Prime Vault accessories need to change.

[CaptainShortbus]

So, what do you bet they're going to be pulling a Misa / Targis money grab again and resell old EXCLUSIVE items? I'm really hoping that Misa Prime and Targis Prime were re-released ONLY because they were behind such a massive investment originally (which in a sense makes it even less acceptable), and that Pyra Prime isn't simply going to be up for sale because they can't be bothered to design cool new accessories.

I'm seriously not impressed. I never minded spending money on this game, but now when they choose to spit in the face of old Prime Access supporters rather than design equally cool, new accessories to release with the Prime Vault, it really discourages loyal supporters from ever spending money on this game again. The biggest reason people wanted those prime accessories in the first place is because they were simply the coolest ones ever available, but by designing new accessories on the same tier, DE could avoid losing grasp on some of the biggest supporters of the game, while also providing ALL players with a set of cool new accessories to buy. All of this of course is completely disregarding the existing Prime Vault issue of having to buy the frames if you want the accessories, but I don't believe that is even remotely on the same level of betrayal as the issue I outlined in this post.

I'm not usually one to post on the forums, but since DE seems to care more about money than anything else right now, I'd like to speak for a pretty nonvocal minority of players and voice concern over this. Please, even if this doesn't directly apply to you, help it to become visible. These decisions set a really dangerous precedent for the health of the game.

[NovusNova]

Newer players missed the old accessories, Prime Vault gives them a chance to get them. Don't really see a problem with them having a chance at stuff that has been exclusive to some people for 2/3 years, they will have to pay real money for the accessories, same as people did when they were in Prime Access.

Prime Access gives us the new accessories.

[Noobverest]

12 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

So, what do you bet they're going to be pulling a Misa / Targis money grab again and resell old EXCLUSIVE items? I'm really hoping that Misa Prime and Targis Prime were re-released ONLY because they were behind such a massive investment originally (which in a sense makes it even less acceptable), and that Pyra Prime isn't simply going to be up for sale because they can't be bothered to design cool new accessories.

I'm seriously not impressed. I never minded spending money on this game, but now when they choose to spit in the face of old Prime Access supporters rather than design equally cool, new accessories to release with the Prime Vault, it really discourages loyal supporters from ever spending money on this game again. The biggest reason people wanted those prime accessories in the first place is because they were simply the coolest ones ever available, but by designing new accessories on the same tier, DE could avoid losing grasp on some of the biggest supporters of the game, while also providing ALL players with a set of cool new accessories to buy. All of this of course is completely disregarding the existing Prime Vault issue of having to buy the frames if you want the accessories, but I don't believe that is even remotely on the same level of betrayal as the issue I outlined in this post.

I'm not usually one to post on the forums, but since DE seems to care more about money than anything else right now, I'd like to speak for a pretty nonvocal minority of players and voice concern over this. Please, even if this doesn't directly apply to you, help it to become visible. These decisions set a really dangerous precedent for the health of the game.

Why don't you just buy plat and buy all the vaulted stuff off players?

[SurrealEdge]

It's exclusive to Prime Access, even in their FAQ, it's mentioned that those could be brought back into rotation at a later date.

When they're clear about there, I don't see any reason to make a fuss about it. Only issue I see is that you need to purchase them together with the frame and weapons that were vaulted.

[CaptainShortbus]

2 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Newer players missed the old accessories, Prime Vault gives them a chance to get them. Don't really see a problem with them having a chance at stuff that has been exclusive to some people for 2/3 years.

Prime Access gives us the new accessories.

The problem here is that they should not be re-releasing the accessories that they explicitly said were exclusive. I have no problem with them re-releasing prime access items if they weren't sold under the false pretense of not being available in the future. The same logic here can be applied to Excalibur Prime:

I came too late for Excalibur Prime, so therefore shouldn't I be given a shot? 

[NovusNova]

3 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

The problem here is that they should not be re-releasing the accessories that they explicitly said were exclusive. I have no problem with them re-releasing prime access items if they weren't sold under the false pretense of not being available in the future. The same logic here can be applied to Excalibur Prime:

I came too late for Excalibur Prime, so therefore shouldn't I be given a shot? 

