New Sortie Rewards

[shootaman777]

So, it looks like the community received what they've been asking for on the forums.  The community received a change to bladestorm where the Ash using bladestorm has to do more things, but the problem is still not entirely resolved of other teammates being entirely obsoleted because the Ash is killing everything with bladestorm.  So, in other words, the only change has been that Ashes can no longer hit 4 and go make a sandwich, bladestorm is more annoying to use, and there is no longer an oh s**t button for worst case scenarios, which bladestorm used to be.  

To be perfectly honest, I don't care too much about this Ash change, as to me, its only consequence will be that Ash will no longer be my go-to Warframe for any difficult missions.  I made this thread more of to give feedback on the ridiculously moronic sortie reward changes than to have an argument about Ash.  

What I do care about, and what we can all agree on are horrible changes, are the ones made to the sortie rewards.  Now, I've been farming the sorties to try and obtain some of these new Riven mods.  I've been somewhat successful, receiving a Daikyu mod, and a Miter Critatis (a mod that increases critical damage and critical chance on a weapon that has a critical chance of 0%) that we don't talk about.  This was all pre-update 19.1.0.  It all went downhill from there.  Since then, I've received a madurai lens, 2k endo, an orokin reactor, and 3x nitain extract.  

And my question is: why dilute sortie rewards with things that can be obtained elsewhere?  This is a gripe against: 
-3x Nitain 
-Forma 
-Exilus Adapter 
-Orokin Reactors/Catalysts 
as sortie rewards.  

I've obtained enough reactors and catalysts in my time to be sitting on over 10 of each of them right now.  This is from random alerts, tactical alerts, invasions, Gifts From the Lotus, etc.  I don't want these from sorties.  

Exilus adapters?  Really?  I can get a BP of this for 50k rep from Cephalon Simaris.  And Cephalon Simaris rep is the easiest rep of all the reps in Warframe to farm.  

3x Nitain.  Now, this is just ridiculous.  Nitain, or Alertium, as I think it should be called again, can be obtained, on average, two times a day by a casual player, and is available four times per day total.  And this resource is not even entirely useful.  Only about fourty to fifty (twenty of which are for Booben Prime, may I add) nitain are actually necessary to craft everything in the game that requires nitain to craft them.  Meaning that a player can obsolete nitain as something to be obtained by playing Warframe for TWENTY FIVE days, receiving two nitain alert rewards on those days.  So, why does nitain need to drop from sorties?  It doesn't.  And I'm not even going to discuss how nitain is supposed to drop from sabotage missions, since it doesn't unless one is the luckiest person alive.  

Forma....... why?  Who thought this would be a good idea?  An easily farmable resource that drops on essentially every void relic, and it needs to be a sortie reward?  Why's that?  Do people have trouble farming the one neural sensor to build the forma?  What kind of nonsense is this?  

[EDIT:  Hell, one can even farm Lua capture missions for the sound puzzle room to receive fully crafted forma from the rare Orokin storage container that is given as a reward there, if they truly need forma, and fast.]

And now, just a slight concern that I feel the need to express about another sortie reward: focus lenses.  Regular focus lenses, AND greater focus lenses, are on the same tier of sortie reward.  Does this mean that one has an equal chance of getting a regular focus lens as opposed to a greater focus lens?  What's the point of that?  And with all the affinity farm nerfs, what's the point of even having focus lenses?  It's true that Zenurik and Naramon focus are among the most useful things in the game, and that Zenurik focus requires the least amount of farming out of all the focuses to receive the best focus rewards in the game, but even so, why not just remove the one useless focus class, Madurai, from the focus system altogether?  At least then, one would have a better drop chance for Zanurik, Naramon, and even Vazarin or Unairu lenses, for crying out loud.  Oh, well.  

And now, to the reason why I created this thread:  riven mods.  Now, true to form, DE has introduced something new to the game, then increased the difficulty or the length of the grind for it.  This is what diluting the sortie reward tables has done rather remarkably.  And apparently, I've heard that the chance to receive 2k endo has been slightly decreased.  Well, to put it this way: a slight decrease in a large chance is a tiny decrease that has little impact on the chances to not obtain this reward.  Which is why, in my eyes, I have received 2k endo, but not a riven mod, post 19.1.0, from doing the majority of the sorties post 19.1.0.  And that's not to mention that the grind length for kuva has been increased dramatically by having guaranteed kuva siphon alerts, but not highly farmable kuva alerts.  With the 25% chance to have siphons spawn, I could run to the capture target on Rusalka, Sedna, capture them, and if the siphon had not yet appeared by the time I had crossed two rooms after capturing the target, then I would quit mid-mission and run it again for speed and efficiency.  I'd certainly prefer this, since I averaged about 9-11 siphons per hour, to only being able to farm a few siphons per hour.  

