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Ember, Low Level Bully


Leewee
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So, How many Ember/Ember Prime players have you seen recently that just press 4 at the beginning of a mission and just run around instantly deleting every enemy on the map?

For me? Legions of them, I can't get a single kill because World on Fire just obliterates everything in It's way. "Oh but Ember is fine, She sucks in Endgame" That's something I hear way too often when Ember Babies are confronted with their power trip of a Warframe.

 

Ember needs a rework more than any other Warframes in the game at the moment, It's killing all the fun of Relic farming.

The rest of Ember's kit is actually fun to use, Accelerant is very useful, and so is Fire Blast and Fireball, but World on Fire is just so incredibely broken and easy to use that you just need to press 4 to render 1,2 and 3 completely useless.

DE, could we please make Ember fun again? I want all of her abilities to be equally as good/fun. 

 

- Mephiste

Edited by Melitics
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I still end up usign her in sorties in combination with her 2 and 3 whiel 4 is running to take down enemys who can withstand WoF, it all depends on your modding and playstyle really.

She still is squishy and won't survive direct hits so she relays on her powers to stun or knockdown with WoF Augment for example. I say in my eyes Ember is the most balanced frame so far even with how you have and can combine her powers.

In low lvl every frame can do alot, take Equinoxs bleeding, it also kills all on touch in low lvl, thats why its low lvl after all.

Bombards, CorpusTech, etc. still withstand it heavily.

Edited by Marine027
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3 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

 I say in my eyes Ember is the msot balacned frame so far

1366928929077.png Oh Lord my sides. Your argument is exactly what I mentioned with Ember Babies.

"She sucks in Endgame so she's balanced"

Edited by Melitics
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5 minutes ago, Melitics said:

 "Oh but Ember is fine, She sucks in Endgame" That's something I hear way too often when Ember Babies are confronted with their power trip of a Warframe.

I don't think you understand.

Ember's REAL use of power is CC, and when modded correctly, she's virtually untouchable because anything that can shoot her is currently unable to get up off the ground, or is having their eyes melted out of their sockets. THAT is her endgame potential, and she's actually really good at it. Damage wise, she falls off almost instantly beyond anything past lvl25. Try taking a damage WoF build to the sorties. You'll find out real fast what her high-end killing potential is.

 

As for her 4 in low level missions, yeah. She's awesome. Because its low level. Once you get past a certain level, just about every frame in the game can rape low-levels. This is not news. If you don't want to her to kill low-level enemies, don't play low-level missions. Or, better yet, do what I do: play solo. You can just about complete every single challenge the game has to offer solo. Provided you have the gear.

Hope this was enlightening.

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Just now, Melitics said:

What part of deleting every enemy on the map while casually strolling around is "awesome"? I'm at a loss.

You are at a loss because you're ignoring the rest of my post. She can destroy low-level enemies, because low level enemies are beginner cannon fodder. I'm not sure why you're ignoring this fact. Warframe is a game about building your way to mastery of the game slowly, and beginner enemies eventually become invalid, because they simply become too easy. You're saying that she's OP because she can instakill enemies that you encounter in the beginning stages of the game. That is a regular thing in videogames. The higher you get, the easier the lower-level content is. But her damage potential DOES fall off, she can't just instakill all the way up to lvl200. She IS balanced, because she can kill trash and stun threats. Why are you complaining about her being able to kill beginner content?

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1 minute ago, Melitics said:

What part of deleting every enemy on the map while casually strolling around is "awesome"? I'm at a loss.

Dude, are you really saying that easely killing hordes of low lvl enemies means she's OP? Have you ever heard of the Mirage and Simulor combo? This, my friend, is a real problem since it is really way too OP. Ember is good, not OPl. If you cry because an Ember steal you kills, remember that any Warframe can do it. 

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Just now, JarkayPahnts45 said:

You are at a loss because you're ignoring the rest of my post. She can destroy low-level enemies, because low level enemies are beginner cannon fodder. I'm not sure why you're ignoring this fact. Warframe is a game about building your way to mastery of the game slowly, and beginner enemies eventually become invalid, because they simply become too easy. You're saying that she's OP because she can instakill enemies that you encounter in the beginning stages of the game. That is a regular thing in videogames. The higher you get, the easier the lower-level content is. But her damage potential DOES fall off, she can't just instakill all the way up to lvl200. She IS balanced, because she can kill trash and stun threats. Why are you complaining about her being able to kill beginner content?

There is a difference though. Ember can just press 4 and go sit on the Cryopod while everything dies around her, even Nova who's considerably stronger has to actually shoot enemies to trigger her Ultimate.

 

And I'm not complaining about her killing beginner enemies, I'm complaining about the fact that she does it so easily with no effort or any input whatsoever.

Who's the one not reading now?

