Will the forgotten ASH ever Be "rereworked"

[SoulEchelon]

11 minutes ago, FormulaXP said:

FINALLY! few people who actually care commented some problems and fixes while before the comments were "ASH IS PERFECT" >,< if he was perfect this thread wouldnt exist so many problems with ash could be fixed in like 24 hours..id pay DE a million Dollars to fix drames like ash hydroid oberon :c

No one said Ash was perfect. Nothing can be perfect. But saying he's trash and using opinionated statements while totally ignoring factual ones backed up with real information made the majority of people earlier disagree with your posts.

[Midrib]

Personally my issues with Ash are minimal, I've been playing him much more after the rework, and he has been my go to farming frame for Kuva flood missions.

I just think that his cinematic action shots should just be removed from his ult, a part of me thinks DE wanted to do that but they decided not to, to please the Ash fanbase, but personally I feel as if they are more of a stalemate then anything and they are just boring, not to mention how terrible they look whenever you get into a lobby that has a 80+ ping you end up just slashing the air.

Another change would be just integrating Seeking shuriken into his 1, that way he has a good way to deal with armor so that his 1 has an actual use outside of Level 1-30,

Otherwise I think his Smoke bomb and teleport are perfectly fine,

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

9 minutes ago, FormulaXP said:

how about like a nekros 4 ability? like has creates like 7-8 copies of him(player looks/colors) and they do blade strorm while you like like a exhalted dagger and a 75 % chance to finsher xd farfethced but yeah XD

Well everybody wanted Bladestorm to be only about these hidden blades in his arms not mindlessly teleporting and kill stuff with no effort, unfortunately DE made that lazy to stop the abusive use of the ability... 

They could've made the ability an exalted mode with these hidden blades, slashing and teleporting with a 30-50% chance for a kill assassination (finisher) or just a Shadow Clone Jutsu kind of thing but Noooo~ only agreed to stop the abusive behavior nothing else.

... I was actually hyped for the 4th rework x.x

Edited March 30, 2017 by (PS4)ArnnFrost

[ShadowStalker]

sigh..

Edited March 30, 2017 by FormulaXP
...

[SoulEchelon]

3 minutes ago, FormulaXP said:

the poster boys for warframe are all ignored :(

Ash -Pukestrom rework made even more pukey with 360 mouse spin..sigh..

Frost..No one even needs this dude anymore other then mid game def and with his snow can die on 10 seconds with few hits from bombbards :(..sigh

Excal-he was fine b4 why did they even give him damage fall of..sigh

LOL Wow I can't even...

yeah, just...no. My brain cells can't handle this any longer.

[TotallyLagging]

58 minutes ago, FormulaXP said:

Frost..No one even needs this dude anymore other then mid game def and with his snow can die on 10 seconds with few hits from bombbards :(..sigh

you know you can stack globes infinitely to the point where you have millions of hp right

you know his globe also blocks AoE from bombards right

also icy avalanche is basically iron skin for the whole team + CC + armor strip + damage on a single package and is spammable

 

really his only real nerf ever since his rework is nullifier killing his globe in one-shot which admittedly is f**king stupid but he's far from a bad place lol

[Midrib]

1 hour ago, FormulaXP said:

the poster boys for warframe are all ignored :(

Ash -Pukestrom rework made even more pukey with 360 mouse spin..sigh..

Frost..No one even needs this dude anymore other then mid game def and with his snow can die on 10 seconds with few hits from bombbards :(..sigh

Excal-he was fine b4 why did they even give him damage fall of..sigh

Yeah at first your posts were somewhat understandable in terms of where you're coming from, now you're just full blown silly. specially with that frost statement, it literally puts this whole thread to shame.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Midrib

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

2 hours ago, FormulaXP said:

Frost..No one even needs this dude anymore other then mid game def and with his snow can die on 10 seconds with few hits from bombbards :(..sigh

Guess i'm not needed here anymore boys, cya!

.... Are you going to be ok? Frost is the best both defensively and offensively (at least i use him for offense) never been useless and never will o.0 

Edited March 30, 2017 by (PS4)ArnnFrost

[ShadowStalker]

1 hour ago, Midrib said:

Yeah at first your posts were somewhat understandable in terms of where you're coming from, now you're just full blown silly. specially with that frost statement, it literally puts this whole thread to shame.

 

22 minutes ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

Guess i'm not needed here anymore boys, cya!