Oh, well.  What do y'all think?

Edited November 27, 2016 by shootaman777
Edit in [ ]

[Teridax68]

Not everyone has the same vast amount of time at their disposal as you do. A lot of players need Nitain, potatoes and Exilus adapter blueprints, and not everyone has spent as much time as you collecting the resources or alerts necessary to obtain them. Considering how Riven mods are recent and limited to 15 per player, you will eventually cap out on those as well, but that does not mean DE should take out some of the game's most valuable resources from Sortie tables for your convenience. I'd personally appreciate it if DE eventually moved towards a proper token system, which would allow players to collect exactly the rewards they want, but until then it would make no sense to just take out Forma/Exilus/potato blueprints just because some players have enough of them already.

[shootaman777]

7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Not everyone has the same vast amount of time at their disposal as you do. A lot of players need Nitain, potatoes and Exilus adapter blueprints, and not everyone has spent as much time as you collecting the resources or alerts necessary to obtain them. Considering how Riven mods are recent and limited to 15 per player, you will eventually cap out on those as well, but that does not mean DE should take out some of the game's most valuable resources from Sortie tables for your convenience. I'd personally appreciate it if DE eventually moved towards a proper token system, which would allow players to collect exactly the rewards they want, but until then it would make no sense to just take out Forma/Exilus/potato blueprints just because some players have enough of them already.

I don't have a 'vast amount of time at my disposal'.  I come on once a day or every other day, do my sorties, check the invasions, catch a nitain alert or two, and head off.  For tac alerts, I occasionally miss some of them because I simply don't have enough time for them.  My main complaint with the reactors/catalysts is that I obtained them, a more rare reward, as a sortie drop, but not a riven mod, thanks to diluted drop tables.  It's not for my convenience that I ask them to remove these from sortie drops.  It's actually that receiving these things as sortie rewards is the least efficient method of obtaining these items, and thus is a waste of a chance at something that cannot be obtained elsewhere.  

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

It's actually that receiving these things as sortie rewards is the least efficient method of obtaining these items, and thus is a waste of a chance at something that cannot be obtained elsewhere.  

Orokin Catalysts and Reactors cannot be obtained by any other means, besides specific and infrequent alerts/invasions and daily tributes. How do you propose players obtain these items if DE were to take them out of Sortie rewards?

Edited November 27, 2016 by Teridax68

[Relentless.Zen]

15 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Orokin Catalysts and Reactors cannot be obtained by any other means, besides specific and infrequent alerts/invasions and daily tributes. How do you propose players obtain these items if DE were to take them out of Sortie rewards?

How did it work till before sorties came out with u18? ;) just saying. Indeed, potatos, forma, exilus and endo is very annoying as sortie reward. There are much better alternatives to get them (farming stuff and sell them for plats perhaps. You can save a lot of time, depending on how hard/long the sorties are^^)

[NinjaKitsune56]

17 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Orokin Catalysts and Reactors cannot be obtained by any other means, besides specific and infrequent alerts/invasions and daily tributes. How do you propose players obtain these items if DE were to take them out of Sortie rewards?

Hm... Platinum sounds like a winner.

[shootaman777]

20 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Orokin Catalysts and Reactors cannot be obtained by any other means, besides specific and infrequent alerts/invasions and daily tributes. How do you propose players obtain these items if DE were to take them out of Sortie rewards?

Farm for desirable prime items, sell them for plat, buy reactors and catalysts in the market.  Hell, even mediocre mods can sell, too.  

I used to farm Ash Prime Blueprints and Systems back when void KEYS were a thing to do this.  They sold about 100p apiece, and if I really wanted to get rid of them, I sold them for 80p and the sharks who bought them for less to sell for more would buy them.  Back in the good old days of t3s and t3d.  Ah, memories.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by shootaman777
Final paragraph addition

[Teridax68]

Just now, shootaman777 said:

Farm for desirable prime items, sell them for plat, buy reactors and catalysts in the market.  Hell, even mediocre mods can sell, too.  

Okay, but then why not just do that to trade for Riven mods? Plat isn't really a substitute for gameplay, and if you want to bring that up as a means of obtaining whichever resource, the same argument can be made for using it to obtain literally anything else that can be traded.

[shootaman777]

9 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but then why not just do that to trade for Riven mods? Plat isn't really a substitute for gameplay, and if you want to bring that up as a means of obtaining whichever resource, the same argument can be made for using it to obtain literally anything else that can be traded.

