July 11Th: Community Hot Topics

[Superior234]

Are you gonna have a trading system in the game?

[winters.prime]

nice keep it up!

[ADDpillz]

Does #7 mean my Ash can become invisible again?

[Xylia]

RE@Mak_Gohae:

 

 

No, no, no, no, no......

This game is stupid easy, dont go on to change the one thing that actually has me keeping any sort of attention when i'm playing. Keeping aware of your environment so i can navigate through all the obstacles while using all the tools you have given us is something that everyone should learn to do. Dont start adjusting stuff for people who REFUSE to play any other way but their own even if its completely useless.

 

Knockdowns and loss of character control is VERY annoying. It is THE most aggravating thing in any game, whether it is Warframe or any MMORPG. When used too often, you end up spending more time watching your character being knocked face-flat on the ground, stunned and unable to move, or in the most BS example, games that have Fears. Yeah, I love watching my character run around in random directions (sometimes being forced outside of the terrain to fall to their death).

 

There ARE ways to reduce Knockdowns/Staggers but yet give OTHER things that we players need to watch out for. Grineer Napalms are a good example -- they only knock you down if you try to melee them. If you stay at range, the splash AoE on their Napalms hurt. But they don't knock you down, and they don't stagger you. They just hurt and deal DoT.

 

 

 

You guys made ammo boxes a complete waste of space because you folks caved in to the people who REFUSED to learn any sort of ammo conversation or use items you provided to help with this.

 

With the "More Health, More Armor, More More More!" in Void... many weapons were made useless, with or without ammo boxes or "ammo conservation". Without ridiculously good mods, many weapons are just not viable as it is. Doesn't matter how awesome of a shot you are, those Afuris or Dual Vipers aren't going to last very long. Neither is that Gorgon, or that Boar. This is a huge flaw with any "Fast Firing Weapon That Does Low Damage".

 

 

 

The one thing that this game has that is extremely fun is figuring out different methods to deal with the enemies using all the different options that you have given us and if you are going to start removing certain obstacles from enemies that is going to remove those different methods of play.

 

And who is to say we can't add more stuff in its place, mmm? Knockdowns/Staggers are annoying. Removing them will lessen the challenge, that's why we add other less-annoying stuff to replace it.

 

 

 

We are SPACE NINJAS! for all the gods sake! Dont devolve the gameplay to im standing over here shooting at you while you stand over there and shooting me back. Having enemies that attack at all different ranges, enemies that make you react in different ways is what keeps gameplay alive.

 

We already have different enemies that attack differently. Some of them have too many staggers and knockdowns. Ancient Disruptors for example. They take ALL of your Shields, ALL of your Energy, AND knock you down on the ground entirely. Is that REALLY necessary? That's a bit over-the-top, IMO. Same for Toxic Ancients. And sometimes you will find 4-5 of these stupid things in one room and later levels, they have simply ridiculous health. Trying to run away from one and keep it at range only ends up attracting MORE of them.

 

 

A- You cant hit every base all the time. People are always going to complain about something. I dont think you can make one event both be team and solo play, what you are going to have to do is separate the event into two parts where one is for solo and one is for team and then make sure that one cant be exploited for the other. So the easiest way is to just have separate events. One event for team then the next event that comes up it's for the individuals. 

 

Some complaints are valid. Some are not. And there's easy ways to make something Solo and Not Solo at the same time. The entire game of Warframe does that fairly well. Nearly any mission (other than extremely high Defense and maybe Void 3) can be done either Solo or Full Group equally. Obviously, its easier with a group, but still. The group play is still fun.

 

Why can't events be like this? This past event.... all they needed to do is double the kills needed and allow kills to count team-wide. BAM. Solo and Group Event. How hard is that?

 

 

 

B- If you dont come to the board or look at your Youtube page you are simply not going to know. There were people that had no idea about the Warframe changes. There was a dude in a Defense mission asking what was up with this Roar thing and where was my Radial Blast. The only way to solve this is for you folks to continuously update the launcher whenever something is done because if people do not keep up with the game in any way the game telling them is the only option.

