Test Before You Talk

[SurrealEdge]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That's a massive downside.

Also, can enemies still just walk out of it?

Can a dead body walk?

[Jackviator]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Also, can enemies still just walk out of it?

Yes, from my own testing enemies can and most certainly will start walking out of it unless you have 2 or 3 Magnetize bubbles grouped up at once.

Edit: figured I should clarify; the enemies that are the target of the ability, the ones that the ability is centered on, can't walk out. However, the enemies that get drawn into the bubble most certainly can, often resulting in you getting shot by enemies you thought were taken care of.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Jackviator

[Tizodd]

2 hours ago, Tailion said:

It does not always take alot, or any testing to understand the flaws of a frame. Less then 5 minutes of testing with nezha and i could tell that he is crap compared to rhino due to poor scaling and awful animation times. Numbers and an understanding of how the game works makes it take very little time to sort some things out.

Some things like certain mods can take a good bit of testing to figure out its quirks, but frames stats, skills, and scaling are very easy to read and easy to understand. Zephyr for example (to me) is crap because her 1 & 2 are pointless when parkour exists, her 3 is actually pretty good (very good with the augment) but mesa has the same effect on her 3 and brings ALOT more to the table and when it comes to Zephyr's 4 its unreliable, expensive, and does very little that i cant do with other skills or just using the Sonicor.

You pretty much proved the OP's point with these statements.

Nezha actually performs better than Rhino vs Infested.  Melee Infested units are unable to get close enough to touch Nezha because of the Heat radiating from Warding Halo.  So while Rhino's Iron Skin has more eHP, when fighting Infested, it's being hit by melee and ranged units.  Nezha only needs to be concerned with the ranged units.  Also, Nezha can do a decent amount of healing to assist the team through Toxin clouds.

Zephyr is far from crap.  Turbulence is arguably the best defensive ability in the game.  And Tornado is awesome CC when you need disrupt enemies.  No, it doesn't set enemies up for kills like Stomp or Divine Spears...but it does a good job of pure CC.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

12 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

You don't need X Exp in a frame to know its not what you like, you just need to have play them enough to know what they do. ive less than a million in both Oberon and Wukong, i leveled them (yes actually leveled not sat in Draco or whatever) and found that between aesthetics and how the frames play they were not that good, that some others can make them work is good for them. I hate loki with a passion only passed by Volt but i kept the prime for its stealth and as soon as a better option (Ivara) came Loki p was dropped in the bin where he belongs. I'll happily deride Loki, Wukong, Volt and Oberon all day and if you like those frames then suck it up as no ammount you trying to explain otherwise will make like bad frames.

Not necessarily, but I think you haven't played enough to know how he's viable, and you surely don't have nearly as much knowledge as I've learned with my roughly 700 hours of experience using Oberon. Not that you'd need nearly that much, but I think you still need to learn more than you have, if you don't know that he's viable.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

9 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

Can a dead body walk?

I play on planets past Earth, darling.

8 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Yes, from my own testing enemies can and most certainly will start walking out of it unless you have 2 or 3 Magnetize bubbles grouped up at once.

Thanks, that's what I thought. That makes them basically useless. Until it works like a targeted skill that also works like vortex (sucks enemies together but without knocking them down so vortex still has a point), there really isn't any point to Magnetize.

If it grouped enemies together, and held them together, then it could be really powerful.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

he's viable

viable != good, which is the entire point. Everything frame in the game is "viable," that's why I made the point about using them without powers.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

6 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

And Tornado is awesome CC when you need disrupt enemies.  No, it doesn't set enemies up for kills like Stomp or Divine Spears...but it does a good job of pure CC.

It can have many corrosive or viral procs though. That helps with kills rates a lot.