The good riven mods are worth much more than 20 plat flat price.  Didn't think I had to explain that, it's kinda sad that I have to.  And people don't like selling unopened riven mods.  
You're wrong.  The same argument cannot be made for anything else that can be traded.  Many things are not worth the platinum price to where farming them is the best option.  Others are certainly worth a low platinum price.   

It's all about the biggest bang for the smallest buck.  

In other words, the problem with your argument is that you fail to consider that Orokin Reactors, Catalysts, Exilus Adapters, and Forma are all purchasable from the market for 20p flat price, whereas other things generally cost more.  You're trying to make a general argument based on four unique things, which you cannot logically do, as few other things in the game meet the same criteria for farming methods as these four resources.  The more desirable the thing, the higher the price generally is.  So, no, farming for platinum to buy riven mods is especially useless.  Especially when they're getting randomly nerfed and buffed on random weapons, it'd be foolhardy to spend platinum on something that could become useless in a day or so.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by shootaman777

[Teridax68]

4 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

In other words, the problem with your argument is that you fail to consider that Orokin Reactors, Catalysts, Exilus Adapters, and Forma are all purchasable from the market for 20p flat price, whereas other things generally cost more.

Okay, but there are literally dozens of frames, archwings and pets combined to slot potatoes into, and hundreds of weapons. You can only have 15 Riven mods. Even if you decided to purchase all 15 Riven mods for 400 plat each, that would still be less than the amount of plat you'd spend for every possible potato/Exilus adapter one could ask for. Calling me ignorant and a troll will not help make yourself more convincing.

[WYGIWYS]

Just now, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but there are literally dozens of frames, archwings and pets combined to slot potatoes into, and hundreds of weapons. You can only have 15 Riven mods. Even if you decided to purchase all 15 Riven mods for 400 plat each, that would still be less than the amount of plat you'd spend for every possible potato/Exilus adapter one could ask for. Calling me ignorant and a troll will not help make yourself more convincing.

You can't deny the fact, that only a fracture of all the weapons, frames or, god forgive me, arsewing, are decent enough to potato them.

And, BTW, sorties are "endgame" of warframe, crippled and meh, but endgame, and neither me, not, as i hope, other players who reached "endgame" stage, want to see:

Formas(you can get enougth from relics)

Lenses(great/normal)(cuz there are 2 schools only worth to level, and you can manage to make 2 of your warframes dedicated to focus farming)

Nitain(Q_Q alerts people, like 10 per day)

2k endo (you get this much from 2k excavation on youknowwhere)

in my rewards.

I want to see: rivens (they can be usefull by price or by my interest); legendary cores (what's that)

and something more adequate for the "endgame" rewards.
 

Or just make normal endgame, why not.

[shootaman777]

16 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but there are literally dozens of frames, archwings and pets combined to slot potatoes into, and hundreds of weapons. You can only have 15 Riven mods. Even if you decided to purchase all 15 Riven mods for 400 plat each, that would still be less than the amount of plat you'd spend for every possible potato/Exilus adapter one could ask for. Calling me ignorant and a troll will not help make yourself more convincing.

Actually, it's a lot easier than that.  Let's run some numbers, shall we?  Then we'll see who's ignorant, who's trolling, and who's less convincing.  

Warframes:  
So, there are 45 different Warframes altogether, including all primes, non-primes, and Excalibur Prime.  That's 20p apiece for Orokin Reactors.  So, we're at 900p now.  That's assuming that you potato ALL of them, which nobody really does (but I did).  Most people would get the non-prime variants, max rank them, and sell them, then get the prime variants.  No need for potatoes there.  So there goes 15 potatoes, 300p less.  We're at 600p now.  Now, who in their right mind potatoes a 'useless' Warframe?  I define a 'useless' Warframe as having no place in an endgame squad, by the way.  So, there's Atlas, Chroma, Ember, Equinox, Hydroid, Limbo, Mag, Mesa, Mirage, Nekros, Nezha, Broberon, Rhino, Saryn, Titania, Volt, and Zephyr.  There goes another 17 Warframes, 340p less.  So now we're at 260p total spent, counting Excalibur Prime.  That's only if one wants all the best Warframes, potatoed.  Forma is another matter altogether, and much easier to farm than Catalysts and Reactors.  So, no need to spend platinum there.  Also, Exilus Adapters are practically useless and too easy to farm, so let's count them out since there's no need to buy them with plat.  

