Equinox - Night and Day: A (badly needed) Rework

[BlackCoMerc]

Ok, first: except, impassioned feedback from someone who, I can tell, plays Equinox far more than I do. Thanks for that.

On damage buffs: I wanted to avoid powers that increase weapon damage, as foresight toward Damage 3.0. It was my concern that weapons and enemy health will be squashed and we won't need damage buff powers.

About Night Form: I envisioned most Night players as solo Stealth types. Hence, energy Regen. And AoE Sleep.

I think I would ditch the energy Regen, though. With Mend/Maim active it won't work anyway.

About the numbers: Like 7 seconds on an augment, or 2.5 health/energy. Those need an increase. Numbers are placeholders pending balance testing, nothing more. Same for Pacify and cost.

About Day: Provoke is another matter of avoiding damage buffs. Future proofing. 

Mend/Maim: Adding to their pool through other abilities would require the Ultimate to be active. I should have clarified that.

Likewise, Mend is channel what you need, and conserve what you don't.

Maim is use it and Lise it, like now. When you blow up, you don't get to conserve.

Would love to see your suggested rework.

 

 

 

[Dualstar]

22 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Equinox is about to be Obsoleted. Once Nyx gets her new Augment, to allow movement with Absorb active...well, exploding to release lots of damage was the one thing Equinox did.

Youre aware that Absorb has additional energy drain while absorbing damage?

And that Maim biulds up damage in a completely different way to Absorb?

And that Equinox can do so much more than spam Maim?

[Eldritchsqueaker]

I always saw night form as the defensive support/CC side of things and day form was the offensive glass cannon/nuker side even if it didn't quite pull it off. 

5 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Ok, first: except, impassioned feedback from someone who, I can tell, plays Equinox far more than I do. Thanks for that.

On damage buffs: I wanted to avoid powers that increase weapon damage, as foresight toward Damage 3.0. It was my concern that weapons and enemy health will be squashed and we won't need damage buff powers.

About Night Form: I envisioned most Night players as solo Stealth types. Hence, energy Regen. And AoE Sleep.

I think I would ditch the energy Regen, though. With Mend/Maim active it won't work anyway.

About the numbers: Like 7 seconds on an augment, or 2.5 health/energy. Those need an increase. Numbers are placeholders pending balance testing, nothing more. Same for Pacify and cost.

About Day: Provoke is another matter of avoiding damage buffs. Future proofing. 

Mend/Maim: Adding to their pool through other abilities would require the Ultimate to be active. I should have clarified that.

Likewise, Mend is channel what you need, and conserve what you don't.

Maim is use it and Lise it, like now. When you blow up, you don't get to conserve.

Would love to see your suggested rework.

 

 

 

 

[Dualstar]

1 minute ago, Eldritchkitty said:

and day form was the offensive glass cannon/nuker side even if it didn't quite pull it off. 

This is my big gripe with Equinox.

I simply think Rage should function as a buff for allies instead, giving the increased damage and move speed that Day form gets when shifting from Night form.

[tnccs215]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Ok, first: except, impassioned feedback from someone who, I can tell, plays Equinox far more than I do. Thanks for that.

On damage buffs: I wanted to avoid powers that increase weapon damage, as foresight toward Damage 3.0. It was my concern that weapons and enemy health will be squashed and we won't need damage buff powers.

About Night Form: I envisioned most Night players as solo Stealth types. Hence, energy Regen. And AoE Sleep.

I think I would ditch the energy Regen, though. With Mend/Maim active it won't work anyway.

About the numbers: Like 7 seconds on an augment, or 2.5 health/energy. Those need an increase. Numbers are placeholders pending balance testing, nothing more. Same for Pacify and cost.

About Day: Provoke is another matter of avoiding damage buffs. Future proofing. 

Mend/Maim: Adding to their pool through other abilities would require the Ultimate to be active. I should have clarified that.

Likewise, Mend is channel what you need, and conserve what you don't.

Maim is use it and Lise it, like now. When you blow up, you don't get to conserve.

Would love to see your suggested rework.

Well... first of all, I advise you to either think more about the numbers, or to substitute them by variables (X, Y, Z, ...), otherwise you will induce people in error.

I understand you wanting to avoid that, however I don't believe we should take guesses into account: we know nothing about damage 3.0. I think that, for the moment, take everything with a grain of salt. Also, I doubt weapon buffs will become obsolete. they are as good as any power.

