Jump to content
Koumei & the Five Fates: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Umbra Warframes (Discussion Thread)

(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

By (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako,
in General Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

(PSN)LenKun98

(PSN)LenKun98

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Toppien said:

the last big reveal on pax its screaming at my ear that theres going to be an umbra faction, those guards at the end , and all that red/black...the edge is real.

 

Yup that trailer at the end totally screams umbra related to me in some way, that may have the been the SOON we've been waiting for, especially with "The War Within." Also, that child may be the Stalker's operator then.

Edited by (PS4)LenKun98
Link to comment
Share on other sites
KvngJ

KvngJ

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, (PS4)LenKun98 said:

Yup that trailer at the end totally screams umbra related to me in some way, that may have the been the SOON we've been waiting for, especially with "The War Within." Also, that child may be the Stalker's operator then.

Stalkers operator would be awesome..but if I'm seeing right , those look to be the twin queens..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KvngJ

KvngJ

Posted
Posted
Just now, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

yea thats my thought.

but a war within means a internal struggle, will we be battling for another factions internal war, or our own? 

also ....SUPERWEAPONS ! :D 

Someone said they believe we're freeing the queens as she said " an answer to our prayers" but idk..freeing them from what? And why? To help with the sentients maybe? And although it seems to be twin queens , they don't seem very " twin like " to me..one young and small while the other looks more grown up and even sounds more like an elderly

Link to comment
Share on other sites
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 minutes ago, KvngJ said:

Someone said they believe we're freeing the queens as she said " an answer to our prayers" but idk..freeing them from what? And why? To help with the sentients maybe? And although it seems to be twin queens , they don't seem very " twin like " to me..one young and small while the other looks more grown up and even sounds more like an elderly

grineer clone theory: they could literally be clones (old and new) of the same person 

the prayers could be to save them from the "clone decay sickness" 

possibly we journey in search of it 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
(PSN)LenKun98

(PSN)LenKun98

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, (PS4)ethandismembered said:

If the War Within quest isn't for the introduction of Umbras I'll be bummed. The only thing I really want to know is are the umbra frames going to have different abilities or the same ones as their normal frames. Secondly I wonder if there will be Umbra Primes as well.

Umbras and Primes would be two different things, so no Umbra Primes, and it would be even cooler if those superweapons were some special ability for Umbra's

 

1 hour ago, KvngJ said:

Someone said they believe we're freeing the queens as she said " an answer to our prayers" but idk..freeing them from what? And why? To help with the sentients maybe? And although it seems to be twin queens , they don't seem very " twin like " to me..one young and small while the other looks more grown up and even sounds more like an elderly

Ya, I thought the codex entries implied that the Twin Queens were actually Orokin and Identical Twins, and that they joined the Grineer because the Orokin viewed them as impure and shunned them from society, so I'm not sure how they would be connected to the Stalker as that is what the quest seems to be about

Edited by (PS4)LenKun98
Link to comment
Share on other sites
(XBOX)ToothlessApollo

(XBOX)ToothlessApollo

Posted
Posted

 

16 hours ago, KvngJ said:

Stalkers operator would be awesome..but if I'm seeing right , those look to be the twin queens..

if that's the Stalker's operator, then that boss fight would be the perfect opportunity to receive parts for the Stalker frame. I'd love to have his frame in its original form, being able to dispel such enemies as nullifyers and Eximus units would be a valuable asset to have in the battlefield. He'd be a very good support frame in those regards. Also having slashdash, teleport and chaos would be awesome to have at once .