Archwings:  
So, there are 5 different Archwings altogether, including all primes and non-primes.  That's 20p apiece for Orokin Reactors.  So, we're at 100p now.  That's assuming that you potato ALL of them, which nobody really does (but I did).  Most people would get the non-prime variants, max rank them, and sell them, then get the prime variants.  No need for potatoes there.  So there goes 1 potato, 20p less.  We're at 80p now.  Now, each Archwing has their own merits, so let's not count any of them out.  So now we're at 80p total spent.  That's only if one wants all the best Archwings, potatoed.  Forma is another matter altogether, and much easier to farm than Catalysts and Reactors.  So, no need to spend platinum there.  

Weapons:  
So, for argument's sake, let's only mention endgame weapons here, because I could go all day and type for hours on the subject of weapons.  Endgame weapons aren't necessarily weapons that you can only get at higher mastery ranks: they're just the best, the creme de la creme.  So, we have primaries, secondaries, melee, and arch-weapons.  

-Primaries:  The Boltor or Burston Prime, the Hek, the Quanta Vandal, the Rakta Cernos, the Sancti Tigris, the Soma Prime, the Synoid Simulor, and the Tonkor.  That's 8 weapons, 20p each for a Catalyst, which brings us to 160p for primary weapons.  

-Secondaries:  The Akstiletto Prime, the Despair, the Furis, the Lex Prime, the Nukor, the Rakta Ballistica. the Sonicor, the Staticor, the Synoid Gammacor, and the Vaykor Marelok.  That's 10 weapons, 20p each for a Catalyst, which brings us to 200p for secondary weapons.  

-Melees:  My personal favorite class of weapons, this consists of the Atterax, the Bo Prime, the Dragon Nikana, the Galatine Prime, the Orthos Prime, the Rakta Dark Dagger, the War.  That's 7 weapons, 20p each for a Catalyst, which brings us to 140p for melee weapons.  

-Arch-weapons:  These are almost irrevelant, pick your favorite arch-gun and arch-melee and Catalyst them.  That's 2 weapons, 20p each for a Catalyst, which brings us to 40p for Arch-weapons.  

In summation:  
Total Plat Spent = Warframep + Archwingp + Primariesp + Secondariesp + Meleep + Arch-weaponsp  
= 260p + 80p + 160p + 200p + 140p + 40p = 880p  

So, the total plat spent in my method is 880p.  
You suggested spending 400p x 15 riven mods.  That's 6000p, up front.  It costs under 1/4 of the cost of those riven mods, to buy Catalysts/Reactors for every item in the game that deserves them, and this is generously.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
comment edited by moderator

[shootaman777]

18 minutes ago, WYGIWYS said:

You can't deny the fact, that only a fracture of all the weapons, frames or, god forgive me, arsewing, are decent enough to potato them.

And, BTW, sorties are "endgame" of warframe, crippled and meh, but endgame, and neither me, not, as i hope, other players who reached "endgame" stage, want to see:

Formas(you can get enougth from relics)

Lenses(great/normal)(cuz there are 2 schools only worth to level, and you can manage to make 2 of your warframes dedicated to focus farming)

Nitain(Q_Q alerts people, like 10 per day)

2k endo (you get this much from 2k excavation on youknowwhere)

in my rewards.

I want to see: rivens (they can be usefull by price or by my interest); legendary cores (what's that)

and something more adequate for the "endgame" rewards.
 

Or just make normal endgame, why not.

I gotchu covered, labelled everything out there point by point of what you were saying. :D

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, shootaman777 said:

 No need for potatoes there.  So there goes 15 potatoes, 300p less.

There goes another 17 Warframes, 340p less.

Also, Exilus Adapters are practically useless and too easy to farm, so let's count them out since there's no need to buy them with plat.  

So there goes 1 potato, 20p less.

So, for argument's sake, let's only mention endgame weapons here

No, that's not how counting works. If you want to take my counting for all 15 Riven mods at 400 plat, you better count all 365 potato-able items. Let's be generous and not count Exilus Adapters; that still makes 7300p. This also ignores drop chances for Rivens versus drop chances for potatoes on Sortie reward tables, as they heavily favor the former over the latter. Your "math", just like your thread and your ad hominem accusations, is self-serving in the extreme, and distorts facts to suit your own preferences. Not only will DE not take out potatoes just so that you can get to Rivens faster, they don't need to for you to reach the cap quickly enough. Had you watched the dev streams, you would have seen that DE discussed implementing guaranteed rare rewards, including Riven mods, after getting a certain amount of lower-grade Sortie rewards. Have some patience, and you will get all the Riven mods you need, and others will be able to eke out some of the potatoes they need along the way without having to pay for them with a currency tied to real-world money.

