Don't touch Nullifiers

[ZenroZephon]

The thing is nullies are annoying, but that cause they have only one weakness in their defense. How I would fix them is make it so their defense is a weakness as well. Like have it so melee could bat the bubble (and the nullie with it) away, rag-dolling them on the ground (nullie volleyballs anyone?) . As well as things like arrows, bolts pop the bubble instantly with one shot, but that would make the bubble implode on the nullie and any other enemies inside the bubble knocking them down (just a knock down, no damage from it or the shot that popped the bubble).

I think that and many a limited number of charges in that backpack to make the bubbles be a nice way to make them less annoying and a bit more fun to fight against. But that just my opinion on them, What you all think of this idea?

[Archforge]

How I solve nullifiers in game:
Step 1: Bring potatoed Glaive prime with toxin and magnetic elemental
Step 2: Thow Glaive prime to the nullfier
Step 3: One hit every nullifier up to lvl 60
Step 4: Realize there are 10 nullifiers surrounding you
Step 5: Use mlg tactics I learned in warframe to dodge and move (like a ninja) to kill them
Step 6: Still dies because defense buffs disappears and nullies with bombards have aim bots with tenno seeking bullets

Yeah nullies are "decent" for the first 30 mins of any void/corpus survivals I ran. I sometimes even bring bows and one shot them inside their bubbles without any problem. However, after that, the difficulty only exponentially increases due to their shear numbers, damage sponge shields, and 1 hitting, fast reloading weapon. If I play with a squad in a corpus survival, they always bring RoF weapons (especially Soma prime and quanta V) due to their high usability to nullifier bubbles. But this only promote fix weapon setups which is like bringing ash/ember in Sorties (good thing radiation proc is there to F*** everyone up). This is also why we need skill nullifying enemies; To stop cheesy warframe skills. But sometimes I wish I can use my six forma'd lanka to a corpus/void survival mission without having to exit early because of dying to them.
I don't know what kind of fix, change, rework (or wtf they want to call it) DE will do but I hope in the future I can say that

Spoiler

 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Archforge

[(NSW)GameV8]

Nullifiers could really use a rework.

I'm sure my idea is hardly unique, but I would make the bubble act a bit like the Grineer Blunt.

Give the Nullifier Crewman some armor so he can survive without the bubble, and then have him deploy his Null Field Generator in combat.

 

This could have a few advantages.

1. It could allow the Nullifier Crewman to have a deeper function than a Mobile No-Fun Zone, because even after the Generator is destroyed the NC would still be a heavy unit like the Corpus Tech.
2. It could provide the counter play of being able to target/kill a NC before he sets up his Generator.
3. It could relieve the visual noise of too many Nullifier bubbles on screen at once, at least if generators can't be placed inside of other fields.

[Hesyol]

It will be sad if DE nerfs them. Not because I care much about nullies, but because they are listening to people who just don't know how to play. 

Seriously, we need more stronger enemies that are interesting to fight not making existing ones weaker. If anyone is thinking nullifiers are hard he can go play low level missions until he understands how to play. Because they are not that hard at all.

[Slaviar]

Nullis were made to stop rep farms at Cerberus. I was there when it happened. And they've partially achieved it- nobody farmed there anymore. Everyone went to Stephano. But this bandaid continues to exist. Why I don't know. It's not funny. It's not challenging. It's only annoying. The irony? Nullis are a pain for normal teams. All campers are popping bubbles from afar. It's not like they're killing with weapons. Only rep farms suffered from their addition

It screws buff reliant frames and people who like slow firing weapons. And don't go "you have secondary" on me. Yeah, I have. But my favourite pistol is Lex Prime and my #1 gun is Vay Hek. In every shooter I can think of shotgun and heavy pistol would be good combination- shotgun for close to medium range, pistol for medium to long. But not in Warframe, or more specifically not against Corpus.

"But slide attack!", well, sorry, I'm Inaros/Chroma/<insert frame which needs buff most of the time>. And sliding is not always good idea because there's often freaking army under bubble

2 hours ago, Hesyol said:

It will be sad if DE nerfs them. Not because I care much about nullies, but because they are listening to people who just don't know how to play. 