Link to comment
Share on other sites
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 hours ago, (XB1)ToothlessApollo said:

 

if that's the Stalker's operator, then that boss fight would be the perfect opportunity to receive parts for the Stalker frame. I'd love to have his frame in its original form, being able to dispel such enemies as nullifyers and Eximus units would be a valuable asset to have in the battlefield. He'd be a very good support frame in those regards. Also having slashdash, teleport and chaos would be awesome to have at once .

a fight to awaken the stalkers operator would be cool 

i have a feeling the twin queens are either

  1. clones of same person at different ages 
  2. fraternal twins at different stages of the decay? 

those guard units were interesting though very big and ...heavy? 

plus the new sentients that bring in the .... arm infused weapon.....can bring in more dynamics  

there is definitely a lot going on with this and U19/starchart 

the De already hinted in a twitter? a while back that the next quest would involve the queens , so im thinking thats more to the truth 

another thought with this makes me think umbras may pop up in a way we wont expect ... time travel, parallel reality, anything is on the table in that thought , like the second dream we will be sucker punched in a unexpected way 

another thing ive been watching a new anime that makes me think on the cocnept of umbra and warframes in general 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
(PSN)LenKun98

(PSN)LenKun98

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

a fight to awaken the stalkers operator would be cool 

i have a feeling the twin queens are either

  1. clones of same person at different ages 
  2. fraternal twins at different stages of the decay? 

those guard units were interesting though very big and ...heavy? 

plus the new sentients that bring in the .... arm infused weapon.....can bring in more dynamics  

there is definitely a lot going on with this and U19/starchart 

the De already hinted in a twitter? a while back that the next quest would involve the queens , so im thinking thats more to the truth 

another thought with this makes me think umbras may pop up in a way we wont expect ... time travel, parallel reality, anything is on the table in that thought , like the second dream we will be sucker punched in a unexpected way 

another thing ive been watching a new anime that makes me think on the cocnept of umbra and warframes in general 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Aren't the Twin Queens Orokin and actually identical twins though, at least that's what the Kuria's Codex implies, so I don't believe that they would allow themselves to be cloned because the process is still imperfect

But I do believe that the child in the trailer is most likely the Stalker's operator though.

Edited by (PS4)LenKun98
Link to comment
Share on other sites
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

Posted
  • Author
Posted
56 minutes ago, (PS4)LenKun98 said:

Aren't the Twin Queens Orokin and actually identical twins though, at least that's what the Kuria's Codex implies, so I don't believe that they would allow themselves to be cloned because the process is still imperfect

But I do believe that the child in the trailer is most likely the Stalker's operator though.

ok lets get the poem in here for those who dont know it 

Secret Poem for twin queens origin

{warning: there is a lot of info in the spoilers}

POEM: 

Spoiler
1.

 

A Story once lost

 

Recovered by fate

 

The tale of two sisters

 

Who bore the same face

 

2.

 

Born one quiet morning

 

Amidst the great war

 

All elders were gathered

 

For this life’s new dawn

 

3.

 

Confused and bewildered

 

They judged them amiss

 

For they never witnessed

 

Two self-same as these

 

4.

 

A mirrored reflection

 

Had come into life

 

By will of their father

 

Kept safe from the knife

 

5.

 

Their sameness was shunned

 

As slave-like and soiled

 

They tended their strays

 

Rejected by all

 

 

6.

 

As both girls matured

 

Their bond grew in depth

 

They had the same poise

 

Same senses, same strength

 

 

7.

 

The uprising came

 

And spread like a weed

 

An army of copy-men

 

Ferocious and free

 

 

8.

 

And much like the sea

 

They came just like waves

 

For years they fought on

 

For years we remained

 

 

9.

 

Like chisel to stone

 

War molded the twins

 

Who ravaged the hordes

 

Became legend to them

 

10.

 

They had a deep strength

 

That came from each other

 

Unlike all these copies

 

Identical, but not brothers

 

11.

 

The copies could see it

 

They yearned for it too

 

If the twins could do it

 

Perhaps they could too

 

12.

 

The twins had attained

 

Something more than a whole

 

A true understanding

 

Of each other soul

 

13.

 

The copies became believers

 

One by one bowed to the twins

 

And led forth by their new masters

 

They ravaged the colonies

 

 
14.

