Repolarity = No Mastery Points?

[Nerokerubina]

Using a Forma already has a quite significant benefit - giving your weapons a higher maximum effectiveness.  They're the difference between having the exact mod setup you want versus having to cut corners.  It doesn't need any additional benefit.

 

Thematically, it's inappropriate.  Mastery rank is mastery of the wide variety of frames and weapons available to a Tenno - not mastery of a particular weapon or frame.  Those are covered by item/frame levels.

 

Further, the Mastery system is set up to encourage people to broaden their skillset - try out other weapons, try out other frames.  This change would totally undermine it's purpose, since players could just choose the best frame/weapon and reapetedly farm Formas, never trying out anything else. 

 

It's unneccessary and harmful.

 

Entirely this post, I couldn't have said it better.

[Venexis]

yup like the braton and the lato. i know some people just cycle through them sell them then get a new one rank up sell and repeat.

That's actually incorrect, as far as I've seen, you can only master a weapon once. Selling and rebuying the same weapon will not reward mastery if you've already hit 30 with it.

[MXXVI]

Well the thing is, and I dunno if anybody else has raised this point... but we're kinda dancing around it so I'll say it straight:

 

Without giving any mastery points to forma'd weapons... the mastery system is at least semi-reliant on paying real money.

 

Now, I'm all for supporting DE. I'm proud to say that I've spent plat on slots. But eventually, a player who doesn't have enough slots will be forced to make the choice between buying plat... or losing existing equipment in favour of levelling up new stuff.

 

If we assume that the mastery rank system will receive some love in the future, and more weapons will require mastery ranks (or that there will be other rank-related perks) then the game does begin to drift into slightly dodgy territory: where high ranks are reserved for people who have paid.

[Phatose]

No, High Ranks aren't reserved for people who paid.  Keeping leveled-up equipment and frame is.

 

The Free to play crowd is stuck rotating out frames and equipment.  You get enough plat for another warframe slot and 4 extra weapons slots - enough to keep 2 frames in reserve and 5 weapons while rotating through the others.  Build, level, delete.  It's really not that big a deal when you have enough slots to keep a couple of favorites always available.

[MJ12]

Totally disagree.

 

This idea will open the floodgates for people to pay for Mastery Rank.

 

Mastery to me means mastering ALL things in the game.

 

Leveling the same warframe / weapon repeatedly over and over proves you have mastered NOTHING but a single item in the game.

 

If they want to pay DE 5 bucks and change every day to play this game so they can relevel the same four weapons they always want to use, I don't mind and I don't think DE does either. It'd be a fantastic feature for people who want to dedicate themselves to a single playstyle while not hurting anyone else.

Edited June 24, 2013 by MJ12

[LazerusKI]

Because mastery rank is a measure of mastering DIFFERENT weapons/frames. Raising that by leveling the same thing over, and over is cheating the system.

whats the difference if i level my rifle up, sell and rebuy it, level it up again?

its still the same weapon but i get the mastery points over and over again

[IcarusNine]

So what's the difference between leveling a polarised weapon from 0 to 30, versus selling your weapon, buying a new one, and leveling that weapon from 0 to 30?

[lstalri]

Well the thing is, and I dunno if anybody else has raised this point... but we're kinda dancing around it so I'll say it straight:

 

Without giving any mastery points to forma'd weapons... the mastery system is at least semi-reliant on paying real money.

 

Now, I'm all for supporting DE. I'm proud to say that I've spent plat on slots. But eventually, a player who doesn't have enough slots will be forced to make the choice between buying plat... or losing existing equipment in favour of levelling up new stuff.

 

If we assume that the mastery rank system will receive some love in the future, and more weapons will require mastery ranks (or that there will be other rank-related perks) then the game does begin to drift into slightly dodgy territory: where high ranks are reserved for people who have paid.

