The Nikana Prime should require mr 10 for using it.

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

Just now, Terror-Of-Death said:

That's cool and all, but why should real life logic apply to everything in video games? Progression is a thing, yes, but normally a total newbie wouldn't be able to get his hands on a Nikana Prime. If they got plats from buying plats from DE, I'd say they've earned it.

It's not real life logic in the sense of game physics etc but a weapon getting better Nikana<Dragon Nikana<Nikana Prime but logic in regards to a progressively improving weapon. And even if you buy plat from DE you are unable to purchase a MR locked weapon from the market so it shouldn't really be one rule for one and one for another.

[Beggining]

2 minutes ago, Terror-Of-Death said:

That's cool and all, but why should real life logic apply to everything in video games? Progression is a thing, yes, but normally a total newbie wouldn't be able to get his hands on a Nikana Prime. If they got plats from buying plats from DE, I'd say they've earned it.

Progression isn't a thing from real life: it's literally a video game logic to start with weaker things and earn better things as you go through the game. If this feeling of 'progression' is lost, then there'd be no satisfaction from earning a powerful weapon. Why should I try to progress and become better to obtain that infinity minus one sword, when a better variant is just around the corner without the restrictions?

 

2 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Why is that a problem exactly? Should it have been weaker than Vanilla Nikana? Honestly just screaming "power creep" never made sense to me.

It should at least be weaker to Dragon Nikana (which requires you to earn it) or be gated the same way Dragon Nikana does.

[ChaoSoldier1986]

Maybe they should have made Dragon Nikana be a part to craft Nikana Prime like Nikana was for Dragon Nikana?

[armedpoop]

Just now, Beggining said:

It should at least be weaker to Dragon Nikana (which requires you to earn it) or be gated the same way Dragon Nikana does.

It shouldnt be weaker than Dragon Nikana (which according to the lore is a tenno reverse engineered prime, like all other vanilla variants of primes. Well maybe the vanilla is the one they based it on, Dragon Nikana Prime when?) 

I can agree on the MR lock needing to be higher sure, but no prime should be weaker than any of its other non prime versions. This boils down to MR locks being under utilized tho. 

[Beggining]

1 minute ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Maybe they should have made Dragon Nikana be a part to craft Nikana Prime like Nikana was for Dragon Nikana?

That would have the same reception with Equinox: other frames doesn't require a forma, so why should she? People would be angry at that method. Still, good enough of a try :)

[Beggining]

2 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

It shouldnt be weaker than Dragon Nikana (which according to the lore is a tenno reverse engineered prime, like all other vanilla variants of primes. Well maybe the vanilla is the one they based it on, Dragon Nikana Prime when?) 

I can agree on the MR lock needing to be higher sure, but no prime should be weaker than any of its other non prime versions. This boils down to MR locks being under utilized tho. 

MR locks for the win!

For now, all MR locks seem to be messed up and disorganized :P

Edited August 18, 2016 by Beggining
Woot da woop

[Terror-Of-Death]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)AnnoyedHaddock said:

It's not real life logic in the sense of game physics etc but a weapon getting better Nikana<Dragon Nikana<Nikana Prime but logic in regards to a progressively improving weapon. And even if you buy plat from DE you are unable to purchase a MR locked weapon from the market so it shouldn't really be one rule for one and one for another.

By that logic, as another user has stated, then the Galatine Prime should be locked behind an MR12+ requirement. I wonder if users will be happy with that?

 

4 minutes ago, Beggining said:

Progression isn't a thing from real life: it's literally a video game logic to start with weaker things and earn better things as you go through the game. If this feeling of 'progression' is lost, then there'd be no satisfaction from earning a powerful weapon. Why should I try to progress and become better to obtain that infinity minus one sword, when a better variant is just around the corner without the restrictions?

I still get the satisfaction of getting my Mastery points. I try to get higher MR because I want higher caps for everything. Different strokes for different folks.

[Beggining]

2 minutes ago, Terror-Of-Death said:

I still get the satisfaction of getting my Mastery points. I try to get higher MR because I want higher caps for everything. Different strokes for different folks.