 

Now a power to follow

 

Not a force to be fought

 

From the ashes of war

 

The Twin Queens were wrought

Another tennos take on it via Morec0[archived thread]

Spoiler
 poem about the Twin Queens. Perhaps the two most mysterious and unknown figures in all of Warframe lore. At last, some light to be shed on them.

 

And there is A LOT that can be gained and pulled from this.
 
Let's start with stanza two: this alone drops a HUGE bombshell on us.

 

The Twin Queens were born amidst "the great war". I think we can ALL understand what that means - the Old War. The Orokin vs. the Sentients. "But there could have been other wars!" We don't know about them. "The poem talks about a rebellion!" a rebellion that came AFTER their births, and still happened in the Orokin Era (but we'll get to that). So, this make the Twin Queens ANCIENT, standing alongside the likes of Teshin, Stalker, Lotus, and ourselves in years. Not only that, but it reveals they were Orokin.
 
... Well, at least under the RULE of the Orokin. I'm hesitant to say that they were Orokin themselves. Rather, I think they were one of the Orokin slave races - one of those that hasn't had a presence in-game: the Lorists.
 
First and thus far only mentioned in the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis, the Lorists are described as healers, but more than that they're visibly different than the Orokin: "The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms."

 

 
That line about "variation" itself may lend some credibility to my claim: the Orokin were varied by perfect, but these two children were identical - more identical, even, that anything the Orokin looking down at them had ever seen. They could tell it even at an early age: they were, as the poem will suggest in stanza 12, bound to each others souls, in a way. But there might be something more to support this in another line: "We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device."

 

 

Twins. Twins bred for purpose - bred on purpose, so the twin nature was certainly intended. In fact, cloned. A trait that seems to repeat itself through Orokin society - at least for the "lower classes" (read: slave races). If we're to take that these Lorists were regularly cloned in pairs - which the seeming intended nature of their cloned status would imply - then that pushes hints towards the Twin Queens sharing that reason for being, well, Twins - even if they were something completely unexpected to the Orokin (heck, even the Lorists in the C. Ancient Synth are even portrayed as having some deeper bond that neither can explain, though seemingly not NEAR on the same level as these two).

 

 

Furthermore, stanza five tells us that because of what they were, they were shunned, even while they cared to "their strays". What strays might mean is unclear, but it seems that they were still in Orokin society. The Corrupted Ancient Synthesis again tells us the Lorists "made them [the Orokin] uncomfortable and they made that known", so its possible that disgust was taken to an extreme because of JUST how similar these two were (on a sidenote, I'm starting to get the impression of the Orokin, at least their leaders and nobles, having been of a HIGHLY individualistic mindset, but that requires further consideration).

 

 

In stanza six we have the two girls growing, maturing and growing closer and stronger as they do.

 

 

But more interesting, come stanza seven we have what is VERY clearly the Grineer uprising. This is something we saw teased in the Eviscerator Synthesis, when the Grineer kill one Executor and tell who was seemingly her servant that she/he works for them now. There's some debate over whether or not this was an isolated incident or fallout from the Tenno massacre of the Orokin (Stalker's Codex), but I think it's neither.

 

 

Rather, I think this uprising happened simultaneously with the Old War. Tyl Regor speaks about the Sentients having "smashed the Orokin, freed us", but there was no way for him to know the Lotus was connected to the Sentients. This seems to rule out the probability of the Tenno having been the ones to have instigated this rebellion with their slaughter of the Orokin.

 

 

Furthermore, the poem reads "for years they fought on / for years we remained". So even while the Grineer were striking at the Orokin, trying to gain their freedom, the Orokin were still around, still kicking in some fashion. While we don't know a WHOLE lot about the Collapse, we can assume that it left Orokin society in tatters, unable to rebuild - hence the state of the System as it is now - but if the presumably-Orokin writer of this continued to remain throughout this insurrection, it would imply the Empire was still kicking in some fashion.
 
I will say I AM torn on this, so I'll post my thoughts an an alternate view in the spoiler below so perhaps someone can provide some further insight into what I might be overlooking.
 

