Cernos Prime Feedback

[hukurokuju5]

24 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

Man. This weapon has really brought to light how confused people get by multishot and weapon card stats. EVERY weapon with split chamber does about half the damage per pellet of what the card says, because multishot doubles the damage shown on the card to account for the expected increase from more projectiles. But now this weapon comes out and people are acting like it's a new phenomenon.

(Though not exactly half and double, of course, since split chamber is 90% multishot)

the problem is the spread plus super low firerate and reload.

compared to shotguns, Cernos P cant even compete

Edited November 27, 2016 by hukurokuju5

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 minutes ago, hukurokuju5 said:

the problem is the spread plus super low firerate and reload.

compared to shotguns, Cernos P cant even compete

Yeah, on consoles I'm just wrapping my head on whether to put a Primed Fast Hands on it with Vile Acceleration, or Speed Trigger and Vile Acceleration.

We didn't get the TWW patch and Riven mods, so we have to compensate.

A maxed out Heavy Caliber is certainly a requirement imo since there is no notable accuracy decrease with the spread, at least until Riven mods become a thing for us.

[Xebov]

1 hour ago, (XB1)InfernusXcanis said:

it's a very difficult bow to work with.

Its impossible to do. Compared to the Rakta Cernos the Cernos Prime has more downsides than upsides, which makes it impossible to mod it in a way that its even remotely in the same league. You have to compensate for reload speed, charge speed and the lack of damage at range, but you cant, because the 1:1 build lacks it all, you would basically need 3 or 4 more mod slots to compensate for everything.

[Xebov]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

We didn't get the TWW patch and Riven mods, so we have to compensate.

Riven Mods dont help you here, because every Riven Mod that can improve your Cernos Prime can also improve the Rakta Cernos, so you move one step towards the Rakta Cernos while it moves one step away from you.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Just now, Xebov said:

Riven Mods dont help you here, because every Riven Mod that can improve your Cernos Prime can also improve the Rakta Cernos, so you move one step towards the Rakta Cernos while it moves one step away from you.

Gonna pull out the "Different Strokes for Different Folks" card here for using either the Cernos Prime or Rakta Cernos.

[Xebov]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Gonna pull out the "Different Strokes for Different Folks" card here for using either the Cernos Prime or Rakta Cernos.

You can, i just wanted to point out that Riven Mods also have their limits and you shouldnt expect to much from them. As it stands the Cernos Prime cant compete with Rakta Cernos when it comes to higher level stuff.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

17 minutes ago, Xebov said:

You can, i just wanted to point out that Riven Mods also have their limits and you shouldnt expect to much from them. As it stands the Cernos Prime cant compete with Rakta Cernos when it comes to higher level stuff.

Very true. Both weapons are in different tiers of MR and one of them is a Syndicate weapon with a very valuable AoE Viral burst proc and insane charge and flight speed. I never expected them to be at a competitive level to begin with, but I suppose this mentality began with the previous Prime Access with the Sancti Tigris and Tigris Prime.

I just figure that for what it's worth, the Cernos Prime could benefit from Riven mods in a way that if you can roll one that gives a boost to charge/reload speed and overall damage, that would be very beneficial for its type of utility.

Of course, when it comes to the Rakta Cernos, you'd probably want to use a Cernos Riven mod with different stats entirely because its form factor is completely different to the Cernos Prime.

[Xebov]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Very true. Both weapons are in different tiers of MR and one of them is a Syndicate weapon with a very valuable AoE Viral burst proc and insane charge and flight speed. I never expected them to be at a competitive level to begin with, but I suppose this mentality began with the previous Prime Access with the Sancti Tigris and Tigris Prime.

Different tiers have nothing to say. The Venka Prime is also a mid tier weapon but is absolutely end game viable. The Cernos Prime currently looks more like an experiment how ppl would react to it and use it. I hope they will work on it next week, otherwise it will be just another weapon that rarely gets used because its not viable at certain enemy levels, which would be sad, since the model is realy nice.

 

39 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I just figure that for what it's worth, the Cernos Prime could benefit from Riven mods in a way that if you can roll one that gives a boost to charge/reload speed and overall damage, that would be very beneficial for its type of utility.