[shootaman777]

13 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

No, that's not how counting works. If you want to take my counting for all 15 Riven mods at 400 plat, you better count all 365 potato-able items. Let's be generous and not count Exilus Adapters; that still makes 7300p. This also ignores drop chances for Rivens versus drop chances for potatoes on Sortie reward tables, as they heavily favor the former over the latter. Your "math", just like your thread and your ad hominem accusations, is self-serving in the extreme, and distorts facts to suit your own preferences. Not only will DE not take out potatoes just so that you can get to Rivens faster, they don't need to for you to reach the cap quickly enough. Had you watched the dev streams, you would have seen that DE discussed implementing guaranteed rare rewards, including Riven mods, after getting a certain amount of lower-grade Sortie rewards. Have some patience, and you will get all the Riven mods you need, and others will be able to eke out some of the potatoes they need along the way without having to pay for them with a currency tied to real-world money.

The fact that the currency is tied to real-world money is irrelevant.  The fact is, that the most efficient method of farming orokin reactors and catalysts is via spending platinum on them, and the most efficient method of obtaining platinum, outside of real-money transactions, is farming for saleable items.  

Also, you're being entirely unrealistic.  Few players will collect and potato all in-game items.  Doing so would be a waste of time and effort, with little payout.  And no, just because you count the max storage of riven mods, it does not mean that I must count every item in the game.  Count every permutation and combination of suffix and prefix of riven mod for every weapon, and then you can make that argument.  But it's still irrelevant because one can only have 15 riven mods.  Counting the 15 riven mods is realistic.  Potatoing every item in the game, however, is not realistic.  In addition, the idea that obtaining the maximum of 15 riven mods is the goal does not mean that that is the finish line.  Suppose you have to re-roll the mod you receive for a desired effect.  Suppose you end up with a mod for a weapon whose riven mods get nerfed, like the Soma Prime.  Suppose you end up with a useless riven mod, like my Miter Critatis.  The end goal of the riven mods would be to obtain 15 useful, endgame viable ones.  However, in a changing meta of riven mods, from all the buff and nerfhammer swings, simply obtaining 15 of these won't be enough.  So, assume that one has to obtain 30 total riven mods to eventually acquire their desired riven mod set of 15.  Now, let's multiply that by your number, 400p.  That's 12k plat.  Suddenly, potatoing every item in the game seems more viable.  

But wait, we've failed to consider another more unrealistic aspect of acquiring every item in the game and then potatoing them - acquiring enough inventory slots to hold them all.  

An Archwing slot costs 12p, 2 Arch-weapon slots cost 12p, 2 weapon slots cost 12p, 2 Sentinel slots cost 12p, and a Warframe slot costs 20p.  

I'm not doing the math for you here and wasting my time when you're not even going to address how unrealistic what you're saying is.  Give me a reason to take you seriously, and I very well just may.  

Additionally, I have stopped watching the devstreams, as watching them is depressing as hell, since I get to see all about the upcoming nerfs.  I get how good it sounds that a certain amount of S#&$ rewards can guarantee you a rare reward, but if that rare reward is truly not a rare reward, then it's pointless.  This is coming from a person who got 25 r5 cores for over 2 weeks straight.  Not exactly something to be happy about.  

You say my numbers are self-serving.  That's not exactly the truth.  If that were the case, I'd have had a shorter list and lower price.  My numbers correspond to what I'd choose as my main weapons, and then a bunch of extras.  I don't have about half of those things potatoed, simply because I don't have the time to do so, and forma them.  It's more of a wishlist with a bunch of extra things on it, to have a relatively large pool of items from which to do calculations.  In truth, I'd come up with a list of fewer items to be potatoed, but the point was to include a larger amount of items to make the point that even with a bunch of extra items from what a person would eventually settle with in the endgame, it still is far cheaper than buying 15 riven mods at your price.  Hell, even with the inventory slot purchases, it'd still be cheaper than buying 15 riven mods at your price.  

To address what you've said in your post, I need not type a single thing.  If you read the rest of this thread, then you've already seen what I'm about to put here:  

 

15 hours ago, WYGIWYS said:

You can't deny the fact, that only a fracture of all the weapons, frames or, god forgive me, arsewing, are decent enough to potato them.

And, BTW, sorties are "endgame" of warframe, crippled and meh, but endgame, and neither me, not, as i hope, other players who reached "endgame" stage, want to see:

Formas(you can get enougth from relics)

Lenses(great/normal)(cuz there are 2 schools only worth to level, and you can manage to make 2 of your warframes dedicated to focus farming)

Nitain(Q_Q alerts people, like 10 per day)

2k endo (you get this much from 2k excavation on youknowwhere)

in my rewards.

