Loki balance

[Nlim]

1 hour ago, Deskhon said:

Some people actually provided good reasons for loki not to get nerfed, author either replies to them with (Trigger warning) or doesn't reply at all.

Yeah good reasons such as:

1. Second guessing the intentions of anyone who asks for a nerf.

2. Pretending that a enemy with a baton is some kind of huge threat in a game with bullet jumps.

3. Demanding that the game shall be balanced around enemies above lvl 100.

4. Pretending that op abilities are some kind of innovation which keeps the game from being gears of war or whatever.

5. Loki is squishy - which is about the only valid one from my point of view but this doesn´t mean that therefor his skills should be gamebreaking.

And let me expand a little on point one. I know that it is popular to play arm chair psychologist on the internet but lets face it - most people aren´t even capeable of honestly representing the argument of the opposition let alone being able to second guess their thougths.

So I´ll make it easy for you: The reason why at least I want certain abilities nerfed/changed is because I find playing with them utterly boring. I constantly have to refrain from useing certain things in this game because otherwise I´ll be bored to death since enemies are utterly unable to compete in any way. I don´t ask for nerfs for no reason or out of spite or because I want all useful abilities removed nor am I salty because my frame got nerfed - rather I want one ability of my fav frame also nerfed/changed.

I know it is a weird thougth for people who see the game as a grind but there are some people here who play the game for the gameplay and again some of those prefer gameplay with some form of challenge. And no selfimposed challenges are not a solution - they don´t really work for pugs, cut back on the ingame progression and are usually less fun to play than a challenge desigend by a good dev.

[Deskhon]

11 minutes ago, Nlim said:

 

4. Pretending that op abilities are some kind of innovation which keeps the game from being gears of war or whatever.

So I´ll make it easy for you: The reason why at least I want certain abilities nerfed/changed is because I find playing with them utterly boring. I constantly have to refrain from useing certain things in this game because otherwise I´ll be bored to death since enemies are utterly unable to compete in any way. I don´t ask for nerfs for no reason or out of spite or because I want all useful abilities removed nor am I salty because my frame got nerfed - rather I want one ability of my fav frame also nerfed/changed.

I know it is a weird thougth for people who see the game as a grind but there are some people here who play the game for the gameplay and again some of those prefer gameplay with some form of challenge. And no selfimposed challenges are not a solution - they don´t really work for pugs, cut back on the ingame progression and are usually less fun to play than a challenge desigend by a good dev.

1. Guy suggested a threat system when enemies will hear your steps and all that stuff, I said that it's not a complicated stealth game like Metal gear for this.

About difficulty, yes it is easy.. When you're not doing sorties/raids..

But I don't want my frames to be nerfed to the point when no one will want it in the team or it won't make sense to use it. If anything, there should he more enemies that can feel presence of a invisible frame, i agree with the guy who said that first. 

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Deskhon
.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

25 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

"Limbo's ult doesn't have a powerful CC like Frosts. Frosts targets either are dead or are able to be killed. Limbo cant throw a bubble and they die. "

Yes it does, it knocks down everyone in range, and if they are still in there, they literally deal zero damage to the whole squad (assuming you didnt cast it on your squad) Also with enough str Limbo's bubble CAN and WILL kill on cast. 

"I wasnt talking about the blinds im talking about the dps side."

Blind doesnt have DPS tho, and Excals 4 doesnt have anything to do with LoS so I dont know why you would think it would. Im lost as to what you mean here now. 

"Actually it is the same because im not damaging as many enemies as i was when i began with PM."

Its literally not the same tho, PM still has a range of 50m, you just need to aim it now. Of course you are hitting less enemies, but the range remains the same. I dont know what to tell you on that one. 

"Actually MP does do damage when it explodes and when the person who gets hit with the explosion dies he explodes. So thats not OP but PM was? How, because of the Aimbot? So if Mesa killed 1 person can i Aimbot after that?"

I find it seriously hard to believe that you are actively advocating for a literal aimbot. How do you think people explode? You have to kill them yourself still, or your teammates have to, and at max it deals 800 blast damage in a 10m radius. Considering the fact that 800 BLAST damage really isnt alot, and 10m is super short, ima go ahead and say that NO MP is NOT OP at all. Its strong sure, but its an ULT. On top of that the meta and most used builds for it literally dont benefit from the explosions at all, so that making it "OP" is moot anyway. The only time the explosion actually kills other enemies is in low level missions. (hint: everything is OP on Mercury) I dont even understand the point of your last sentence, theres no reason for you to ever have a 50m aimbot under any circumstance. 