 

There's an in-game ticker with HTTP links you can click. lol. It is fairly hard to miss when it says right there, in-game, "NEW EVENT THIS WEEKEND X-Y!" It is shown RIGHT BESIDE THE ALERTS which people already see and check regularly.

 

 

 

C- You already get a reward for participating, i dont think you should then get extra rewards because you gave it your best shot. You already had enough spots for folks to get the extra rewards. But if you folks want to give extra stuff just be ready for the "feedback" about the rewards..... anyone can see this coming.

 

The problem with this last event, is once you killed 20, you were done. Unless you were a no-lifer capable of playing Warframe for 72 hours straight.

 

What we wanted to see was....

 

Snipetron Vandal @ 20 kills.

Decent Uncommon Mod @ 100 kills. (I dunno, maybe Master Thief?)

Decent Rare Mod at @ 200 kills. (Split Chamber, since so many people have trouble finding one)

Awesome, Hard-to-Get Mod @ 500 kills.

New Event Mod @ 1000 kills.

 

And get rid of these "Top 100 Competitions" altogether.

 

That way, we're not encouraging the ridiculously unhealthy practices of playing a game 72 hours straight just to have a shot at an in-game item. If someone wants to play 72 hours, well, more power to them. We shouldn't be forcing players to feel like they have to do that, though, for a competition/leaderboard.

 

And it opens up the accessibility for more players, and encourages more players to actually partake of the event, instead of just killing 20 and going back to their other stuff and making the no-lifers carry the whole % meter themselves.

 

And, not to mention, those poor people who DID try for the leaderboard and fell under the Top-100. "Here's the Same Snipetron Vandal and Snipetron BP that the people who only killed 20 got!" ...... yeah that surely doesn't feel very good to the #101+ people.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Xylia

[honeybadger]

Oh, thank god! I'm so sick of getting up and getting knocked down again by 3 shield lancers and 2 heavy gunners. Bad experience.

You have several frames of knockback/down immunity right when you get up. Spam your escape skill as you are standing and you wont be hit again!

[ArsVampyre]

Note regarding 'Strict NAT': What does Warframe use port 80 and port 443 for? These are HTTP and HTTPS, respectively, and I've no reason why I think my computer should be running a webserver to run Warframe. The game itself does NOT list these ports to forward.

[Xylia]

You have several frames of knockback/down immunity right when you get up. Spam your escape skill as you are standing and you wont be hit again!

 

What if you're out of energy?

 

What if you're in a frame that doesn't have that type of skill?

 

etc..

[honeybadger]

What if you're out of energy?

 

What if you're in a frame that doesn't have that type of skill?

 

etc..

Jump.

[Delgear]

I didn't see it listed but I heard they where taking a look at the Loki in a previous thread. I suddenly had a great idea use it if you want its on the house, but I could use a job if you need warframe idea boxes :p

 

I know that the Loki has had a rough balancing life as invisibility becoming too powerful allows for a non play environment in pvp or a cheese your way through the mission type dynamic. If the melee damage goes to high bosses start becoming 1 shot able if its too low no one will use the Loki. I decided the best way I could come up with was to avoid the issue entirely and rework the Loki. so I had a brain storm ... see below.

 

25 energy :: Enemy of my enemy :: Makes target enemy look like the Loki (so allies won't kill it by accident) enemies will be drawn to attack it.

 

50 energy :: Jesters Prank :: creates a clone that attacks for light damage and draws enemies to it. it lasts until its health is gone or after an initial amount of time if no enemies are in sight to attack. jesters prank may be recast with a clone up to swap positions with any clone on the field.

 

75 energy :: Detonate Clones :: Causes Illusionary army and jesters prank clones to detonate causing area of effect Heavy armor penetrating damage. (the clones are gone)

 

100 energy :: Illusionary army :: creates 3 clones in random positions that move slightly around the Loki and attack for light damage and draw enemy fire in all other regards they function like jesters prank clones. Player may activate Illusionary army with jesters clone up or vica versa.