.... Are you going to be ok? Frost is the best both defensively and offensively (at least i use him for offense) never been useless and never will o.0 

cough causal frost users...do you even realise now weak his globe gets at like 80 waves on the void? or like 2 hours on Mot? play him more and youll see what i mean for now iam editing that post since someone people really dont want good frames so at high lvls you tasked with one THING SPAM 3 or dont and let the def go and not even be able to use your weapons....and i say he ignored coz i RARELY freaking see frosts even in Sorties maybe just me but want to def a pod? i see limbos wanna remove/reduce armour? use CP...sigh to bad cant even express your opinion

oh yeah and nullifers one slight touch and rip all 10 million globes you spammed regardless dck move by me bring frost into an ash topic iam just saying most old school frames arent used anymore why? because other frames do what can and sometimes better just dont want these frames to die out..

Edited March 30, 2017 by FormulaXP

[Nazrethim]

6 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

I must repeat again, it's not even a "storm" guddammit!!!

Look at Samuro in HotS that's what you called "bladestorm", Ash's must be called "stabby stab" instead.

Just scrap the whole thing and make an entire new ability already. Too lazy to animate the new one?

On the other hand, "Blade Storm" could be a pretty kickarse name for a STANCE.

 

3 hours ago, FormulaXP said:

how about like a nekros 4 ability? like has creates like 7-8 copies of him(player looks/colors) and they do blade strorm while you like like a exhalted dagger/ANY NINJA WEAPON and a 75 % chance to finsher xd farfethced but yeah XD

No, Ash is an assassin, not a summoner. HE should be the one doing the killing.

[ShadowStalker]

7 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

On the other hand, "Blade Storm" could be a pretty kickarse name for a STANCE.

 

No, Ash is an assassin, not a summoner. HE should be the one doing the killing.

fair enough.what is your "imagination" of a rework any ideas? 

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, Midrib said:

Personally my issues with Ash are minimal, I've been playing him much more after the rework, and he has been my go to farming frame for Kuva flood missions.

I just think that his cinematic action shots should just be removed from his ult, a part of me thinks DE wanted to do that but they decided not to, to please the Ash fanbase, but personally I feel as if they are more of a stalemate then anything and they are just boring, not to mention how terrible they look whenever you get into a lobby that has a 80+ ping you end up just slashing the air.

Actually most of the fanbase wanted this removed or given some option to not watch them. Also, Kuva Flood (or any kuva for that mather) is best done by a Huras, regardless of which frame you bring.

3 hours ago, Midrib said:

Another change would be just integrating Seeking shuriken into his 1, that way he has a good way to deal with armor so that his 1 has an actual use outside of Level 1-30,

Otherwise I think his Smoke bomb and teleport are perfectly fine,

Smoke Screen is fine, but could be better. Picture this:

Smoke Screen creates a cloud of smoke that lasts 12s, Ash is invisible inside it and for 8s after leaving it. Smoke Shadow Augment makes the cloud affect allies. Smoke Screen has two functions: Tap to throw the screen at your feet, or Hold for 1s (after which the ability goes off on it's own) to create the smoke cloud to wherever you are aiming, that way you can aim and save a teammate or throw the cloud ahead of your rushing team to make them invisible as they pass trough.

Teleport:

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming, releasing a radial stun that opens enemies to Finisher attacks. (tap)

Ash goes on a rampage, teleporting to all marked targets (in this example the marking would be free of cost and Ash's second passive) and executing them with Finisher attacks with his currently equiped melee weapon (which may be your melee weapon or Blade Storm Stance Wristblades) at a cost of 15 per marked enemy (10 if invisible).

Presto, Cinematic mode kept for those who like it, Stance Ultimate to solve BS problems once and for all, and Teleport can now ALSO be used for navigating terrain or flank. Also, the augment:

Fatal Teleport:

Tap: Ash will automatically Finish the nearest enemy after teleporting, killing the target releases a second radial stun opener.

Hold: increase Finisher damage by 200% and refunds 50% of the cost on each kill.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

Well everybody wanted Bladestorm to be only about these hidden blades in his arms not mindlessly teleporting and kill stuff with no effort, unfortunately DE made that lazy to stop the abusive use of the ability... 

They could've made the ability an exalted mode with these hidden blades, slashing and teleporting with a 30-50% chance for a kill assassination (finisher) or just a Shadow Clone Jutsu kind of thing but Noooo~ only agreed to stop the abusive behavior nothing else.