"WILL THE EXCLUSIVE ITEMS BE AVAILABLE IN-GAME AFTER A NEW PACK IS AVAILABLE?

No. The Exclusive items in Prime Access are Exclusive to the Prime Access and Prime Vault Programs. You may see them rotated within the Programs but they will not be made available in-game"

From: https://warframe.com/prime-access-faq

They are stated to be exclusive to both Prime Access and Prime Vault, therefore there is nothing "false" or "misleading" with what they are doing here.

Excalibur Prime is different as it was stated to only ever be in the founder packs and was promised to never return in any format.

[BAY35]

2 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

The problem here is that they should not be re-releasing the accessories that they explicitly said were exclusive. I have no problem with them re-releasing prime access items if they weren't sold under the false pretense of not being available in the future. The same logic here can be applied to Excalibur Prime:

I came too late for Excalibur Prime, so therefore shouldn't I be given a shot? 

Absolutely not. As @SurrealEdge has already stated, their FAQ points out that those items could be brought back at a later date. Excalibur Prime/Founder's Exclusives were EXPLICITLY advertised as never being available again. Prime Accessories do not have this disclaimer. 

[CaptainShortbus]

4 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

"WILL THE EXCLUSIVE ITEMS BE AVAILABLE IN-GAME AFTER A NEW PACK IS AVAILABLE?

No. The Exclusive items in Prime Access are Exclusive to the Prime Access and Prime Vault Programs. You may see them rotated within the Programs but they will not be made available in-game"

From: https://warframe.com/prime-access-faq

They are stated to be exclusive to both Prime Access and Prime Vault, therefore there is nothing "false" or "misleading" with what they are doing here.

Excalibur Prime is different as it was stated to only ever be in the founder packs and was promised to never return in any format.

I understand that's what the current FAQ says, and I've read it, but the Prime Vault didn't exist anywhere near the time of these packs being available. Do you happen to have the FAQ at the time of these prime access packs? It literally couldn't have mentioned Prime Vault, and it shouldn't be retroactive.

[Reidmaster]

7 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

I understand that's what the current FAQ says, and I've read it, but the Prime Vault didn't exist anywhere near the time of these packs being available. Do you happen to have the FAQ at the time of these prime access packs? It literally couldn't have mentioned Prime Vault, and it shouldn't be retroactive.

The original FAQ never mentioned the Vault (obviously), but it did say that the stuff could come back in Prime Access. The thing here is that the Vault is an extension of Prime Access. So there is no issue.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Reidmaster

[CaptainShortbus]

2 minutes ago, Reidmaster said:

The original FAQ never mentioned the Vault (obviously), but it did say that the stuff could come back in Prime Access. The thing here is that the Vault is an extension of Prime Access. So there is no issue.

But it's really not. It could be considered similar, but re-selling old items, and providing packs of new items are completely different - just look at the common view of the Prime Vault vs. Prime Access.

[Aeruhat]

I'd rather them split the accessories and the frames into separate packages, so that way those who farmed up the frames and weapons but didn't have money to get prime access at the time would get another shot at getting the other things they missed previously.

Hey, Tennos like us can dream.

[Reidmaster]

8 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

But it's really not. It could be considered similar, but re-selling old items, and providing packs of new items are completely different - just look at the common view of the Prime Vault vs. Prime Access.

From the FAQ:

WHAT IS PRIME VAULT?

Prime Vault is an extension of the Prime Access program. Prime Vault is a limited-time only, rotating program reintroducing previously retired Prime Warframes and Prime Gear available as a bundle with discounted Platinum.

IS THIS PRIME ACCESS?

This program is an extension of the Prime Access program providing access to previously released Prime Gear from Prime Access. Prime Vault does not affect past or future Prime Access programs

Edited November 19, 2016 by Reidmaster

[CaptainShortbus]

2 minutes ago, Reidmaster said:

From the FAQ:

WHAT IS PRIME VAULT?

Prime Vault is an extension of the Prime Access program. Prime Vault is a limited-time only, rotating program reintroducing previously retired Prime Warframes and Prime Gear available as a bundle with discounted Platinum.