 

I came up with this as I realized the Loki seems to have a hodge-podge of other class touching abilities (stealth like ashe and teleport similar to ashe) (clone taunts like rhino abilities)(and radial disarm really has very limited usages but is similar to radial blind but less effective) this would allow the Loki to take on more of a manipulator trickster role and add some damage to its dismal damage kit. and also free up invisibility to be taken on by ashe as a role which you could then reduce the ashe frames durability making it more of an "all out offense" type frame and let its smoke bomb last longer and "toughen up the Loki" to be more like the ashe in durability now thus their being a tradeoff for the increased damage.  maybe change the ashes teleport to be a teleport melee strike single target // normal teleport if it targets an ally. this would open up other sentinels to be useful on the loki as well the shade could be used for a confuse and run type strategy or the wyrm could be used to be like a Stunner crowd control minion tank, or the deathcube and all those clones firing at range could be used for damage depending on mods making it much more flexible than it currently is in tactics. and making it combo more with mainstream mods like focus // flow // stretch // continuity.

[Xylia]

Jump.

 

Uh, dunno what game you've been playing, but Jumping does not give you knockdown immunity. The only thing Jumping does is allow you to avoid the Shockwaves from Moas and Jackal/Hyena.

 

I know for a fact Heavy Gunners and Napalms will still bat you right out of the air and knock you flat on the ground. I'm pretty sure Shield Lancers will do the same.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if the Ancients did too. Haven't tested it with those guys yet.

 

@Delgear: LOKI? They're taking a look at LOKI? Wtf... Loki's already fairly good. But it takes a skilled player to really put him to good use.

 

They could use a little more confusion after a Switch Teleport, and maybe the Decoys could last longer, and Invisibility should apply to your Sentinel, but those are just minor tweaks.

 

The abilities themselves are fine, they just need tweaked a little.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Xylia

[Delgear]

Umm..... really ? I don't think player skill is going to make up for how much a slobber knocker of extra damage the ashe is and is still tankier to say nothing of the frames that are dominating right now like frost // volt and ember // saryn and they are all extremely tankier than the loki. The loki shares underwear with only the trinity and the trinity can heal itself.  By clicking one button in a crowd on ashe you can do 13000 damage or more with blade storm eyes closed for those 6 seconds or spamming shuriken on bosses for thousands of damage a second. I think you are confusing "playable" with the word balanced.

[Saiyanjin1]

I know this is kinda promoting another game but I think that a game called Forsaken World (MMO) had the best trading system of any game (that I've played).

 

It was very simple, some things that you already used or equipped to yourself would be bound and cannot be traded again (they had items that could unbound stuff but it obviously was rare/expensive).

 

Same with the 50 plat a new player gets, make it so that that Plat is bound to only that account.

[Xylia]

Umm..... really ? I don't think player skill is going to make up for how much a slobber knocker of extra damage the ashe is and is still tankier to say nothing of the frames that are dominating right now like frost // volt and ember // saryn and they are all extremely tankier than the loki. The loki shares underwear with only the trinity and the trinity can heal itself.  By clicking one button in a crowd on ashe you can do 13000 damage or more with blade storm eyes closed for those 6 seconds or spamming shuriken on bosses for thousands of damage a second. I think you are confusing "playable" with the word balanced.

 

Uh.

 

So by that logic, a frame is only good if you can heal or do ridiculous damage right?

 

Loki is not supposed to be getting hit often in the first place; he has Decoy, Switch Teleport, Invisibility and Radial Disarm. ALL FOUR of these skills are tailored to making sure you DON'T get hit more than a few times. Trinity has none of these, except Link.

 

Ashe cane doe ridiculouse damagee withe hise ultimatee juste likee anye othere warframee whoe hase ae damagee dealinge ultimatee cane. (sorry, couldn't resist...)

 

Loki's Ultimate is to stop enemies from doing damage in the first place, which is a very useful defensive skill. Trinity also has a damageless "Ultimate" skill.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Xylia

[Delgear]

@ silver hunter Right but the ashe completely fills and exceeds his role in every way his stealth although shorter is almost the same damage buff to melee and an AOE Stun.

