Covert Lethality change.

[EinheriarJudith]

daggers are not supposed to have the same damage potential of a sword, polearm, greatsword, battleaxe, great mace, or even whips. though i would love to see a dagger whip ~_^, so expecting on par damage numbers for them is absurd. the scaling in the game needs a severe revamp.

Edited August 5, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Lol no. Covert Lethality is the one piece of cheese I'm okay with, because it requires actual input other than just running through a level or blind firing. Also, last I checked a dagger/ knife through the head or a slit throat is a good way to kill a humanoid target pretty fast

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Lol no. Covert Lethality is the one piece of cheese I'm okay with, because it requires actual input other than just running through a level or blind firing. Also, last I checked a dagger/ knife through the head or a slit throat is a good way to kill a humanoid target pretty fast

one step closer to stealth. now we need to have stealth that works.

[SicSlaver]

1 minute ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Lol no. Covert Lethality is the one piece of cheese I'm okay with, because it requires actual input other than just running through a level or blind firing. Also, last I checked a dagger/ knife through the head or a slit throat is a good way to kill a humanoid target pretty fast

Well, anything that does that kills anything fast....

[Keiiken]

Considering you have to use abilities that open up for finishers then suffer through the finisher animation I see no problem with it. Its not like you are wiping out entire rooms with it.
Even in the most recent high challenge mission with a team of four Inaros you still had to work to complete, it was far from effortless.

[ShadowSquid96]

So, I'll come out and say this now, as many other have touched upon it in this thread and in the past:

For the time being, we should cease (or at least tone down) all discussions about nerfing/buffing mods/weapons/abilities until the fabled damage 3.0 comes out. For all we know, the entire mod system will be trashed and replaced with something new with some sort of compensation, and if not, mods and weapon damage values will without a doubt have major noticeable differences, no matter the damage values they have right now. Why spend the effort arguing over "flaws" and "overpowered features" in a system that is most definitely going to change in the "possibly" near future?

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, Keiiken said:

Considering you have to use abilities that open up for finishers then suffer through the finisher animation I see no problem with it. Its not like you are wiping out entire rooms with it.
Even in the most recent high challenge mission with a team of four Inaros you still had to work to complete, it was far from effortless.

we need finisher connect animations but i believe we would be stepping into ashs territory =(. ill take 5m inbetween each target though hehehe.

Edited August 5, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, ShadowSquid96 said:

So, I'll come out and say this now, as many other have touched upon it in this thread and in the past:

For the time being, we should cease (or at least tone down) all discussions about nerfing/buffing mods/weapons/abilities until the fabled damage 3.0 comes out. For all we know, the entire mod system will be trashed and replaced with something new with some sort of compensation, and if not, mods and weapon damage values will without a doubt have major noticeable differences, no matter the damage values they have right now. Why spend the effort arguing over "flaws" and "overpowered features" in a system that is most definitely going to change in the "possibly" near future?

Because this is the internet.

 

[SicSlaver]

Just now, Keiiken said:

Considering you have to use abilities that open up for finishers then suffer through the finisher animation I see no problem with it. Its not like you are wiping out entire rooms with it.
Even in the most recent high challenge mission with a team of four Inaros you still had to work to complete, it was far from effortless.

Yeah, I realised I made an error now. I misunderstood a challenge mission we had. But, this mod is still a worrying prospect for the future in any case.

[SicSlaver]

3 minutes ago, ShadowSquid96 said:

So, I'll come out and say this now, as many other have touched upon it in this thread and in the past:

For the time being, we should cease (or at least tone down) all discussions about nerfing/buffing mods/weapons/abilities until the fabled damage 3.0 comes out. For all we know, the entire mod system will be trashed and replaced with something new with some sort of compensation, and if not, mods and weapon damage values will without a doubt have major noticeable differences, no matter the damage values they have right now. Why spend the effort arguing over "flaws" and "overpowered features" in a system that is most definitely going to change in the "possibly" near future?

Oh, I was bored. I was doing this out of interest. I don't even know if the damage 3.0 is actually in the works or not.

[Tsukinoki]

8 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

If there is any other way to kill level 9999 enemy I don't know about it.

I used a Mag with Magnetize.
Because while the enemies couldn't hurt us, they could definitely still add lots of damage to a magnetize bubble.
And with enough ammo fired into a maximum duration magnetize bubble with a few stacked basically right on top of each other the ticks would seriously hurt the corpus and keep them immobilized and the explosions could finish them off.

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

2 hours ago, SicSlaver said:

Until DE can distinguish the difference between Finishers done through unalerted stealth means and due to abilities opening enemies up to Finishers, I'm suggesting a change to Covert Lethality. As it is now, it can be used to cheese enemies into instant death and gets rid of some of the challenge. Instead of instant kill on Finishers, how about giving the user 5 seconds or less invisibility at max rank?

How about not use the mod if it kills the challenge for you seriously this is like the only community that has this issue of simply not using the mod when it comes to making things a "challenge".

[SicSlaver]

Just now, (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000 said:

How about not use the mod if it kills the challenge for you seriously this is like the only community that has this issue of simply not using the mod when it comes to making things a "challenge".

It's because it's not a single player game....

[SicSlaver]

1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said:

I used a Mag with Magnetize.
Because while the enemies couldn't hurt us, they could definitely still add lots of damage to a magnetize bubble.
And with enough ammo fired into a maximum duration magnetize bubble with a few stacked basically right on top of each other the ticks would seriously hurt the corpus and keep them immobilized and the explosions could finish them off.

I wonder if that Lanka and Magnetize thing still works.