I haven't spent a dime on this game (although I do plan on buying the founders pack to get into the design counsel sooner than later) and am currently mastery rank 8, already have everything build that I need in my foundry for mastery rank 9.  And I suspect I can easily get rank 10 without spending any money either.  Your argument is invalid. 

 

 

So what's the difference between leveling a polarised weapon from 0 to 30, versus selling your weapon, buying a new one, and leveling that weapon from 0 to 30?

whats the difference if i level my rifle up, sell and rebuy it, level it up again?

its still the same weapon but i get the mastery points over and over again

The difference is that when you re-buy an item that you have already gained mastery in, you do not, in fact, gain mastery from it again.  You only gain mastery for the first time you level an item from level 0 to 30 (with some exceptions (certain weapons do not give you mastery for the first few levels, generally the easier to access ones)).  Past that you do not gain anymore.  When forma first came out there was a bug where you did get mastery points from re-leveling it, however that has been patched and is no more. 

 

I myself have forma'd my Lanka 5 times so far (remember: I haven't spent any money on this game, so getting forma must not be a huge issue either), and sure, I wouldn't MIND the extra 2.5k'ish mastery I would have gotten from the systems suggested, but making it able to hit 20k's on corpus crewmen/tech's heads (http://puu.sh/3nBat.png) is more than enough reward for me.  You run into the same scenario (the way it gets ridiculously OP) with any other weapon. 

[-Aza-Gorod-]

I haven't spent a dime on this game (although I do plan on buying the founders pack to get into the design counsel sooner than later) and am currently mastery rank 8, already have everything build that I need in my foundry for mastery rank 9.  And I suspect I can easily get rank 10 without spending any money either.  Your argument is invalid. 

 

 

The difference is that when you re-buy an item that you have already gained mastery in, you do not, in fact, gain mastery from it again.  You only gain mastery for the first time you level an item from level 0 to 30 (with some exceptions (certain weapons do not give you mastery for the first few levels, generally the easier to access ones)).  Past that you do not gain anymore.  When forma first came out there was a bug where you did get mastery points from re-leveling it, however that has been patched and is no more. 

 

I myself have forma'd my Lanka 5 times so far (remember: I haven't spent any money on this game, so getting forma must not be a huge issue either), and sure, I wouldn't MIND the extra 2.5k'ish mastery I would have gotten from the systems suggested, but making it able to hit 20k's on corpus crewmen/tech's heads (http://puu.sh/3nBat.png) is more than enough reward for me.  You run into the same scenario (the way it gets ridiculously OP) with any other weapon. 

but what about if you dont level it to 30 just 29 or like with lato and braton just level it to rank 10 sell then rebuy and repeat.

[Yorinar]

That's actually incorrect, as far as I've seen, you can only master a weapon once. Selling and rebuying the same weapon will not reward mastery if you've already hit 30 with it.

Correct.

So what's the difference between leveling a polarised weapon from 0 to 30, versus selling your weapon, buying a new one, and leveling that weapon from 0 to 30?

You have a weapon with modified polarity after the first one, is the only difference.

[fishworshipper]

Totally disagree.

 

This idea will open the floodgates for people to pay for Mastery Rank.

 

Mastery to me means mastering ALL things in the game.

 

Leveling the same warframe / weapon repeatedly over and over proves you have mastered NOTHING but a single item in the game.

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

                                                                                                                                                    - Bruce Lee

[lostinrehab]

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

                                                                                                                                                    - Bruce Lee

I get what you're implying but that is not the point of mastery in this game.

Forma has a purpose and that is to allow you (IF YOU CHOOSE TOO) make your weapon/frame more powerful mod combinations. It does not need a secondary bonus.

[lstalri]

but what about if you dont level it to 30 just 29 or like with lato and braton just level it to rank 10 sell then rebuy and repeat.

I'm inclined to say you won't reach mastery until you complete the rank you have yet to complete yet (because that's how it's supposed to be), however I haven't actually tested this or know of anybody who has.  I have an mk1-bratan in my profile that's only lvl 18, so I can test that for you over the next few weeks (currently busy leveling weapons and will be leaving for Creation on Thursday, so my immediate future is kind of locked up) and let you know.  If it does give mastery, it's most certainly a bug and not meant to be that way. 

