Can we please do something about enemy CC?

[PrVonTuckIII]

19 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

you may prefer to have mouse seizures and bullet jump all the time, thing is you already do all that mindlessly because you don't even need to think to go through content with the bullet jumping+jump+roll+slide all the times,

Yes, because looking in the direction you want to go is definitely a mouse seizure. It's also not mindless (unless we're actually trying to get somewhere). Maneuvering of any kind is only ever used for protection (you literally take less damage while rolling, and bullet-jumping reduces enemy accuracy), or to get somewhere fast. 

No idiot would spam those constantly. We use them for either outmaneuvering the enemies, avoiding damage/CC, or getting to places. AKA - How the game is supposed to be played, not spamming Radial Disarm every five seconds to keep yourself safe. If you think we do, you've probably mistaken Warframe for Tribes: Ascend.

19 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

You guys almost make this game seem like it requires skill whatsoever and blame on the meta cheesing while you also use other cheesing strats, no go get a bow or a sniper or something that actually requires you to aim, single target, no spray, etc so you get swarmed and you will see,

See above. It's hilarious how you think that maneuvering is a cheese strat. It's literally what Warframe is about. You are not tanky. Even the tankiest Warframes are tomatoes compared the enemies. Our one greatest defence is mobility, and it is not a cheese strat. It's equally hilarious like you think my using the most basic of systems means that I also use weapons that require no skill, when my top used weapon is the Lex Prime, which is possibly one of the least spammy weapons in the game. I haven't touched my 'meta cheese' in so long, and any time I go for Sorties or whatnot, I don't even bother to look for my SomaP, or my Telos Boltor, or S-Simulor. I just pick up my LexP and some melee. The only meta I even bother using is a High-Str-High-Eff Nova, for AMD. Which is far from the cheesiest of strats.

TL;DR: Learn to actually use the maneuvering system and parkour, rather than complaining about your obvious lack of skill.

Edited April 6, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[LycanPT]

1 hour ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Yes, because looking in the direction you want to go is definitely a mouse seizure. It's also not mindless (unless we're actually trying to get somewhere). Maneuvering of any kind is only ever used for protection (you literally take less damage while rolling, and bullet-jumping reduces enemy accuracy), or to get somewhere fast. 

No idiot would spam those constantly. We use them for either outmaneuvering the enemies, avoiding damage/CC, or getting to places. AKA - How the game is supposed to be played, not spamming Radial Disarm every five seconds to keep yourself safe. If you think we do, you've probably mistaken Warframe for Tribes: Ascend.

See above. It's hilarious how you think that maneuvering is a cheese strat. It's literally what Warframe is about. You are not tanky. Even the tankiest Warframes are tomatoes compared the enemies. Our one greatest defence is mobility, and it is not a cheese strat. It's equally hilarious like you think my using the most basic of systems means that I also use weapons that require no skill, when my top used weapon is the Lex Prime, which is possibly one of the least spammy weapons in the game. I haven't touched my 'meta cheese' in so long, and any time I go for Sorties or whatnot, I don't even bother to look for my SomaP, or my Telos Boltor, or S-Simulor. I just pick up my LexP and some melee. The only meta I even bother using is a High-Str-High-Eff Nova, for AMD. Which is far from the cheesiest of strats.

TL;DR: Learn to actually use the maneuvering system and parkour, rather than complaining about your obvious lack of skill.

yeah you think you have skill by moving but no, you can just move to any direction or perform either a roll or bullet jump that doesn't make a single diff in order to avoid damage, they both serve the same goal: avoid enemy accuracy. Skill would be you actually had to choose between roll or bullet jump and the right place and be consequences about it, because as it is as long as you don't roll or bullet jump to the face of a hard hitting enemy you will be fine. And yet you call this skill lol at anypoint of the game you actually have to think about to either user bullet jump or roll, you just do random movements to keep yourself as away as possible from the targets you can see on your screen and when you get cornered you just bullet jump throught them and repeat... such skill. And funny thing you think this is actually the way it should be played because you are so used to your pro mlg skills that you don't see every enemy feels the same and does the same, now I am sure you never died in high level because you are so good at dodging CC consistently in this horde game, specially with the party flying moa's and laser guided chained hooks.

