Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Brynslustafir]

2 minutes ago, ObjectM said:

say this again when your main frame was nerfed.

My main frame was Nova before she got nerfed. I still play her frequently. I just got over it. 

[Brynslustafir]

2 minutes ago, ariivanasan said:

ok. but de can just add more speed for this ability. now its very low

 

I have not experienced any problems with it's speed, but if you wanted that change, you should have suggested it from the start.

[Celas_]

2 minutes ago, Plasmaface said:

My main frame was Nova before she got nerfed. I still play her frequently. I just got over it. 

and this is the right way? just get over it? where are the community decisions in these things, the game just lives because of us. If Trump will be next President did you say "just get over it" too?

[corrosivePaladin]

Why would you want this? If you dont want to keep Desecrating just hit it again and it stops. Though I need to say that if you are actually bleeding out from your Despoil Desecrate you are doing something greatly wrong.

Speed for when it scans the body? You mean how it will still grab bodies under the 1 second decay from channeled weapons? Again you are doing something wrong if you are honestly worried about leaving that one body behind.

[Brynslustafir]

4 minutes ago, ObjectM said:

and this is the right way? just get over it? where are the community decisions in these things, the game just lives because of us. If Trump will be next President did you say "just get over it" too?

Both in the Case of Nova and Nekros, reasonable changes were made that could be considered nerfs if you insist on taking a binary stance. 

But the truth of the matter is that both frames were simply rebalanced to create a more unified experience.

If you think that just sounds like gibberish, you can look back to my mini-essay length comment.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Plasmaface

[Celas_]

2 minutes ago, Plasmaface said:

Both in the Case of Nova and Nekros, reasonable changes were made that could be considered nerfs if you insist on taking a binary stance. 

But the truth of the matter is that both frames were simply rebalanced to create a more unified experience.

If you think that just sounds like gibberish, you can look back to my mini-essay length comment on page 1. 

sry but i see no reason to nerf desecrate to 54%

[GraveDuality]

47 minutes ago, ObjectM said:

sry but i see no reason to nerf desecrate to 54%

Its for balancing. nekros was given the ability to kill things whilst using desecrate. more bodies = more loot. to balance, reduce the loot. makes sense. and i know that you won't be getting double the kills to fully compensate in a squad of 4, but it also allows nekros to use other skills and be more than just a lootframe. its a fair trade: Less loot but more fun

[Celas_]

Just now, NocturnalVahey said:

Its for balancing. nekros was given the ability to kill things whilst using desecrate. more bodies = more loot. to balance, reduce the loot. makes sense. and i know that you won't be getting double the kills to fully compensate in a squad of 4, but it also allows nekros to use other skills and be more than just a lootframe. its a fair trade: Less loot but more fun

less loot more health orbs, sure... balancing

[F4talFr4me]

3 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

i hate to say but if the skill desecrate is why he was your main then i think there are some deeper issues to look over. i don't like loot manipulation in the first place it makes things far easier to gain in this game then any other, looter king or not i play him as my third favorite frame for his shadows. an army under my control , enemies who Fear me and the HP and energy i give to me and my friends using energize and Pulse arcane in tandem with the new desecrate. i have a well rounded build that helps me and my team, as long as loot manipulation is on a frame there will be those like you who only care about that one aspect.

Whether you like him as a loot bot or a summoner type of frame. it doesent change the fact they nerfed him ether way. for no justified reason (or any reason at all because DE dont ever respond)

[IRVoidGuru]

4 hours ago, ObjectM said:

Not really Nekros is and was a support frame not a Tank frame, so i care about that. And yes with loot skills is easier to get ressources and? There are guys who started as new player and need some specific ressources so why he cant have it easier? DE said they want make the game less grind, so what is when Hydroid Prime come out want they nerf him with his augment too? Nekros should stay as support frame not as tank, we have enough tanks. And you should not look only on yourself, we have enough new player and we got enough crazy droprates.

