Warframe Builds Are Really Boring...But It's Starting To Get Better With Nekros

[KuroNekoXlll]

Listen up thick headed maggots

Warframes generally do not have interesting builds and that needs to change, either through more interesting augments, abilility 2.0, modding 3.0, focus 2.0. Whatever. 

53 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Sure, as soon as we get some ability mechanics that could actually mesh with some of the unique mods. 

Yes, that is indeed an excellent idea, that is basically what this thread is trying to suggest; interesting synergies that could be made between mods, augments etc. should be considered when designing future mods. 

39 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Seeing as it's abilities that define the frame, and they only have four abilities, how many roles do you think each frame can fill?

I would not suggest to go as far as giving warframes new roles. Nekros's desecrate has pretty much been solely used to farm extra resources but because of how amazing Despoil augment and it's interactions with TWO other mods, this seemingly innocent farm simulation skill has been transformed into a defensive buff.

Health conversion and equillibirum, unlike power strength,duration,range etc. indirectly enhances/changes the use for Desecrate in ways other than "more range" or "cheaper cost". 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by KuroNekoXlll

[AtroSpiker]

3 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Sad part is those two Simaris mods didn't even have a purpose until desecrate toggle change happened. And even then, it wasn't intentional. 

Yeah but there are other frames who can make really good use of it. 

If you remember Ash & Energy Conversion with Carrier. He kept that additional 50% power strength going with his Bladestorm. You can still do that too by the way.

Those two mods aren't only useful for Nekros, they are kinda useful for other warframes too but they are the most convenient for Nekros with greater synergy.

Edited December 6, 2016 by AtroSpiker

[AtroSpiker]

3 minutes ago, KuroNekoXlll said:

Listen up thick headed maggots

Warframes generally do not have interesting builds and that needs to change, either through more interesting augments, abilility 2.0, modding 3.0, focus 2.0. Whatever. 

Yes, that is indeed an excellent idea, that is basically what this thread is trying to suggest; interesting synergies that could be made between mods, augments etc. should be considered when designing future mods. 

I would not suggest to go as far as giving warframes new roles. Nekros's desecrate has pretty much been solely used to farm extra resources but because of how amazing Despoil augment and it's interactions with TWO other mods, this seemingly innocent farm simulation skill has been transformed into a defensive buff.

Health conversion and equillibirum, unlike power strength,duration,range etc. indirectly enhances/changes the use for Desecrate in ways other than "more range" or "cheaper cost". 

 

YEAH LIKE THAT!^

THIS GUY GETS IT!

Edited December 6, 2016 by AtroSpiker

[ChuckMaverick]

2 minutes ago, KuroNekoXlll said:

Health conversion and equillibirum, unlike power strength,duration,range etc. indirectly enhances/changes the use for Desecrate in ways more than "more range" or "cheaper cost". 

Not really, desecrate still does what it always did, only now that it has the nice synergy with Despoil and Health Conversion you're tankier while doing it.

It doesn't fundamentally change the role Nekros has in a party.

[AtroSpiker]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Not really, desecrate still does what it always did, only now that it has the nice synergy with Despoil and Health Conversion you're tankier while doing it.

It doesn't fundamentally change the role Nekros has in a party.

 

5 minutes ago, KuroNekoXlll said:

I would not suggest to go as far as giving warframes new roles. Nekros's desecrate has pretty much been solely used to farm extra resources but because of how amazing Despoil augment and it's interactions with TWO other mods, this seemingly innocent farm simulation skill has been transformed into a defensive buff.

 

[Xgomme]

People plays "meta" and lazy things, but if you have 10 fingers the game is actually really deep

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

6 hours ago, Gelkor said:

Does Hallowed Reckoning count for the spawning a health orb or something? Mind if I see build?

I use Growing Power, R3 Fleeting Expertise, Streamline, Hallowed Reckoning, Rage, Transient Fortitude, Stretch, Health Conversion, and Vitality. For whatever reason, I had nothing in my exilus slot, even though I could've.

[RextintorZ]

My Nekros build has: Equilibrium, Health Conversion, Despoil and Soul Survivor. It's pretty great for Survival and the occasional high level missions in which you can ressuscitate people with the augmented Soul Punch.