Good thing you go to sorties with only a lex melee and a nova, you use a better set up than I use most of the times but hey sorry to say but anyone can sortie. Like I said I am not a scrub at this game, so I repeat WF is very little about skill and more about knowledge. And when you get to the point you start having to shoot more than 10 secs per enemy you will know what I am talking about, specially if it is high priority target and you really need to kill it sometimes you just have the option to chose the way you want to die.

But hey you don't need to go that far, just try to go revive your teammate that has 1 sec on timer and as soon as you land you get knocked or pulled, or you need to get life support, or that last seconds of spy vault you accidentally triggered. You know when you're running, gunning and killing everything seems easy and it is in fact easy, even sorties are easy, but when you need to actually spend time in some clutch actions you see how much nonsense this game has, and you know what? it is not even challenging is just annoying because there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it most of the times if you're not playing a mass CC frame

Edited April 6, 2017 by LycanPT

[PrVonTuckIII]

21 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

yeah you think you have skill by moving but no, you can just move to any direction or perform either a roll or bullet jump that doesn't make a single diff in order to avoid damage, they both serve the same goal: avoid enemy accuracy. Skill would be you actually had to choose between roll or bullet jump and the right place and be consequences about it, because as it is as long as you don't roll or bullet jump to the face of a hard hitting enemy you will be fine. And yet you call this skill lol at anypoint of the game you actually have to think about to either user bullet jump or roll, you just do random movements to keep yourself as away as possible from the targets you can see on your screen and when you get cornered you just bullet jump throught them and repeat... such skill.

Nothing here even resembles a coherent argument. You have yet to actually disprove anything that I've said. If you're having problems with CC, maneuver. Perhaps calling it skill is going too far. It's literally just instinct. You see a Scorpion, you dodge. A Bursa turns the corner, you either get somewhere safe, or you lock it down with your abilities. 

Quote

And funny thing you think this is actually the way it should be played because you are so used to your pro mlg skills that you don't see every enemy feels the same and does the same, now I am sure you never died in high level because you are so good at dodging CC consistently in this horde game, specially with the party flying moa's and laser guided chained hooks.

Sarcasm doesn't befit you, nor does it make your attempt at arguing any more valid. Your chances of surviving enemy CC skyrockets if you bother to learn to dodge and/or maneuver.

Quote

Good thing you go to sorties with only a lex melee and a nova, you use a better set up than I use most of the times but hey sorry to say but anyone can sortie. Like I said I am not a scrub at this game, so I repeat WF is very little about skill and more about knowledge. And when you get to the point you start having to shoot more than 10 secs per enemy you will know what I am talking about, specially if it is high priority target and you really need to kill it sometimes you just have the option to chose the way you want to die.

I used Sorties as an example. I don't use 'meta' weapons/frames, nor have I ever felt the need to use them, unless the mission was swarming with Nullifiers or something. 

Besides, I never claimed that Warframe takes skill to play. I said that it takes a modicum of skill in order to survive CC. If it matters, I have yet to find any real difficulty with Sorties, and I'm using the above loadout almost all the time. But that's unquantifiable, so let's forget it. The point here is, I've pointed out the flaws in your complaints, and you've done nothing to disprove them except act sarcastic, and spout off-topic nonsense.

Quote

But hey you don't need to go that far, just try to go revive your teammate that has 1 sec on timer and as soon as you land you get knocked or pulled, or you need to get life support, or that last seconds of spy vault you accidentally triggered. You know when you're running, gunning and killing everything seems easy and it is in fact easy, even sorties are easy, but when you need to actually spend time in some clutch actions you see how much nonsense this game has, and you know what? it is not even challenging is just annoying because there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it most of the times if you're not playing a mass CC frame

For the last damn time. Learn to roll/maneuver. Instant immunity to all CC, decreased enemy accuracy, and heavy damage reduction, as well as making yourself a smaller target. All with one button press. If that's beyond your capabilities, you shouldn't be complaining. 

Just so you know, I'm not saying that maneuvering is the end-all strategy. You're not going to be immune to your enemies by rolling. However, your chances of survival, and thus success, go up if you learn to read your targets before they CC you, and take the appropriate action.