Decoy is rendered useless by all the enemies you want to crowd control being instantly dead.

switch teleport is not significantly different without some mechanic or trap to leave for the swapped enemy like a detonating clone

Invisibility is still bugged and you get hit and killed by incidental fire aimed at your sentinel what i'm saying friend is that the trinity will do more damage and add more to a team every time because it can heal itself and allies and STAY IN THE FIGHT INDEFINITELY with most energy dropping bosses or hard high level defense missions where if the loki misses one cooldown on decoy he gets insta-gibbed and killed form full health making all his abilities useless. Radial disarm is only marginally useful they can still attack and for almost the same damage it doesn't even deactivate floater drones for the corpus but for like 1 second. The loki adds NOTHING that isn't filled better by another role the rhino is a better "decoy" as it has crowd control and damage and temporary damage mitigation as well as a team buff, swap teleport is only marginally more useful than teleport.

Can you beat stages on the Loki? absolutely but if you take ANY other frame in the game you will do better and faster and add more to the team as their mechanics work better.You are missing the completeness of my argument, assuming i'm only talking about one small feature but I covered it pretty well. the loki is not only the worst suit out of the starting 3 it is the worst in the game right now hands down it serves absolutely no untrumpable role there is nothing it does well or even close to as well as a frame designed for its role like the ashe // rhino // trinity // frost all mitigate damage to the team with less risk , more effect and faster results. Ultimately the decoy is irrelevant if an ashe can instantly kill everything you think your crowd control is helping in any way

or the frost can freeze it and damage it at the same time, or the rhino can stomp and buff the teams damage while being immune. how little you get hit is kind of unimportant if your presence isn't helping the team at all its a moot point if he can escape well at this point as the rest of his kit makes that escaping ultimately pointless he has no threat to bring once he has escaped.

[DhoVakiiN]

thanks you so much to read our threads, and care about our opinions/ideas. 

 

awesome Staff!

[Mak_Gohae]

RE@Mak_Gohae:

 

Knockdowns and loss of character control is VERY annoying. It is THE most aggravating thing in any game, whether it is Warframe or any MMORPG. When used too often, you end up spending more time watching your character being knocked face-flat on the ground, stunned and unable to move, or in the most BS example, games that have Fears. Yeah, I love watching my character run around in random directions (sometimes being forced outside of the terrain to fall to their death).

 

 

Stuns and fears are aggravating when you do not have any ways to avoid them. In WoW when you fought enemies that feared you there were only 2 classes that had a counter to that, if you were not one of those classes would just hope that when you get feared, because it was going to happen, you would not run into the aggro range of another mob. It wasn't till they added trinkets that other classes could at least stop one fear every five minutes. 

 

In this game you have given several ways to avoid this, there isnt one unit in game that when they appear you WILL always get stagger and you have no option to avoid this.

 

There ARE ways to reduce Knockdowns/Staggers but yet give OTHER things that we players need to watch out for. Grineer Napalms are a good example -- they only knock you down if you try to melee them. If you stay at range, the splash AoE on their Napalms hurt. But they don't knock you down, and they don't stagger you. They just hurt and deal DoT.

 

This applies to every unit in the game that has a stagger, they are all balanced. The one unit that was hell was the zapper balls because they were small, and apparently no one watches the floor, and you couldnt do anything once caught.

 

With the "More Health, More Armor, More More More!" in Void... many weapons were made useless, with or without ammo boxes or "ammo conservation". Without ridiculously good mods, many weapons are just not viable as it is. Doesn't matter how awesome of a shot you are, those Afuris or Dual Vipers aren't going to last very long. Neither is that Gorgon, or that Boar. This is a huge flaw with any "Fast Firing Weapon That Does Low Damage".

 

There are several thing that people need to accept that they dont.

1. Not everything is going to be as effective as everything else. Not everything is going to be top tier.

2. You need to know the disadvantages of something then work around that or work to lessen that.

3. Hard content is supposed to be hard. If you are playing areas with level 80 enemies in the exact same way as areas with level 25 enemies there is a problem.

 

And who is to say we can't add more stuff in its place, mmm? Knockdowns/Staggers are annoying. Removing them will lessen the challenge, that's why we add other less-annoying stuff to replace it.

 

Not saying that they cant add im saying when you are removing something that isn't that difficult to deal with..... what are they going to replace with? They are not going to bring a new mechanic on the same level if they consider this a problem.