ever since sheild of shadows came out he has always been a tank, my nekros has not changed in the amount of damage he can take. just as ever before i can still take hard hits its just recently that others are opening up to this fact. the only thing he supported was drops and an armor decrease witch with most teams isnt even useful due to 4 CP  being possible and often used. he was rarly used for skills other then desecrate and the devs made his other skills apealing while downing the over used one for that reason simply, we still Can manipulate loot and imo this skill still does that well, but we have more then just this now to do so. its time for desecrate to be nerfed to give open the want or idea to use him for something other then loot and to use the other loot abilities given to you recently. i do not mind the decrease in drop chance what so ever, if you want drops you have other options but Nekros deserves an identity in this game beyond Loot, its the same reason i cant stand hydroid, he isnt a solid frame he is used to farm and that is more then 70 percent of his use just like nekros was more then 70 percent used for desecrating loot. DE has made this clear with nerfs in the past , if you Over Use it, then it Will be Nerfed.  i also cant accept your idea that noobs need resorces as a reason to re buff desecrate. we have other loot getters and Nekros is in the Derelict where noobs shouldnt be going anyway 

[IRVoidGuru]

3 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Whether you like him as a loot bot or a summoner type of frame. it doesent change the fact they nerfed him ether way. for no justified reason (or any reason at all because DE dont ever respond)

they did nerf him and that sucks slightly. but we still have loot manipulators, and as it stood nekros was used Mostly for Desecrate, im more then sure out of skills used on all nekros's in every server that desecrate has more then 70 percent of all Nekros's total skills used. he was used by less then 10 percent of any 1 server for what he was supposed to be , witch is a Necromancer not a Free Drop Give-away. out of all the changes they made more good come then bad , the rework was everything i ever asked for with nekros

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

they did nerf him and that sucks slightly. but we still have loot manipulators, and as it stood nekros was used Mostly for Desecrate, im more then sure out of skills used on all nekros's in every server that desecrate has more then 70 percent of all Nekros's total skills used. he was used by less then 10 percent of any 1 server for what he was supposed to be , witch is a Necromancer not a Free Drop Give-away. out of all the changes they made more good come then bad , the rework was everything i ever asked for with nekros

You had to wait on a timer, preferably a very long timer to recast Sotd. You got the best out of desecrate by spamming it. You cannot compare the two, or declare the changes better for all because most people apparently weren't building for sotd ( which was and is extremely false)

 

[Finedaible]

I've been testing different configurations and builds for Nekros since the rework and it just doesn't feel fun to play him anymore.

I'm so tired right now that I don't even care at this point that Desecrate has been nerfed and turned into a toggle. It's just plain boring and disappointing to wait around a lone corpse for it to cough up that phat lootz just to have it go "puff' and turn up nothing...Not even an hp orb.

As for SotD, the shadow selection algorithm is disappointing every time I use the ability. I'll be killing several different enemies I want to raise and it raises completely different ones i didn't want. It will seem to prioritize Ancient Disruptors over Ancient Healers, the former bringing no benefit to you or your allies except screen cancer effects and FPS reduction; Healers give damage mitigation. On a related note, if the algorithm is prioritizing "tanky" units, why are Comba/Scrambus at the bottom of the priority? Comba & Scrambus have higher hp than a Corpus Tech, with greater mobility. Also, it's about time that certain projectiles from the shadows inherited caster's energy color to differentiate between friendly and enemy fire (e.g. Mutalist Moa tar, Sapping Osprey mines, Mine osprey mines, etc.). Having to recast the ability at full energy cost and at full animation length even if only one shadow is down is also a clunky mechanic, and requires a lot of heavy workarounds just to become usable.