... I was actually hyped for the 4th rework x.x

Better idea: Make it a stance ultimate, and make the basic E spam useless, so players either need to use proper the combos or mix with abilities. It would make it stand out and be different from Exalted Spam, Hyspam and Primal Spam.

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, FormulaXP said:

fair enough.what is your "imagination" of a rework any ideas? 

It's on page 4 of this very thread, but for the sake of convenience:

Spoiler

Ash rework:

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

Passive: "Hemorrage": +20% Bleed damage +50% duration

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud are also gain invisibility.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, promting a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200% and refunds 50% of the cost (per enemy) on each kill.

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive "Mark of the Assassin": Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Passive "Hemorrage": Melee attacks inflict a Bleed that deals 10% of the weapon's Slash damage each second for 3s.

Shuriken: Tap deals 70 Puncture damage, Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed damage over 2s.

Smoke Screen: Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility.

Teleport: Hold function disabled, doesn't trigger radial stagger, instead makes the next melee attack within 2s encumber the target

Blade Storm: Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

It solves all the issues, keeps the cinematic mode but makes it optional, and is balanced for Conclave.

Note: All 'Hold' functions are 1 second hold and then the ability goes off on it's own, you can't (or need to) hold it longer.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Nazrethim

[cykardo]

17 hours ago, FormulaXP said:

 Fetal teleport

I know it's an unintended typo, but this brings funny stuff and ideas in my mind. 

[ShadowStalker]

9 minutes ago, cykardo said:

I know it's an unintended typo, but this brings funny stuff and ideas in my mind. 

Fatal* :p 

[Midrib]

57 minutes ago, FormulaXP said:

 

cough causal frost users...do you even realise now weak his globe gets at like 80 waves on the void? or like 2 hours on Mot? play him more and youll see what i mean for now iam editing that post since someone people really dont want good frames so at high lvls you tasked with one THING SPAM 3 or dont and let the def go and not even be able to use your weapons....and i say he ignored coz i RARELY freaking see frosts even in Sorties maybe just me but want to def a pod? i see limbos wanna remove/reduce armour? use CP...sigh to bad cant even express your opinion

oh yeah and nullifers one slight touch and rip all 10 million globes you spammed regardless dck move by me bring frost into an ash topic iam just saying most old school frames arent used anymore why? because other frames do what can and sometimes better just dont want these frames to die out..

I'm sorry but If YOU are trash with frost, it doesn't mean that frost is bad or even lacking, m'kay.

Frost isn't a stranger when it comes to high level defense missions and he easily can handle himself there, what you're experiencing is a L2P issue not a frost issue.

In every Defense\Excavation I always see a frost if i don't take him, and in some cases I run into 2 in the same mission, so I have  no idea where you play.

Frost has a scaling globe that alone allows him to scale very well, and If a nullifier reaches into your bubble, then its on you not the frame, again L2P.

and what are you even talking about?, I see more old school frames being played much more than newer ones, Frost, Valkyr, Saryn, Rhino, Ember, Excalibur, Ash,Volt, all old school frames that I see much more of then frames like Atlas, Titania, Wukong, Chroma, Inaros. Nezha

[ShadowStalker]

2 minutes ago, Midrib said:

I'm sorry but If YOU are trash with frost, it doesn't mean that frost is bad or even lacking, m'kay.

Frost isn't a stranger when it comes to high level defense missions and he easily can handle himself there, what you're experiencing is a L2P issue not a frost issue.

In every Defense\Excavation I always see a frost if i don't take him, and in some cases I run into 2 in the same mission, so I have  no idea where you play.

Frost has a scaling globe that alone allows him to scale very well, and If a nullifier reaches into your bubble, then its on you not the frame, again L2P.

and what are you even talking about?, I see more old school frames being played much more than newer ones, Frost, Valkyr, Saryn, Rhino, Ember, Excalibur, Ash,Volt, all old school frames that I see much more of then frames like Atlas, Titania, Wukong, Chroma, Inaros. Nezha

lets leave it that 

[Shad0wWatcher]

Why do people keep calling it a rework, the devs called it "Ash revisited" they didn't rework anything they just added a thing to bladestorm and smoke screen.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

10 hours ago, (PS4)hahajake said:

Lol. You think his 4 wasnt nerfed because his 1 was buffed? Cute

Who was ever talking about his 1.....