I want to see: rivens (they can be usefull by price or by my interest); legendary cores (what's that)

and something more adequate for the "endgame" rewards.
 

Or just make normal endgame, why not.

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
comment edited by moderator

[Thrymm]

Honestly, all of this "potatoing this, doing that" stuff detracts from the biggest point, and on that I agree----the Sortie award table is not right.

Diversity in ways to get items in a game is a good thing, in my opinion.  Endo is done very well.  We can get piles from alerts, mission drops, Ayatan statues, and repeat mod drops.

Reactors, Catalysts, and Exilus adaptors have been pretty well done in the past.  They showed up sparsely and where forced to be used wisely.  If you wanted more, you bought them(inexpensively, on a per item basis).

Forma, on the whole, is actually done pretty well.  There are multiple avenues to get it from a cheap purchase to various drop methods within the game.

The problem with all of it is Riven.  Putting them in one place, one shot per day, was just plain bad.  Now, many people will not find the other drops---which are well done as they are obtainable all over the place--to be something that they want from their Sortie.  There are multiple ways to get this other stuff.  Sorties are for Riven.

So rather than re-hash all the other stuff(that is, in fact, useful in game items), I think it's the Riven that needs the rehash.  Find other avenues to drop it.  Let them be a rare transmute possibility.  Let us grind up weapons to get them, or hell, let us even buy them with plat(which would also set a damned baseline price to stop screwing up the trade economy).  Piles of ways to get them, so that people can do what they want with them.

There won't be consensus until Riven inventories are high.  Many people will not be ok with drop tables until their personal Riven stash is where they want it to be. 

About the only way I could see to actually satisfy people with the Sortie reward table until that time would be to make them drop solely Riven mods.  At that point we'd still be getting useless ones nine out of ten times anyway, so it's not like there would be a real glut of increased power in game.  Between the rng stats and rng weapon assignment, just getting one every day would actually do fairly little to increase the quantity or quality of these mods----with increased reroll costs and so many awful weapons to choose from, the amount of bad Riven compared to good is actually pretty staggering.

Even still, I doubt we'll see the sorties going this direction, and as such I think the mods should be more readily available from a variety of sources.  That would solve the concern with the Sortie drop table because missing your daily chance at one would not be the disappointment that it is right now.

[shootaman777]

9 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

Honestly, all of this "potatoing this, doing that" stuff detracts from the biggest point, and on that I agree----the Sortie award table is not right.

Diversity in ways to get items in a game is a good thing, in my opinion.  Endo is done very well.  We can get piles from alerts, mission drops, Ayatan statues, and repeat mod drops.

Reactors, Catalysts, and Exilus adaptors have been pretty well done in the past.  They showed up sparsely and where forced to be used wisely.  If you wanted more, you bought them(inexpensively, on a per item basis).

Forma, on the whole, is actually done pretty well.  There are multiple avenues to get it from a cheap purchase to various drop methods within the game.

The problem with all of it is Riven.  Putting them in one place, one shot per day, was just plain bad.  Now, many people will not find the other drops---which are well done as they are obtainable all over the place--to be something that they want from their Sortie.  There are multiple ways to get this other stuff.  Sorties are for Riven.

So rather than re-hash all the other stuff(that is, in fact, useful in game items), I think it's the Riven that needs the rehash.  Find other avenues to drop it.  Let them be a rare transmute possibility.  Let us grind up weapons to get them, or hell, let us even buy them with plat(which would also set a damned baseline price to stop screwing up the trade economy).  Piles of ways to get them, so that people can do what they want with them.

There won't be consensus until Riven inventories are high.  Many people will not be ok with drop tables until their personal Riven stash is where they want it to be. 

About the only way I could see to actually satisfy people with the Sortie reward table until that time would be to make them drop solely Riven mods.  At that point we'd still be getting useless ones nine out of ten times anyway, so it's not like there would be a real glut of increased power in game.  Between the rng stats and rng weapon assignment, just getting one every day would actually do fairly little to increase the quantity or quality of these mods----with increased reroll costs and so many awful weapons to choose from, the amount of bad Riven compared to good is actually pretty staggering.

Even still, I doubt we'll see the sorties going this direction, and as such I think the mods should be more readily available from a variety of sources.  That would solve the concern with the Sortie drop table because missing your daily chance at one would not be the disappointment that it is right now.