Re-read my post and pretend you're in the shoes of someone who was reading the FAQ back when the packs were available. Yes it's currently defined as an extension by DE, but most people wouldn't have considered it similar if they were shown the 2 systems back then. That's the real issue I'm trying to point out here. Yes, the FAQ says this. But what if tomorrow the FAQ said that Prime Farm™ was an extension of Prime Access and you could get prime accessories off of Captain Vor? It would still be retroactive, even if it wasn't defined for people who bought the pack today. It's really not an acceptable way of doing things.

[CaptainShortbus]

I'm not going to single anyone out here, but if anyone has a screenshot / archive of the prime access FAQ before Nova Prime (or the vault) was released, please post it. I'm going off of what I recall when I first read it. 

[CipherXV]

38 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

The problem here is that they should not be re-releasing the accessories that they explicitly said were exclusive. I have no problem with them re-releasing prime access items if they weren't sold under the false pretense of not being available in the future. The same logic here can be applied to Excalibur Prime:

I came too late for Excalibur Prime, so therefore shouldn't I be given a shot? 

Honestly this sense of Elitism really isn't necessary. It is just a shiny virtual item, it doesnt define who you are. The only reason I have respect for founders like Excalibur Prime and the other stuff that came along with it. That is because they were there in the beginning and believed in the game enough to invest when they needed it most. The game is now financially stable and anything released in Prime Access should be available for new players. Nobody should be behind a exclusive only wall just because they never heard of Warframe and came late to the game. Anyone willing to give their hard cold money to support the game is okay in my book.

 

(Just want to say to reitterate Founders are the only group that deserve their exclusivity when it comes to the game)

[Reidmaster]

4 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

Re-read my post and pretend you're in the shoes of someone who was reading the FAQ back when the packs were available.

I did read them pre-Vault, I understood that there was a chance that they could come back, and they have under a new program which is an extension of the old program. It doesn't matter if you think they are similar, DE has stated that it is still part of that program.

 

Also, why does it matter if other people are able to spend their real money (not plat) to get these items? The whole "it's exclusive" argument is dumb. They are still exclusive, but now more people can get them (for a limited time). Plus, DE is a business. They need to make money somehow, and it just doesn't make sense to have assets that they can never use again (except the Founders gear, that does make sense).

[Xekrin]

@CaptainShortbus Just curious, are you saying you'd have never purchased a prime access if you had known years ago, up front, that they may be available again two or three years later?  Because frankly, that's rather silly.  You are literally arguing over nothing.  Exclusivity means that they are purchase only, I have not and probably will never see any Prime Accessories because I cannot afford them.  That is pretty gosh darned exclusive if you ask me. 

Other than Founders pack, which they clearly stated would NEVER be offered again, up front right then and there, I've not seen any proof that they swore never to release prime access stuff once retired as prime vault.  

Fact is I was actually there when they first introduced prime vault and before they did so, everyone constantly asked if retired primes would ever return, the answer was always yes, long before prime vault existed.

I simply don't understand your complaint here, you are mad others get to buy stuff you already bought?  They aren't giving them out for free which is the only real way to break this exclusive promise you are so hot about.

[Xekrin]

44 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

"WILL THE EXCLUSIVE ITEMS BE AVAILABLE IN-GAME AFTER A NEW PACK IS AVAILABLE?

You really should just lock this thread, it will go no where good.

[(PSN)BigVinZ007]

How do you have a trinity prime avatar if you never spent money on the game?

[CaptainShortbus]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

@CaptainShortbus Just curious, are you saying you'd have never purchased a prime access if you had known years ago, up front, that they may be available again two or three years later?  Because frankly, that's rather silly.  You are literally arguing over nothing.  Exclusivity means that they are purchase only, I have not and probably will never see any Prime Accessories because I cannot afford them.  That is pretty gosh darned exclusive if you ask me. 

Other than Founders pack, which they clearly stated would NEVER be offered again, up front right then and there, I've not seen any proof that they swore never to release prime access stuff once retired as prime vault.  

Fact is I was actually there when they first introduced prime vault and before they did so, everyone constantly asked if retired primes would ever return, the answer was always yes, long before prime vault existed.