 

"That whole "frost ult is around him" thing works perfectly right here, just wanna put that out there. Because more times than not Nova 4ths, kills 1 person and MP does the rest. And thats not even Aimbot its just chain death. "

I dont understand your statement on Frost's ult here either, are you agreeing with me? Like I said, more often than not (in practical use NOT on Mercury) MP doesnt do that much work with explosions. For the sake of argument, lets say it did. You still have to go thru a long cast animation, and wait for the wave to hit an enemy, and THEN proceed to murder it to cause that chain of death. This is alot more work then pressing 4 and holding LMB and melting anything 50m around you in LoS. 

"So i have to adapt to the nerfs but because of illogical reasons your frames get to stay the same? Makes zero sense."

You call my reasons illogical when ive given you plenty of logic behind my reasoning while you continue to come at me with the same reasons, or reasons that are just flat out wrong or anecdotal? The answer is yes, yes you have to adapt because the nerfs are here and you have no choice. I adapted and so did majority of the playerbase, its really not that hard.

Also "my frames"? What are you talking about? I dont consider any of the frames we talked about favorites of mine. I main Volt, and guess what happened when his changes came out? I adapted and still use him, to great effect too. Adapt or die, but dont complain on the forums about your lack of willingness to adapt. 

Knockdown is nowhere near as powerful as freezing and you know this. You literally do zero damage to enemies inside the bubble. And Cataclysms damage falls of wayyyyyyyy early and you know this as well.

You keep bringing up this blind when i already said im talking about the dps side of the 4ths of Excalibur and Mirage. You knew this as well. Not even going to finish reading that statement.

I went from hitting 2 people at once with PM to hitting 1 person. The reticule is literally affected by RANGE MODS. I literally don't know how else to explain this.

I just said she kills the first person and then there's a chain reaction. Are you purposely ignoring parts of my responses or what? You think an Aimbot is wrong but you think this wave that hits every single enemy and slows them plus does damage and goes like 2-3 rooms over is ok.Mesa had an Aimbot, she also was stuck in place AND had to keep herself protected with her 2&3 AND now,for some stupid reason, her channelling is affected by duration. Synergy is something Nova doesn't have yet was the sole reason for Saryns rework. But you think thats ok. This part of the conversation is pointless.

I was using your frost statement as an example for Mesa's "AIMBOT". So you waiting for someone to be affected by MP is more work then pressing a button? I cant understand that. Nova casts and she's mobile. Mesa has to stay in place AND her enemies are not "slowed". So not only do i have to make sure im holding the button i gotta make sure i dont get killed while i cant move. Sounds like more work to me. We not on Mercury right? As you said, everything is OP there. So lets go to LoR. Oh wait, no one wants a Mesa in LoR.  Pre or post nerf. There's always a Nova though.... No CC, damage is next to nothing with Mesa in LoR, but her "AIMBOT", right?

Volt was buffed up quite a bit, wth did you adapt to exactly? An Ult with an even better CC? A mobile unbreakable shield?("secondary only though", DE themselves have stated that secondaries are superior to everything.)

I have adapted to the nerfs to my frames and your assuming i haven't makes you look like a fool. Just the assumption mainly, but still. Yes i have adapted, doesn't mean i wont voice my opinion on the matter.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

56 minutes ago, 3tomatoes said:

What exactly is it that you want?

What i want is for everyone to stop complaining about certain frames saying "OP" but when it comes to the main frames they are perfectly balanced because "low armor".

[Rakosta_Kai]

11 minutes ago, Nlim said:

Yeah good reasons such as:

1. Second guessing the intentions of anyone who asks for a nerf.

2. Pretending that a enemy with a baton is some kind of huge threat in a game with bullet jumps.

3. Demanding that the game shall be balanced around enemies above lvl 100.

4. Pretending that op abilities are some kind of innovation which keeps the game from being gears of war or whatever.

5. Loki is squishy - which is about the only valid one from my point of view but this doesn´t mean that therefor his skills should be gamebreaking.

And let me expand a little on point one. I know that it is popular to play arm chair psychologist on the internet but lets face it - most people aren´t even capeable of honestly representing the argument of the opposition let alone being able to second guess their thougths.