Edited April 6, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[LycanPT]

21 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Nothing here even resembles a coherent argument. You have yet to actually disprove anything that I've said. If you're having problems with CC, maneuver. Perhaps calling it skill is going too far. It's literally just instinct. You see a Scorpion, you dodge. A Bursa turns the corner, you either get somewhere safe, or you lock it down with your abilities. 

Sarcasm doesn't befit you, nor does it make your attempt at arguing any more valid. Your chances of surviving enemy CC skyrockets if you bother to learn to dodge and/or maneuver.

I used Sorties as an example. I don't use 'meta' weapons/frames, nor have I ever felt the need to use them, unless the mission was swarming with Nullifiers or something. 

Besides, I never claimed that Warframe takes skill to play. I said that it takes a modicum of skill in order to survive CC. If it matters, I have yet to find any real difficulty with Sorties, and I'm using the above loadout almost all the time. But that's unquantifiable, so let's forget. The point here is, I've pointed out the flaws in your complaints, and you've done nothing to disprove them except act sarcastic, and spout off-topic nonsense.

I am being sarcastic because you make it seem this game is not a hoard game, you can't dodge eveything you will get caught no matter how good at moving you are, and you actually get caught way more often than you think you do, thing is at low level you don't get punished for it so for you that is not a problem, if you get CC'd at level below maybe sortie 3 even in a squishy frame chances are you don't get to be punshed by it, it is just a small annoyance overshadowed by the fact you got away with it. but when you start to be really punished by being CC'd when you have to dodge everything for the sake of your life you will actually see how many times you don't even stand a chance, afterall this is a numbers game and the numbers are not on our side. Now things could be diminished by removing the ammount of this units, so when you are actually playing you can select them as priority targets if you wish so, this would actually allow you to have some battle management in order to survive instead of the kill everything that moves and hope there is no one left standing while you reload. and the units that lost their hard cc could have other roles in the battle like trying everything so that the few hard CC units can perform their roles. You know add some build up time to an event that if you don't avoid you know you performed badly, as of now this game is 0 and 1, you either avoid or get knocked and trust me they will get you from your back, how do you even avoid that? Most of people try to keep their back to the corner, but that also hinders your movement as you enter in a tight space, so your last resort is to bullet jump away and place yourself into another corner, all the other strategies and clutter like boxes are just not viable because a unit just cc's you making you exposed to all the other units gunfire

Edited April 6, 2017 by LycanPT

[Omnipower]

Im gonna try to diffuse this little argument...well here goes.

22 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

-snip-

The person is only saying removing or altering the enemies CC will either do one of two things make the game even easier than it is or make it much worst considering DE's rap sheet with some of the alterations.

43 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

-snips-

And to you they're saying that they "know" how to dodge and bullet jump its the basics of the basics like you mentioned, what they're are pissed about is that there is no way besides complete CC shutdown to avoid every single scorpion or ancient in the room that wishes to ragdoll you north west east and south 3x each way no matter how good or timely you dodge their CC.

Overall i dont think DE is going to change it as its the only reliable CC for grineer and its been a part of infested from the start though i wouldnt mind them losing it.

[taiiat]

there's many methods that we all presumably use to reduce the effect of CC Enemies apply but ultimately with the Enemy Density it is inevitably punishment for not turning off Enemies or mapwiping.

flying around is extremely recommended, and makes a big difference, but it reduces Enemy Accuracy, it doesn't prevent any of it. just like we still take Damage sometimes while bouncing off the walls, we still get hit by CC sometimes.

 

it'd also be a more effective solution if Mobility was actually reliable, unfortunately it still isn't and at times the game will decide you cannot perform actions you haven't expended yet.
much like the rest of the game, little things here and there stack up together.

12 hours ago, Sakatchi said:

You have an exilus slot now, put handspring in it.

that only reinforces to show that there's a problem, if everyone is using the same Utility Mod, then that points towards an issue.