[lstalri]

ugh ninja double post whatever

 

I get what you're implying but that is not the point of mastery in this game.

Forma has a purpose and that is to allow you (IF YOU CHOOSE TOO) make your weapon/frame more powerful mod combinations. It does not need a secondary bonus.

This is my stance on it as well, although it couldn't hurt to have the happy medium of gaining 1/2 master per prestige/polarization of the weapon each time you level it up.  This way you gain mastery for "mastering the same kick 10,000 times" as well as mastery for "practicing 10,000 separate kicks"

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

It's clear from how the system was designed that DE has a grand master plan behind the mastery system. The lore dispensed during the mastery graduation levels also supports this thinking. I originally thought to myself "geeze, having to level all t hese different weapons and frames, what a chore!" but each weapon and frame I've tried thus far have surprised me and more importantly, taught me new ways to approach situations.

 

So really OP, get out of your comfort zone already.

[Auseil]

The way i see it, using forma is a way to push your effectiveness just a bit further, for a high price; something you need to think about for a moment instead of just doing the moment your item reches 30, every time.

I DONT think forma'd equipment should give affinity, since that would make it a win-win. You dont forma because you want more mastery, you forma because you want the polarity, if you only care about mastery, then dont forma.

It shouldnt be an easy choice what items to forma, but if you get mastery, even reduced, it really isnt ever a hard decision.

 

I do however like the idea of getting something of a reward, to prevent it from being a complete chore and annoyance (since actually getting the forma isnt really a big deal).

As for the reward itself, it could be many things. Currently, it is the ability to push your weapons into extreme levels of damage, or the ability to perfect your favorite warframe.

I'd like to see something along the lines of cosmetic things, like, forma an item 4 times and you unlock a secondary skin for it, or maybe a blueprint for a skin.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Auseil

[Tekkaman-Blade]

I really hate a lot of weapons in the game. I wish I could just re-level the weapons I like and the frames I like for mastery!

 

Say someone only likes long range weapons and hates shorter range weapons. They want a Lanka. Well even with all the warframes and all the long range weapons, they still wont have the mastery to get that Lanka! What do they have to do? They have to reduce their enjoyment of the game in order to grind to a point where they can get a weapon they want.

 

How is that fair?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Tekkaman-Blade

[Aedwynn]

I really hate a lot of weapons in the game. I wish I could just re-level the weapons I like and the frames I like for mastery!

 

Say someone only likes long range weapons and hates shorter range weapons. They want a Lanka. Well even with all the warframes and all the long range weapons, they still wont have the mastery to get that Lanka! What do they have to do? They have to reduce their enjoyment of the game in order to grind to a point where they can get a weapon they want.

 

How is that fair?

Agree.

What mastery is currently showing? How many items you leveled to 30? And what does that mean?

Your skill with them? No. Your knowlege of game? Not really.

Why is that so important to level all warframes/weapons? Players still prefer certain playstyle, while current system forcing them to leave it to be able to progress at all. This sucks.

[IcarusNine]

Considering the sheer number of weapons and warframes one must level to get to the Lanka, not to mention the resources and forma necessary to build the dojo necessary for clan weapon research, do you really think 'fair' is the intended goal here?  Besides which, this would just be adding Forma as another grind to reach ever higher mastery ranks.

[Auseil]

snip

 

 

snip

 

then you should advocate the implementation of a new system that allows you to gain mastery/other use from using the same weapon. Forma has its purpose and there is a consequence to using it, you are talking about making it a no-brainer, which clearly is not the intent with it.

[Aedwynn]

And it is brain hard decision now? You like weapon? Check. It's lvl 30. Check. Still can't put mod you want? Forma it! It's no brainstorm, man.