Seriously, we need more stronger enemies that are interesting to fight not making existing ones weaker. If anyone is thinking nullifiers are hard he can go play low level missions until he understands how to play. Because they are not that hard at all.

NOBODY. EVER. SAID. THEY. ARE. HARD.

[Hypernaut1]

"they are not hard. I can kill them easily.i just don't like them"

So WHAT are you complaining about then? That they take a modicum of extra effort? No, they don't restrict your load out... They can still be killed by a sniper in 5-6 shots.

If they are"easy"to kill as you say, why make then even easier?

Edited August 21, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[Greensun97]

Well, nullies are strange enemies. If there is only 1 is the room at low-mid lvl, they're not extremely hard (except for some frames who needs buff to survive).

But the problem comes when there is 10 of them per square CENTIMETER and there is a whole corpus Tech bataillon inside the bubble, and all of them are lvl 80-90+. Even with Ash, who don't need his powers to survive (in oppostion of Inaros/Rhino/Chroma/...) I'm like : "Do you really expect me to get inside the bubble?" (And popping it with a Tigris? You must be joking right?)

[tutzdes]

7 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

"they are not hard. I can kill them easily.i just don't like them"

So WHAT are you complaining about then? That they take a modicum of extra effort? No, they don't restrict your load out... They can still be killed by a sniper in 5-6 shots.

If they are"easy"to kill as you say, why make then even easier?

Rubico has 3 seconds reload and 5 ammo mag, Snipetron has 4 ammo mag and 3.5 seconds reload. Should I tell about Vectis? Snipers' ammo economy is balanced around them 1-2 shot everything. Switching weapons is way too long without Conclave mods. Or you can just use some crazy OP high RoF stuff.

It's not a rant about easy to kill or hard to kill. It's about Nullifiers FORCING everyone to use the same stupid boring weapons, frames and tactics. They are super easy to kill with some setups, hard to kill with most others and nearly unkillable by some guns combos. It would be balanced if some setups were effective against nullies but bad against something else, and weapons ineffective against Nullies were godly against other enemies. But it is NOT the case. Weapons, effective against Nulllies are still crazy OP against everything, sniper rifles, launchers and bows are not super effective even without Nullies. This limits the variety and makes Corpus unfun faction to play against.

[DeccanTraps]

You know I don't dispute the idea that everything should have a counter.
I just dispute the idea that the counter to everything should be the same one unit.

Imagine for a moment, that there are no Nullifyers.

Instead, the Coprus has the ECM moa, it disrupts our target acquisition for powers like bladestorm and peacemaker in an area.

The Infested have the Void Parasite, a fat slug like thing that latches onto a warframe and passes buffs like hysteria or iron skin to its parent until one of them dies.

The Grineer have a new variant of the obnoxious Commander, if he observes particular attacks like volts lightning being used, he leads a bunch of grineer to lockers where they get gear that makes them immune.

The Sentients would get nothing, but I'd buff them so you NEEDED your powers to face them given they were meant to be vulerable to the void.

The idea would be to change it from a single binary 'Corpus say no' unit and have multiple differing ones, which would promote and deny differing tactics. Instead of the current 'ROF the bubble to death, or meele' which faced with the array of possibilities we are meant to have is rather reductive.

The differing ways that factions we fight respond to our powers would become one more tool to help define them.

Edited August 21, 2016 by DeccanTraps

[Hypernaut1]

36 minutes ago, tutzdes said:

Rubico has 3 seconds reload and 5 ammo mag, Snipetron has 4 ammo mag and 3.5 seconds reload. Should I tell about Vectis? Snipers' ammo economy is balanced around them 1-2 shot everything. Switching weapons is way too long without Conclave mods. Or you can just use some crazy OP high RoF stuff.

It's not a rant about easy to kill or hard to kill. It's about Nullifiers FORCING everyone to use the same stupid boring weapons, frames and tactics. They are super easy to kill with some setups, hard to kill with most others and nearly unkillable by some guns combos. It would be balanced if some setups were effective against nullies but bad against something else, and weapons ineffective against Nullies were godly against other enemies. But it is NOT the case. Weapons, effective against Nulllies are still crazy OP against everything, sniper rifles, launchers and bows are not super effective even without Nullies. This limits the variety and makes Corpus unfun faction to play against.

