Ivara

[(XBOX)GeckoGenesis]

What are your personal opinions on Ivara?  Should I replace my Trinity with her?  Please do not tell me to buy more slots.  That is not helpful. 

Also, a question I asked on Players Helping Players that never really got a good answer: 

Should I build an Energy Lab or a Chem Lab? 

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by (XB1)GeckoGenesis

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

1 hour ago, Insizer said:

I really dislike Ivara, she is the only frame that I regret buying. I personally think she is 3/4 finished and dislike how she pigeonholes builds.

To be fair you can say basically the same thing about Loki.  Decoy is pointless at any content beyond level 10 and switch teleport is almost entirely invalidated by parkour.  That leaves him as an invisible frame with an extremely potent ult.

The thing is being invisible is HUGELY powerful if you play properly.  Ivara has that in spades.  Her first is a neat kit of utility (I use sleep arrow more by far than the others) and her 4th is there if you want it. 

Where Loki wins in this battle is with him you can be invisible and still go fast in a game about mobility and fast movement.  To like Ivara you have to accept slowing down.

[MrM1]

If you got the Platinum, buy warframe slots. Replacing a supporter with an offense warframe isn't a good idea for the future.

And if you mean the Dojo labs, then you could start with the ''Energy'' (Corpus) Lab because it is easier to max out. You'll need Fieldron (Corpus drop it) to max out but the ''Chem ''(Infested) Lab needs Mutagen, that is pretty rare, because it appears only in the derelict or on Eris (and it's pretty hard to make it there since the enemies are pretty tough).

[(PSN)Hahzulmun]

You could take at look at the respective wiki sites for energy lab and chemical lab and see if there is anything you want. If yes, you should build it since it's the only way to obtain certain things.

Edited September 27, 2016 by (PS4)Hahzulmun

[(XBOX)freakytiki3]

why replace one with another just buy another warframe slot, also build both labs to which comes first depends on if you like grineer or corpus weapons more.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

I would just buy the slot. And for the lab I'd pick the energy lab especially since they have helios and he's a very helpful sentinel.

[Insizer]

I really dislike Ivara, she is the only frame that I regret buying. I personally think she is 3/4 finished and dislike how she pigeonholes builds. Navigator requires you to use a slow projectile weapon (and is only practical for slow firing, high damage projectile weapons) and, last I checked, it is still buggy. Artemis Bow requires you to use Rifle mod based primaries in order to do more damage. This (combined with Navigator's pigeonhole and preference) means that basically have to go with either launchers or bows... Artemis Bow's charge-up style is also ridiculous. Instead of charging from a horizontal fan (to allow you to quickly fire off close range attacks in case of danger) to pin-point attack (in order to do actual damage at medium+ range) or even from a horizontal fan to a vertical fan they chose to go with charging from a vertical fan to a horizontal one. Noise Arrow is mostly useless unless you only use her for stealth missions (which I will admit she is very good for). Also, her helms are pretty bad imo and she has large un-colorable sections making her harder to color. I am extremely biased against her, but I can say this without bias: she is a niche frame. If you fit her niche then you'll love her, if you don't ... then you might want to find some other frame.

As for Trinity... I don't use her because I find her boring to use. That said, she is probably the most OP char in the game given she generate infinite energy and keep her team alive no matter what (if used by a person somewhat skilled with her).

As for the labs... build both.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GeckoGenesis said:

What are your personal opinions on Ivara?  Should I replace my Trinity with her? 

Also, a question I asked on Players Helping Players that never really got a good answer: 

Should I build an Energy Lab or a Chem Lab? 

 

As others have recommended, buy more slots. Keep them both.

[Insizer]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

To be fair you can say basically the same thing about Loki.  Decoy is pointless at any content beyond level 10 and switch teleport is almost entirely invalidated by parkour.  That leaves him as an invisible frame with an extremely potent ult.

The thing is being invisible is HUGELY powerful if you play properly.  Ivara has that in spades.  Her first is a neat kit of utility (I use sleep arrow more by far than the others) and her 4th is there if you want it. 

Where Loki wins in this battle is with him you can be invisible and still go fast in a game about mobility and fast movement.  To like Ivara you have to accept slowing down.

Not really. Sure Loki has a couple of abilities that are useless for combat, but he doesn't outright pigeonhole builds which is my greatest beef with her. No other frame is that blatantly picky. It is a pathetic joke that you are forced to say "well, I have to use ___ or ___, or else I can't use half 1/4-1/2 of her kit". Loki doesn't care though, he's fine with any weapon you give him. Sure some weapons may be better with Loki than others, but at least you aren't punished for using them.

As for Ivara's first... I'll admit I've seen some people use invis arrows like its no-one's business, sleep arrow is great (almost good enough to be its own ability), and Zipline is fun, but Noise Arrow... I can't say anything remotely good about it. If there is only one enemy then I'll kill them, if there is more than one enemy then I'll sneak past them. Noise Arrow is no better than common sense. Nay, it is worse than common sense as common sense doesn't become useless if the alarms go off.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Ivara is useless because she's not. She's very good at what she does... but almost only at what she does. For me it has nothing to do with "liking to take it slow or not" because I'm fine with taking it slow. I just view her kit as an unfinished cop out. To me she needs to be thrown back into the oven until she is fully cooked before she is allowed to see the light of day again.

[BeastfaB]

5 minutes ago, Insizer said:

Noise Arrow... I can't say anything remotely good about it. If there is only one enemy then I'll kill them, if there is more than one enemy then I'll sneak past them. Noise Arrow is no better than common sense. Nay, it is worse than common sense as common sense doesn't become useless if the alarms go off.

Ever use noise arrow with a silent tonkor to farm focus? ;)

To answer the OP, Ivara is Amazing. Get her however you need to.

As far as the labs go, research what weapons interest you and then make your decision.

[Insizer]

3 minutes ago, BeastfaB said:

Ever use noise arrow with a silent tonkor to farm focus? ;)

No, I can't say I have done that as I focus farm using Ember Prime (yes, I'm that guy) and don't care about energy as I use both Energy Siphon and Zenurik. Good idea though

Edited September 28, 2016 by Insizer

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Insizer said:

No other frame is that blatantly picky. It is a pathetic joke that you are forced to say "well, I have to use ___ or ___, or else I can't use half 1/4-1/2 of her kit".

That's not exactly correct. You can use any weapon you want to with Ivara and still use all of her abilities. You can even use a shotgun. It's just that shotgun mods (only shotgun mods) don't effect her Artemis Bow. Also Navigator works with any projectile. That includes thrown melee weapons. That means two (navigator and noise arrow) of her 7 abilities are niche or situational. That still leaves 5 which is still more than most frames 4.

I understand that you don't like her, but please be a little more accurate. It's your preference to not like Ivara, and it's one I respect.

[Insizer]

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

That's not exactly correct. You can use any weapon you want to with Ivara and still use all of her abilities. You can even use a shotgun. It's just that shotgun mods (only shotgun mods) don't effect her Artemis Bow. Also Navigator works with any projectile. That includes thrown melee weapons. That means two (navigator and noise arrow) of her 7 abilities are niche or situational. That still leaves 5 which is still more than most frames 4.

I understand that you don't like her, but please be a little more accurate. It's your preference to not like Ivara, and it's one I respect.

But I am accurate, mostly. You yourself said that non-projectile weapons cannot be used with Navigator, which rules out the vast majority of weapons right there. As for the shotgun part, yes, that is a more shaky argument (I'll admit it) because Artemis Bow does function if you use shotguns, but it doesn't get any benefit at all, meaning you shouldn't think about using them with Ivara.

As for the argument with thrown melees, yes, I am well aware. If you have 1 of 4 thrown melees (Glaive, Glaive Prime, Kestrel, Cerata) (Halikar doesn't count) you can make Navigator usable. They also make a good weapon to pilot due to their relatively slow speed. However, that only introduces a caveat where you have to use a projectile weapon unless you grab a thrown melee. That doesn't sound much better as it still pigeonholes you.

one last nit that I have to pick: I personally wouldn't count Zipline (and maybe Invis arrow) as being equal to an ability because they both do too little compared to other abilities, even other first abilities. But I digress.

I thank you for your respect, and I respect yours (whatever it may be) as well. I don't like her, but I understand she is very good at what she does and that others love her, and harbor no ill-will towards those who do. She's just not for me (as is) and I was just telling that to OP as he was asking for input about her. Anyways, i look like OP chose the best answer for him, so adios.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Insizer
grammar are hard.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

What other frames do you have? Trinity and Ivara are really different and depending on which other frames you have, you should keep both.

Trinity is an amazing support for energy and survivability. Ivara can stealth, provide CC with her first or damage with her 4th.

Regarding the lab, in the long run you should build both, I personally prefer the weapons in energy lab BUT chem lab has ignis, jat kittag... you will want these weapons in the long run.

 

[(XBOX)GeckoGenesis]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

What other frames do you have? Trinity and Ivara are really different and depending on which other frames you have, you should keep both.

Trinity is an amazing support for energy and survivability. Ivara can stealth, provide CC with her first or damage with her 4th.

Regarding the lab, in the long run you should build both, I personally prefer the weapons in energy lab BUT chem lab has ignis, jat kittag... you will want these weapons in the long run.

 

I've Titania, Nekros, Ash, Frost, Oberon and Volt and I love them all. 

I do like the idea of a stealth frame, but I do enjoy playing support for a squad...

[Anatolius]

I personally really enjoy Ivara. I picked her back up for formaing purposes and her squishiness is compensation by a move pool dedicated to stealth and a massive energy pool. If you like looking cool, pick Ivara for sure. Trinity.. she CAN be fun but you have to play rouge medic and not care about building energy vampire and what not.

 

I personally think like the enemy lab because you can get sone good weapons like the lanka, a sentinel but i think the chem lab has better weapons overall?

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

14 hours ago, Insizer said:

Not really. Sure Loki has a couple of abilities that are useless for combat, but he doesn't outright pigeonhole builds which is my greatest beef with her. No other frame is that blatantly picky. It is a pathetic joke that you are forced to say "well, I have to use ___ or ___, or else I can't use half 1/4-1/2 of her kit". Loki doesn't care though, he's fine with any weapon you give him. Sure some weapons may be better with Loki than others, but at least you aren't punished for using them.

As for Ivara's first... I'll admit I've seen some people use invis arrows like its no-one's business, sleep arrow is great (almost good enough to be its own ability), and Zipline is fun, but Noise Arrow... I can't say anything remotely good about it. If there is only one enemy then I'll kill them, if there is more than one enemy then I'll sneak past them. Noise Arrow is no better than common sense. Nay, it is worse than common sense as common sense doesn't become useless if the alarms go off.

Loki's build flexibility comes from the fact he doesn't care one iota about power strength so you never have to worry about PS mods or the downside to corrupted mods that decrease PS.  That comes from an ancient design philosophy that DE doesn't do any more.   All new frames and all frames that get re-worked (Ember, Saryn, etc) force you to make choices in your build.  This is good.  It creates build diversity.  I play my Saryn as the spore queen but you play yours as a melee toxic lash monster.

With Ivara do you want to prowl or artemis arrow?  That is really not much different than Loki with the choice of perma invisibility or radial disarm.   You really can't maximize both directions on either frame.

How do you think a weapon impacts Ivara that much?  That I don't get.  I slap a hush mod on anything I want and just to to town.

Noise arrow is for grouping enemies.  Great for affinity / focus farms in stealth.  Why would I want to walk all over a tile to kill 5 enemies when I can just use the arrow to bring them to me.  Granted it was even better when I could also blow up half the tile with a hushed tonkor but things that are TOO good tend to not last long before they are "fixed".

The point of all of this is the hope that you give Ivara a second chance.  She's a nice frame and deserves it.

[Insizer]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Loki's build flexibility comes from the fact he doesn't care one iota about power strength so you never have to worry about PS mods or the downside to corrupted mods that decrease PS.  That comes from an ancient design philosophy that DE doesn't do any more.   All new frames and all frames that get re-worked (Ember, Saryn, etc) force you to make choices in your build.  This is good.  It creates build diversity.  I play my Saryn as the spore queen but you play yours as a melee toxic lash monster.

With Ivara do you want to prowl or artemis arrow?  That is really not much different than Loki with the choice of perma invisibility or radial disarm.   You really can't maximize both directions on either frame.

How do you think a weapon impacts Ivara that much?  That I don't get.  I slap a hush mod on anything I want and just to to town.

Noise arrow is for grouping enemies.  Great for affinity / focus farms in stealth.  Why would I want to walk all over a tile to kill 5 enemies when I can just use the arrow to bring them to me.  Granted it was even better when I could also blow up half the tile with a hushed tonkor but things that are TOO good tend to not last long before they are "fixed".

The point of all of this is the hope that you give Ivara a second chance.  She's a nice frame and deserves it.

The modding philosophy of my Loki has nothing persay to do with power strength not being involved. I just run enough duration for Energy Siphon, and now Zenurik, to regen the cost of Loki's invisibility because that is what I aim for on my spy build, I don't build for any other ability. This ability would not involve power strength on any frame. So even it were on a frame which was a damage-caster I would still run duration for the invisibility.

As for the weapon impacts point... I'm not able to grab a shotgun or a non slow firing, slow projectile speed, high damage, projectile primary on Ivara that's my beef. I don't like being virtually restricted to a tonkor cruise missile, a bow, or a thrown melee, that's my issue.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, Insizer said:

As for the weapon impacts point... I'm not able to grab a shotgun or a non slow firing, slow projectile speed, high damage, projectile primary on Ivara that's my beef. I don't like being virtually restricted to a tonkor cruise missile, a bow, or a thrown melee, that's my issue.