Of course, when it comes to the Rakta Cernos, you'd probably want to use a Cernos Riven mod with different stats entirely because its form factor is completely different to the Cernos Prime.

You expect to much, besides the low chances of getting a specific roll, both reload and fire rate barely get to the level of Fast Hands (not the primed one) and Speed Trigger and plain damage stacks additive with serration. Also the weapon is crit based, so crit chance and crit damage are more beneficial.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

2 hours ago, Xebov said:

Its impossible to do. Compared to the Rakta Cernos the Cernos Prime has more downsides than upsides, which makes it impossible to mod it in a way that its even remotely in the same league. You have to compensate for reload speed, charge speed and the lack of damage at range, but you cant, because the 1:1 build lacks it all, you would basically need 3 or 4 more mod slots to compensate for everything.

Yeah, i've been thinking since your last post....and unfortunately you're right.

i'll stick to my rakta for now.

~raises shot glass~

here's hoping it gets a much needed buff.

cheers

[redsphere]

Suggested before on forum and reddit.

Cernos Prime should have a alt fire mode to switch between multiple arrows and a single arrow.

Will help greatly with utility. Cernos doesnt handle long range combat very well at the moment. As it is right now it seems like a waste of prime weapon.

[OHKOBunny]

Max a heavy cal, give it a - multishot riven and it'll be pretty okay to use.

[Valthryn]

Maybe the alt fire button could switch the arrow spread between horizontal and vertical, this would allow people to build the bow for hitting multiple targets, or build it like a more traditional bow.

 

I think that would be neat.

[LunarEdge7]

That would be nice. But if they don't take this suggestion into consideration you just have to get used to using it like a shotgun bow.

[Xebov]

8 hours ago, redsphere said:

Suggested before on forum and reddit.

Was suggested alot accross the bord. Yet no dev has responded in any way to it. As it stands the weapon will either get some serious work done or it will be a prime weapon that was already useless on release which would be very very bad.

 

8 hours ago, OHKOBunny said:

Max a heavy cal, give it a - multishot riven and it'll be pretty okay to use.

Which still puts you on disadvantage compared to existing options aka Rakta Cernos as you simply would mod the "special" out.

[Xebov]

Vertical spread would not fix the issue. If you would go for Vertical you would see arrows just miss the target above and below instead of left and right. You should do some shooting tests to see how far arrows drift to the left and right on range. Also bows make heavy use of headshots, which would be still not viable this way. Reducing the reload time and giving an alt fire that shoots a single arrow is the way to go to enable players to deal with heavy units via headshots.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Xebov

[Emulad0or]

Why? So people would use only Cernos Prime and forget about all the other bows? If all the damage was focused on just one arrow, it would be the strongest bow to date, it would make all the other bows get forgotten. Today, it's the best bow to deal with a crowd, but for that it sacrifices single target damage  (and not that much actually). Today you can choose to got to a mission with a bow for single target or one more focused on dealing with a crowd. You pick the one best suited to the mission. There is absolutely no reason for an alt fire mode

[Yonm]

12 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Why? So people would use only Cernos Prime and forget about all the other bows? If all the damage was focused on just one arrow, it would be the strongest bow to date, it would make all the other bows get forgotten. Today, it's the best bow to deal with a crowd, but for that it sacrifices single target damage  (and not that much actually). Today you can choose to got to a mission with a bow for single target or one more focused on dealing with a crowd. You pick the one best suited to the mission. There is absolutely no reason for an alt fire mode

No it wouldn't, Rakta Cernos still beats it out b/c of firerate and reload speed.

[Emulad0or]

6 minutes ago, Yonm said:

No it wouldn't, Rakta Cernos still beats it out b/c of firerate and reload speed.

And Hek still beats Vaykor Hek in multishot. So what? Doesn't change the fact that Cernos Prime would outshine not only the Rakta but also the Paris Prime and the Dread. You could argue that the reload and charge speed for the Rakta would keep some players with it, doesn't change the fact that nobody would use Paris Prime or Dread anymore just because the Cernos Prime plays exactly the same but with more damage.

