all of the of the time.  It would only work if you hit the wall dead on - at even a slight angle, you'd be passing through more the 2m of material.

 

I haven't actually managed to get these mods yet.  My understanding is that it will puncture only 1 time, through 1 thing less then it's power thick, right?  Suspect it would be more useful if it were a total thickness - a 2m penetrate could pass through a 1m wall, 2 .5m enemies, then stop in a third.  But might be overpowered.  As it is, comparing to pure damage/multishot mods probably isn't a great idea, since those are crazy OP.

I suppose you're correct about the distance. Though with 5 ranks we would probably get 0.35m per rank making the final puncture distance actually 2.1. Maybe it should be increased to 3m? 0.5m per rank would be nice and even.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Excitonex

[Reichmar]

+1 

 

In favor of puncture actually being useful. Now its garbage.

 

In fact, I'm in favor of every mod that you slot being a conscious choice instead of, "put these on, the others suck".

[xmrsmoothx]

What if all weapons had innate puncture and puncture mods increased it by a percentage?

Edited June 20, 2013 by xmrsmoothx

[Tetsmeha]

2m is a good number. On a group of grineer that are stacked up against a wall it should hit at least 2 of them with just 2m.

 

If DE were to make it 1m max then it would only be good if a vauban used vortex in groups. And it's dumb if a mod requires a certain frame's power to be effective.

[Saavedro]

Man, I miss the old puncture. Being able to shoot through closed doors was the best. Since the new mod system hit, I haven't even bothered with puncture since it's just not worth the cost. Would definitely love to see it buffed!

[Tyrian3k]

Just an idea, but wouldn't it be nice if puncture didn't give your bullet a set distance it can travel through obstacles, but a set number of obstacles it can travel through?

Leveling up the mod would increase the number of obstacles the bullet can pass through.

[Eirshy]

Just an idea, but wouldn't it be nice if puncture didn't give your bullet a set distance it can travel through obstacles, but a set number of obstacles it can travel through?

Leveling up the mod would increase the number of obstacles the bullet can pass through.

That would almost definitely be both OP and UP. I't give it a set number of targets it can hit, while simultaneously giving your weapon a range of "yes" at max rank and allowing you to completely ignore cover without ranking it up.

Edited June 20, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[BiancaRoughfin]

Based on what a friend of mine whos been testing the Metal Auger mod, he is able to hit up to 7 enemies in a Row with 1 shot of his Latron Prime, not considering that he uses Split Chamber mod.

 

I use the Metal Auger mod on my DethCube, mostly to kill those anoying shield Grineers but it works well to kill enemies behind containers as the Cube shoots on an angle from above, also to give a few more hits on enemies that seek cover behind walls before the cube stops shooting.

 

I havent used it much on my main weapons, specialy becouse the mod was on rank 1 and i currently use it on max rank on my Cube.

[W4RM4CHIN3]

+1

[SyfonMK]

I've also do some testing with the current puncture and the results seems to be a bit random for me.

I've used Latron prime with maxed puncture and cryo rounds for more visible effect.

I was able to shot through ancients most of the time, but every kind of light infested seem to be too thick to penetrate.

Also for grinners it was around ~30-40% chance that i was able to get 2 kills with one shot.

 

My conclusion is, the bullet trajectory after penetration is either inconsistent or only a particulat body part can be penetrated

(it was almost impossible to shot through grinners torso, headshots worked 50/50 and legs were the easiest to pass through)

Also the distance between both targets can be an important factor.

I was able to do only one shot with both targets being far away from each other (like 10+ meters)

the rest was succesful only when both targets were very close to each other.

 

It will be nice if this mod could guarantee the bullets to be able to pass through every standard enemy.

2m or 3m penetration can give rather random benefits while ability to just pass through one enemy to hit the other behind

could ensure more predictable behaviour.

[Excitonex]

I've also do some testing with the current puncture and the results seems to be a bit random for me.

I've used Latron prime with maxed puncture and cryo rounds for more visible effect.

I was able to shot through ancients most of the time, but every kind of light infested seem to be too thick to penetrate.

Also for grinners it was around ~30-40% chance that i was able to get 2 kills with one shot.

 

My conclusion is, the bullet trajectory after penetration is either inconsistent or only a particulat body part can be penetrated

(it was almost impossible to shot through grinners torso, headshots worked 50/50 and legs were the easiest to pass through)

Also the distance between both targets can be an important factor.

I was able to do only one shot with both targets being far away from each other (like 10+ meters)

the rest was succesful only when both targets were very close to each other.

 

It will be nice if this mod could guarantee the bullets to be able to pass through every standard enemy.

2m or 3m penetration can give rather random benefits while ability to just pass through one enemy to hit the other behind

could ensure more predictable behaviour.

Yeah the current puncture only shoots through certain body parts because the thickest parts of those enemies are greater than 0.6m. I'm not even sure what the shotgun and pistol puncture can shoot through other than a grineer shield, maybe someone's hand/arm.

[Aggh]

What if all weapons had innate puncture and puncture mods increased it by a percentage?

^This.  Would be one more thing that would allow them to give weapons real flavor with varying base puncture for different weapons.  Maybe have some weapons be able to puncture enemies better than cover too.

[BoompigXD]

What if all weapons had innate puncture and puncture mods increased it by a percentage?

Would probably OP as heck unless the puncture mod was kept in its current state. Puncture could probably be added as a stat to weapons and each weapon would vary.

 

Weapons with lower RoT would get more puncture and etc.

Edited June 21, 2013 by BoompigXD

[Lady_Khaos]

What if all weapons had innate puncture and puncture mods increased it by a percentage?

 

^This.  Would be one more thing that would allow them to give weapons real flavor with varying base puncture for different weapons.  Maybe have some weapons be able to puncture enemies better than cover too.

 

Kunai have innate puncture. :D Sometimes it seems like my Dread arrows do too (killing multiple enemies in a row, but the body isn't flying back to hit the guy behind him as is supposed to be the reason for it)

[EclipsedHusky]

Honestly I would prefer if puncture caused a bleeding effect rather than piercing through things. At the very least it needs a good 2-3 feet currently the rifle meter limit is just below two feet...

[lstalri]

Kunai/Despair and Paris/Dread both have innate 100% puncture and they're pretty legit.  Lanka now has a very small puncture, and sometimes it's pretty sick, but it's still not really the same...

[Mhak]

When does puncture start going through enemies? I have mine at 0.3 and it still doesn't travel through anything except thin cover =/

[Excitonex]

When does puncture start going through enemies? I have mine at 0.3 and it still doesn't travel through anything except thin cover =/

0.4 it will start going through some enemies. At 0.6 you can shoot through all but the thickest enemies.

[lstalri]

Question: does the ".6m puncture" mean it will puncture back .6 meters from where it originally impacts and see if it makes it through the object, and then go on until it hits something?  Or does it just mean "do I hit something else after .6m from hitting something."