So nullifiers need to be nerfed in the off chance you feel that you NEED to use a rubico in a 1hr corpus mission and don't want to bring a complimentary secondary?

That's ridiculous logic. Nullys are not impossible to kill with any set up unless you deliberately try to gimp yourself. Stop exaggerating how difficult they are to take down with low RoF weapons. and stop with this scenario where snipers are the most popular weapon in the game. should i nerf an enemy because i can't use a glaive exclusively against it? 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[tutzdes]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So nullifiers need to be nerfed in the off chance you feel that you NEED to use a rubico in a 1hr corpus mission and don't want to bring a complimentary secondary?

That's ridiculous logic. Nullys are not impossible to kill with any set up unless you deliberately try to gimp yourself. Stop exaggerating how difficult they are to take down with low RoF weapons.

If using like 80% of all arsenal is "gimping yourself" you're totally right.

A lot of people here told to likes of you, that nobody wants to "nerf" nullifiers, but people will really appreciate Nullies to be balanced against most setups.

Relax, you can continue to use your Rhinoboltor P and Simulorage and most likely will still out-damage all this pesky sniper rifle, launcher, shotguns, semi-auto and non-naramon melee users.

[(PSN)Jennison99]

make punch-through actually punch through the bubble and I will be happy.

[Hypernaut1]

21 minutes ago, tutzdes said:

If using like 80% of all arsenal is "gimping yourself" you're totally right.

A lot of people here told to likes of you, that nobody wants to "nerf" nullifiers, but people will really appreciate Nullies to be balanced against most setups.

Relax, you can continue to use your Rhinoboltor P and Simulorage and most likely will still out-damage all this pesky sniper rifle, launcher, shotguns, semi-auto and non-naramon melee users.

Again... Gross exaggeration. 80% of our arsenal is not useless against nullys. That's the problem with some of you. 

There are a few weapons at most that have a considerably hard time against nullys. On top of that, we have secondaries and melee. On top of that most of us are usually playing with other players.

[Pr0totype9979]

On August 19, 2016 at 10:16 PM, Legacy_STALKER said:

Hell i would suggest buffing them and sniper crewman something similar with what you did to Ballistas to make players more on there toes :D.

 

Whilst I agree with everything else you said the idea of buffing nullies is complete stupidity. There are effective ways to fight them and they can be a pain, DE would face a lot of hate for that move. Keep nullies how they are and for gods sake don't buff them

[Vyra]

20 hours ago, hammerheathen said:

Actually this was quite untrue in Dune, and there were several good reasons that in that book series (one hell of a classic btw) that shields were mostly limited.

In essence though, the speed of the projectile was what was important, a slower moving projectile would be ignored by the shield. Also lasers would make them explode in a fantastic fashion.

you are missing the poing that the nullifier shield are somewhat a mix of a magnetic field AND some sort of subspace manipulation as they can block "the transference" i.e. you cant activate your operator while in their sphere.

[IX-44]

Nullifiers are flat out "rofl-stomp all powers and either spend half a clip popping my bubble or run into it, cancel all your abilities, and proceed to get stomped on by my Lanka and the 5 Detron Crewmembers and single Corpus Tech standing next to me.

 

 

I'd personally prefer to delete nullifiers and replace them with Combas and Scrambus. Entirely.

 

At least those two can be well countered and still have the "disrupt ability spam" the DEvs were probably looking for.

[IX-44]

86 Primaries, 75 Secondaries.

Numbers in parenthesis notes how many weapon variants there are. Let me know if I missed any!

Also note, this is my opinion on what weapons are good for popping bubbles and what aren't. Not fact nor assumed to be.