12 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Most cc in this game is telegraphed and gives you time to counter

sort of - the Animations used to telegraph CC is... generally Telegraphed for most Enemies, but others perform the actual attack near the beginning of the Telegraph Animation(or even at the same time as starting the Telegraph), which doesn't fall under the category of telegraphing.

and ofcourse the Telegraphs are all animated around 1v1 scenarios but we all know 30v1 is much more common.

it additionally doesn't help that once an Enemy starts performing an attack, anything short of death will not interrupt them. which punishes Players that aren't turning off Enemies before they are within sight or mapwiping.

 

3 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

its been a part of infested from the start

Ancients didn't always have a Grapple Hook. it was added to them after it was created for other Enemies, infact.

[LycanPT]

18 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

Im gonna try to diffuse this little argument...well here goes.

The person is only saying removing or altering the enemies CC will either do one of two things make the game even easier than it is or make it much worst considering DE's rap sheet with some of the alterations.

And to you they're saying that they "know" how to dodge and bullet jump its the basics of the basics like you mentioned, what they're are pissed about is that there is no way besides complete CC shutdown to avoid every single scorpion or ancient in the room that wishes to ragdoll you north west east and south 3x each way no matter how good or timely you dodge their CC.

Overall i dont think DE is going to change it as its the only reliable CC for grineer and its been a part of infested from the start though i wouldnt mind them losing it.

The CC as the current itteration is either annoying or deadly (much thanks to the other problem we have atm which is enemy scalling) and it is not just grineer, think infested moas that jump into you and knock you out of the blue and the ones that leave that slow goo on the floor that is actually super deadly, the ancients, the chargers, runners that stagger you the volatile runners and these units are actually pretty fast and big numbers. The corpus with the bursas, nullifiers, bombing ospreys, sappling ospreys (although they are now much easier to handle if you are close and quick meele even tho I can't seem to be able to shoot it mid air which is kinda annoying but oh well) the combas, moa's the blue one and the orange. The grineer have the scorpions, commanders(but these are much more rare although have a problematic impossible to counter mechanic), heavy gunners, bombars (rockets+slam), those flying rocketeers, napalms, shield guys, rollers, power firsts, drahk masters. It is just too much and too much of hard CC that at low levels get away because we can get away with it

Edited April 7, 2017 by LycanPT

[(PSN)Terpesr367]

11 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

And to you they're saying that they "know" how to dodge and bullet jump its the basics of the basics like you mentioned, what they're are pissed about is that there is no way besides complete CC shutdown to avoid every single scorpion or ancient in the room that wishes to ragdoll you north west east and south 3x each way no matter how good or timely you dodge their CC.

 

If you fight in melee you can counter it, there's been a few times where it doesn't work on me even with direct hits too, either through blocking or through resist knockdown mods.

[FireSegment]

Since CC stand for "crowd control" but from enemy perspective, there are only 4 of us, not much of a crowd, so the word u might looking for is "debuff".

to the point, my opinion on this si that ... we already have pretty diverse enemy debuff type in the game: 

Dhrak master - Disarm

Mutalist MOA - Slow

Comba/Scrambus - UI distortion 

Nullifier - well ... no need to say

Index unit, bursa - tether grenade effect

those whose grap hook, teleport, knockdown - Stun (the elephant in the room)

Pretty much every enemy deal elemental prod - Damage over time (slash/toxin), Slow(Cold), Energy drain (magnetic),.......

 

So, the main problem really is not that we dont have diverse debuff, but that 80% we only encounter a few same debuff, but that have more to contribute on diversity of the mission than diversity of the enemy. So ... unless u want a nullifier version for grinner, i suggest u try play more faction :3 

 

[LycanPT]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Terpesr367 said:

 

If you fight in melee you can counter it, there's been a few times where it doesn't work on me even with direct hits too, either through blocking or through resist knockdown mods.

thing is resorting a unique gameplay in a game with so much more options is kinda showing the problem, and you are right it is not even 100% reliable, some units bypass blocking (eg: powerfists, I remember these more often due to LoR runs)

[Omnipower]

38 minutes ago, taiiat said:

-snip-

Ancients didn't always have a Grapple Hook. it was added to them after it was created for other Enemies, infact.

Oh yeah forgot they were just giant leapers before well they had for a very long time since their model changed and it would be weird for them to lose it this late in the game but stranger things have happened.