[Viegraf]

From what I've been seeing, everybody is arguing about our "endgame", which is sorties and post-DEAC (DE approved content). For whatever reason, DE doesn't seem to want endless missions to be ACTUALLY endless, so the enemy scaling becomes a forcing function. "Ok, that's enough, go extract now please." (personally, I think it's for economy control) People get mad at this, so DE makes bandaids like CL.

CL as it stands is a pretty nice tool to have, if a bit specific. If we REALLY want it nerfed, the best way I can think of is to change it from Instant kill on stealth/stun finishers to max health damage as bonus damage. 100% for stealth finishers (actual stealth, affinity multiplier and all), 66% for stun finishers (teleport, pocketsand, RB), 33% for ground finishers. Still useful at all levels of play but still adds "work" for people who aren't a fan of the cheese. Instant kills wont be possible in survival/defense without further modifiers.

 

Seems though, that the main takeaway from this thread is that we don't like having enemy scaling being used as a forcing function to make us leave endless missions.

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

1 minute ago, SicSlaver said:

It's because it's not a single player game....

So let me get this straight you have a problem with how others enjoy the game or what mod they use? You might want to take a break if that is the case.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

9 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Well, anything that does that kills anything fast....

I still don't understand why DE made it so every weapon class has a different amount of finisher damage. Have you seen those animations? If anything, all finishers should have consistent finisher damage

[Tsukinoki]

Just now, SicSlaver said:

I wonder if that Lanka and Magnetize thing still works.

They largely fixed that.
Before what was happening was the bullet was hitting enemies over and over again (a stack of enemies could lead to thousands of hits) which for a sniper rifle buffed its damage to insane levels as each hit added to its 'combo' multiplier that they have.
Now the combo counter only goes up by 1 for each unique enemy hit by a sniper round.  For instance if 5 enemies are in a magnetize bubble and you fire the Lanka into it you'll only get 5 hits on your combo multiplier instead of thousands.

As for the main topic:
I don't see the problem with CL because it only works on one enemy at a time, and locks you into a slow finisher animation.
If CL allowed people to hit 4 or 5 enemies at hte same time and instantly kill all of them then I might start to think that its OP.
But locking a frame into a finisher animation that takes a few seconds and only allowing it to work on one enemy at a time keeps it from being OP.

[Drakenreiter]

No, the mod is fine as it is. It gives single daggers their own purpose and place.

[SicSlaver]

4 minutes ago, Viegraf said:

From what I've been seeing, everybody is arguing about our "endgame", which is sorties and post-DEAC (DE approved content). For whatever reason, DE doesn't seem to want endless missions to be ACTUALLY endless, so the enemy scaling becomes a forcing function. "Ok, that's enough, go extract now please." (personally, I think it's for economy control) People get mad at this, so DE makes bandaids like CL.

CL as it stands is a pretty nice tool to have, if a bit specific. If we REALLY want it nerfed, the best way I can think of is to change it from Instant kill on stealth/stun finishers to max health damage as bonus damage. 100% for stealth finishers (actual stealth, affinity multiplier and all), 66% for stun finishers (teleport, pocketsand, RB), 33% for ground finishers. Still useful at all levels of play but still adds "work" for people who aren't a fan of the cheese. Instant kills wont be possible in survival/defense without further modifiers.

 

Seems though, that the main takeaway from this thread is that we don't like having enemy scaling being used as a forcing function to make us leave endless missions.

Yeah, I kind of don't understand this. I know the scaling is there to drive you out and once the scaling becomes unfun for me, I'd prefer to just extract. I don't have any real issue with this, but many others do. Your last point is really on point. I understand that the scaling is used to ramp up the difficulty to the point where you would rather extract, but I think people just find the scaling difficulty artificial and unfair and therefore unsatisfactory.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver

[SicSlaver]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000 said:

So let me get this straight you have a problem with how others enjoy the game or what mod they use? You might want to take a break if that is the case.

No...I have an issue with the balance of the game....

[shyguyk]

3 minutes ago, Drakenreiter said:

No, the mod is fine as it is. It gives single daggers their own purpose and place.

One that should exist without needing a instakill bandaid.

[SicSlaver]

4 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

I still don't understand why DE made it so every weapon class has a different amount of finisher damage. Have you seen those animations? If anything, all finishers should have consistent finisher damage

Are claw weapon finishers still insanely slow? That animation they used is ridiculous!

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

2 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

No...I have an issue with the balance of the game....

That isn't true as i have just read your past comments 

 

2 hours ago, SicSlaver said:

Oh right, I was wondering if that actually happened. I forgot if that was real. Yeah, basically what I did was scavenge for containers and stall time over for the survival. It was fun. It felt like I was really trying to survive. Then I kind of realised the intent of the mission or any future challenge missions similar to that could be ruined with the use of Covert Lethality. As people suggested, I chose not to do it, but it still exists in this game.

I can understand people not wanting to deal with bullet sponges, but maybe tone it down a bit from instant kill?

This comment alone proves you have a problem with how others play the game and if you truly care about balancing issues in the game stop trying to nerf because of how others play the game and instead try to balance the enemies first seriously nerf doesn't always=balance in fact in this game it's the exact opposite.

[Viegraf]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000 said:

try to balance the enemies first

I'm willing to bet that enemies are balanced around the players' toolsets. *coughnullifierscough* If that's the case we can't nerf enemies without nerfing players first. I remember seeing a thread a while back arguing that "Players are OP", and that is why enemies are OP.

Edit: link found 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Viegraf
found link I was looking for