Covert Lethality change.

[NightBlitz]

lets see...it only works on pone enemy at a time, try again after dmg 3.0 drops, right now there are bigger fish to fry

[Flirk2]

I will never understand the compelling desire of some people to stab or shoot their victims repeatedly. Finishers, head shots with a high damage weapon, single target warframe powers should kill with one shot.

The indignity of shooting a crewmen 3-4 times in the head with a Lex Prime, and having to reload the thing to kill a tech, that I endured in the yesterday's elemental enhancement excavation on sortie1 is never fun or entertaining to me.

[SicSlaver]

6 minutes ago, thalx said:

You forgot the latest gift of the lotus, enemies starting at level 9999.

Oh right, I was wondering if that actually happened. I forgot if that was real. Yeah, basically what I did was scavenge for containers and stall time over for the survival. It was fun. It felt like I was really trying to survive. Then I kind of realised the intent of the mission or any future challenge missions similar to that could be ruined with the use of Covert Lethality. As people suggested, I chose not to do it, but it still exists in this game.

I can understand people not wanting to deal with bullet sponges, but maybe tone it down a bit from instant kill?

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver

[Tymerc]

45 minutes ago, Prime said:

yeahno

How these posts don't generate spam-tier Warning Points I do not understand. 

Anyways I agree with you OP. It should be changed. It even allowed people to one hit kill enemies during that level 9999 alert awhile back. It's not balanced at all. 

[(PSN)KaMuS0413]

OMG guys is simple cover lethality help the dagger, any other game dagger have the same purpose.

and you cannot said is OP because first is not something that can be done with every frame or every abilities and also have to take into account the time it takes to kill one person is not really that fast.

Covert lethality help a purpose which is make dagger feasible to use if you nerf it then nobody would use dagger anymore, there status change and there crit are just or bad or regular. and that is fine because the gameplay of the dagger dont need high status or high crit because dagger  should be concentrated to finisher damage  because in that is what they are made for.

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by (PS4)KaMuS0413

[Etriia]

46 minutes ago, Prime said:

yeahno

10 minutes ago, Windspike said:

I vote a very resounding "no" to this suggestion.

36 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Considering BOTH effects of CL are what made Single daggers useful to beging with, I say No.

 

 

[SicSlaver]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)KaMuS0413 said:

OMG guys is simple cover lethality help the dagger, any other game dagger have the same purpose.

and you cannot said is OP because first is not something that can be done with every frame or every abilities and also have to take into account the time it takes to kill one person is not really that fast.

Covert lethality help a purpose which is make dagger feasible to use if you nerf it then nobody would use dagger anymore, there status change and there crit are just or bad or regular. and that is fine because the gameplay of the dagger dont need high status or high crit because dagger  should be concentrated to finisher damage  because in that is what they are made for.

 

So what happens if they introduce a dagger with really powerful stats in the future or are you saying that any future daggers released should have terrible stats to balance Covert Lethality?

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver

[Kxevineth]

5 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Oh, remember that Gift of the Lotus mission with enemies starting at level 100? They've done events like this in the past. I really don't think telling people to play solo is a reasonable solution in a game that requires co-op.

I remember that alert very well. It was ridiculous. What I would change, though, is alerts like that, not how the mod works.

I personally don't have a problem with your idea in general, more with the "so until they sort it out let's basically nerf it to the ground" part. I use Covert Lethality only in solo stealth missions, when killing isn't really my priority - in some Spy Sorites for example, when I would really want that leech eximus to go away quickly. If you asked "do you want to lose this tool because someone uses it in a way both you and I don't like" I wouldn't have to think even for a second to say "no". To be honest, beside that ridiculous alert you mentioned, I have yet to see someone actually using a dagger in any mission. It's just inefficient. The finisher animation takes a ton of time, making pretty much any warframe with some damage output faster at killing enemies with their regualr skills than with CL daggers. Even in the last sorties my Ash ult's faster than my Ivara would go through all those enemies one by one. I see the problem, but more in theory than in practice.

I'm a bit sorry to say that, but forcing a change in CL on everyone would do more harm to the whole community than one player occasionally forcing another to witness them using an arguably "broken" mechanic - even if the other player is you.

22 minutes ago, thalx said:

All daggers should have innate Covert Lethality.

Why would anybody use a dagger otherwise?

That is actually a pretty good idea, with some tweaks. I think they need to reinvent daggers - they have very short range and CL is basically the only reason to use them. At this point, unless you get spotted and need to kill something without the finisher (and that can easily be avoided), a R10 dagger with CL is basically as useful to me as a 8-formad one with catalyst - and something is definitely wrong with that.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

11 minutes ago, Tymerc said:

Anyways I agree with you OP. It should be changed. It even allowed people to one hit kill enemies during that level 9999 alert awhile back. It's not balanced at all. 

Please tell me you see the irony here.

 

(As an aside: yes, I know there was another way to defeat these enemies without using covert lethality, but that isn't really the issue here.)

[Dousiq]

People who clamor to get things nerfed should be forced to play with only things that have been nerfed because of forum whiners, for like a month.

 

Also, it's EXACTLY as easy to get 'stealth' kills with certain frames as it is to get 'finisher' kills with others. Ash, Loki, hell, any frame if you have that one Tenno ability that gives you invisibility for X seconds after getting a melee kill  (or was it a stealth kill, idk). There's no reason to gimp frames like Excalibur even further by removing their ability to make use of this utility, and it is utility, mod.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Dousiq
Wanted to expand on an argument

[Praxxor]

That mod is literally the only damn reason why you'd ever use the damn daggers, THAT change would make them useless again because stealth is completely broken

[Cephalon_Ordis]

i'm just wondering how many people would just outright abandon daggers again if this happened

[SicSlaver]

 

6 minutes ago, Kxevineus said:

I remember that alert very well. It was ridiculous. What I would change, though, is alerts like that, not how the mod works.