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1 minute ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Dude, are you really saying that easely killing hordes of low lvl enemies means she's OP? Have you ever heard of the Mirage and Simulor combo? This, my friend, is a real problem since it is really way too OP. Ember is good, not OPl. If you cry because an Ember steal you kills, remember that any Warframe can do it. 

Already aware of Simulor Mirage. But that's not a Warframe trait is it? Besides you actually need to move around and shoot, and re-cast your 1 with Mirage.

As I've mentionned above, Ember can just press 4 and go chill on the Cryopod.

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Expected a whine thread - i´m not disappointed... :thumbup:

But lets go to the point, you complain that ember cleares low level enemies and you cant stroke your ego at mission summary screen because she killed more? Really? Really?

Excuse me but your : "Oh but Ember is fine, She sucks in Endgame"  is the same BS as ignoring the fact that embers WoF is great low-mid game content and later on its a good CC with augment only. Open your eyes and stop throwing players into your imaginary bag. Once you will have enought hours played you will see, that you want the job to be done as most efficent as possible. 

Another thing that i disagree with you is that she NEEDS a rework like no other frame.... Oberon,hydroid,limbo,zephyr, still crying in the corner.

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10 minutes ago, Melitics said:

Already aware of Simulor Mirage. But that's not a Warframe trait is it? Besides you actually need to move around and shoot, and re-cast your 1 with Mirage.

As I've mentionned above, Ember can just press 4 and go chill on the Cryopod.

I'm talking about the strongest combo in the game, that can wipe anything even in Sorties, and that's all you have to say?

You say you're arleady aware, but you can't even see the difference between the worst map-wiping combo and a simple Ult killing weaklings barely able to kill each other. 

 

6 minutes ago, Melitics said:

Ahhh, But you see...

YHJ2

Oh wow, you insulted him with an image to protect you from what he said! So mature, it can almost match my sarcasm!

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5 minutes ago, Yami666 said:

Expected a whine thread - i´m not disappointed... :thumbup:

But lets go to the point, you complain that ember cleares low level enemies and you cant stroke your ego at mission summary screen because she killed more? Really? Really?

Excuse me but your : "Oh but Ember is fine, She sucks in Endgame"  is the same BS as ignoring the fact that embers WoF is great low-mid game content and later on its a good CC with augment only. Open your eyes and stop throwing players into your imaginary bag. Once you will have enought hours played you will see, that you want the job to be done as most efficent as possible. 

Another thing that i disagree with you is that she NEEDS a rework like no other frame.... Oberon,hydroid,limbo,zephyr, still crying in the corner.

First of all you assume this is all about my ego? Wrong.

Also, Ember as a CC? Is that really what you expect from the dedicated FIRE Warframe? CC? Not damage, but CC.

Did you even read your own post?

P.S: Oberon is fine, Hydroid is fine, Limbo is fine, Zephyr could use some flying.

You're one of "those" people that claim Oberon, Hydroid and Limbo are terrible while praising Ember. You keep thinking that, mate if it helps you sleep at night.

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2 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

And you are saying that every frame is fine BUT Ember, wich is at least just as bad.

Again, You're wrong.

Alot of frames could use some reworking, Zephyr, Hydroid even. ( Zephyr still cannot fly. Her Kit is half useless. )

But you can keep assuming things and being wrong if you'd like. I mean at this point you've already dug yourself pretty deep so why not keep going?

Edited by Melitics
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1 minute ago, Melitics said:

First of all you assume this is all about my ego? Wrong.

Also, Ember as a CC? Is that really what you expect from the dedicated FIRE Warframe? CC? Not damage, but CC.

Did you even read your own post?

P.S: Oberon is fine, Hydroid is fine, Limbo is fine, Zephyr could use some flying.

You're one of "those" people that claim Oberon, Hydroid and Limbo are terrible while praising Ember. You keep thinking that, mate if it helps you sleep at night.

To be honest i expected a picture, but i guess you ran out of ideas. And im absolutely sure about what i wrote. Once you reach certain point you will see that CC is they key.

And to the 4 frames you claimed as fine, dude, do you even played them or got carried at draco/bere huh? Dont worry about my sleep.

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Just now, Yami666 said:

To be honest i expected a picture, but i guess you ran out of ideas. And im absolutely sure about what i wrote. Once you reach certain point you will see that CC is they key.

And to the 4 frames you claimed as fine, dude, do you even played them or got carried at draco/bere huh? Dont worry about my sleep.

You've pretty much confirmed my point when you mentioned Draco/Bere. HURRR MUH PERFECT META TEAM.

Also "CC is key", Wow did you find that out on your own? Good job, Proud of ya, But again... Is CC really what should be expected from a Fire Based Warframe? 

P.S: Oberon, Hydroid and Zephyr are still fun to play, Stay safe in that little Meta-Elitist bubble of yours, I'll be having fun.

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5 minutes ago, Melitics said:

You've pretty much confirmed my point when you mentioned Draco/Bere. HURRR MUH PERFECT META TEAM.