We're discussing about a way to make Dragon Nikana viable, not used once for mastery and stored forever gathering dust.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Beggining
I ain't afraid of no ghosts

[Dragazer]

Yeah I agree mastery locks on equipment in general need to be looked at, in the Nikana Primes case though, the Dragon Nikana blocks twice as much dmg than the prime version so it isn't an exact straight upgrade

Edited August 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[Khaine62]

3 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Why is that a problem exactly? Should it have been weaker than Vanilla Nikana? Honestly just screaming "power creep" never made sense to me.

It is power creep. Power creep is when new content outstrips old content. As it stand Nikana Prime: 

1. Easier to get.
2. And completely outclassed Dragon Nikana 

It be different if say Nikana Prime was on par with it in a different way. EX: Dragon has much higher status chance and multiplier while Prime has maybe sheer physical damage and crit chance. However, that is not the case. Dragon Nikana is locked behind hours and hours of play to even get at the level to use it. It is simply Mastery fodder and with no incentive outside of that to get it. 

Once you get the better version of something, why would you go backwards? They play the same just when one getting you better results.

[ChaoSoldier1986]

Then Dragon Nikana needs to be Buffed to be a Sidegrade of Nikana Prime

[Terror-Of-Death]

2 minutes ago, Beggining said:

We're discussing about a way to make Dragon Nikana viable, not used once for mastery and stored forever gathering dust.

But power creep works that way. Weapons that aren't viable will be left behind by the majority of the userbase. I've seen this in every MMO I've played (and I've been playing since 2003). This isn't unique to Warframe, and frankly I don't see it as a problem.

[Sziklamester]

All Prime stuff mr 0 because of Prime access and everyone can buy it who have Money. That is why primes wont get Masters lock but should be. DE will not change this in fact they are getting their money from PA. Forgot to mention if you buy Prime access then you can bypass the mr needs. That is how some mr rank 2 guys wield soma prime for example.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Sziklamester

[Antiphoton]

I hope that if DE ever releases Teshin's twin Nikanas, they'll ask for two Dragon Nikanas instead of the Prime variant to craft them.

[Khaine62]

Just now, Dragazer said:

Yeah I agree mastery locks on equipment in general need to be looked at, in the Nikana Primes case though, the Dragon Nikana blocks twice as much dmg than the prime version so it isn't an exact straight upgrade

True but Prime outclasses it on every other level except for puncture.

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

Just now, Terror-Of-Death said:

By that logic, as another user has stated, then the Galatine Prime should be locked behind an MR12+ requirement. I wonder if users will be happy with that?

I'd like to know where you got the MR12+ from seen as the regular galatine is MR3+ 

[Terror-Of-Death]

Just now, (XB1)AnnoyedHaddock said:

I'd like to know where you got the MR12+ from seen as the regular galatine is MR3+ 

War is MR 8, and it's gonna be better than the War. Regular Galatine isn't gonna be even in the race.

[John89brensen]

29 minutes ago, WickedEuphoria said:

I don't think a low MR person would even know how to get the Dragon Nikana legitimately in game, and especially not be able to farm for it given you need to complete star chart missions to get the segment for your ship to use relics (also you would need to farm for relics).

It doesn't matter if they dont know how to farm the Nikana Prime or all the requirements to get the Dragon Nikana, a new player can always drop plat in trade to get an "end game" weapon very early in the game. Besides, there is no incentive to use the Dragon Nikana if the Nikana Prime has no MR requirement, other than just using it as MR fodder, which is something that you cannot do to a weapon that is still one of the best available.

Im with OP, if other Primes have MR requirement (Dakra Prime is 6 for example) the Nikana Prime should be no exeption, especially when you consider that its one of the best weapons in the game. Its not too late for DE to correct this, just make it so that from the day of the update onwards no one can craft the Nikana unless they are MR 10, those that already have it can keep it.

Also the codex calls the Dragon Nikana a "master's weapon, that only the most worthy Tenno may wield", so the Nikana Prime its upgrade should follow the same rule, being a master's weapon that only the worthy can wield, that means put some effort in the game before getting your hands on that weapon of doom.