I personally don't have a problem with your idea in general, more with the "so until they sort it out let's basically nerf it to the ground" part. I use Covert Lethality only in solo stealth missions, when killing isn't really my priority - in some Spy Sorites for example, when I would really want that leech eximus to go away quickly. If you asked "do you want to lose this tool because someone uses it in a way both you and I don't like" I wouldn't have to think even for a second to say "no". To be honest, beside that ridiculous alert you mentioned, I have yet to see someone actually using a dagger in any mission. It's just inefficient. The finisher animation takes a ton of time, making pretty much any warframe with some damage output faster at killing enemies with their regualr skills than with CL daggers. Even in the last sorties my Ash ult's faster than my Ivara would go through all those enemies one by one. I see the problem, but more in theory than in practice.

I'm a bit sorry to say that, but forcing a change in CL on everyone would do more harm to the whole community than one player occasionally forcing another to witness them using an arguably "broken" mechanic - even if the other player is you.

That is actually a pretty good idea, with some tweaks. I think they need to reinvent daggers - they have very short range and CL is basically the only reason to use them. At this point, unless you get spotted and need to kill something without the finisher (and that can easily be avoided), a R10 dagger with CL is basically as useful to me as a 8-formad one with catalyst - and something is definitely wrong with that.

I'm not sure comparing it to Ash's ult is fair as that skill is extremely broken.

[SicSlaver]

6 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

That mod is literally the only damn reason why you'd ever use the damn daggers, THAT change would make them useless again because stealth is completely broken

It's like the initial change on this mod where people were unhappy about it and forget that the mod still gave it a significant 100 base damage increase. Would it really be completely useless if it did something else other than instant kill? Even just modest increased damage on finishers? I think you guys are exaggerating.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver

[Sovyul]

It's amazing how some people dislike our capability of killing level 80-100 enemies through a selected few methods. I will never really understand this. It's as if they like emptying 5 mags into an enemy or something, or use them as a sandbag.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Sovyul

[LABAL]

1 hour ago, SicSlaver said:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. It really and literally kills some of the challenge events that DE rolls out at times.

What challenge? Ahhh... You mean the one, where Covert Lethality is pretty much the only (aside from Pulling them into the corners and bottomless pits) way to kill enemies? Yes... Yes, that would be quite challenging without it. Quite challenging indeed. Oh, and while we're waiting for such a marvelous change, how about you doing a giveaway of your own Covert Lethality to a random stranger? No? I thought so.

Edited August 5, 2016 by LABAL

[SicSlaver]

4 minutes ago, Sovyul said:

It's amazing how some people dislike our capability of killing level 80-100 enemies through a selected few methods. I will never really understand this. It's as if they like emptying 5 mags into an enemy or something, or use them as a sandbag.

Why not just extract when enemies reach that level on endless missions then and you find bullet sponge enemies tiring to deal with? What so fun about instant kills and invulnerability frames for an hour?

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver

[SicSlaver]

2 minutes ago, LABAL said:

What challenge? Ahhh... You mean the one, where Covert Lethality is pretty much the only way to kill enemies? Yes... Yes, that would be quite challenging without it. Quite challenging indeed. Oh, and while we're waiting for such a marvelous change, how about you doing a giveaway of your own Covert Lethality to a random stranger? No? I thought so.

The challenge where you try to survive without killing the enemies and actually try to find another way....

[Dousiq]

Just now, SicSlaver said:

Why not just extract when enemies reach that level on endless missions then? What so fun about instant kills?

Why not just close the game the first time enemies manage to break your shields?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sovyul]

2 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Why not just extract when enemies reach that level on endless missions then? What so fun about instant kills?

Ever heard of Sorties? It's a pain in the &#! to deal with it as it is already, not to mention boring.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Sovyul

[Praxxor]

7 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

It's like the initial change on this mod where people were unhappy about it and forget that the mod still gave it a significant 100 base damage increase. Would it really be completely useless if it did something else other than instant kill? Even just modest increased damage on finishers? I think you guys are exaggerating.

And no one would still use it because a crit weapon with naramon would deal more damage with longer invisibility, longer range, and it's not really hard to build one. Oh more speed too, Berserker is a thing that none of the daggers can use properly.

[SicSlaver]

1 minute ago, Sovyul said:

Ever heard of Sorties? It's a pain in the &#! to deal with as it is already, not to mention boring.

Then you should follow Dousiq's advice.

 

1 minute ago, Dousiq said:

Why not just close the game the first time enemies manage to break your shields?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[LABAL]

3 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

The challenge where you try to survive without killing the enemies and actually try to find another way....

You mean, just using Ivara? As in "ONLY Ivara"? Oh, wonderful! How didn't I think of that?

Or did you literally mean "another way" as in "just exit the mission".

Edited August 5, 2016 by LABAL

[SicSlaver]

1 minute ago, Praxxor said:

And no one would still use it because a crit weapon with naramon would deal more damage with longer invisibility, longer range, and it's not really hard to build one. Oh more speed too, Berserker is a thing that none of the daggers can use properly.

Ah, I forget that not everyone has Primed Fury, yet. Sorry, for my clumsiness.

[SicSlaver]

3 minutes ago, LABAL said:

You mean, just using Ivara? As in "ONLY IVARA"? Oh, wonderful! How didn't I think of that?

Huh? I forgot what I used, but it wasn't Ivara. The randoms I joined used them, but I just ran away from them. Was it near Vauban Prime's release? I might have been using Vauban Prime.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver