Weapon slots addition for Damage 3.0

[Darksouls40k]

One of the most important things hitting warframe this year is prob gonna be Damage 3.0 !!!

This makes it the ideal time to present suggestions to weapons changes !!!

Overall i think that the most important point to leave here is that they need to add slots with conditions to avoid the sense of ever growing useless mods.

I want to underline to add slots and not simply put conditions on the already existing slots cause adding more slots gives a sense of evolution and accomplishment to the player. Ofc this will add more variables/more work to DE balancing issues but that is why it has to be done with damage 3.0

Example:

1- Add a bane mod only slot:

You might say oh this is just another damage mod why do it ? This isn´t about numbers/they need more damage... These bane mods, the concept/identity of choosing a faction to fight against works so well in this weapon design that every weapon should have one slot just 4 them...

2-Add a utility mod slot that lets u put in a mod that reduces reloading time, ammo mutation, increases ammo capacity, mods that increase aoe like firestorm for ignis and so on... This would make us use more mods from categories that atleast for me arent very used and in a game with ever growing increase in mods would be very well received !!!

How these extra slots would work, if they would give some extra mod points or not and above all impact on gameplay is alot of work but DE working on damage 3.0 so there is no better time to discuss this :) !!!

What u think about these additions ?

Edited October 22, 2016 by Darksouls40k
Better explanation and examples

[Katinka]

27 minutes ago, Darksouls40k said:

One of the most important things hitting warframe this year is prob gonna be Damage 3.0 !!!

I doubt Damage 3.0 is coming this year.

When it comes to utility mods, I put them in weapons I think need them to be comfortable to use.  If it has a Reload time of 3 seconds or longer I'll mod for Reload Speed.  If it's a charged weapon, I'll add Fire Rate until I fill comfortable with the charge time (fire the Opticor that took ALL the Fire Rate mods!)  I don't worry so much about trying to do the most damage possible because, frankly, most of the time that's overkill.  Outside of Sorties or Endurance challenge misisons (for which I tend to use specifically customized loadouts anyway), you don't have to push it to the limits and try to reach the highest level enemies possible.  Rein it in a bit, less overkill, it'll open up the lower level content as places you can have fun again with weapons that feel comfortable to use without being boringly overkill and it'll save you a ton of credits and resources with all the Restores you wont need to use.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Oh look, MOOOOOAR power!!! I need it...........no, not really.

I would like more power for the enemies though, other than the standard "just increase their hp and damage".

[Sziklamester]

If they implement a damage 3.0 then that will mean they will reduce the mod slots because they should avoid the powercreep somehow. If the gamae mods and other mandatory mods will be removed then other mods will going there and take the places but the damage output still remain the same because of the weapon level ups you gain back the lost damage. If the slots remain in the current states then we can be more powerful because we given literally with it 2-3 free slot and free damage and choice to add other mods on the table so overall that will be more powercreep.

I am not agree the removal of the mods because removing is always bad idea from the table because these are works well against the current system and a lot of time-energy spent there to max these mods.

My suggestion is harder because the problem itself the modding system which has flaws and not give you enough freedom of costumization. They should stay in the current and work on a possible mod solution / rebalance or completely remove the modding system and go back to the skill tree system which is literally now the focus but without the weapon-warframe-companion stat modifiers. Personally I would like if they add a skill tree like diablo or path of exile like skill tree which grants you a lot of combination and you can characterize your avatars more freely. More easy to make limits on maximalized builds and better for making more variation.

Currently the mod system just gives you the option to deal more damage or a little bit utilize better you stats/stuffs but it has limits and often you need to sacrifice a mod for other and a tons of mods has no real use.

If they still wish to go with the modding system then they need separate the slots into 3 type 1 for damage 1 for utility 1 for raw stats like vitality-redirection etc.

[Sziklamester]

9 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Oh look, MOOOOOAR power!!! I need it...........no, not really.

I would like more power for the enemies though, other than the standard "just increase their hp and damage".

You are looking for a Better AI which can make better strategies and tactic against us.

[lukinu_u]

6 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

If they implement a damage 3.0 then that will mean they will reduce the mod slots because they should avoid the powercreep somehow. If the gamae mods and other mandatory mods will be removed then other mods will going there and take the places but the damage output still remain the same because of the weapon level ups you gain back the lost damage. If the slots remain in the current states then we can be more powerful because we given literally with it 2-3 free slot and free damage and choice to add other mods on the table so overall that will be more powercreep.

I am not agree the removal of the mods because removing is always bad idea from the table because these are works well against the current system and a lot of time-energy spent there to max these mods.

My suggestion is harder because the problem itself the modding system which has flaws and not give you enough freedom of costumization. They should stay in the current and work on a possible mod solution / rebalance or completely remove the modding system and go back to the skill tree system which is literally now the focus but without the weapon-warframe-companion stat modifiers. Personally I would like if they add a skill tree like diablo or path of exile like skill tree which grants you a lot of combination and you can characterize your avatars more freely. More easy to make limits on maximalized builds and better for making more variation.

Currently the mod system just gives you the option to deal more damage or a little bit utilize better you stats/stuffs but it has limits and often you need to sacrifice a mod for other and a tons of mods has no real use.

If they still wish to go with the modding system then they need separate the slots into 3 type 1 for damage 1 for utility 1 for raw stats like vitality-redirection etc.

Remove the mod system and replace it by a skillt tree ?
NO.

This is one of things that make warframe unique.

[Sziklamester]

12 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Remove the mod system and replace it by a skillt tree ?
NO.

This is one of things that make warframe unique.

This one make powercreep not uniquity.

[aligatorno]

27 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

This one make powercreep not uniquity.

And what exactly makes powercreep so bad in a game that is 99% about PVE and COOP, especially when enemies tend to 1shot most frames that are not tanky at higher levels? Why nerf good weapons into the ground instead of giving the rest a chance to catch up to them? 

 

What Warframe needs right now is a serious rebalancing of older weapons that stand no chance to newer ones instead of making all the time and resources people put in making their weapon the best it could be useless, and a serious rework of how the enemies scale and their AI. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by aligatorno

[Firetempest]

Remove pure damage boost mods that have no drawbacks. Remove elemental pure damage boosts and turn it into converting a % of already present damage to elemental.

So  adding ice mod to say a pure ice gun has no effect.

Make multi shot use more ammo or effect mag size.

Make armor useful even if you don't have 400+. But have it effect mobility

Make maxing emergy effect max shields.

Make shields effect something

It should be a balancing act to find what you're comfortable with.

More weapon specific mods that change its fire effects like the new tetra one.

Faction damage boosts should decrease damage to the other 2 factions.

Reimburse people credits and endo for the mods that are purged

Edited October 22, 2016 by Firetempest

[Darksouls40k]

37 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

If they still wish to go with the modding system then they need separate the slots into 3 type 1 for damage 1 for utility 1 for raw stats like vitality-redirection etc.

 

I completely agree with you on this, separate slot types is a must, i think this is the best solution i have heard of, instead of the current system that makes non damage mods be left outside too many times. DE if you reading this is something u should take note of !!!

As for the rest u said:

I am not seeing them reducing slots at all, they want to add to the farm pile not diminish it, if anything they would be adding slots...

 The chances of disposing of this mod system its prob less than winning the euromillions ^^ that never gonna happen...

Putting a weapon tree system on top of the mod system is a bad idea, its just too many layers on top of each other, i think that would just be bad Design

The powercreep u mention is part of this game DNA as well as a ton of other major AAA titles so that is part of the core design not gonna change...

 

[Darksouls40k]

11 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

Remove pure damage boost mods that have no drawbacks. Remove elemental pure damage boosts and turn it into converting a % of already present damage to elemental.

So  adding ice mod to say a pure ice gun has no effect.

Make multi shot use more ammo

More weapon specific mods that change its fire effects like the new tetra one.

I understood your system which I think is totally a valid one but proposing to remove the pure damage boosts goes so against the design of whats on DE table that those type of changes will be shot down on sight/wont have legs to walk on from my perspective...

Making multishot use more ammo is just bad design, you just making multishot = firerate... makes no sense for me

[Sziklamester]

9 minutes ago, Darksouls40k said:

I completely agree with you on this, separate slot types is a must, i think this is the best solution i have heard of, instead of the current system that makes non damage mods be left outside too many times. DE if you reading this is something u should take note of !!!

As for the rest u said:

I am not seeing them reducing slots at all, they want to add to the farm pile not diminish it, if anything they would be adding slots...

 The chances of disposing of this mod system its prob less than winning the euromillions ^^ that never gonna happen...

Putting a weapon tree system on top of the mod system is a bad idea, its just too many layers on top of each other, i think that would just be bad Design

The powercreep u mention is part of this game DNA as well as a ton of other major AAA titles so that is part of the core design not gonna change...

 

True but many peoples crying the game is too easy to them others cry against because they feel this is fun to them others just don't care. I am on for more mod slot need to keep up the race with the current and future mods which coming but if they remove something they need compensate us and if they do this as I mentionned as possibly solution then they should reduce mod slots.

Don't argue with one with me guys not I am the DE and if you played long enough the game then you know DE never add extras without drawbacks because it is their philosophy to add drawbacks no matter if a stuff is utterly bad or outperform the entire arsenal.

 

And nope, actually not a bad idea because DE when started this game they used skill-mod tree system but they implemented it badly then they decided to change to this system which has a flaws from the beginning.