 

Too many units that stun/stagger?

Grinner have 2 short range staggers with the Radial Blast from Heavies and the rollers and one medium with the scorpion. 

Corpus have one medium range with the Shock MOA and one long range with the Railgun MOA.

And the infested have everything but that's because they are melee only faction.

 

That's too many? There's 5 types plus one faction's theme.

 

We already have different enemies that attack differently. Some of them have too many staggers and knockdowns. Ancient Disruptors for example. They take ALL of your Shields, ALL of your Energy, AND knock you down on the ground entirely. Is that REALLY necessary? That's a bit over-the-top, IMO. Same for Toxic Ancients. And sometimes you will find 4-5 of these stupid things in one room and later levels, they have simply ridiculous health. Trying to run away from one and keep it at range only ends up attracting MORE of them.

 

Those things walk toward you, man.... you cant come up with a plan with all the options you have to take these things down? Soloing with that big of a number plus standard units may be a problem with certain frames but that is a problem of unit numbers and not of the unit themselves. They shouldn't adjust the unit they should look at their spawn rate for solo content.

You are talking about solo content right? Cause with team content the Ancients following you is an advantage. I "corralled" a bunch of Ancients in defense missions away from pods that was both funny and useful.

Some complaints are valid. Some are not. And there's easy ways to make something Solo and Not Solo at the same time. The entire game of Warframe does that fairly well. Nearly any mission (other than extremely high Defense and maybe Void 3) can be done either Solo or Full Group equally. Obviously, its easier with a group, but still. The group play is still fun.

 

Why can't events be like this? This past event.... all they needed to do is double the kills needed and allow kills to count team-wide. BAM. Solo and Group Event. How hard is that?

 

Events are addition to missions instead of an actual new missions so you cant really compare THE game proper to one little thing put in for the weekend.

 

And team kills counting for all in a team will create the obvious problem that in a team it will more efficient to up your solo score since in a team you can get through the content faster. So if team kills are counted for the individual score the people running alone are going to be in a serious disadvantage.

 

The best solution is just have a 2 part event, two separate events, or one event for teams then the next event for solo.

 

There's an in-game ticker with HTTP links you can click. lol. It is fairly hard to miss when it says right there, in-game, "NEW EVENT THIS WEEKEND X-Y!" It is shown RIGHT BESIDE THE ALERTS which people already see and check regularly.

 

Who looks at that?

But seriously.... people need to have stuff thrown at their face to notice.

The launcher screaming into at you is an easy way.

 

 

The problem with this last event, is once you killed 20, you were done. Unless you were a no-lifer capable of playing Warframe for 72 hours straight.

 

20 kills just guaranteed you the snipertron IF the event was completed so if you think you were done....ok but you were relying on other folks to complete the mission. If it failed.... you were not done as you didnt help to push it to the actual complete state.

 

What we wanted to see was....

 

Snipetron Vandal @ 20 kills.

Decent Uncommon Mod @ 100 kills. (I dunno, maybe Master Thief?)

Decent Rare Mod at @ 200 kills. (Split Chamber, since so many people have trouble finding one)

Awesome, Hard-to-Get Mod @ 500 kills.

New Event Mod @ 1000 kills.

 

And get rid of these "Top 100 Competitions" altogether.

 

That way, we're not encouraging the ridiculously unhealthy practices of playing a game 72 hours straight just to have a shot at an in-game item. If someone wants to play 72 hours, well, more power to them. We shouldn't be forcing players to feel like they have to do that, though, for a competition/leaderboard.

 

And it opens up the accessibility for more players, and encourages more players to actually partake of the event, instead of just killing 20 and going back to their other stuff and making the no-lifers carry the whole % meter themselves.

 

And, not to mention, those poor people who DID try for the leaderboard and fell under the Top-100. "Here's the Same Snipetron Vandal and Snipetron BP that the people who only killed 20 got!" ...... yeah that surely doesn't feel very good to the #101+ people.

 

The tier thing is a kind of a double-edge sword in this discussion.

The goal of the event is to get people playing so if you set hard limits people are just going to find the easiest way to get there and once they are done they are just going to stop.