...You proved your own point here by doing the same thing.

11 minutes ago, Nlim said:

So I´ll make it easy for you: The reason why at least I want certain abilities nerfed/changed is because I find playing with them utterly boring. I constantly have to refrain from useing certain things in this game because otherwise I´ll be bored to death since enemies are utterly unable to compete in any way. I don´t ask for nerfs for no reason or out of spite or because I want all useful abilities removed nor am I salty because my frame got nerfed - rather I want one ability of my fav frame also nerfed/changed.

That is called restraint

If an ability or setup makes the game to easy for you or reduces your engagement... You restrain yourself and refrain from using it.

You don't ask for nerfs because you want to use it but it's not fun for you... That's so selfish, it's silly.

14 minutes ago, Nlim said:

I know it is a weird thougth for people who see the game as a grind but there are some people here who play the game for the gameplay and again some of those prefer gameplay with some form of challenge. And no selfimposed challenges are not a solution - they don´t really work for pugs, cut back on the ingame progression and are usually less fun to play than a challenge desigend by a good dev.

Everybody's definition of challenge is different.

You need to respect those of others if you expect yours to be respected in turn.

With absolutely no disrespect to you...Your opinions highlight why I have an issue with almost every nerf complaint in this game.

Almost every one of them centers around "I".

"I find it too easy... It should be nerfed."

"I think it does too much damage... It should be nerfed."

"It make my play experience un-fun...It should be nerfed."

...It's not all about you.

The simple fact of the matter in regard to this thread and this subject is that almost every argument to have Loki nerfed is bad.

"ID encroaches": So does roughly 1/3rd of every skill in the game

"Loki enjoys too much Invis": 1 Focus school, 2 sentinel pets,  and multiple frame abilities disagree strenuously.

"RD/ID should have a timer": Now empirically support why that should be in comparison to other CC skills and watch the argument fall flat.

Sure, it can be argued that Loki is OP... It can be argued that every frame in the game is OP.

...It can be argued that almost every weapon in the game is OP.

...It can be argued that most attribute mod synergies are OP.

...It can be argued that Forma, as a process, is OP.

...It can be argued that every restore item in the game is OP.

...It can be argued that Parkour, Damage, and Melee 2.0 is OP in relation to 1.0.

The question has less to do with whether something is OP as it does what it's OP in relation to comparatively— That answer is rarely objective.

When you want to change the game experience of all... You need to be objective.

 

 

[armedpoop]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Knockdown is nowhere near as powerful as freezing and you know this. You literally do zero damage to enemies inside the bubble. And Cataclysms damage falls of wayyyyyyyy early and you know this as well.

You keep bringing up this blind when i already said im talking about the dps side of the 4ths of Excalibur and Mirage. You knew this as well. Not even going to finish reading that statement.

I went from hitting 2 people at once with PM to hitting 1 person. The reticule is literally affected by RANGE MODS. I literally don't know how else to explain this.

I just said she kills the first person and then there's a chain reaction. Are you purposely ignoring parts of my responses or what? You think an Aimbot is wrong but you think this wave that hits every single enemy and slows them plus does damage and goes like 2-3 rooms over is ok.Mesa had an Aimbot, she also was stuck in place AND had to keep herself protected with her 2&3 AND now,for some stupid reason, her channelling is affected by duration. Synergy is something Nova doesn't have yet was the sole reason for Saryns rework. But you think thats ok. This part of the conversation is pointless.

I was using your frost statement as an example for Mesa's "AIMBOT". So you waiting for someone to be affected by MP is more work then pressing a button? I cant understand that. Nova casts and she's mobile. Mesa has to stay in place AND her enemies are not "slowed". So not only do i have to make sure im holding the button i gotta make sure i dont get killed while i cant move. Sounds like more work to me. We not on Mercury right? As you said, everything is OP there. So lets go to LoR. Oh wait, no one wants a Mesa in LoR.  Pre or post nerf. There's always a Nova though.... No CC, damage is next to nothing with Mesa in LoR, but her "AIMBOT", right?

Volt was buffed up quite a bit, wth did you adapt to exactly? An Ult with an even better CC? A mobile unbreakable shield?("secondary only though", DE themselves have stated that secondaries are superior to everything.)

I have adapted to the nerfs to my frames and your assuming i haven't makes you look like a fool. Just the assumption mainly, but still. Yes i have adapted, doesn't mean i wont voice my opinion on the matter.