[DxAdder]

Lets do this the easy way.

DE shows us Ash usage before and after re-work, lets see what the overall player base thinks of the re-work.

 

 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Why do people keep calling it a rework, the devs called it "Ash revisited" they didn't rework anything they just added a thing to bladestorm and smoke screen.

Because most don't notice the difference, though DE referred to Limbo rework as "revisit", further blurring the line.

All of this is because DE gave Ash a lazy changes that didn't really adress the frames' issues, nor they tried to make the playstyle better, or get the abilities fit his theme, or PAY ATTENTION TO A YEAR (pre revisit) AND A HALF (after revisit) OF PLAYER FEEDBACK

[Shad0wWatcher]

19 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Idk why everyone is so worked up about ash getting "fixed", I mean this rework my not be the best, but ash can still kill lvl 150 enemies waaaay faster than other frames. Seriously I can never understand how a Warframe who uses two of the best damage types(slash/finisher damage) in three of his abilities, is considered useless/bad. Also ash has a passive that buffs his overall damage for anything that procs slash, which is like 80% of all the weapons in the game.

That my friend is because Ash has no real CC, that and people just get very butthurt about not being able to target enemies being attacked by Ash during bladestorm, i personally love Ash the way he is, but it can always be better, people just want him to get the attention he deserves. So do i, the changes he got just felt lazy and like they didn't really give those changes a lot of thought, Ash is by no means broken, he's still the biggest badass in the game imo, hell he's been my main bad boy for about 4 years now. And i don't see that changing. But the thing is, DE really just could've taken their time with Ash, i don't think anybody would've objected to that, i know we're a bunch of impatient little children some times and DE wants to deliver n what they promised, but Ash bladestorm felt rushed in so many ways.

And the fact that Rebecca (no offence to her in the slightest) but it would've been better to ask the players who actually main Ash to test the ability instead of Rebecca who doesn't really play Ash much from what i've seen. So when she said that the tweaks were really cool and felt great didn't feel believable, they tested it in a solo play but what about in teams? Did they account for that? Bladestorm before was basically just a kill switch, but now it's still a kill switch that just requires you to do more, which is great, but it feels like they didn't really check for many options, from what i've heard about it was that Scott had first tried a concept of BS working the same way WoF works, which actually sounded very interesting, especially considering what we got in the end.

Or maybe it was our own fault for being so freaking annoying about this topic, some players wanted an exalted bladestorm for Ash, others wanted it to be the same but more interactive, etc. So maybe they decided to play it safe with Ash cause he's a fan-favorite frame.

[Shad0wWatcher]

2 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Because most don't notice the difference, though DE referred to Limbo rework as "revisit", further blurring the line.

All of this is because DE gave Ash a lazy changes that didn't really adress the frames' issues, nor they tried to make the playstyle better, or get the abilities fit his theme, or PAY ATTENTION TO A YEAR (pre revisit) AND A HALF (after revisit) OF PLAYER FEEDBACK

Ikr, i've also mentioned this before, DE should've just taken their time and looked through the many many forum threads containing ideas on how to improve bladestorm

[Nazrethim]

Just now, Shad0wWatcher said:

Ikr, i've also mentioned this before, DE should've just taken their time and looked through the many many forum threads containing ideas on how to improve bladestorm

I think they didn't actually work on Ash at all, they added the targeting gimmick and made smoke screen one-hand cast and then dived headfirst into working on TWW, promtly forgeting about Ash completely, then they started working on Nidus and Octavia, then the art team showed up at the office "hey, remember Ash? well we got the deluxe skin ready!" amd DE went like "Oh sh*t! we totally forgot about Ash! what do we do?" "just release what we have and let's go back to the new frames and be done with it, probably no one will make a big fuss about it".

And that's how America was discovered we got here

[Shad0wWatcher]

2 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I think they didn't actually work on Ash at all, they added the targeting gimmick and made smoke screen one-hand cast and then dived headfirst into working on TWW, promtly forgeting about Ash completely, then they started working on Nidus and Octavia, then the art team showed up at the office "hey, remember Ash? well we got the deluxe skin ready!" amd DE went like "Oh sh*t! we totally forgot about Ash! what do we do?" "just release what we have and let's go back to the new frames and be done with it, probably no one will make a big fuss about it".

And that's how America was discovered we got here

Hahahahaha nice, such is the story of life, Ash was too ninja for them to realize he was there?