[caxmoo]

I can't find the new descrate as a great change at all because nekros's survivability was based on descrate and now there are two facts makes descrate useless

1. it's so slow to cast , uncontrollable and not all descrations are successful, as I have noticed many flying drones, volatile runners and other enemies killed by explosions are not descrated 
2. the drop of health orbs is not guaranteed anymore because what descrate does now is only force for another roll of the drop table and most of the drop is ammo

losing descrate for nekros is losing his style and now making it just as any other frame seeking other types of survivability esspecially now that shadows of the death spawns a fixed number of shadows and it's not possible to increase the number with power strength anymore making it even harder to survive in high level missions where nekros would take one hit to grave if he can't CC with shadows.

[IRVoidGuru]

3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

You had to wait on a timer, preferably a very long timer to recast Sotd. You got the best out of desecrate by spamming it. You cannot compare the two, or declare the changes better for all because most people apparently weren't building for sotd ( which was and is extremely false)

 

you got the best loot out of it that way but guess what? Nekros was not built to Only give loot. his changes are good only players who are stuck on the Need for loot are upset about this Desecrate change, want it to give you more? kill more . and as for your thinking that players only use Nekros for Desecrate is False id ask you to look back before SOTR for how many ppl asked for nekros in chat just for desecrate spam. the Loot Nekros is Dead, Long Live the Necromancer

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[IRVoidGuru]

1 hour ago, Finedaible said:

I've been testing different configurations and builds for Nekros since the rework and it just doesn't feel fun to play him anymore.

I'm so tired right now that I don't even care at this point that Desecrate has been nerfed and turned into a toggle. It's just plain boring and disappointing to wait around a lone corpse for it to cough up that phat lootz just to have it go "puff' and turn up nothing...Not even an hp orb.

As for SotD, the shadow selection algorithm is disappointing every time I use the ability. I'll be killing several different enemies I want to raise and it raises completely different ones i didn't want. It will seem to prioritize Ancient Disruptors over Ancient Healers, the former bringing no benefit to you or your allies except screen cancer effects and FPS reduction; Healers give damage mitigation. On a related note, if the algorithm is prioritizing "tanky" units, why are Comba/Scrambus at the bottom of the priority? Comba & Scrambus have higher hp than a Corpus Tech, with greater mobility. Also, it's about time that certain projectiles from the shadows inherited caster's energy color to differentiate between friendly and enemy fire (e.g. Mutalist Moa tar, Sapping Osprey mines, Mine osprey mines, etc.). Having to recast the ability at full energy cost and at full animation length even if only one shadow is down is also a clunky mechanic, and requires a lot of heavy workarounds just to become usable.

at least i can agree that his shadows need better selection. i had an idea on how to fix this and i posted a link in an earlier comment. check it out and let me know if you like the ideas or if any changes are needed. we want to be able to choose our shadows 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

you got the best loot out of it that way but guess what? Nekros was not built to Only give loot. his changes are good only players who are stuck on the Need for loot are upset about this Desecrate change, want it to give you more? kill more . and as for your thinking that players only use Nekros for Desecrate is False id ask you to look back before SOTR for how many ppl asked for nekros in chat just for desecrate spam. the Loot Nekros is Dead Long Live the Nekromancer

I don't care about desecrate, as an ability then or now. After Egate, it sucked for loot and only gave health orbs, and after the rework, it still sucks and only gives more health orbs.

And people asking for cheese in recruit chat is not even close to proving that any part of nekros kit was being used more than another

We already know that factually, by the way nekros' kit was designed, desecrate was used more than sotd, but sotd was more fun to use, and was the better ability, IMHO (.....)

So there was/is no reason to me, whatever changes to descrate there were, to limit his ult. None.

Thats my take on this. If something got lost in translation, and you thought I was upset about desecrate, I'm here to say that is not true either. 

[IRVoidGuru]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I don't care about desecrate, as an ability then or now. After Egate, it sucked for loot and only gave health orbs, and after the rework, it still sucks and only gives more health orbs.