[Xebov]

38 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Doesn't change the fact that Cernos Prime would outshine not only the Rakta but also the Paris Prime and the Dread. You could argue that the reload and charge speed for the Rakta would keep some players with it, doesn't change the fact that nobody would use Paris Prime or Dread anymore just because the Cernos Prime plays exactly the same but with more damage.

Well, lets start on that. The Paris Prime is an MR4 weapon, its one of the oldest and lowest Primes available and already outclassed by both dread and Rakta Cernos. The Dread can reach 200% crit which means it will do only (!) red crits and the damage of the Dread is not something i would call low. The Rakta Cernos has faster reload, faster firerate, to make it clear, the Rakta Cernos can fire 2.35 times while the Prime fires once, so it would out dps the Cernos Prime even if it had a single fire mode. So there is no point where it outshines another bow, except maybe for the Paris Prime. It would just bring more versatelity to the game by having 2 fire modes.

 

1 hour ago, Emulad0or said:

Today, it's the best bow to deal with a crowd, but for that it sacrifices single target damage  (and not that much actually). Today you can choose to got to a mission with a bow for single target or one more focused on dealing with a crowd. You pick the one best suited to the mission. There is absolutely no reason for an alt fire mode

No you cannot. The crowd stuff is nice on paper, but lets face it, you need specific circumstances to work against crowds. You are bound to a certain distance. Below you mostly hit one target, further away you will miss with most arrows. Besides that the damage is to low to be used in high level missions and for normal missions every grenade launcher or Ignis will do the job better. Im not saying that the multishot is a bad thing, but it is pointless if i cant use it in endless missions or sorties if it lacks damage to get stuff killed. I can repeat myself: Cernos Prime is a Prime weapon that gets already outclassed the moment it got released.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

*Shrugs*

I prefer Cernos Prime compared to Rakta Cernos purely on a CC basis. Built for straight damage, trigger speed, and maybe a Shred (playing around with this last one) and holding down a room, its so easy to peg multiple enemies in the head at all times. Rare for me not to bang out more than three ~ six targets in a single shot without having to shoot at a specific angle. Aim, fire, and I just killed Albert, his daddy, his uncle, his momma, and his bald granny. That is the beauty of the weapon, its capability to CC rather than just pumping out $&*&*#(%& one hit damage.

[Emulad0or]

16 minutes ago, Xebov said:

Well, lets start on that. The Paris Prime is an MR4 weapon, its one of the oldest and lowest Primes available and already outclassed by both dread and Rakta Cernos. The Dread can reach 200% crit which means it will do only (!) red crits and the damage of the Dread is not something i would call low. The Rakta Cernos has faster reload, faster firerate, to make it clear, the Rakta Cernos can fire 2.35 times while the Prime fires once, so it would out dps the Cernos Prime even if it had a single fire mode. So there is no point where it outshines another bow, except maybe for the Paris Prime. It would just bring more versatelity to the game by having 2 fire modes.

 

No you cannot. The crowd stuff is nice on paper, but lets face it, you need specific circumstances to work against crowds. You are bound to a certain distance. Below you mostly hit one target, further away you will miss with most arrows. Besides that the damage is to low to be used in high level missions and for normal missions every grenade launcher or Ignis will do the job better. Im not saying that the multishot is a bad thing, but it is pointless if i cant use it in endless missions or sorties if it lacks damage to get stuff killed. I can repeat myself: Cernos Prime is a Prime weapon that gets already outclassed the moment it got released.

You want "one weapon to rule them all". The Cernos Prime is not, by any means, outclassed at release. It has the highest damage of any bow (sure, you need to be at 15m from the target, but it's still there) and has an exclusive mechanic. No other bow can do what it does  (not considering Ivara here). If you don't like the mechanic or can't see its potential, that is something else, but we don't need another boring bow. We don't need a stronger version of the Paris/Dread. We need new stuff, not just the same stuff with bigger numbers and with a new skin, and DE is doing quite well with the new mechanics, from the Lesion and Dual Toxocyst to the Venka Prime and Cernos Prime.