[DeMonkey]

20 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

You don't need X Exp in a frame to know its not what you like, you just need to have play them enough to know what they do. ive less than a million in both Oberon and Wukong, i leveled them (yes actually leveled not sat in Draco or whatever) and found that between aesthetics and how the frames play they were not that good, that some others can make them work is good for them. I hate loki with a passion only passed by Volt but i kept the prime for its stealth and as soon as a better option (Ivara) came Loki p was dropped in the bin where he belongs. I'll happily deride Loki, Wukong, Volt and Oberon all day and if you like those frames then suck it up as no ammount you trying to explain otherwise will make like bad frames.

But you see, you're stating outright that these are bad frames rather than voicing it as your opinion.

They are not, you just haven't found a way of making them work. That's fine, not everyone can make every frame work for them.

But given your post it doesn't sound like you've actually dedicated much time to trying, it's almost impossible to have an educated opinion on a frames actual pros and cons unless you dedicate time to playing them, exploring different builds and so on.

And without an educated opinion you can't make educated posts on the matter.

OP's point in a nutshell.

[SurrealEdge]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I play on planets past Earth, darling.

I didn't create a thread wanting infinite ammo.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, SurrealEdge said:

I didn't create a thread wanting infinite ammo.

That's okay. We can't all be perfect. Variety is the spice of life. or so I am told.

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

you're stating outright that these are bad frames rather than voicing it as your opinion

That's not the way opinions work. If I say blue is the best color for shoes, it is still an opinion, even if I don't preface it with, "I think," or, "IMO."

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I play on planets past Earth, darling.

'Darling' is just as demeaning as 'Kiddo'.

4 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Actually, it is, and just a word of warning, calling people kiddo on these forums tends to get you a warning.

If you're going to berate someone for that sort of behavior, don't go and do it in another thread.

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That's not the way opinions work. If I say blue is the best color for shoes, it is still an opinion, even if I don't preface it with, "I think," or, "IMO."

Then they should start with ''In my opinion'' or, ''I think'' rather than outright saying something is bad.

That sentence should be ''I think blue is the best colour for shoes''. 

[SurrealEdge]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That's okay. We can't all be perfect. Variety is the spice of life. or so I am told.

There isn't any variety with you because no infinite scaling equates to trash. Sorry, but you reply with the same responses every time. Yeah the abilities don't hold up as they used to, but what harm is there finding ways to make them work?

I'm not seeing you putting forth any advice other than the scaling argument.

[Marvelous_A]

Just FYI...he/she uses the same frame as you do, the fact that you played a frame for hundreds hours doesn't change anything, including the stat and abilities of the frame. In short, you don't need an extremely long in-game time to tell a frame or weapon is bad or not.

[SurrealEdge]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

Just FYI...he/she uses the same frame as you do, the fact that you played a frame for hundreds hours doesn't change anything, including the stat and abilities of the frame. In short, you don't need an extremely long in-game time to tell a frame or weapon is bad or not.

It doesn't hurt to experiment a bit before passing judgement without trying other variations on a frame or weapon.

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

That sentence should be ''I think blue is the best colour for shoes''. 

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

17 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

There isn't any variety with you because no infinite scaling equates to trash. Sorry, but you reply with the same responses every time. Yeah the abilities don't hold up as they used to, but what harm is there finding ways to make them work?

Rather than wasting time on a skill that does flat damage, you are better off switching to a frame that CCs instead. That's the point.

12 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

It doesn't hurt to experiment a bit before passing judgement without trying other variations on a frame or weapon.

Why are you assuming the haven't?

[NativeKiller]

Your argument is valid and reasonable...

 

BUT opinions are subjective.

 

Also, people are free to talk about a Warframe even if they don't have millions of xp on them.

 

For example, I talk shiet about Oberon even if I don't have much experience with it.

 

It's because I personally tested him out for a few hours and found him to be so lackluster... and never bothered with him ever since.

 

Just saying. :3

Edited December 4, 2016 by NativeKiller

[DeMonkey]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

Nice counter argument, that really put me in my place. /s

The fact remains that when you share an opinion, you share it as an opinion. I would never say ''Green is the best colour'', because there is no such thing as a best colour and it'll just start a petty argument.

I think green is the best colour.

In my opinion green is the best colour.