 

Alternate view:

 

There's some debate over whether or not this was an isolated incident or fallout from the Tenno massacre of the Orokin (Stalker's Codex), but I think it's the former. In the Evisc. Synth. Executor Avantus talks about re-establishing the "Congress of Executors", suggesting that, whatever it is, it is pretty messed up. We see such gatherings of many called Executors in the Crewman Synth, where they're not only meting out punishment but also determining if the work of the corpus they're grilling is what's in the best interests of the Empire.

 

There's a lot of debate about this, but I'm of the mind that the Executors ARE the Emperors Stalker is referring to - Stalker idolizing them so much that he refers to them with a MUCH loftier title, not that, given their apparent ability to kill whoever they want (even the most brilliant of their scientists), it's without warrant. So, I think this Evisc. Synth. comes AFTER the Tenno slaughtering of the Orokin - as directed by Lotus at the end of the Old War.

 

But moving on, we are told that the war molded the twins.  This, I think, helps to contribute to the idea of them being Lorists.
As you all know, I use Chekov's Gun VERY frequently in my debates here, as I firmly believe, especially at this point of DE's fleshing out the Warframe verse, that if it's mentioned in some detail it has significance. That happens VERY frequently in the Synthesis, and the point I'm going to latch onto is when the narrator says that she was a relief worker, not a combat Lorist.
 
Now, you might argue that "well of course she says that, it's to demonstrate that she wasn't trained to handle this kind of scenario." But if that was the case, why not say just that? Why write:

 

"I wasn't a combat Lorist, Remballa and I were relief workers, used in disasters and outbreaks, not this."

 

And not something more vague like:

 

"I wasn't trained for this, Remballa and I were relief workers, used in disasters and outbreaks, not this."
 
We ALL know that DE loves to be vague, so when they get specific I think there's something worth paying attention to in it (just as how I think Teshin and Stalker belonged to the Dax mentioned in this same Synthesis). But, moving on, we can gather from this that there was a sect of Lorists used specifically in combat - to what extent we don't know, but given the mounting evidence of the Twin Queens sharing this nature it might have been they had a more offensive role than their relief-worker counterparts. Stanza nine tells us they ravaged the hordes, becoming legends to them, implying they had some kind of direct influence in the battle.

 

But HERE'S where things get whack. 
 
"10.
 
They had a deep strength
 
That came from each other
 
Unlike all these copies
 
Identical, but not brothers
 
11.

The copies could see it
 
They yearned for it too
 
If the twins could do it
 
Perhaps they could too"
 
 
This tells us that, despite being the same, all coming from the same parentage, there were vast differences between the Grineer - not genetic or physical differences "identical" but differences in how they saw things "but no brothers". Brothers disagree, but they generally tend to see eye-to-eye and get along. I think this stanza tells us that the Grineer rebellion wasn't a complete whole but rather a loosely-affiliated, if at all, grouping of Grineer tribes or clans, barely united and most certainly not agreeing on a common path.
 
But this changed when they saw the Twin Queens. Whatever it was about them, it left an impression on the Grineer - it made them long for the kind of unity that those two had. And this is where a bombshell drops:

 
 
"13. The copies became believers
 
One by one bowed to the twins
 
And led forth by their new masters
 
They ravaged the colonies"

 

 

 

Somewhere amidst this, the twins turned on their creators, on their masters, the Orokin - perhaps this lends credibility to the idea that the Tenno and the Executors were long gone (sleeping or dead) by this time, but I'm not sure - and united the Grineer underneath them to ravage the colonies of the Orokin (or whatever remained of them). Personally, I get a kind of pseudo-religious vibe from this - not on Anyo "GIVE UNTO THE VOID!"-levels of religious, but still having a belief that goes beyond following a leader - when it talks about the copies becoming believers and bowing to the twins, letting the twins become their new masters. This would line up with the reverence that we see the Grineer address the Twin Queens with in-game; something of a hearkening back to perhaps feudal Japan, where the Emperor was believed to be a divine being in his own right.