30 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

The CC as the current itteration is either annoying or deadly (much thanks to the other problem we have atm which is enemy scalling) and it is not just grineer, think infested moas that jump into you and knock you out of the blue and the ones that leave that slow goo on the floor that is actually super deadly, the ancients, the chargers, runners that stagger you the volatile runners and these units are actually pretty fast and big numbers. The corpus with the bursas, nullifiers, bombing ospreys, sappling ospreys (although they are now much easier to handle if you are close and quick meele even tho I can't seem to be able to shoot it mid air which is kinda annoying but oh well) the combas, moa's the blue one and the orange. The grineer have the scorpions, commanders(but these are much more rare although have a problematic impossible to counter mechanic), heavy gunners, bombars (rockets+slam), those flying rocketeers, napalms, shield guys, rollers, power firsts, drahk masters. It is just too much and too much of hard CC that at low levels get away because we can get away with it

True enough but i still believe if anything changing it will make it easier or worst for us it will be extremely amazing if DE is capable of hitting the nail on the head with changing any of the enemies CC. I would put my vote in making them use their CC less or in very specific scenarios.

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Terpesr367 said:

 

If you fight in melee you can counter it, there's been a few times where it doesn't work on me even with direct hits too, either through blocking or through resist knockdown mods.

Yeah but that is the thing i assume they wish for a more reliable roll like a 0.5 Invulnerable phase and it lasts 1-2 seconds giving you ample time to get out of dodge(i dont mean the actual invulnerable but in that fraction of second NO cc can touch you) with a 3-10 second CD on it maybe cause changing to melee then blocking before being hit with CC is near impossible and if you roll it doesnt work 100% of the time which many thought it would.

Scenario 3 ancients and you: One coming from behind and 2 from the front, you charging forward through an open room to the other door behind the 2 ancients in front you bullet jump and get dragged back by the one behind then as you get up you see one of the 2 in front charging for a hook so you roll but it DOESNT work and drags you by this time you are pissed so you prep your gun to shoot but before you even back on your feet the one behind you grabs you again and then the second one in front grabs you shortly after. Now with the idea i had you couldve ignored them entirely with that 1-2 second no cc time instead of playing the tenno ping pong game.

Im not saying this happens often but the few times it does is enough to incite rage in many yes it couldve been handled another way...many other ways but the fact remains when more than 1 ancient or CC spamming mob is in a room you are most definitely going to get caught by 1 which turns into a domino effect quick and NO there is not a thing you can do about it since unlike mobs we dont get CC immunity after breaking out of a CC a second ago or even half a second ago. Anyone know of the moa slam/ancient pull into a toxic ancient kiss? <-- happens more often than not.

[Sakatchi]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

there's many methods that we all presumably use to reduce the effect of CC Enemies apply but ultimately with the Enemy Density it is inevitably punishment for not turning off Enemies or mapwiping.

flying around is extremely recommended, and makes a big difference, but it reduces Enemy Accuracy, it doesn't prevent any of it. just like we still take Damage sometimes while bouncing off the walls, we still get hit by CC sometimes.

 

it'd also be a more effective solution if Mobility was actually reliable, unfortunately it still isn't and at times the game will decide you cannot perform actions you haven't expended yet.
much like the rest of the game, little things here and there stack up together.

that only reinforces to show that there's a problem, if everyone is using the same Utility Mod, then that points towards an issue.

sort of - the Animations used to telegraph CC is... generally Telegraphed for most Enemies, but others perform the actual attack near the beginning of the Telegraph Animation(or even at the same time as starting the Telegraph), which doesn't fall under the category of telegraphing.

and ofcourse the Telegraphs are all animated around 1v1 scenarios but we all know 30v1 is much more common.

it additionally doesn't help that once an Enemy starts performing an attack, anything short of death will not interrupt them. which punishes Players that aren't turning off Enemies before they are within sight or mapwiping.

 

Ancients didn't always have a Grapple Hook. it was added to them after it was created for other Enemies, infact.

They could also block to almost nullify the cc outside of a tiny knock back from flame waves and slams. But apparently some people do not like blocking, or carrying melee weapons for some reason, so hand spring is really their best option.