The thing with Night form is that she really isn't stealth based. Yes, she can have a stealth factor, but solely because sleep is sleep. You are forgetting about the rest of her kit, that is defense and regeneration oriented, not stealth. Don't alter the identity of a frame in favor of only on facet-- specially when Rest's hegemony is nothing but a freakish band-aid fix.

Regarding Mend and Maim... Mend needs more work than that, I think. Honestly, I liked the augment, but it is just augment material. And Maim... if you like it as it is, leave it as it is. Simple as that.

I'm currently spreading my ideas for a rework along some threads. This one, @Antiphoton's, and Archwizard's. I don't know whether I will make a thread of my own or not, we'll see. 

[tnccs215]

10 minutes ago, Dualstar said:

Youre aware that Absorb has additional energy drain while absorbing damage?

And that Maim biulds up damage in a completely different way to Absorb?

And that Equinox can do so much more than spam Maim?

We are waaaaay past that kiddo. I advise you to read everything, it is important. 

Also, the idea of Rage being an Allied buff is not bad at all.

[BlackCoMerc]

Ok. Made some minor changes.

I believe that in all fairness my Night side has ample abilities to contribute to a team. Slowing enemies, reduction in their damage. Healing. AoE (now reduced) Sleep. Even a defensive dome with an Augment.

Likewise, Day buffs power strength for a party, can set up enemies in a small area for additional damage and offer a nuke when needed.

Please take a look. Thanks.

[Mr.Holyroller]

I think equinox is one of the best frames in the game and im worried about them nerfing her. She has one of the best CC in the game with rest and it's augment. And because maim is a percentage of enemy health, it basically infinitely scales as long as you have full armor reduction on enemies. Nyx has been obsolete since radial disarm came out so I doubt nyx will pose any threat to the viability of equinox

[tnccs215]

23 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I think equinox is one of the best frames in the game and im worried about them nerfing her. She has one of the best CC in the game with rest and it's augment. And because maim is a percentage of enemy health, it basically infinitely scales as long as you have full armor reduction on enemies. Nyx has been obsolete since radial disarm came out so I doubt nyx will pose any threat to the viability of equinox

Have you noticed how half her kit is borderline useless, the other is cheesy, and how she lacks any form of fluidity in Aspect changing?

Have you read the answers to this thread?

 

[Mr.Holyroller]

4 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Have you noticed how half her kit is borderline useless, the other is cheesy, and how she lacks any form of fluidity in Aspect changing?

Have you read the answers to this thread?

 

I haven't, but i've played equinox a lot and i dont think any of her kit is useless

[tnccs215]

23 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Ok. Made some minor changes.

I believe that in all fairness my Night side has ample abilities to contribute to a team. Slowing enemies, reduction in their damage. Healing. AoE (now reduced) Sleep. Even a defensive dome with an Augment.

Likewise, Day buffs power strength for a party, can set up enemies in a small area for additional damage and offer a nuke when needed.

Please take a look. Thanks.

Well, I still think the normal Rest&Rage mechanic is better than your proposed change.

Your Pacify, as before, would still be an enormous cheese factor, but the range Nerf you've given it will still make it useless.

Energy drain is still way too big,

Honestly, I still don't think your rework is good. Sorry.

Also, I'm gonna repeat it: If your numbers are placeholders: 1)State that in the OP, 2)Put numbers that equate to the ones you expect to see, and 3)replace them if you people tell you they've been misguided.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I haven't, but i've played equinox a lot and i dont think any of her kit is useless

You might want to explain how then because I'm not seeing it.

[Mr.Holyroller]

8 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

You might want to explain how then because I'm not seeing it.

Rest: Sleeps everything, spreads with augment, opens up enemies to covert lethality finishers

Rage: Great for using right before releasing Maim

Pacify: Only one that could use some rework (energy drain is too high to me)

Provoke:  Gives more ability damage. Who doesn't love more damage? (I think it's fine right where its at. I dont think she should be able to buff like rhino, and also be able to provide massive AoE CC or Nuke Damage)

Mend: Turn it on and kill one or two things for full heal. (which is better than oberon is currently doing)

Maim: Infinitely scales because damage from maim is based off percentage of enemy health. So as long as you have full armor reduction on your team it always performs incredibly well. Also stuns enemies temporarily when they enter its radius (also not affected by power strength).