And people asking for cheese in recruit chat is not even close to proving that any part of nekros kit was being used more than another

We already know that factually, by the way nekros' kit was designed, desecrate was used more than sotd, but sotd was more fun to use, and was the better ability, IMHO (.....)

So there was/is no reason to me, whatever changes to descrate there were, to limit his ult. None.

Thats my take on this. If something got lost in translation, and you thought I was upset about desecrate, I'm here to say that is not true either. 

wait wait wait , are you upset about the numbers loss? we had no choice , it was able to Crash the game on any sever PC Xbox or Ps4

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

wait wait wait , are you upset about the numbers loss? we had no choice , it was able to Crash the game on any sever PC Xbox or Ps4

So they say...I have no facts for you, it's all just kind of information I've been looking around, reading, and I don't believe it, not from the moment I heard that nonsensical excuse. Take everything with a grain of salt of course.

Very few players actually aknowledge that anything about sotd was causing lag. Pc blames console, and console blames pc

Meanwhile sotr is a super buggy update

And it apparently still crashes at 7 shadows according to some people. (pure here say)...meaning...it probably is an issue with the ability outside of the actual number

Also, 7 shadows was the limit at 100 power strength, not some random magical bandaid fix number that low end computers could support.

De felt the need to nerf Sotd, the same reason they felt the need to add in health decay, because they thought the ability was too strong without some sort of duration, and wanted to tone it down. 

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Or maybe they legit thought it was a problem and decided to try and quick fix it and messed up on the math that was supposed to show compensation for the loss of shadows

[IRVoidGuru]

10 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

So they say...I have no facts for you, it's all just kind of information I've been looking around, reading, and I don't believe it, not from the moment I heard that nonsensical excuse. Take everything with a grain of salt of course.

Very few players actually aknowledge that anything about sotd was causing lag. Pc blames console, and console blames pc

Meanwhile sotr is a super buggy update

And it apparently still crashes at 7 shadows according some people. (pure here say)...meaning...it probably is an issue with he ability outside of the actual number

Also, 7 shadows was the limit at 100 powerstrength, not some random magical bandaid fix number that low end computers could support.

De felt the need to nerf Sotd, the same reason they felt the need to add in health decay, because they thought the ability was too strong without some sort of duration, and wanted to tone it down. 

 

im afraid i don't see it that way at all. my 18 shadows build lagged players every time i took any one with me. 2 of my build did crash my PS4 Warframe. i haven't heard of any crashes with only 7 shadows. ik the Base number of shadows at 100 percent strength with old nekros iv had him for over a year. the HP decay over time is useful so i can let my shadows die out and re-summon a new batch if their lvls require it, and can do all of that in less then 1 min ( witch my shadows without HP decay could last much longer) and any longer then that could run down more time then i want , if i want it to last longer just re-cast.

i strongly think that you should look at some of the over powered abilities we have and think to yourself if DE would Nerf shadows before them. shadows was not overpowered or even too powerful. it was a problem that could crash games 

P.S. using any specters made things worse by a large amount and i had 6 of them for my normal army. being host was the only way to avoid lag personally but my team still suffered

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 minute ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

im afraid i dont see it that way at all. my 18 shadows build lagged players every time i took any one with me. 2 of my build did crash my PS4 Warframe. i havent heard any crashes with only 7 shadows. ik the Base number of shadows at 100 percent strength with old nekros iv had him for over a year. the HP decay over time is useful so i can let my shadows die out and resummon a new batch if there lvls require it, and can do all of that in less then 1 min ( witch my shadows without HP decay could last much longer) and any longer then that could run down more time then i want , if i want it to last longer just re-cast.

i stongly think that you should look at some of the over powered abilities we have and think to yourself if DE would Nerf shadows before them. shadows was not overpowered or even too powerful. it was a problem that could crash games 

If sotd was really that big of a problem, and they couldn't fix it any other way, they probably should have just used that exalted scythe idea (which fit his passive) and called it a day. 