Also there are a tons of good examples how can they add skill tree systems into the game which make us stronger but not op and still enjoyable the game with normal challenge.

Many peoples crying because this is not a skill based game and the mod system is totally not support this because you cannot survive long enough on high levels to show how skilled player you are.

Personally I see this game just a go and kill something game and skill is which last represented here. Subjective but for me the skill mean what moves you can do while you play and how careful you are. Can you sense if something bad happening and can response to the various problems what happening during missions.

Currently the parkour part the only which works I like to shot down enemies with my bows in various types of parkour moves. The game currently cannot give much more in this part.

 

The current mod system could work if they add slots to use but split them into categories and you can just put that mod there nothing more. Also they need to balance the stuffs around the game once for all and finish the scaling which is necessary if they want to us to go high levels and be viable. Abilities and weapons is very dependant on our mods and not on our skills and ability to avoid. The AI also not so good so basicaly you just go and slice them because they cannot use traps well or knock down us only in annoying ways. 

 

DE often use bandaid solutions like this vacuum recently instead of making it passive which is fine because no need a slot and was an acceptable drawback with the 5 meter. Sentinels also lacks of new weapons and their survivability is very low.

[Firetempest]

19 minutes ago, Darksouls40k said:

I understood your system which I think is totally a valid one but proposing to remove the pure damage boosts goes so against the design of whats on DE table that those type of changes will be shot down on sight/wont have legs to walk on from my perspective...

Making multishot use more ammo is just bad design, you just making multishot = firerate... makes no sense for me

They can do pure damage with actual gun level. Not mods. It's not a real choice. If you have serration you are going to add it.

Fine how about multishot effecting mag size.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Firetempest

[Sziklamester]

47 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

And what exactly makes powercreep so bad in a game that is 99% about PVE and COOP, especially when enemies tend to 1shot most frames that are not tanky at higher levels? Why nerf good weapons into the ground instead of giving the rest a chance to catch up to them? 

 

What Warframe needs right now is a serious rebalancing of older weapons that stand no chance to newer ones instead of making all the time and resources people put in making their weapon the best it could be useless, and a serious rework of how the enemies scale and their AI. 

I am on the buff and tweak everything which is not as good as the meta units because those are balanced and designed well. Those frames with low armor or bad usage could be better if they tweak them and not just touch them minor and do nothing significant like the old time weapons and frames.  I am agree with you on this but you know the hard try community and DE and their philosophy of making things. They can give us unbalanced stuffs sometimes bad sometimes op but they think that everything needs a drawback.

 

In this one I see the point if they remove the mandatory mods to add space and chance to the garbage mods then they remove slots because the damage built in the weapons and the ability is added to the frames without need a slot so they will add drawbacks and in this case remove slots.

 

My suggestion is the skill tree or balance mods better and add more variety on the table.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Sziklamester

[Darksouls40k]

1 hour ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Oh look, MOOOOOAR power!!! I need it...........no, not really.

I would like more power for the enemies though, other than the standard "just increase their hp and damage".

I think u totally missed the point... I dont want damage 2.0+2 new slots... I suggest 2 new slots that only lets you put in specific mods/types of mods so certain mods dont feel so useless... From my perspective you are increasing farming needed since you use more mods so DE will like that, and we as players will feel like the system changing and evolving and using more mods so you will feel better so its win win...

About enemies, in my perspective that is closely linked to pvp also being very weak in this game, the game design just doesnt work for that, and DE wont one day wake up and say lets convert this game into a totally different beast ...

[Sziklamester]

2 minutes ago, Darksouls40k said:

I think u totally missed the point... I dont want damage 2.0+2 new slots... I suggest 2 new slots that only lets you put in specific mods/types of mods so certain mods dont feel so useless... From my perspective you are increasing farming needed since you use more mods so DE will like that, and we as players will feel like the system changing and evolving and using more mods so you will feel better so its win win...

About enemies, in my perspective that is closely linked to pvp also being very weak in this game, the game design just doesnt work for that, and DE wont one day wake up and say lets convert this game into a totally different beast ...

Like how augments should be built on warframes (you can use 2 on each frame) and like resistances could be turn into passives. For this need stats for resistance mods and stat for damage reduction.

[Darksouls40k]

57 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

Don't argue with one with me guys not I am the DE and if you played long enough the game then you know DE never add extras without drawbacks because it is their philosophy to add drawbacks no matter if a stuff is utterly bad or outperform the entire arsenal.

No one wants to have the massive task of having to  tweak all those damage/enemy numbers, but were talking about DAMAGE 3.0, chances are they are going to be tweaking those numbers ALOT so adding extras without drawbacks is totally a possibility in my perspective, if it were just some minor changes they wouldnt call it damage 3.0...