 

 

 

Regardless, it definitely shows that at some quick point after the Collapse of the Orokin Empire the Grineer were united into a force to be reckoned with, a young version of the Empire we see today. They took much of Origin for themselves, including, I would say, commandeering the Solar Rails. In the Anti-Moa Synthesis we are treated to scavengers that are heavily implied to be what the Corpus was before it became what we know today trying to sneak onto the rails, one of them suggesting that they should just fly in and ride the punch where it goes, while the father takes more cautious routes.
 
This implies that whoever is in control of the rails, they didn't like these guys and had an eye out for them - despite that, if the father's dropped hint is to be believed, at least some of them came from Orokin, though it does say the Empire fell some time ago (thanks in no small part to the "Plague"). Furthermore, listen to your Liset Radio, take note of the voices and the kinds of things they say. There is not a ONE Corpus character that seems to be in charge of the rails, heavily implying that only the Grineer command them.

 

But this is where the story ends. This is when

 

"14.
 
Now a power to follow
 
Not a force to be fought
 
From the ashes of war
 
The Twin Queens were wrought"

 

There is ONE question that I can't answer, though, and that's what the line "by the will of their father / kept safe from the knife" means. Is the knife a metaphor? One that would have split their deep units? Was it literal? Would they have been killed?

 

Personally, I am HOPING that it was literal - but not just killing for killing's sake. I'm hoping they're conjoined Twins. Two beings melded together into a single body, the kind of thing that SHOULD make them weaker for it, but, instead, has only left them stronger - rather than being powerful despite their fused nature, they are powerful because of it.
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 minutes ago, (PS4)LenKun98 said:

@(XB1)EternalDrk MakoThanks for that, it seems that most people haven't read the poem, but this quest seems to do more with the stalker, his acolytes, and their operators so I'm not sure how the Twin Queens are related to them

ive reviewed the video teaser many times till my eyes hurt, ive even expanded it to a large tv and looked for anything hidden in the background ,so far  , i dont honestly see a link other then black/red coloring of the energy nodes on the ploearms the guards have

but there are a few things that stand out for me that i find..interesting

the two figures who speak 

left side is small and "afraid" of the dreamers and calls the other her sister who is coughing with age and sounds old, sick? 

in the lore/poem it states the two queens are 

Spoiler
6.As both girls matured

Their bond grew in depth

They had the same poise

Same senses, same strength

12.
The twins had attained

Something more than a whole

A true understanding

Of each others soul

which is not reflected in this trailer , the sick/older one is calling the other a "worm" not very sisterly, but then extends an arm and embraces her stating we come like a prayer, so there is affection and care....

 i noticed on the sickly one the "seat" she appears to be on moves with her torso, so it may actually be apart of her body/dress/atire/armor?

the figures both have pointed head gear left sister is split while the sickly/old is a single point so maybe we see the order of 1 and 2 

the two guard figures that step forth appear to be female (large chest in breast shape, but  could be overweight males..) but as we know with grineer society the females actually are dominant within the ranks, so i think these figures are royal guards who are high ranking females, with a polearm (energy?) 

Trailer

Spoiler

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
(PSN)LenKun98

(PSN)LenKun98

Posted
Posted (edited)

@(XB1)EternalDrk Mako If this quest will be the introduction of Umbras, then that child is most likely the Stalker's operator and the older character is only one of the queens, because if we also get to meet the Twin Queens, they may be the equivalent of Lotus for those operators as Umbras are supposed to be the opposites of Primes leading to the "war" between Tenno

Edited by (PS4)LenKun98
Link to comment
Share on other sites
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako

Posted
  • Author
Posted
32 minutes ago, (PS4)LenKun98 said:

@(XB1)EternalDrk Mako If this quest will be the introduction of Umbras, then that child is most likely the Stalker's operator and the older character is only one of the queens, because if we also get to meet the Twin Queens, they may be the equivalent of Lotus for those operators as Umbras are supposed to be the opposites of Primes leading to the "war" between Tenno