Those overpowered abilities have been that way for a long time. Nova and Ash are on a different level of "over poweredness" (and I mention them because I hate them.). DE does what they want. And I 100% believe they nerf Sotd just because

Frost was the first rework (next to excalibur, who no longer counted as soon as they charged energy on the mini spin blinds and then ignored people asking them to just take out the unnecessary spin blind no one asked for). But Frost was exceptional. Every frame should get that kind of treatment by the devs, that much enthusiasm. Nekros received none.

The things you claim to be able to do with Sotd could be implemented several different ways. Even some silly suggestions like:

Recasting the ability to kill them and simultaneously raise up a new army.

Have the ability raise up new shadows passively for a small duration after cast

Have the shadows scale at the same rate the enemies do in mission

Give soul punch and desecrate some useful synergy to it. 

Allow you to use a soul for health or armor the way inaroscan eat enemies

The 100 energy cost to heal the shadows is unnecessary, the aggro draw adversly affects power strength, the denial of eximus units is all wrong.

they could have at least limited it to 10 shadows and then had a 10 energy cost per each shadow....I find it highly highly unlikely 7 was anything but the number they just chose because reasons.

I find it very likely DE nerfs things they "feel" are over powered, regardless of whether or not they are

 

[IRVoidGuru]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

If sotd was really that big of a problem, and they couldn't fix it any other way, they probably should have just used that exalted scythe idea (which fit his passive) and called it a day. 

Those overpowered abilities have been that way for a long time. Nova and Ash are on a different level of "over poweredness" (and I mention them because I hate them.). DE does what they want. And I 100% believe they nerf Sotd just because

Frost was the first rework (next to excalibur, who no longer counted as soon as they charged energy on the mini spin blinds and then ignored people asking them to just take out the unnecessary spin blind no one asked for). But Frost was exceptional. Every frame should get that kind of treatment by the devs, that much enthusiasm. Nekros received none.

The things you claim to be able to do with Sotd could be implemented several different ways. Even some silly suggestions like:

Recasting the ability to kill them and simultaneously raise up a new army.

Have the ability raise up new shadows passively for a small duration after cast

Have the shadows scale at the same rate the enemies do in mission

Give soul punch and desecrate some useful synergy to it. 

Allow you to use a soul for health or armor the way inaroscan eat enemies

The 100 energy cost to heal the shadows is unnecessary, the aggro draw adversly affects power strength, the denial of eximus units is all wrong.

they could have at least limited it to 10 shadows and then had a 10 energy cost per each shadow....I find it highly highly unlikely 7 was anything but the number they just chose because reasons.

I find it very likely DE nerfs things they "feel" are over powered, regardless of whether or not they are

 

exalted scythe idea? either way shadows of the dead was and is a good skill and didn't need to be replaced.

nova got nerfed well over, and that happened a while ago. ash has a rework coming.  why would DE nerf something just cuz? lol its utterly not true. they have a player base to keep and wouldn't  just down anything for any reason.

excals energy loss blind sucks but is not without its reasons. all people did was spin attack when exalted blade was first released to Ps4 including myself, this energy loss limits you from spin attack spamming without cost.

i find all the reworks so far to be good , even with the nerfs that came after.... maybe volts shield didn't need to Eat energy per sec and for distance X_X

recast to kill them? nty and rise a new army at the same time? counter productive and removes your safety for just casting a power.

rise up enemies for a small duration? depending on what small means it would be useless.

enemies in game don't scail in front of you why should shadows? and also the lag that would be implemented when trying to calculate the number of shadows , rising there lvls then readjusting the HP and doing this repeatedly ? nty

giving soul punch some synergy is an idea i already have posted in a previous comment. find the link check it out and let me know your thoughts. this is the only slightly possible fix you came up with no offense.

My build has 0 problem keeping my shadows healed and going, i don't see aggro draw and power strength as having anything to do with each other. unless you mean your shadows are dying and you need more power strength. then that's a personal build problem not a forum post problem.