[armedpoop]

2 minutes ago, Khaine62 said:

It is power creep. Power creep is when new content outstrips old content. As it stand Nikana Prime: 

1. Easier to get.
2. And completely outclassed Dragon Nikana 

It be different if say Nikana Prime was on par with it in a different way. EX: Dragon has much higher status chance and multiplier while Prime has maybe sheer physical damage and crit chance. However, that is not the case. Dragon Nikana is locked behind hours and hours of play to even get at the level to use it. It is simply Mastery fodder and with no incentive outside of that to get it. 

Once you get the better version of something, why would you go backwards? They play the same just when one getting you better results.

I know what power creep is, thanks for the info tho. 

In a game where you literally need to use everything, you would go back (not sure why you wouldnt get them in order of power all things considered here) to get the required mastery to be able to rank up.  

Ive said it before, and ill say it again: Power creep in Warframe is NOT an issue. In a game where you get everything regardless of its stats being god tier or absolute trash, of course you will get the best thing, its your choice to progress thru mastery or not. There is absolutely no reason for a primed version of a weapon to be weaker than any of its non-prime counterparts. 

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

The War is a different weapon entirely though should have no bearing on the requirements of the Galatine Prime. We are talking about weapons that have a direct upgrade from one too the other eg Dragon Nikana- Nikana Prime. The same weapon but just improved.

[John89brensen]

1 minute ago, Terror-Of-Death said:

War is MR 8, and it's gonna be better than the War. Regular Galatine isn't gonna be even in the race.

War is MR 10. Galatine Prime is another weapon that should have a high MR requirement.

[Terror-Of-Death]

Just now, John89brensen said:

War is MR 10. Galatine Prime is another weapon that should have a high MR requirement.

Whoop, my bad, but that reinforces my original point even more.

 

1 minute ago, (XB1)AnnoyedHaddock said:

The War is a different weapon entirely though should have no bearing on the requirements of the Galatine Prime. We are talking about weapons that have a direct upgrade from one too the other eg Dragon Nikana- Nikana Prime. The same weapon but just improved.

They're the same class of weapons. I think of weapons in the same class as very comparable. Why do you think people compared Galatine to War? Heck, I pretty much compare ALL melee weapons.

[_Iye]

43 minutes ago, Kanlor said:

i think all MR requirements should be organized a bit better

Actually with the above mentioned opinion we can or may bring some solution to the NOOB problem a little bit. They are coming up into the sorties, raids with so little experience and often bugging out the whole thing. A nikana prime is a power blade and should not be available to MR-2 player as easily with money anyone can have plenty of plats and therefore prime things. Even some people have suggested the galatine and tigris prime to have MR-15+ restriction just because of the power house they are and should not be available to the entry level.

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

Just now, Terror-Of-Death said:

They're the same class of weapons. I think of weapons in the same class as very comparable. Why do you think people compared Galatine to War? Heck, I pretty much compare ALL melee weapons.

Yes they are the same class but they are different weapons so the fact that one is X rank shouldn't affect the rank of the other. The War may be better, but it is not a 'direct' upgrade of the Galatine, the Galatine Prime is.

The Soma is MR6 and the Boltor is MR2, should these 2 weapons have the same requirements because like the War and Galatine they are both very closely matched with one being only slightly better than the other? To the point where it's a matter of personal preference possibly. 

[Khaine62]

3 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

I know what power creep is, thanks for the info tho. 

In a game where you literally need to use everything, you would go back (not sure why you wouldnt get them in order of power all things considered here) to get the required mastery to be able to rank up.  

Ive said it before, and ill say it again: Power creep in Warframe is NOT an issue. In a game where you get everything regardless of its stats being god tier or absolute trash, of course you will get the best thing, its your choice to progress thru mastery or not. There is absolutely no reason for a primed version of a weapon to be weaker than any of its non-prime counterparts. 

Who said it had to weaker? They could have been on par just in different ways. Having Nikana Prime almost completely outclass Dragon but have Dragon locked at MR 8 makes no sense.