I'd agree with you that riven mods should indeed be rewards from something specific so there isn't a daily disappointment.  However, DE's style is to introduce something to the game, then make the grind for it longer and more difficult.  So, what would you propose to have riven mods drop from?  Something new?  Something that already exists?  

And even when people fill their storage of riven mods, the grind isn't over, as you said, and it'd sometimes be worth it to just get rid of a riven mod to get another one with the increasing reroll costs.  And back to sorties these people go, still grinding.  So I don't think that even when players' personal riven stashes being full will even make players okay with the drop tables.  So hopefully, this drop table BS will change with enough outcry.  

[Teridax68]

11 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

The fact that the currency is tied to real-world money is irrelevant.  The fact is, that the most efficient method of farming orokin reactors and catalysts is via spending platinum on them, and the most efficient method of obtaining platinum, outside of real-money transactions, is farming for saleable items.

The fact that Platinum is tied to real-world money is completely relevant. Bar DE prizes, the only way for Platinum to enter the game is if somebody buys it for real-world currency, so no matter how you obtain the Platinum, you are effectively making a transaction backed by actual money. This should not be held as the only means to obtain any in-game resource, unless that resource is meant to be exclusive to cash purchases, which isn't the case for potatoes.

11 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

Also, you're being entirely unrealistic.  Few players will collect and potato all in-game items. Counting the 15 riven mods is realistic.

Counting the 15 Riven mods may be realistic to you, but it isn't to most people either. Rivens can be obtained relatively easily from Sorties (I have 2 extra Rivens just from them, and I'm not even playing Sorties that often), plus there's the one you get from the quest. Even if you consider the possibility of trashing unfavorable Rivens and getting new mods for better weapons, that is still not going to take even a fraction of the time most people have taken to amass the potatoes needed for their frames "naturally".

11 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

Additionally, I have stopped watching the devstreams, as watching them is depressing as hell, since I get to see all about the upcoming nerfs.

"I don't pay attention to anything DE says, but DE should totally listen to my idea, even if it makes absolutely no sense in the context of the changes they're planning, and have announced on their streams."

11 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

You say my numbers are self-serving. That's not exactly the truth.

No, that is the truth. You are literally advocating for DE to deprive any newer players of a gameplay-based source of potatoes and other valuable resources for your own pure convenience. This is not the kind of decision DE would make, because it would only benefit a tiny subset of players (you) to the detriment of everyone else.

Edited November 28, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
comment edited by moderator

[shootaman777]

9 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

The fact that Platinum is tied to real-world money is completely relevant. Bar DE prizes, the only way for Platinum to enter the game is if somebody buys it for real-world currency, so no matter how you obtain the Platinum, you are effectively making a transaction backed by actual money. This should not be held as the only means to obtain any in-game resource, unless that resource is meant to be exclusive to cash purchases, which isn't the case for potatoes.

Counting the 15 Riven mods may be realistic to you, but it isn't to most people either. Rivens can be obtained relatively easily from Sorties (I have 2 extra Rivens just from them, and I'm not even playing Sorties that often), plus there's the one you get from the quest. Even if you consider the possibility of trashing unfavorable Rivens and getting new mods for better weapons, that is still not going to take even a fraction of the time most people have taken to amass the potatoes needed for their frames "naturally".

"I don't pay attention to anything DE says, but DE should totally listen to my idea, even if it makes absolutely no sense in the context of the changes they're planning, and have announced on their streams."

No, that is the truth. You are literally advocating for DE to deprive any newer players of a gameplay-based source of potatoes and other valuable resources for your own pure convenience. This is not the kind of decision DE would make, because it would only benefit a tiny subset of players (you) to the detriment of everyone else.

Yes, clearly, insulting other players for criticizing your Totally Flawless Idea™ is the best way to get DE to consider you and your suggestion seriously. Go get'em, champ.

Given that there's no conversion from platinum to real-world money, once it's platinum, it's not real-world money - it's an in-game currency in circulation.  Any value it had in terms of currency is now irrelevant.  It's no longer backed by real money.  You can't say 'I spent <#> amount of currency on <in-game item>', as, first off, platinum can be discounted.  Secondly, the more that is purchased at a time, the less value the platinum has in terms of currency, as bonus platinum is given 'for free' as a package deal with more expensive packages.  Thirdly, if Warframe shut down right now, you would not be refunded money equal to the conversion of your amount of platinum.  As such, it is nothing more than an in-game currency once it is purchased.  

Wait a moment.  You're the one who realistically counted 15 riven mods first.  And now you're telling me that, to the majority of players, it isn't?  