Wow, this is starting to get old so ill pick and choose what I respond to now. 

LoR literally has nothing to do with dealing damage, thats why you dont see any damage frames in there besides Excal or Mirage, and they are only there for blinds. The fact that you even think you need damage in LoR is pretty ameteur of you to say the least. You are literally mad that Nova is more useful in a raid than a Mesa, seriously? 

Yes Mesa's Fov is affected by range mods, but her shooting range isnt and never has been. And yes waiting for your MP to affect a room is much more difficult than pressing 4 and holding lmb while spinning your camera around. (I just put my 4th forma on my Mesa so i have some recent experience with this) The change to make duration effect the channeling of PM isnt just for PM, its for all channeled abilities, do you understand the mechanics of the game? 

Synergy is something alotta frames dont have yet, so? Maybe Mesa will get some eventually, or maybe nova will get some? Who knows? Who cares? We are talking about the here and now. 

Volt's changes were controversial at best. Riot shield eats way too much energy to ever be viable, and his 4 is pretty unreliable CC when you actually start using it, especially against shielded enemies. (I even made a video about it too if you are interested) His shield was, and is still his bread and butter imo. More so now that it blocks explosives. 

I mean im gonna continue to assume you havent adapted as long as you keep complaining about them here. Hijacking a thread about Loki and complaining about some completely unrelated nerfs makes YOU look like a fool. That and the fact that you are literally advocating to bring back a literal aimbot. 

[(PSN)wonderwoman814]

its really just the mod that's the problem disarm its self is good the way it is.

[cghawk]

lets face it, if DE is going to rework scaling they will at the very least make disarm duration based instead of permanent or at least SOMETHING, you know it's happening, DE knows it's happening, only remaining questions is when, not to mention it will probably also not go through walls anymore and all that, it's coming all you gotta do is wait for it.

[Arniox]

14 hours ago, Cenat said:

I was thinking way so many people hate Loki and when I got Loki Prime today I found out his Invis was okay since he didn't have offensive abilities then I saw RD. Holy horseshoes. I thought maybe...just maybe it could be at base 100% chance to disarm but reduced by Overextended? Idk it would just mean you can't go crazy range. And maybe 80% chance to disarm enemies with Overextended. 

it doesn't need to be tampered with. Idk why everyone looks at loki's disarm as being op it's hardly that. Without the augment it doesn't even cc. There is no cc without the augment, just a little de-buff to enemies, with the augment it's quite good but it's way less powerful than all other frames cc in the game and the rad proc doesn't last long. Having it be reduced by mods is also pretty bad idea since it's a base stat kinda like mesa's 4th being a static 50 meters. If loki's static 100% to disarm was changed by mods it would be impossible to mod well. Anyways, as I was saying, his cc is hardly op in anyway at high level.

Nyx is the most similar to loki and is more powerful, being like loki except without the need for an augment and now with her passive, she is like what you're saying with a chance to disarm and with loki's augment inbuilt.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Arniox

[PossiblyMG]

I read only the OP and not cared about all these 4-5 pages, but the main point is:

Nyx > Loki

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Honestly I've stopped playing Loki. He's absolutely boring. I only wear the avatar because that helmet is swag.

If I were to make any CHANGES I would make invisibility not work close range. Would prioritize his loadout on long-range weapons, give players second thoughts about spamming disarm and poking them in the butt with their Co.Le Daggers, and re-prioritize spacial awareness since you're not completely immune to aggro anymore.

Disarm is fine, but if any changes were to be made it would have to be either range, the way it's casted, or both to compensate for the invisiblity change. For infested....I dunno. Disables aura?

I would have decoy either do a radial stun after it's dispelled by attacking enemy forces or have it continuously draw aggro only losing their attention when it loses all it's health which continually regens drawing in different enemies for the duration of the cast.

Switch teleport maybe a 3 second invulnerability phase. Poor Loki is squishy after all. And if used on decoy would make it into a moving target. Something like what Equinox's augment does except it's not shooting back.

 

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

14 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Wow, this is starting to get old so ill pick and choose what I respond to now. 

LoR literally has nothing to do with dealing damage, thats why you dont see any damage frames in there besides Excal or Mirage, and they are only there for blinds. The fact that you even think you need damage in LoR is pretty ameteur of you to say the least. You are literally mad that Nova is more useful in a raid than a Mesa, seriously? 