PRIMARIES:

Well Performing vs Nullifiers: Boltor (3), Braton (4), Buzlok, Dera (2), Gorgon (3), Grakata (2), Karak (2), Soma (2), Stradavar, Supra, Tetra (2), Ignis, Quanta (2), Synapse, Kohm, Phage, Mutalist Cernos, Attica, Zhuge, Penta (2), Tonkor, Torid, Simulor

Total: 37

Not Well Performing: Burston (3), Grinlok, Harpak, Hind, Latron (3), Mutalist Quanta, Paracyst, Opticor, Sybaris (2), Tiberon, Amprex, Flux Rifle, Glaxion, Boar (2), Convectrix, Drakgoon, Hek (2), Sobek, Strun (3), Tigris (3), Lanka, Rubico, Snipetron (2), Vectis (2), Vulkar (2), Cernos (2), Daikyu, Dread, Paris (3), Miter, Ogris, Panthera

Total: 49

% of Useless Arsenal: 56%

 

SECONDARIES:

Well Performing vs Nullifiers: Azima, Bolto, Cestra, Furis (2), Kulstar, Sonicor, Viper, Kohmak, Afuris (2), Akbolto (2), Aksomati, Akstiletto (2), Akzani, Dual Cestra (2), Staticor, Twin Grakata, Twin Gremlins, Twin Kohmak, Twin Vipers (2), Hikou (2), Pox, Talons

Total: 29

Not Well Performing: Acrid, Angstrum, Ballistica (2), Kraken, Lato (3), Lex (2), Magnus, Marelok (2), Seer, Sicarus, Stug, Tysis, Vasto (2), Atomos, Embolist, Gammacor (2), Nukor, Spectra, Brakk, Bronco (2), Detron (2), Pyrana, Akbronco (2), Akjagara, Aklato, Aklex, Akmagnus, Akvasto, Dual Toxocyst, Castanas (2), Despair, Kunai (2), Spira (2)

Total: 46

% of Useless Arsenal: 61.3%

 

 

GRAND TOTAL: 59%

 

So over half of my Arsenal (along with all 120 Warframe abilities and the 5 Focus abilities currently in-game) is useless against a Nullifier bubble.

EDIT: At least I can use all of those to kill Bursas, Combas, and Scrambus units. And THOSE are more challenging. :P

Edited August 22, 2016 by ChargeBeam

[Zdeadfallout]

Let me tell you, playing Saints Row IV is fun and so does Warframe 

Warframe, a game about being some kind of cyber space ninja with Logic being a single atom in the abyss of hell 

in Warframe, you got powers and of course the warframes, every warframe got his powers, every Warframe got his job 

we got enemies, those enemies are bad guys, those bad guys must Die , some of these enemies are Weak, and others are strong 

When enemies are strong, we use our Powers to stop them.

 

Here Lies The Problem 

We got Nulifiers, those guys prevent you from using powers, one nullifier is Ok 

Now Play on Pluto/Axi Relic Mission (like the high tier old void which is still a thing) 

You got 6 Nullifiers, 4 Corpus Tech, 16 different lovely Ospreys, And One Tenno....ok you officially F!@$ 

 

Now To the Void....

You got Nullifiers keep spawning randomly when doing the relic runs

The Higher the rank, the Stronger they are

The Stronger they are, so Does The Enemies, The Stronger the Enemy, the More chance we are F@$! 

TL;DR

Take a deep breath and think about it Ok 

[SlapClown]

I use a bow 99% time so what i due is run in there and melee them .. The only time there a pain is when 10 of them spawn at the same time .. The spawn system needs to be looked at other than that they are no problem at all 

[hammerheathen]

3 hours ago, Vyra said:

you are missing the poing that the nullifier shield are somewhat a mix of a magnetic field AND some sort of subspace manipulation as they can block "the transference" i.e. you cant activate your operator while in their sphere.

All the more reason that certain types of energy weapons might have a phasic or other... fantastic effect, a la Dune. It absolutely makes sense that high impact or explosive weapons would be gimped against this. As far as weapon defense there really isn't any actual good balance to the shield. I'd love to see bolt weapons and lasers get a buff against it. But that's because I love Dune (I understand we can't have lasers make it go boom)

I've come to decide there are only really three points where nullifiers bug me, 1 is mostly irrelevant since the death of the void.

Situation 1, sniper only corpus sorties. Pretty obvious why that's a pain in the butt. Doable, but poor taste.

Situation 2) mostly irrelevant now, Nully and ancient healing stacking anytime you aren't proccin'g rad. Doesn't happen unless late void, which... isn't worth the bother.

Situation 3) charging a frost bubble. This doesn't bug me that they break the bubble. It bugs me that a sniper unit is CHARGING.