[Xebov]

11 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

It has the highest damage of any bow (sure, you need to be at 15m from the target, but it's still there) and has an exclusive mechanic.

Outclassed by any shotgun. And outclassed by Dread and Rakta Cernos since they can use the 2x Headshot multiplier, while Cernos Prime will either hit all arrows in the Body or hit with 1 or 2 in the head.

 

13 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

No other bow can do what it does  (not considering Ivara here).

Sadly wrong. Yes no otehr bow can do what it does. Ivaras bow however uses a different mechanic to calculate damage for its arrows.

 

15 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

If you don't like the mechanic or can't see its potential, that is something else, but we don't need another boring bow.

I can see the potential, but i also see that the stats are to bad to make any use out of it. Multishot is an interesting mechanic, but its also way to situational to have a weapon that can only do this.

[Emulad0or]

6 minutes ago, Xebov said:

Outclassed by any shotgun.

And any bow is outclassed by Lex Prime. It's easy to compare outside the weapon class.

8 minutes ago, Xebov said:

And outclassed by Dread and Rakta Cernos since they can use the 2x Headshot multiplier, while Cernos Prime will either hit all arrows in the Body or hit with 1 or 2 in the head

Cernos Prime is to be used against several enemies at once, and at point blank it can (even if it's hard) hit all arrows in the head. Still, as a multi target weapon, it should be not as efficient again a single target as a weapon that was designed for single targets.

17 minutes ago, Xebov said:

Sadly wrong. Yes no otehr bow can do what it does. Ivaras bow however uses a different mechanic to calculate damage for its arrows

I said "not considering Ivara here" because it would be the same to compare the Exalted Blade with the Broken War, or the Peacemaker with the Akstilleto. Doesn't make sense to compare them.

23 minutes ago, Xebov said:

I can see the potential, but i also see that the stats are to bad to make any use out of it. Multishot is an interesting mechanic, but its also way to situational to have a weapon that can only do this.

Stats are not bad, but you want the same damage from a Rakta Cernos dealt to every target of the Cernos Prime, and that doesn't make sense. More often than not, we have swarms of enemies rushing us, that's why AoE weapons are meta (I don't like it, but it's what it is). And single target damage is also (if not more) situational. You prepare for it in the arsenal by choosing the best weapon and mods for the mission.

[Xebov]

59 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Stats are not bad, but you want the same damage from a Rakta Cernos dealt to every target of the Cernos Prime, and that doesn't make sense. More often than not, we have swarms of enemies rushing us, that's why AoE weapons are meta (I don't like it, but it's what it is). And single target damage is also (if not more) situational. You prepare for it in the arsenal by choosing the best weapon and mods for the mission.

I never said that i wanted the full damage on every target. I want a fire mode switch so i get a choice between firing at multiple enemies and firing at a single strong enemy. About the stats, compared to the normal Cernos the Cernos Prime requires 66% more time for reloading and has 20% more dmg per arrow. Which means its the slowest bow in existence and its not viable for high level since single arrow damage is to low to kill swarms at a certain level. Also single Target damage is not situational, heavy units are very common if you play higher level missions so its required that you are able to deal with them.

[Yonm]

3 hours ago, Emulad0or said:

And Hek still beats Vaykor Hek in multishot. So what? Doesn't change the fact that Cernos Prime would outshine not only the Rakta but also the Paris Prime and the Dread. You could argue that the reload and charge speed for the Rakta would keep some players with it, doesn't change the fact that nobody would use Paris Prime or Dread anymore just because the Cernos Prime plays exactly the same but with more damage.

Only a fool would judge weapons purely on damage. Rakta will still be better than Cernos Prime because it has higher DPS due to it's superior reload spead and firerate. Dread would still be better because of superior crit and staus stats and having slash as it's main physical damage. Paris slightly edges it out due to puncture damage and superior crit stats.

Also, I don't even know what Hek and Vaykor comparision is supposed to prove. You do know that that proves my point since Vaykor has superior utility and crit stats as opposed to just straight damage and multishot, right?

Edited November 28, 2016 by Yonm