 

Setting hard limits might also tempt people to play MORE than they normally would. I browsed the board during the last event and saw a lot of folks saying, "I got 100/200/250 and im done." If you put flags on where people need to go to get something they might make the unhealthy decision to go past their breaking point.

[Cleesus]

Dont forget the amount of people/clans  who could win the prizes for the events was also a big problem. There isnt any reason to go beyond the call of duty if you only have an .5% chance to win.

 

There is thousands of people playing this game and only rewarding 100 people and like 3 clans from each tier isnt good enough.

 

The guy below me is on to something lol

Edited July 12, 2013 by theclinton

[iBrigandi]

Putting tiers into killing things is a massive Skinner Box. Its not fun grinding/killing stuff over and over. From being fun, it be a job or a chore. Please gives us a reason to kill in the meantime or something. Maybe a rare mod drop, blue print pieces or something. 

 

^The guy above beat me to the punch. If you know your not going to win why try. Those people that killed +1000 informers didnt do it because it was fun ill tell you that much. 

Edited July 12, 2013 by iBrigandi

[Mak_Gohae]

Dont forget the amount of people/clans  who could win the prizes for the events was also a big problem. There isnt any reason to go beyond the call of duty if you only have an .5% chance to win.

 

There is thousands of people playing this game and only rewarding 100 people and like 3 clans from each tier isnt good enough.

 

The guy below me is on to something lol

 

The main prize of the event was the weapon, early access to a mod and a statue for a dojo are not things that are super tremendous. Those things were just a bonus.

 

This was the clan prize possibilities.

 

1-10 members: Top 10 Clans

11-100 members: Top 5 clans

101-1000 members: Top 3 clans

1001+ members: Top 3 clans

[Xylia]

The main prize of the event was the weapon, early access to a mod and a statue for a dojo are not things that are super tremendous. Those things were just a bonus.

 

This was the clan prize possibilities.

 

1-10 members: Top 10 Clans

11-100 members: Top 5 clans

101-1000 members: Top 3 clans

1001+ members: Top 3 clans

 

Which is yet another point.

 

a Clan of 101 stood no chance against a clan of 800+.

 

No freaking way.

 

Or, for that matter, 11-15 people trying to compete against 80+ people.

 

They should have done it Avg By Person.

 

Say... Clan A has 11 people and they killed, collectively, 11,000

Clan B has 80 people and they killed, collectively, 72,000

 

Clan A wins, because avg per person is 1,000 for Clan A while Clan B only did 900 per person avg. Obviously there'd need to be a rule that a person would had to have killed >19 to count towards the clan's progress AND its average. Let's say Clan B actually has 95 people, but only 80 of them killed >19.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Xylia

[Advanced-]

Great replies the the current issues :)

Nothing else to say really, keep it up.

[RealEnex]

Some great stuff here keep going loving it <3

[Lumireaver]

Do we need winners? TF2 events are more about love and joy and sharing beautiful experiences together.

[Adagio]

and here i'll ask about this once again,

do you guys aware that there are people out there who plays using a USB modem, not a router, and / or even a router, that isn't able to port forwarding due to being disabled by their ISP ? (they need to buy a more expensive data plan per month in order to be able to port forward)

this is what happened to me, my friends, and almost all the ISP here where i live, they demand a ridiculous amount of money in order to be able to, monthly subscription, three times more expensive than our current data plan etc which i don't think it's rational to get that, or simply unable to keep up with our monthly income.

we have to come to one of a friend house and share one's connection using virtual router / VAPN in order to be able to play together once or twice in a week. in our own home, there's no way we can join each other, thus we always play the game in solo mode.

from that long time ago up 'till now, i haven't heard anything about you guys noticing this (my friend also gave a brief description and feedback about this matter too).

just a heads up, and i am aware that we are in the minority side, so i do not expect to have anything for this matter anytime soon.

[tworivers]

I enjoy playing warframe and keep up the good work. Changes are welcome and I see there is no shortage of idea's but bear in mind that you cannot please everyone. Myself I like the direction it is going and look forward to up coming adventures along with new developments.

 

Thanks