Together with Naramon focus and Telos Boltace with Primed Reach and Maiming Strike, it's fun as hell.

Edited December 6, 2016 by RextintorZ

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

7 hours ago, Gelkor said:

Sad part is those two Simaris mods didn't even have a purpose until desecrate toggle change happened. And even then, it wasn't intentional. 

energy conversion is actually very useful on frames with exhalted weapons.  as the damage boost lasts the entire time it's active.

[ThunderZsolt]

7 hours ago, AtroSpiker said:

Tweaking power strength/duration/range values to fit your personal preference is important but does not make for a "different" build.

Warframe builds are still 10x more interesting than weapon builds.

Weapons have very few stats, and the damage/DPS is obviously the only really important. (Maybe mag size/reload speed on a few weapons like the tigris) Because of this, weapon building goes like:

1. put all dmg+multishot mods on
2. put crit mods on if the weapon is crit viable
3. put dual stat event mods on if the weapon is status viable, otherwise use normal +90% elementals
4. if you still have slots left, add punch through/reload speed

It got slightly better with shadow debt mods, but those are either uber good, or not worth using. Same with corrupted mods (heavy caliber all the way except on bows/snipers, vile acceleration and depleted reload are decent on some weapons, all the others get neglected 99% of the time)

 

On the other hand, warframes have survivability (HP, armor, shield, QT), mobility (sprint speed, slide/friction, bullet jump) and powers (maximum energy, and power strength, range, duration and efficiency). Also, there are other stats like knockdown resist/recovery, which are useful unlike maximum ammo. On top of that, there are the ability augment mods.

Even if you only count "meta" builds focused on ability usage, there are a lot of choices to be made:
for example if you build for strength: use blind rage, or not? (which leads to further questions, like: Zenurik or naramon? Do I need syndicate weapon to restore my energy? Is the frame rage-viable?)
How many mod slots do you use for strength? All 4 is surely overkill, but then you could use overextended. All in all, when you say "power strength build" other players might think about using completely different mods.
Having lots of good mods but limited space forces you to make trade-offs, corrupted mods force you to make even more trade-offs (or you can have the weaker builds without them). Do you compensate, or ignore the downsides?

And than we have the full tank Inaros/Zephyr/Rhino builds (lots of other frames work too) with no power mods, parkour/mobility focused builds (Nezha, and Zephyr again, max sprint speed Ash) which are tons of fun, and surprisingly effective with the right weapons.

For me, the most interesting part is when you think you have finally come up with the new optimal build, but it would require completely different polarities than your current build (which you intend to keep too, so simply re-forma isn't an option, and you don't feel like buying a second limbo/mirage/chroma/titania/inaros)
In the end, all my frames end up with only 1-2 unpolarized mod slots, wasting many forma in the process. I know that warframe-builder is a thing, but still.

 

It is the narrow minded players who pick the frame's "best" ability, min-max it and scrap everything else. That is boring.

 

TLDR: Sure, everything could be better, but experimenting with warframe builds is the most exciting game mechanic that keeps me playing.

P.S.: sorry about the long post, but this topic is important to me

 

 

[AtroSpiker]

On 12/6/2016 at 8:31 AM, Krumplifej said:

Warframe builds are still 10x more interesting than weapon builds.

Weapons have very few stats, and the damage/DPS is obviously the only really important. (Maybe mag size/reload speed on a few weapons like the tigris) Because of this, weapon building goes like:

1. put all dmg+multishot mods on
2. put crit mods on if the weapon is crit viable
3. put dual stat event mods on if the weapon is status viable, otherwise use normal +90% elementals
4. if you still have slots left, add punch through/reload speed

It got slightly better with shadow debt mods, but those are either uber good, or not worth using. Same with corrupted mods (heavy caliber all the way except on bows/snipers, vile acceleration and depleted reload are decent on some weapons, all the others get neglected 99% of the time)

 

On the other hand, warframes have survivability (HP, armor, shield, QT), mobility (sprint speed, slide/friction, bullet jump) and powers (maximum energy, and power strength, range, duration and efficiency). Also, there are other stats like knockdown resist/recovery, which are useful unlike maximum ammo. On top of that, there are the ability augment mods.