Rivens can be easily obtained from sorties, but only with outstanding luck, and on diluted drop tables.  This is what my argument is about - how to un-dilute said drop tables.  

I'm not making this thread for DE.  I'm trying to gauge where people stand, and see what ideas they have on the subject of the 19.1.0 sortie drop tables.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And, eventually, given that people give feedback on the 19.1.0 sortie drop tables, and not digress to irrelevant matters, there might be a semi-decent idea here to bring to DE.  I've lost confidence in the potential for success to any changes that DE brings along, and due to their decisions.  For example, nerfing the range of vacuum.... just NO.  As such, I believe that the only ideas that will work for Warframe are the ones the players hash out and discuss amongst themselves, then bring to DE's attention when all that remains to be done is light research on the solution, and implementation.  At that point, there's nothing more that a player could do about/with the idea, anyways.  

"You are literally advocating for DE to deprive any newer players of a gameplay-based source of potatoes and other valuable resources for your own pure convenience." -Teridax68 

Well, here's where you're catching yourself up in what you're saying.  Sorties are endgame tier, as endgame goes in Warframe.  Newer players don't play sorties.  Progression in Warframe is determined by mods, endo, and occasionally a player's arsenal, once one gets past the incredibly steep learning curve.  That all takes time to acquire.  Unless a newer player was sponsored by a veteran and given everything they could need to move into endgame-tier missions, they wouldn't even care about what either of us are saying, since it wouldn't affect them at all.  So, those newer players already don't have sorties as a way of getting potatoes or other resources.  So, what's the difference to them?  

Edited November 28, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
comment edited by moderator

[VonDodo]

I agree 3 nitain are a  not a good idea.

You get nitain playing regular mission...and you get 1 per mission

 

Sorties are made of 3 mission supposedly harder than other mission, so if you get 3 nitain you basically get no sortie reward :|

 

Same for 2000 endos ._. you can farm more in normal missions..at least give 3000

[shootaman777]

4 minutes ago, VonDodo said:

I agree 3 nitain are a  not a good idea.

You get nitain playing regular mission...and you get 1 per mission

 

Sorties are made of 3 mission supposedly harder than other mission, so if you get 3 nitain you basically get no sortie reward :|

 

Same for 2000 endos ._. you can farm more in normal missions..at least give 3000

That's always been a thing.  25 r5 cores used to drop from sorties, and 5 r5 cores was a drop from Hieracon, Pluto.  One could obtain more cores from Hieracon in the time it took to do the sorties, than the sorties themselves.  

[GhostlightX]

12 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Not everyone has the same vast amount of time at their disposal as you do. A lot of players need Nitain, potatoes and Exilus adapter blueprints, and not everyone has spent as much time as you collecting the resources or alerts necessary to obtain them. Considering how Riven mods are recent and limited to 15 per player, you will eventually cap out on those as well, but that does not mean DE should take out some of the game's most valuable resources from Sortie tables for your convenience. I'd personally appreciate it if DE eventually moved towards a proper token system, which would allow players to collect exactly the rewards they want, but until then it would make no sense to just take out Forma/Exilus/potato blueprints just because some players have enough of them already.

You're missing the point. Yes there are players who need Nitain, Forma etc but those players already have a very efficient way to get those things when they want them. The Sortie is (allegedy) the end-game. So it should reward end-game things, exclusively. It should be something special. We either need to :

Remove stupid duplicate rewards from Sorties, if there are easier way to get those things elsewhere in the game

OR

Add another way to get Riven mods

[GhostlightX]

12 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Orokin Catalysts and Reactors cannot be obtained by any other means, besides specific and infrequent alerts/invasions and daily tributes. How do you propose players obtain these items if DE were to take them out of Sortie rewards?

How did we get them before? Oh wait....you farmed relics for 10 minutes, then sold the junk you got for 20 plat and bought them. Sigh.

[The_Charlatan]

Easy solution to the Sortie drop table: everyone can select which rewards they can potentially get. Of course, you would have to select at least 2 common drops, 1 uncommon, and 1 rare (or something like that).

Edited November 28, 2016 by The_Charlatan

[GhostlightX]

12 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but there are literally dozens of frames, archwings and pets combined to slot potatoes into, and hundreds of weapons. You can only have 15 Riven mods. Even if you decided to purchase all 15 Riven mods for 400 plat each, that would still be less than the amount of plat you'd spend for every possible potato/Exilus adapter one could ask for. Calling me ignorant and a troll will not help make yourself more convincing.

Most players will want to go through dozens if not hundreds of Riven mods before they settle on their final 15.