I do understand were your coming

"  we also get to meet the Twin Queens, they may be the equivalent of Lotus for those operators as Umbras are supposed to be the opposites of Primes leading to the "war" between Tenno "

I do agree, this seems a plausible concept, and could be very interesting in terms of lore and current game campaign

on the other hand it could also mean that or a more internal battle as with a old saying with light we have darkness, with darkness we have light, yin/yang, balance in all things, we have primes the light, and umbras the darkness, quest could be leading us to an internal battle with our own darkness? to tap into that power and possibly use it to fight or fight with other tenno?

as within the pax east they stated an arena will come were we will also take part in and sub in for "grineer?" who cannot participate and this could also have part of that tenno vs tenno/stalker/umbra?

but something of note is how the stalker (guardian) and his acolytes demonstrate other powers besides their own frames powers. this amalgam, chimera power demonstration is non precedent with other warframes. and we dont know if the 6 defeated acolytes were all that he had. we could be facing other tenno acolytes as you said in this battle the dreamers (tenno) vs the shadows *though how misery bring the other shadows back dosnt keep in line with necros (rise enemy units) not friendlies ....

Spoiler

nzH27Bn.jpg

"If this quest will be the introduction of Umbras, then that child is most likely the Stalker's operator and the older character is only one of the queens" 

this though does not match with what we see in the trailer itself, and i honestly dont see how one would come to that conclusion ?

 why would the stalkers operator call the 1st queen a "sister" ? that dosnt match up, it would me master, or an ally, collaborator  ect like hunhow

Spoiler

 

as we currently understand it , the stalker is insane due to learning of their own second dream origin. also with how the stalker speaks to us (as also the acolytes) it dosnt match with the stalkers speech type. the hate, anger behind its intent, not cowering and fearful, stalker dosnt fear us, he/she in fact hunts us (rip loki who fell) so that personality switch dosnt make sense... as with our own operators we are  ...seemingly Honorable and combat oriented (my tenno is strong ..ect) which fall in line with how we "the tenno" have operated even before we reawakened. so id say the stalker falls in line with this as well. personally id like to save the stalker/operator and cure them of the madness .. 

the stalker him/herself is not affiliated with grineer or corpus. he is still in fact allied with the sentient if anyone, as he still bears a war (minus a piece lol) and the sentient powers he demonstrates still after we fought him/her in the second dream

another thing to think on is the stalker , for whatever reason has been awakened since the orokin/sentient , time we cannot fathom, even in insanity the stalker is still close in age to lotus/queens/teshin in terms of mental age ..just well twisted with hatred .....and rage 

if he hasnt bowed to them in this amount of time, i hardly doubt he/she would come before the queen in person as the stalkers operator and cower next to the queen fearful of us the dreamers(in fact tried to kill our operator twice on moon and on the ship after our awakening and has since still as the shadow stalker still hunts us when we are marked by the stalker...)

i can only then assume like us the stalkers(acolytes) operator is somewhere well hidden, not on the moon with us the dreamers, so probably they are on another orbiter/ship hidden via stalker/guardian stealth tech (though with alad v in shadow debt we find a way to track this tecnology )

so possibly its operator(us) tenno turning the table hunting stalkers operator , who takes refugee with the queens, but nothing in the trailer leads to this conclusion

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KvngJ

KvngJ

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, (XB1)ToothlessApollo said:

 

if that's the Stalker's operator, then that boss fight would be the perfect opportunity to receive parts for the Stalker frame. I'd love to have his frame in its original form, being able to dispel such enemies as nullifyers and Eximus units would be a valuable asset to have in the battlefield. He'd be a very good support frame in those regards. Also having slashdash, teleport and chaos would be awesome to have at once .

Legendary. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Arn-Solma

Arn-Solma

Posted
Posted

It's strange, how, when reading the poem, everyone assumes that the phrase 'saved from the knife' means that the Queens were saved from execution. For all we know, the 'knife' could refer to something else entirely. An Orokin experiment/program, perhaps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...