Even if you only count "meta" builds focused on ability usage, there are a lot of choices to be made:
for example if you build for strength: use blind rage, or not? (which leads to further questions, like: Zenurik or naramon? Do I need syndicate weapon to restore my energy? Is the frame rage-viable?)
How many mod slots do you use for strength? All 4 is surely overkill, but then you could use overextended. All in all, when you say "power strength build" other players might think about using completely different mods.
Having lots of good mods but limited space forces you to make trade-offs, corrupted mods force you to make even more trade-offs (or you can have the weaker builds without them). Do you compensate, or ignore the downsides?

And than we have the full tank Inaros/Zephyr/Rhino builds (lots of other frames work too) with no power mods, parkour/mobility focused builds (Nezha, and Zephyr again, max sprint speed Ash) which are tons of fun, and surprisingly effective with the right weapons.

For me, the most interesting part is when you think you have finally come up with the new optimal build, but it would require completely different polarities than your current build (which you intend to keep too, so simply re-forma isn't an option, and you don't feel like buying a second limbo/mirage/chroma/titania/inaros)
In the end, all my frames end up with only 1-2 unpolarized mod slots, wasting many forma in the process. I know that warframe-builder is a thing, but still.

 

It is the narrow minded players who pick the frame's "best" ability, min-max it and scrap everything else. That is boring.

 

TLDR: Sure, everything could be better, but experimenting with warframe builds is the most exciting game mechanic that keeps me playing.

P.S.: sorry about the long post, but this topic is important to me

 

 

I honestly kind of wish they brought back the two extra mod slots they took out.

Remember those? They were great.

[SenorClipClop]

On 12/5/2016 at 9:34 PM, AtroSpiker said:

Like don't you guys get tired of using the same three best builds for the same frame?

Melee Trinity, Savage Banshee, Nuker Limbo, Support Ash 

All of these work in Fortress-to-Sortie level mission. You just gotta get creative. PvE is relatively easy and is all about gathering resources and knowing what problems to expect; account for these and victory is a pretty sure thing. So don't make Warframe about if you can beat it, make it about how you beat it. Do you run Dark Souls with the early fire weapon you get, or do you try and make it through the run using only fist weapons? It's like that. And Warframe is co-op too, so it doesn't matter if you're optimal stat-wise, just that you can finish the mission. Those who keep to the "one build only" idea are either scared to experiment or must have an aversion to variety.

[AtroSpiker]

On 12/8/2016 at 0:44 AM, SenorClipClop said:

Melee Trinity, Savage Banshee, Nuker Limbo, Support Ash 

All of these work in Fortress-to-Sortie level mission. You just gotta get creative. PvE is relatively easy and is all about gathering resources and knowing what problems to expect; account for these and victory is a pretty sure thing. So don't make Warframe about if you can beat it, make it about how you beat it. Do you run Dark Souls with the early fire weapon you get, or do you try and make it through the run using only fist weapons? It's like that. And Warframe is co-op too, so it doesn't matter if you're optimal stat-wise, just that you can finish the mission. Those who keep to the "one build only" idea are either scared to experiment or must have an aversion to variety.

Those builds are still only mediocre compared to the one with Nekros and Health Converson & Energy Conversion.

Those two mods open up some doors and variety for Nekros with just his single ability.

[SenorClipClop]

7 minutes ago, AtroSpiker said:

Those builds are still only mediocre compared to the one with Nekros and Health Converson & Energy Conversion.

Those two mods open up some doors and variety for Nekros with just his single ability.

Buddy, I'm glad you're excited about your new Nekros build, but it doesn't overlook the fact that off-optimal builds can still totally work in anything that the game asks a player to do. The point here is that there are many, many builds out there that are totally viable, so you can basically play with whatever you like as long as you can back it up.

[AtroSpiker]

4 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Buddy, I'm glad you're excited about your new Nekros build, but it doesn't overlook the fact that off-optimal builds can still totally work in anything that the game asks a player to do. The point here is that there are many, many builds out there that are totally viable, so you can basically play with whatever you like as long as you can back it up.

Name me some optimal buffs, tell me more about your max power strength Loki Master race or maxed power strength Banshee or that maxed efficiency Limbo.

Yes...yes very interesting. You're totally missing the point.