If I were to say ''Blue shoes look atrocious'', I look like a mug trying to start an argument with someone who does like blue shoes.

I know you disagree with me, I know why you disagree with me. I'm not continuing this, derailing is bad.

Edited December 4, 2016 by DeMonkey

[SurrealEdge]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Rather than wasting time on a skill that does flat damage, you are better off switching to a frame that CCs instead. That's the point.

Why are you assuming the haven't?

It still provides a boost in damage to both Pull and Crush, which are CC.

From the replies from previous threads where they admit they don't play the frame or haven't played much of it and judge solely on others opinions.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

But you see, you're stating outright that these are bad frames rather than voicing it as your opinion.

They are not, you just haven't found a way of making them work. That's fine, not everyone can make every frame work for them.

But given your post it doesn't sound like you've actually dedicated much time to trying, it's almost impossible to have an educated opinion on a frames actual pros and cons unless you dedicate time to playing them, exploring different builds and so on.

And without an educated opinion you can't make educated posts on the matter.

OP's point in a nutshell.

Yes. Thank you.

14 minutes ago, NativeKiller said:

Your argument is valid and reasonable...

 

BUT opinions are subjective.

 

Also, people are free to talk about a Warframe even if they don't have millions of xp on them.

 

For example, I talk shiet about Oberon even if I don't have much experience with it.

 

It's because I personally tested him out for a few hours and found him to be so lackluster... and never bothered with him anymore.

 

Just saying. :3

I can understand that, but rather than simply stating it as an opinion, they seem to be making a claim, which they argue pretty strongly about, despite how much I can show for my argument. If they simply are just stating their opinion without claiming to be well informed then they should consider this...

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

The fact remains that when you share an opinion, you share it as an opinion.

 

[Danjal777]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

Rather than wasting time on a skill that does flat damage, you are better off switching to a frame that CCs instead. That's the point.

Why are you assuming the haven't?

Wow...rude much?

In my experience Oberon is a tough Warframe not only to play, but to mod for.  I have tried a ton of different loadouts, my biggest issue with him that he relys on almost every stat.  When I finally found the balance i needed, he was very effective, and useful in sorties.  I generally don't enjoy playing anything that's above level 100 as it starts to feel like the rules are breaking down and you have to use meta to bypass the rules.  While that style of play is commendable as it creates a very creative use of symbiosis between frames, the difference between fighting level 120-1200 is really nothing, just keep using an exploit and stay alive.  

I prefer to use skill.  Where you see Saryn as a walking viral proc, I see shock troop that can hold her own with hit and run tactics.  Warframe is weird that way, you have people that treat it as an RPG and focus on the stats, and others who treat it like an action game and focus on the skill. 

I will say this though:. Oberon will always take far more effort than many other frames.  He's not bad, you just need to use more abilities, more skill, movement, and tactics.  

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

41 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I would never say ''Green is the best colour''

You could, and that is what that game teaches you. It's just the way the English language works. An opinion is still an opinion, even if you don't specifically call it out as one.

33 minutes ago, Danjal777 said:

Wow...rude much?

Rude? How so?

He isn't tough to use or mod. You just mod for efficiency and spam Reckoning.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Rude? How so?

He isn't tough to use or mod. You just mod for efficiency and spam Reckoning.

That's a good option, but far from his best. I think a quarter of my endgame builds have max efficiency. I usually just have Fleeting Expertise.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

but far from his best

I disagree. The best he is good for is bargain bin CC. Trinity is far and away better for healing, and there are plenty of frames out there that are better at CC or debufing.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I disagree. The best he is good for is bargain bin CC. Trinity is far and away better for healing, and there are plenty of frames out there that are better at CC or debufing.

But he's our best multitasker. If you try any singular role with him, yeah you'll get outclassed, but how many warframes can heal, CC, buff, and damage well all at the same time? That's what I build him to do in most cases, and my best unspecialized build works wonders by doing that.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

multitasker

Jack of all trades; MASTER OF NONE

People always seem to forget that second part. It is why he will never be considered good.