All this because you can't use every weapon with Navigator?  But yet has no problem with Loki's Disarm being useless for Infested.  It would be better if you just said you don't like how she looks instead of these other things. 

[Insizer]

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

All this because you can't use every weapon with Navigator?  But yet has no problem with Loki's Disarm being useless for Infested.  It would be better if you just said you don't like how she looks instead of these other things. 

No... I just don't like being pigeonholed. Also, I'm not a fan of launchers and I don't like how the alternative to a launcher is a bow. A bow which will be used by a frame who has a built-in bow. Finally, I don't use Loki often. I mostly use him for spy missions and thus don't need Radial Disarm. 

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

29 minutes ago, Insizer said:

The modding philosophy of my Loki has nothing persay to do with power strength not being involved. I just run enough duration for Energy Siphon, and now Zenurik, to regen the cost of Loki's invisibility because that is what I aim for on my spy build, I don't build for any other ability. This ability would not involve power strength on any frame. So even it were on a frame which was a damage-caster I would still run duration for the invisibility.

As for the weapon impacts point... I'm not able to grab a shotgun or a non slow firing, slow projectile speed, high damage, projectile primary on Ivara that's my beef. I don't like being virtually restricted to a tonkor cruise missile, a bow, or a thrown melee, that's my issue.

Right and no PS requirement means you have a free mod slot, quite possibly two, that you don't have on every other frame that needs PS.   That is what makes the loki build flexible... less mandatory mods.

LOL, navigator is a crap ability that you should just never use.  Not liking a frame because it has one crap ability pretty much cuts out 90% of the frames in the game.  Including Loki who has TWO crap abilities.

[Insizer]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Right and no PS requirement means you have a free mod slot, quite possibly two, that you don't have on every other frame that needs PS.   That is what makes the loki build flexible... less mandatory mods.

LOL, navigator is a crap ability that you should just never use.  Not liking a frame because it has one crap ability pretty much cuts out 90% of the frames in the game.  Including Loki who has TWO crap abilities.

1. I will say this again, not having to mod PS has nothing to do with my Loki build because the ability in question would never rely on PS to begin with.  I basically never mod PS aside from an Intensify mod... sometimes. So to be honest, for me Loki is no more flexible than my other frame builds. On top of that I don't build duration because I can't build PS rather because duration is the only thing related to the ability which I care about. On top of that, if I were to use Ivara for spy missions then I'd mod her for duration as well to take advantage of the lower Prowl energy drain so the entire point you are trying to make is mute to begin with, LOL. Loki has nothing to do with my dislike for Ivara at all. 
2. Have you been reading what I've been typing? Navigator is not my only beef. I do not know why I've had to repeat this again and again .I find Artemis Bow to be bad as well because it also pigeonholes builds and because it's charging style was terribly thought out as well. So for me Ivara not only has 1-2 bad abilities but she pigeonholes builds as well. Look, I'm fine with a frame having 1 bad abilities (maybe even 2), if it is due to stats and such and at least do something. What bugs me to the point of wanting to sell her is that the reason for her Navigator and Artemis Bow (mostly Navigator) being bad is arbitrary and ridiculous. I could have (and have) designed a better versions of those two abilities.

So please, spare me the misdirected ridicule.

I understand that Ivara is good at what she does, and respect the opinions of those who love her. I however am not one who loves her. Believe me, I've tried, I spent 3 or so days using only her when I was playing. I view her the way I do (as incomplete) because of my experiences from that..

I'm going to stop responding at this point because this has gotten pointless. OP has chosen the best answer for him, so keeping this up serves no purpose but keeping an answered question up on the front page for the sake of confusing Players Helping Player with General Discussion

[BeastfaB]

5 hours ago, Insizer said:

As for the weapon impacts point... I'm not able to grab a shotgun or a non slow firing, slow projectile speed, high damage, projectile primary on Ivara that's my beef.

I realize you said you weren't going to reply but I wanted to point something out to you.

Silent Battery mod. I roll with a Tigris in prowl all the time.

Happy hunting.

[DatDarkOne]

53 minutes ago, BeastfaB said:

Silent Battery mod. I roll with a Tigris in prowl all the time.

Happy hunting.

The cool part is you don't really lose any damage for the mod because of Prowl's headshot multiplier. Hehe

Edited September 29, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction in spelling

[(XBOX)kidkingston]

Personally I don't think they are comparable.They might both be support, but Ivara is a stealth frame as well. Maybe choose another frame to replace, because Ivara is insanely useful for spy and even (sort of) sabotage missions. Honestly Trinity vs Ivara comes down to team VS solo play.