Yes Mesa's Fov is affected by range mods, but her shooting range isnt and never has been. And yes waiting for your MP to affect a room is much more difficult than pressing 4 and holding lmb while spinning your camera around. (I just put my 4th forma on my Mesa so i have some recent experience with this) The change to make duration effect the channeling of PM isnt just for PM, its for all channeled abilities, do you understand the mechanics of the game? 

Synergy is something alotta frames dont have yet, so? Maybe Mesa will get some eventually, or maybe nova will get some? Who knows? Who cares? We are talking about the here and now. 

Volt's changes were controversial at best. Riot shield eats way too much energy to ever be viable, and his 4 is pretty unreliable CC when you actually start using it, especially against shielded enemies. (I even made a video about it too if you are interested) His shield was, and is still his bread and butter imo. More so now that it blocks explosives. 

I mean im gonna continue to assume you havent adapted as long as you keep complaining about them here. Hijacking a thread about Loki and complaining about some completely unrelated nerfs makes YOU look like a fool. That and the fact that you are literally advocating to bring back a literal aimbot. 

Im done with this you're clearly just going to keep agreeing with anything DE does. No Aimbot but moves that hit everything in the same radius all at the same time and going through walls are ok. Completely illogical. This game wont survive the next two years anyway. Goodbye, have fun wih your "low hp and armor that don't matter because im invisible anyway" OP frames.

 

[Cenat]

Simple reason RD is OP

 

-Melee enemies are slower than you can you can literally just camp where melee enemies can't reach. You can Bastille a defense objective and mothing can ever win. Even Globe depends on how much damage the enemy deals. 

The main point is-Melee enemies can not blindly hit you. Enemies under Chaos can AOE you. 

[Cenat]

7 hours ago, Arniox said:

it doesn't need to be tampered with. Idk why everyone looks at loki's disarm as being op it's hardly that. Without the augment it doesn't even cc. There is no cc without the augment, just a little de-buff to enemies, with the augment it's quite good but it's way less powerful than all other frames cc in the game and the rad proc doesn't last long. Having it be reduced by mods is also pretty bad idea since it's a base stat kinda like mesa's 4th being a static 50 meters. If loki's static 100% to disarm was changed by mods it would be impossible to mod well. Anyways, as I was saying, his cc is hardly op in anyway at high level.

Nyx is the most similar to loki and is more powerful, being like loki except without the need for an augment and now with her passive, she is like what you're saying with a chance to disarm and with loki's augment inbuilt.

Debuff? This literally makes every enemy render useless. They can't take cover. They can't kite. This makes all heavy untis literally useless. Maybe what would be fair is that heavies are given long range heavy weapons that causes knockdowns?

[(PSN)Ochikomu-]

Balanced? Hmm...make disarm based on strength. The amount of strength determines the amount of enemies are disarmed within rage of the ability. 

 

[Cenat]

1 minute ago, (PS4)black_viper21 said:

Balanced? Hmm...make disarm based on strength. The amount of strength determines the amount of enemies are disarmed within rage of the ability. 

 

Very very interesting idea! I will edit my post and add you in. Thank you. 

[(PSN)Ochikomu-]

3 minutes ago, Cenat said:

Very very interesting idea! I will edit my post and add you in. Thank you

 

Honestly, in my opinion, that's how RD should have been in the first place. 

[Cenat]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)black_viper21 said:

Honestly, in my opinion, that's how RD should have been in the first place. 

Yep

[armedpoop]

7 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Im done with this you're clearly just going to keep agreeing with anything DE does. No Aimbot but moves that hit everything in the same radius all at the same time and going through walls are ok. Completely illogical. This game wont survive the next two years anyway. Goodbye, have fun wih your "low hp and armor that don't matter because im invisible anyway" OP frames.

 

Ok, but I never said any of that, nor did I blindly agree with whatever DE did. You are confusing the arguments of others with what ive said. You shouldnt come into discussions with an emotional attitude like this, you need to learn how to be objective and if you are gonna talk about abilities, at least learn the mechanics for each of the ones in question. You have been wrong in your points here multiple times, even down to what abilities actually do. 

