Excessive Crush Buff

[SevenLetterKWord]

Dealing 330 damage across 10 meters within 2 seconds, Crush was already a very strong ultimate ability...
But in U20, Crush's range was increased to an appalling 18 meters. This near-doubling in range (and over-tripling in area) allows Crush to easily dominate entire rooms.

Witness the ridiculous range of Crush:

Witness the raw power of Crush (vs supertank 205/110 Frost Prime):

Crush also casts very quickly - much faster than in PvE - and has minimal startup delay.
Additionally, each tick of damage inflicts stagger. Combined with the buffed range, this makes Crush effectively inescapable.
(Damage ticks occur at 0.62s, 0.98s, and 1.94s after casting. 330 damage - enough to kill a Frost - is dealt in under two seconds; 220 damage is dealt under one.)

Ember's World on Fire has a 6m range.
Limbo's Cataclysm and Banshee's Sound Quake have a 7m range.
Volt's Discharge, Rhino's Rhino Stomp, Saryn's Miasma, Nezha's Divine Spears, Ash's Blade Storm, Equinox's Mend & Maim, Mirage's Prism, and Oberon's Reckoning all have an 8m range.
Frost's Avalanche and Loki's Radial Disarm have a 10m range.

None of these abilities can OHKO a Frost, and certainly none of them can do it from eighteen meters away.
Why does Crush?

[TylersLegend]

Wow, that's going to be hard to avoid now.

I did think it needed a buff before because it was free when trying to get away from. Before buff, its roll once and walk out.

Was it always a 2-second cast?

It always looked like a longer cast to me, having low range and a long cast and small range with serious animation lock made me believe it needed buffs.

I would say it only needs a slight buff in range

Edited March 30, 2017 by TylersLegend

[Witchydragon]

I think they're trying to offset all of Mag's PvE nerfs through PvP buffs.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Witchydragon

[SevenLetterKWord]

Just now, TylersLegend said:

Wow, that's going to be hard to avoid now.
I did think it needed a buff before because it was free when trying to get away from. Before buff, its roll once and walk out.
Was it always a 2-second cast?
It always looked like a longer cast to me, having low range and a long cast and small range with serious animation lock made be believe it needed buffs.
I would say it only needs a slight buff in range, doesn't that move cc too?

Crush's casting speed was increased in Conclave many updates ago. At least half a year, by my guess.
And Crush's previous range of ten meters made it one of the longest-reaching ultimates in Conclave.

It was already one of the most potent abilities.
Absolutely no buff was necessary. Any buff is excessive; an 80% increase in range is disgustingly so.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Witchydragon said:

I think they're trying to offset all of Mag's PvE nerfs through PvP buffs.

This comment made me laugh more than it should. Thanks I needed that.

[-Jackson]

Wow, no wonder I've been getting minced by Crush recently.. I thought something was different

[SevenLetterKWord]

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Edited April 2, 2017 by SevenLetterKWord
Forum embedding is trash

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

i mean mag is stuck doing that animation, like the daikyu or even mios will be able to kill the mag before they get killed by crush. 

[SevenLetterKWord]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

i mean mag is stuck doing that animation, like the daikyu or even mios will be able to kill the mag before they get killed by crush. 

I know that the Daikyu and Mios trigger you beyond all belief, but please, don't let your personal biases blind you from the fact that Crush has a two second animation that deals more than half your EHP in under one second, and it can do it from 18m away.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

17 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

I know that the Daikyu and Mios trigger you beyond all belief, but please, don't let your personal biases blind you from the fact that Crush has a two second animation that deals more than half your EHP in under one second, and it can do it from 18m away.

pretty sure the daikyu an 1 shot anything from just 15 meters away in just 1 second and the mios can probably do the same in 2 seconds so i really dont see the point in complaining about an ability that can do the same but leaves the person using it vulnerable and that the ability requires energy to use which in a proper match is not the easiest to get and  spam

"b-but you need to aim the daikyu"

nope you certainly do not  

Edited April 3, 2017 by (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX

[(PSN)Radek-98]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

pretty sure the daikyu an 1 shot anything from just 15 meters away in just 1 second and the mios can probably do the same in 2 seconds so i really dont see the point in complaining about an ability that can do the same but leaves the person using it vulnerable and that the ability requires energy to use which in a proper match is not the easiest to get and  spam

"b-but you need to aim the daikyu"

nope you certainly do not  

There are plenty of flaws with this logic:

First, Daikyu doesn't one shot if the person has more EHP than normal unless it were by a headshot. Daikyu takes time to charge up the shot so unless you had the shot at the ready, thats not going to happen. Even if you were to hit the person with the Daikyu, you take damage since Crush has little to no start-up.

Second, one can start up Crush from a mile away and still hit through wall (not exactly sure but I think it does).