Edited August 8, 2016 by Mr.Holyroller

[Eldritchsqueaker]

That doesn't really address her practical lack of a 1, the fact that provoke while it does give more power strength.. poofs if you ever want to switch and all the progress you spent scaling it up is lost. How Rage can make encounters harder with the damage and speed boost it gives enemies, the fact that mend doesn't work properly as a practical heal despite being in her /ult/ slot. I just want more fluidity, make her forms more different from eachother and giving each more viability.

[tnccs215]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Rest: Sleeps everything, spreads with augment, opens up enemies to covert lethality finishers

Pacify: Only one that could use some rework (energy drain is too high to me)

Provoke:  Gives more ability damage. Who doesn't love more damage? (I think it's fine right where its at. I dont think she should be able to buff like rhino, and also be able to provide massive AoE CC or Nuke Damage)

Mend: Turn it on and kill one or two things for full heal. (which is better than oberon is currently doing)

Maim: Infinitely scales because damage from maim is based off percentage of enemy health. So as long as you have full armor reduction on your team it always performs incredibly well. Also stuns enemies temporarily when they enter its radius (also not affected by power strength).

Rest: Not only is it a lazy, cheesy ability, it also equates to literally a forth of a power of another frame.

Rage: Not if those sped up bombard rockets kill you first

Pacify: The only noticeable effect it has is an empty energy gauge

Provoke: Only relevant to teammates, and actually yes, she should be able to buff like Rhino. Read my first wall of text to know why. Short answer: If each aspect is half a frame, better to simply use an actual Jack frame, because it will also be a frame with half defensive kit and half offensive kit, while not having to change aspect every time. Ironically, Rhino is a good alternative: Does everything Equinox does better-- except for Mend but, hell, no one uses that. Better stick to life strike

Mend: As said before: Better off with life strike

Maim: Good at higher levels, World of Fire syndrome at lower. Could use a Nerf to the initial damage to prevent this cheese

Dynamism: Absent. Changing aspect, specially with the only augment that makes her whole kit vaguely worthwhile, is actively discouraged by having powers that deactivate on transformation, and that require build ups. It's impossible to quickly and effectively jump between tasks-- when other jack frames can do it all at the same time. Would be a vaguely fair trade off if her abilities were worth anything beyond cheese... They aren't.

 

 

But above all, a question: Would you use Equinox if Rest and Maim got nerfed?

[Mr.Holyroller]

3 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Rest: Not only is it a lazy, cheesy ability, it also equates to literally a forth of a power of another frame.

Rage: Not if those sped up bombard rockets kill you first

Pacify: The only noticeable effect it has is an empty energy gauge

Provoke: Only relevant to teammates, and actually yes, she should be able to buff like Rhino. Read my first wall of text to know why. Short answer: If each aspect is half a frame, better to simply use an actual Jack frame, because it will also be a frame with half defensive kit and half offensive kit, while not having to change aspect every time. Ironically, Rhino is a good alternative: Does everything Equinox does better-- except for Mend but, hell, no one uses that. Better stick to life strike

Mend: As said before: Better off with life strike

Maim: Good at higher levels, World of Fire syndrome at lower. Could use a Nerf to the initial damage to prevent this cheese

Dynamism: Absent. Changing aspect, specially with the only augment that makes her whole kit vaguely worthwhile, is actively discouraged by having powers that deactivate on transformation, and that require build ups. It's impossible to quickly and effectively jump between tasks-- when other jack frames can do it all at the same time. Would be a vaguely fair trade off if her abilities were worth anything beyond cheese... They aren't.

 

 

But above all, a question: Would you use Equinox if Rest and Maim got nerfed?

 You could ask "Would you use _____ if  ___ and ___ got nerfed" on every frame, and it'd pretty much make all of them useless. You've pretty much disregarded everyone's comment on this post, quoting people and saying the same thing over and over again to try and superimpose your original comment through the post. Which is a disgusting display of self-entitlement. Could ya tone it down a bit?

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

 You could ask "Would you use _____ if  ___ and ___ got nerfed" on every frame, and it'd pretty much make all of them useless.

That's not true. Take off a power of a well made frame, and it will become subpar. Take off one power of a p_2w frame, and it will become useless.

Take Mesa, for example.  Take away Peacemaker and she'll loose a lot of offensive power, but she'll still be very capable at long range tanking and short range CC, with a soft touch of single shot buffing and single teammate support. Not great, still good. Take away Shatter Shield, and she'll loose quite the survivability, but she's still gonna have  a ton of offensive power, quite good short range CC, and good enough support. You get the idea. 