[Auseil]

really? if thats the case, then what is the problem? forma is clearly the greatest thing already. Sure, after a certain point using forma is natural, but you sure as hell arent gonna use it first thing on your first lvl 30 warframe, and give up all your power for what, mediocre mods?

 

Let me give you an example, and the reason i havent forma'd my gorgon yet.

I am using a rank 5 serration, rank 5 hellfire, rank 5 cryo rounds, rank 5 piercing hit, rank 3 stormbringer, rank 3 speed trigger, rank 2 ammo drum, and rank 0 fast hands.

I do not own split chamber.

Now, lets say i forma, how valuable is that to me? i will unlock 5 mod capacity by putting hellfire in a polarized slot. That means i can max my stormbringer, speed trigger, and put 1 more rank in serration, but doing that is not worth the releveling of gorgon, and the fusion cores required to make use of those 5 mod capacity.

To use your logic, gorgon is 30, i like it, i cant put the mods i want, so i should forma it? I dont even own the mods i want, I dont even own the fusion cores to level up the mods i already have, and even if i did, it would be more efficient for me to use them on mods for other weapons. In other words no, its not a good idea to forma it. If it gave mastery? sure, why not.

 

My point is, yes, at one point using forma is natural and not really subject to any more consideration. If you add mastery to releveling weapons, you drastically move that point in the wrong direction, you move it to the point where you already seem to feel its at.

I dont know what rank you are, but dont pretend that everybody has logged a million hours.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Auseil

[SnokyoDrift]

Rhetorical question: Why does leveling a new weapon give mastery but leveling an existing one gives nothing at all?

 

At the very least, it should give a reduced amount for your efforts.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[Aedwynn]

Let me give you an example, and the reason i havent forma'd my gorgon yet.

I am using a rank 5 serration, rank 5 hellfire, rank 5 cryo rounds, rank 5 piercing hit, rank 3 stormbringer, rank 3 speed trigger, rank 2 ammo drum, and rank 0 fast hands.

Now, lets say i forma, how valuable is that to me? i will unlock 5 mod capacity by putting hellfire in a polarized slot. That means i can max my stormbringer, speed trigger, and put 1 more rank in serration, but doing that is not worth the releveling of gorgon, and the fusion cores required to make use of those 5 mod capacity.

To use your logic, gorgon is 30, i like it, i cant put the mods i want, so i should forma it? I dont even own the mods i want, I dont even own the fusion cores to level up the mods i already have, and even if i did, it would be more efficient for me to use them on mods for other weapons. In other words no, its not a good idea to forma it. If it gave mastery? sure, why not.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? You have a level 30 weapon, you like it, and you reached limit on mods you can put in. And still you say that relevelling gorgon not worth it?

Why is it not worth it? What do you loose? Even when you have all mods you want you will still have to relevel it. There is no penalties of any kind doing it now or later. But suddenly with Mastery reward you'll do it?

Let's be honest, you're just find it boring to relevel it, that's all. You don't consider that any time you bring it on a mission you waste XP as you didn't formaed it? That formaed weapon will catch up in terms of power faster? That  by time you'll level it again to 30 youll get some mods/cores?

No, you are just unmotivated to do so, and I can assure you as I've been in your shoes even when you get all mods you wan't you still be unmotivated. So, let's not bring personal lack of motivation to do so as argument.

[Phatose]

Agree.

What mastery is currently showing? How many items you leveled to 30? And what does that mean?

Your skill with them? No. Your knowlege of game? Not really.

Why is that so important to level all warframes/weapons? Players still prefer certain playstyle, while current system forcing them to leave it to be able to progress at all. This sucks.

 

A very odd complaint.  The only thing mastery actually does is unlock additional warframes and weapons.  If you have a certain playstyle and want to stick with it....why would mastery matter to you at all? 

 

Either you're interested in mixing things up - in which case switching to other weapons and frames to gain mastery is what you'd want to do anyway - or you don't, in which case unlocking new stuff through mastery is pointless.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Phatose