I simply don't understand your complaint here, you are mad others get to buy stuff you already bought?  They aren't giving them out for free which is the only real way to break this exclusive promise you are so hot about.

If I knew they weren't actually going to be exclusive, I probably wouldn't have spent the extra money, to be completely honest. I have been here long before prime vault.

Requiring money != Exclusive.

6 minutes ago, Reidmaster said:

I did read them pre-Vault, I understood that there was a chance that they could come back, and they have under a new program which is an extension of the old program. It doesn't matter if you think they are similar, DE has stated that it is still part of that program.

 

Also, why does it matter if other people are able to spend their real money (not plat) to get these items? The whole "it's exclusive" argument is dumb. They are still exclusive, but now more people can get them (for a limited time). Plus, DE is a business. They need to make money somehow, and it just doesn't make sense to have assets that they can never use again (except the Founders gear, that does make sense).

Because they were sold under the guise of not being available again (exclusive). Read my reply above, requiring money doesn't mean it's exclusive. I understand they need to make money, and I'm not 100% bashing Prime Vault because I understand that. I'm bashing the fact that they have to resort to re-selling old items that were sold under the guise of being exclusive, simply because they don't feel like creating new items.

I understand where both of you are coming from, but if you had spent this much money on packs to get these items, and saw them return under a program that wasn't even theorized when you bought them, I imagine you would be upset too.

[CaptainShortbus]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BigVinZ007 said:

How do you have a trinity prime avatar if you never spent money on the game?

...Literally spending money was a reason I made this thread.

[CipherXV]

1 minute ago, CaptainShortbus said:

If I knew they weren't actually going to be exclusive, I probably wouldn't have spent the extra money, to be completely honest. I have been here long before prime vault.

Requiring money != Exclusive.

Because they were sold under the guise of not being available again (exclusive). Read my reply above, requiring money doesn't mean it's exclusive. I understand they need to make money, and I'm not 100% bashing Prime Vault because I understand that. I'm bashing the fact that they have to resort to re-selling old items that were sold under the guise of being exclusive, simply because they don't feel like creating new items.

I understand where both of you are coming from, but if you had spent this much money on packs to get these items, and saw them return under a program that wasn't even theorized when you bought them, I imagine you would be upset too.

 

Well, now you know not to buy Prime Access since this has been such a damaging experience to you. There are 1,000 online games that works the way you want. Perhaps they deserve your services more.

[Reidmaster]

9 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

I understand where both of you are coming from, but if you had spent this much money on packs to get these items, and saw them return under a program that wasn't even theorized when you bought them, I imagine you would be upset too.

Except that I wouldn't be upset, I don't mind if someone is able to buy a thing that I was able to get a year or two earlier. And like many people have already posted, they (DE) stated that they could eventually return (this was in the original FAQ). There was no guise of not being available again, so I really don't see the issue.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Reidmaster

[MagPrime]

DE was pretty clear that they reserved for the right to re-release those items at a later time.

Since I am not in the habit of screenshotting the fine print on everything in the off chance that someone didn't read it and demands proof, I cannot prove to you that they did put that clause in the fine print. All I can say is that it was there and you missed it.

 

[CaptainShortbus]

16 minutes ago, CipherXV said:

Honestly this sense of Elitism really isn't necessary. It is just a shiny virtual item, it doesnt define who you are. The only reason I have respect for founders like Excalibur Prime and the other stuff that came along with it. That is because they were there in the beginning and believed in the game enough to invest when they needed it most. The game is now financially stable and anything released in Prime Access should be available for new players. Nobody should be behind a exclusive only wall just because they never heard of Warframe and came late to the game. Anyone willing to give their hard cold money to support the game is okay in my book.

 

(Just want to say to reitterate Founders are the only group that deserve their exclusivity when it comes to the game)

You completely contradicted yourself there. On the scale of development of the game, Ember Prime was very early as well, and paying $140 for a Prime Access bundle was a big deal.

6 minutes ago, CipherXV said:

Well, now you know not to buy Prime Access since this has been such a damaging experience to you. There are 1,000 online games that works the way you want. Perhaps they deserve your services more.

Good to know you feel that way.