Same happens with Rhino, same happens with frost, same happens with Ivara, same happens with Inaros, etc etc etc.

Take away Maim and Day form is irrelevant outside of non-optimized defense meta builds. Take away Rest and Night form is irrelevant. Take away both, and Equinox is irrelevant.

1 hour ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

 You could ask "Would you use _____ if  ___ and ___ got nerfed" on every frame, and it'd pretty much make all of them useless. You've pretty much disregarded everyone's comment on this post, quoting people and saying the same thing over and over again to try and superimpose your original comment through the post.

Have you noticed how the comments that I asnwer by repeating myself are all the same? "Equinox is fine because of Maim and Rest. Equinox is fine because she has too forms!" 

How can you expect me not to repeat myself if the same comments keep appearing, over and over again? That was why I asked if you had already read the rest of the post: because your comment had already been said multiple times.

I'm not superimposing anything: if the comment is the same, so is the answer. 

1 hour ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

 Which is a disgusting display of self-entitlement. Could ya tone it down a bit?

 So is commenting on something without bothering to read it. I swear I'd love to tone it down. But I've read the same you said over and over and over and over again from so many people it's hard not to roll my eyes and answer in a toxic manner. I shouldn't do it, it's true, but it doesn't stop being extremely annoying.

Specially someone who comes here and says the same that has already been said has the nerve to tell me I'm repeating myself.

Edited August 8, 2016 by tnccs215

[Xekrin]

On 8/6/2016 at 2:11 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Survivors suffer 5 seconds of Radiation damage, with a 50℅ proc chance.

I like pretty much all of it without qualms except this.  Why must radiation be so overused and desired everywhere?  No one has the radiation niche anymore.

Radiation and blinding is everywhere. Gun jamming, that's a cool mechanic that is underused.  How about we spread that around a bit more?

Other than that I'm all for more synergy, although I don't mind our current rage.  I know people get iffy about supercharging the enemy but its a price to pay for extra damage dealt that I enjoy.

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, Xekrin said:

I like pretty much all of it without qualms except this.  Why must radiation be so overused and desired everywhere?  No one has the radiation niche anymore.

Radiation and blinding is everywhere. Gun jamming, that's a cool mechanic that is underused.  How about we spread that around a bit more?

Other than that I'm all for more synergy, although I don't mind our current rage.  I know people get iffy about supercharging the enemy but its a price to pay for extra damage dealt that I enjoy.

Fair enough and appreciated. Let me work a bit on it...

[(PSN)alphacreed15]

i love this. i was trying to make equinox my main but she felt a bit boring. but with this shes amazing i will definitely use her everyday with the changes you made. i love this thank you i hope de sees this. plzz God let them look at this and change her to this exact forum PPPPPPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZ GGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOD  

[BlackCoMerc]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)alphacreed15 said:

i love this. i was trying to make equinox my main but she felt a bit boring. but with this shes amazing i will definitely use her everyday with the changes you made. i love this thank you i hope de sees this. plzz God let them look at this and change her to this exact forum PPPPPPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZ GGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOD  

Hehe, thanks for the feedback. I wanted to truly make a night and day frame. One that plays differently depending on which you choose to run with. In my mind Night was more of a stealthy, crowd controlling frame. Meanwhile Day was an aggressive damage dealer. 

And yet...night wouldnt exist without day. So I wanted each form to support the other a bit as well. Or at least compliment the other. 

Thanks for chiming in.

[(PSN)alphacreed15]

Yes thanks i love this plllz keep going at this this is amazing i love this and if this changes were emitted i would hop right onto equinox everyday 

[(PSN)BossNotACapo]

Equinox is my favorite frame. I love Limbo also. Anyway my thoughts are. The passive should be upped to 15 per orb. Stacks with equilibrium. The buffs when switching forms shouldn't decay. Pacify/Provoke and Mend/Maim should transfer when switching forms. Pacify should be a flat damage reduction instead of based on range and a fixed drain not based on enemy. Affected by efficiency and duration mods. Provoke is fine. Rest range needs to be buffed. Rage should be changed to Equinox enrages herself and allies dealing additional 20-30-40-50% damage and increasing movement and melee attack speed 5-10-15-20% for the duration. Affected by power strength and range mods. Maim is fine. Mend should have half damage dealt as heal over time and the rest stored as burst heal with over shields. Night Equinox also emits puncture aura when running mend. She's golden both halves viable.