Your suggestions are very conditional and the same can be applied with the Mios. Unless you started already the combo animation, you are not gonna survive.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

1 hour ago, (PS4)TheKiller9805 said:

There are plenty of flaws with this logic:

First, Daikyu doesn't one shot if the person has more EHP than normal unless it were by a headshot. Daikyu takes time to charge up the shot so unless you had the shot at the ready, thats not going to happen. Even if you were to hit the person with the Daikyu, you take damage since Crush has little to no start-up.

Second, one can start up Crush from a mile away and still hit through wall (not exactly sure but I think it does).

Your suggestions are very conditional and the same can be applied with the Mios. Unless you started already the combo animation, you are not gonna survive.

it doesnt 1 shot a tank frost build just like the post buff crush so in that respect they are the same also if the person come around the corner and just lets the arrow fly then its basically instant death if the arrow even fly's past you because its amazing hitboxes also with the range and the damage and the channel blocking along with its animations the mios defiantly inst situational

also you could easily escape crush if you could tell when someone is about to use it with the mod that shows targets with max energy or even with common sense and tbh i really dont even see the point in this thread because mag will finally get some use in the game after her terrible rework

[squidd]

Let's ignore the Daikyu and Mios for now, regardless of whether or not someone believes or disbelieves in their imbalance, and turn back to the thread's intended topic.

On 3/29/2017 at 8:16 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

... has minimal startup delay. Additionally, each tick of damage inflicts stagger. Combined with the buffed range, this makes Crush effectively inescapable.

This is what bothers me about the ability. I am terrified whenever I see Mag because I know that if I get remotely close to her (even beyond walls/floors), there is a chance that she could spontaneously cast Crush, and I would be immediately staggered and have 2 seconds (minus human reaction time to identify and locate the source) to kill her before I die to the one-hit KO monster. This is ignoring a FFA environment where someone else may kill her first, which does exist but cannot be considered the main method for countering the ability.

I have played matches where Mag casts Crush to take down three players every 2 minutes. I have been instantly melted by Crush when Mag was a floor/level below me, off of each other's radar, her not even knowing I was there. Two others fell victim to the same cast who were unable to escape it after being instantaneously staggered with little to no warning.

It isn't a matter of creating too large an advantage for a player; it simply functions as an immediate and reliable "kill everything in a large area" button unless Mag is already targeted. It really does seem like its been tuned too high in my opinion.

Edited April 3, 2017 by squidd

[SevenLetterKWord]

What is this, an exploration of how little credibility an individual can have?

3 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

so i really dont see the point in complaining about an ability that can do the same but leaves the person using it vulnerable and that the ability requires energy to use which in a proper match is not the easiest to get and  spam

Crush can one-shot multiple players at 18m, with no aiming requirement.
I know you don't like being confronted with legitimate evidence, but I'm going to have to ask you to look at the four gifs I posted earlier.
You will see that Crush is capable of dealing quick and functionally unavoidable lethal damage to distant players outside the user's field of view.
Furthermore, you will see that three of those gifs come from the same match, which I joined halfway through, so do not tell me that energy "is not the easiest to get and spam".

3 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

"b-but you need to aim the daikyu"
nope you certainly do not  

Alright, buddy. Here's a question for you...
Which is harder to aim:
A Daikyu arrow with a pinpoint hitbox?
Or an 18m Crush sphere, which hits regardless of angle?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

it doesnt 1 shot a tank frost build just like the post buff crush so in that respect they are the same also if the person come around the corner and just lets the arrow fly then its basically instant death if the arrow even fly's past you because its amazing hitboxes

The Daikyu deals 185.5 damage, which is nowhere near Crush's 330.
Even with Spring-Loaded Broadhead at max range, the Daikyu deals at most 259.7 damage.

And, despite your stalwart denialism, Daikyu arrows have pinpoint hitboxes.
This has been demonstrated time and time again with video evidence; your persistent ignorance is stunning.

Why are we even comparing the Daikyu to Crush?
The Opticor is capable of instantly killing players from across entire maps.
Does that mean we should buff Crush again, so that it can kill from 80m away?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

also with the range and the damage and the channel blocking along with its animations the mios defiantly inst situational

Your vague grumblings aside, no melee weapon has an 18m range.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

also you could easily escape crush if you could tell when someone is about to use it with the mod that shows targets with max energy or even with common sense and tbh i really dont even see the point in this thread because mag will finally get some use in the game after her terrible rework

Overcharge Detectors is not functional, not that it matters.
Knowing that a player can use an ability is not the same as knowing when that player will use that ability.

And unless you're the Amazing Spider-Man, there's no "sense" - common or otherwise - that will save you from Crush's 18m range and 2 seconds to lethal.

[Darkvramp]

so make Aoe abilities line of site and you reduce some of the problem. it would also help to see a range indicator for the Aoe abilities so i know whether someone is in range or not

[SevenLetterKWord]

4 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

• Reduced Mag's Crush range in Conclave.
• Removed the Impair debuff from Mag's Crush in Conclave.

Crush's range is now 13 meters.

[--.69-JP3GMD-69.nVbs.--]

sadly fixed