I will continue to have fun with the frames I enjoy using, and adapting if need be. If anything is gonna bring Warframe down, I can garantee you it wont be nerfs to the "press 4 to win" frames. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by armedpoop

[armedpoop]

4 hours ago, Cenat said:

Simple reason RD is OP

 

-Melee enemies are slower than you can you can literally just camp where melee enemies can't reach. You can Bastille a defense objective and mothing can ever win. Even Globe depends on how much damage the enemy deals. 

The main point is-Melee enemies can not blindly hit you. Enemies under Chaos can AOE you. 

So then explain to me why people still died in an eximus stronghold excavation sortie with a Disarm Loki AND a Frost as well as an Ash? 

Saying "nothing can ever win" is a bit of a stretch. Cause if thats the case, people would go much longer than 100 waves (highest ive ever heard) in defense with loki and Vauban alone, but that just isnt the case. 

[Cenat]

Just now, armedpoop said:

So then explain to me why people still died in an eximus stronghold excavation sortie with a Disarm Loki AND a Frost as well as an Ash? 

Saying "nothing can ever win" is a bit of a stretch. Cause if thats the case, people would go much longer than 100 waves (highest ive ever heard) in defense with loki and Vauban alone, but that just isnt the case. 

Well if you just stand in the middle of a crowd and let yourself get melee'd I can't help it

I am reffering to people who can play the game and not just people who spent plat to get Loki (prime). I am talking about people with the skills to move away from the enemy. So obviously you do not seem to be grtting my point. 

[Cenat]

2 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

So then explain to me why people still died in an eximus stronghold excavation sortie with a Disarm Loki AND a Frost as well as an Ash? 

Saying "nothing can ever win" is a bit of a stretch. Cause if thats the case, people would go much longer than 100 waves (highest ive ever heard) in defense with loki and Vauban alone, but that just isnt the case. 

Also yes, it is possible but you need an EV trin and a Inaros/Excal/Ivara (Ivara best since Sleep arrow is ranged) and all 4 should have a Covert Lethality dagger to go high wave defense. It is just that experienced players dont wish to waste their time doing useless stuff :/

[armedpoop]

3 minutes ago, Cenat said:

Well if you just stand in the middle of a crowd and let yourself get melee'd I can't help it

I am reffering to people who can play the game and not just people who spent plat to get Loki (prime). I am talking about people with the skills to move away from the enemy. So obviously you do not seem to be grtting my point. 

You really think thats why people go down in an eximus stronghold sortie excavation? Have you ever done one of those? Have you ever seen how much enemies only having melee matters when you are literally swarmed by multiple enemies that can knock you down and even pull you? I dont think you know how easy it is to die to something like this in high level content where you think loki is so strong. The fact that enemies have batons is sometime even worse than them having guns. They go from dealing lethal damage in a few shots to lethal damage in one hit. 

1 minute ago, Cenat said:

Also yes, it is possible but you need an EV trin and a Inaros/Excal/Ivara (Ivara best since Sleep arrow is ranged) and all 4 should have a Covert Lethality dagger to go high wave defense. It is just that experienced players dont wish to waste their time doing useless stuff :/

I never said it was impossible, I said why didnt people use Loki and Vauban to do it specifically, since you said that combo in and of itself is OP (which it isnt). Literally Disarm can work against Bastille for the fact the Bastille has an amount of enemies it can hold, and forcing everyone to melee will cause them to rush the obj en mass, and then they quickly pile on thru the Bastille. 

[armedpoop]

1 hour ago, (PS4)black_viper21 said:

Balanced? Hmm...make disarm based on strength. The amount of strength determines the amount of enemies are disarmed within rage of the ability. 

 

Yeah, screw over everyone's Loki builds by making literally only one ability scale off of strength, right? It wouldnt make any sense. 

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

4 minutes ago, Cenat said:

I am reffering to people who can play the game and not just people who spent plat to get Loki (prime). I am talking about people with the skills to move away from the enemy. So obviously you do not seem to be grtting my point. 

Well any frame can be OP when played by skilled players, so your argument is invalid.

5 minutes ago, Cenat said:

Also yes, it is possible but you need an EV trin and a Inaros/Excal/Ivara (Ivara best since Sleep arrow is ranged) and all 4 should have a Covert Lethality dagger to go high wave defense. It is just that experienced players dont wish to waste their time doing useless stuff :/

Again, its an invalid argument, were talking bout loki, especially the RD aug. And Youre bringing other frames here, any frame can be OP if theyre not alone.