7 was the base power strength number for shadows , 7 wasn't pulled out of some random number generator and then slapped on just cuz lets limit our players. why you could think that i have no idea, if you think the Devs are out to get their players that bad then maybe you need a break

The Devs want the game to be fun for every one and atm i am having a heck load more fun with new Nekros then i did with the old version. as a person who considers Nekros my 3erd favorite and 3erd best frame ( even before this rework) this rework is perfect for him only minor tweaks are needed to the selection of the enemies you get when making shadows.

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[LunarEdge7]

For the army ability. I want Soul Punch to be able to take out which shadow you no longer want. Maybe make it so that you'll need to hold down 1 to dispatch the shadow you don't need.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

exalted scythe idea? either way shadows of the dead was and is a good skill and didn't need to be replaced.

nova got nerfed well over, and that happened a while ago. ash has a rework coming.  why would DE nerf something just cuz? lol its utterly not true. they have a player base to keep and wouldn't  just down anything for any reason.

excals energy loss blind sucks but is not without its reasons. all people did was spin attack when exalted blade was first released to Ps4 including myself, this energy loss limits you from spin attack spamming without cost.

i find all the reworks so far to be good , even with the nerfs that came after.... maybe volts shield didn't need to Eat energy per sec and for distance X_X

recast to kill them? nty and rise a new army at the same time? counter productive and removes your safety for just casting a power.

rise up enemies for a small duration? depending on what small means it would be useless.

enemies in game don't scail in front of you why should shadows? and also the lag that would be implemented when trying to calculate the number of shadows , rising there lvls then readjusting the HP and doing this repeatedly ? nty

giving soul punch some synergy is an idea i already have posted in a previous comment. find the link check it out and let me know your thoughts. this is the only slightly possible fix you came up with no offense.

My build has 0 problem keeping my shadows healed and going, i don't see aggro draw and power strength as having anything to do with each other. unless you mean your shadows are dying and you need more power strength. then that's a personal build problem not a forum post problem.

7 was the base power strength number for shadows , 7 wasn't pulled out of some random number generator and then slapped on just cuz lets limit our players. why you could think that i have no idea, if you think the Devs are out to get their players that bad then maybe you need a break

The Devs want the game to be fun for every one and atm i am having a heck load more fun with new Nekros then i did with the old version. as a person who considers Nekros my 3erd favorite and best frame ( even before this rework) this rework is perfect for him only minor tweaks are needed to the selection of the enemies you get when making shadows.

Volt was my favourite. Is. But what they did to him left me feeling sour. (i don't want any frame to be nerfed, but it's maddening to see some seemingly be treated better than others)

Discharge....the name and casting animation, the cheese stun, riot shield is useless, passive mechanics....

But that's not about nekros. 

My ideas may have been terrible, they weren't really thought out. But why no eximi? Why a health drain you cannot control? I was imagining either the old duration, after which health decay would set in...or something where desecrate healed them....not trying to hard

I'm salty, because I believe that DE will keep adding things that aren't needed -->corrupted mods, restores, syndicate perks and large restores, focus schools....etc..while not really focusing on the warframed themselves being great. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[F4talFr4me]

8 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

 he was rarly used for skills other then desecrate and the devs made his other skills apealing while downing the over used one for that reason simply, we still Can manipulate loot and imo this skill still does that well, but we have more then just this now to do so. its time for desecrate to be nerfed to give open the want or idea to use him for something other then loot and to use the other loot abilities given to you recently.

WHAT? "made his other skills more appealing" you say? how? nerfing his only 2 skills anyone ever used? if the first skill he has EVER looks "appealing" then thats when you know Nekros is 100% officialy dead. (he was pretty much before this NERF").

Give me what you are smoking please. i seriously shocked you can write anything posative about a nerf to a already weak frame. do you even know what "make other skills more appealing" even means? they are STILL USELESS!.