Also "CC is key", Wow did you find that out on your own? Good job, Proud of ya, But again... Is CC really what should be expected from a Fire Based Warframe? 

P.S: Oberon, Hydroid and Zephyr are still fun to play, Stay safe in that little Meta-Elitist bubble of yours, I'll be having fun.

You look like a quick backen pro so i will not argue with you anymore.

Just for your info i dont have unlocked bere, and played draco when excal was the main frame for rep farming ( synoid gammacor sells were the reason) in that time i got from MR17 to 18. I rank up my stuff outside of the cancer nodes because i like to play not to leech and have my own places for powerleveling with having fun. And a a note to the "go full meta or go gome", i´m not that type of guy ;), i have other priorities ingame.

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1 minute ago, Yami666 said:

You look like a quick backen pro so i will not argue with you anymore.

Just for your info i dont have unlocked bere, and played draco when excal was the main frame for rep farming ( synoid gammacor sells were the reason) in that time i got from MR17 to 18. I rank up my stuff outside of the cancer nodes because i like to play not to leech and have my own places for powerleveling with having fun. And a a note to the "go full meta or go gome", i´m not that type of guy ;), i have other priorities ingame.

So let's resume... You played Draco with Meta Excal back in the day... You rank up outside the "cancer nodes" ( Wut?) 

And you like to play but not to leech, ...But you defend the fact that Ember can insta-clear entire maps in low level missions...

I mean, Do I really have to say anything? You've just played yourself, son.

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1 hour ago, Melitics said:

What part of deleting every enemy on the map while casually strolling around is "awesome"? I'm at a loss.

I'll try to explain the issue here: 

Ember has already been reworked over and over again. And WoF is hardly "OP". Yes, it kills stuff too easily at low levels, but then you get up a bit higher and it doesn't kill nearly so well, and you have to rely more on constant cc and keeping moving to stay alive. 

In fact, I could do the exact thing you are complaining about in your original post with Equinox's Maim and use even less effort (on low level missions). The reason Ember feels so OP early on is because their is no level capping (or whatever you personally call it) like in some MMO's, where you cap down to the highest level for that "zone". It also feels that way somewhat because armor scaling in this game is exponential -- a problem that causes us to need more power creep constantly, and a problem the devs have been working on a solution for for some time now. 

The problem is enemy scaling, this is what you are seeing. Enemy scaling hiking up exponentially means that you can go only ten levels higher and the enemies are way more well defended in comparison than really makes sense for most games. This means that Ember seems so strong early on, and so weak later because enemy scaling is broken. 

There are other frames that can cause this same problem as Ember -- she is just the flavor of them month for it. And overall, Ember is balanced and has already been reworked a bunch of times.

The problem is poor enemy scaling. When that is fixed, the problem you are talking about won't be such a problem anymore -- I expect the complaints will disappear then. But that will all be damage 3.0. Just give it time. 

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1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I'll try to explain the issue here: 

Ember has already been reworked over and over again. And WoF is hardly "OP". Yes, it kills stuff too easily at low levels, but then you get up a bit higher and it doesn't kill nearly so well, and you have to rely more on constant cc and keeping moving to stay alive. 

In fact, I could do the exact thing you are complaining about in your original post with Equinox's Maim and use even less effort (on low level missions). The reason Ember feels so OP early on is because their is no level capping (or whatever you personally call it) like in some MMO's, where you cap down to the highest level for that "zone". It also feels that way somewhat because armor scaling in this game is exponential -- a problem that causes us to need more power creep constantly, and a problem the devs have been working on a solution for for some time now. 

The problem is enemy scaling, this is what you are seeing. Enemy scaling hiking up exponentially means that you can go only ten levels higher and the enemies are way more well defended in comparison than really makes sense for most games. This means that Ember seems so strong early on, and so weak later because enemy scaling is broken. 

There are other frames that can cause this same problem as Ember -- she is just the flavor of them month for it. And overall, Ember is balanced and has already been reworked a bunch of times.

The problem is poor enemy scaling. When that is fixed, the problem you are talking about won't be such a problem anymore -- I expect the complaints will disappear then. But that will all be damage 3.0. Just give it time. 

The problem is really not the enemies, Is that Ember Overperforms at low level and Underperforms at higher levels ( Don't even start with MUH CC. ).

She needs a better, More practical Ult that actually fits within her kit and not cause the rest of it to be worthless in comparison. 

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2 minutes ago, Melitics said:

The problem is really not the enemies, Is that Ember Overperforms at low level and Underperforms at higher levels ( Don't even start with MUH CC. ).

Not to belabor the point, but the reason she overperforms at low levels and underperforms at high levels IS the enemies. Not her ult. I just explained that very thoroughly using several paragraphs lol. 

It is a problem that ALL Warframe damage abilities have to some extent, except for the few that ignore armor. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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