Its also not like the exilus slot as anything really good going for it, unless you really @(*()&#036; need to use the drift mods, or just have to spam bullet jump mods.

[taiiat]

53 minutes ago, FireSegment said:

Nullifier - well ... no need to say

unless u want a nullifier version for grinner

i think you do - Nullifiers have been made irrelevant. since the introduction of their Drone (but unrelated to the Drone), Nullifiers are no longer relevant - they're a Sniper Crewman with a second Shield. but that bubble shield is less effective at doing anything than their own personal Shield.

Arctic Eximus impede most Abilities.

2 minutes ago, Sakatchi said:

They could also block to almost nullify the cc outside of a tiny knock back from flame waves and slams. But apparently some people do not like blocking, or carrying melee weapons for some reason, so hand spring is really their best option.

it's the best option for 100% of Players, since the Mod turns off Enemy CC. all Players benefit from using it, because then you're, suffice to say, immune to Enemy CC.

which again, points towards an issue. a double issue perse, that the one Mod is probably too effective and that it's highly favored appeal that what it combats probably has some concerns with implementation.

[Keiga150]

So this is the list of CC per faction that I could think off so far.

Spoiler

Infested CC

Slow (Moa)
Grapple (Ancients)
Knockdown (Ancients,Moa)
Darkend Screen (Moa)

---------------
Grineer

Stagger (Roller)
Knockdown (Bombard,Heavy Gunner)
Disarm (Dhrak Master)
Switch Teleport (Commander)

---------------
Corpus

Nullifier (Nullifier)
UI scramble (Comba)
Blind (Bursa)
Slow (Bursa)
Knockdown (Bursa, Moa)

Honestly I would like to see some CC be used by the smaller units besides standard procs. Like Corpus units can have a grenade that can blind or slow, along with the standard explosive one. These can be shot and destroyed before they activate so there's some counterplay. Infested Chargers have an actual charge that can knock a player down with a telegraphed animation but low probability of use, or crawlers/exploders that when killed arm and explode blinding anyone nearby with bile. As for Grineer probably a flash bang. Just my thoughts :3

[.Re-light.]

On 4/6/2017 at 2:11 PM, Lancars said:

No matter how fast you move there are times where you get harpooned and dragged. Then you get bumped around a few times by shockwaves only to get harpooned again. You can't keep your guard up and kill things at the same time. The harpoons can home in on you. When i fight infested i already have to move around all the time cause of the chargers melee attack being devastating and the ranged ground attacks the MOA"s can spit on the ground that can chew through you. "Keep moving" isn't a valid argument since you'll be hit anyway by this stuff. Getting road hauled and batted around isn't fun no matter how much you try to avoid it.

Hm, that first line is only possible if you are sleepwalking. Most CC you talk about has  already been balanced/nerfed from how some of it started from. The only "newer" ace foes got on us are Nullies and even those are very manageable. 

 Now if this is a post about a need for more varied CC from enemies with actuall flashed out ideas, I might upvote. But you got to be careful what you with for. 

 

  However, if this is about just "their CC toooo stronk"... well someone said it above, I won't repeat. If it is that, I wish I could downvote, game is easy enough!

 You also got mods that will make you resist most of knockdowns if you really, really, really... wanna walk around like a Japanese tourist with a camera.

 

[FireSegment]

17 hours ago, taiiat said:

i think you do - Nullifiers have been made irrelevant. since the introduction of their Drone (but unrelated to the Drone), Nullifiers are no longer relevant - they're a Sniper Crewman with a second Shield. but that bubble shield is less effective at doing anything than their own personal Shield.

i believe that as long as the null bubble still shut down our ability effect, prevent casting spell, then it would remain it debuff effect (or CC, i ... just really dont want to use the word CC). The only different is that it's a debuff sphere that we can counter, unlike, for example, Comba distortion or graphook where we got no counter.

That just now also open up a few new question: Should we make more method of countering enemy debuff (CC) in mission? How should the debuff scale with mission difficulty? How much diverse is need to make us feel engaged rather than annoyed?

i .. dont really have the answer for all of them, i do have some idea but they would mostly be irrelevant when we still able to 1 shot every1 before they apply it. The way the game as it is now, if you cant one-shot the enemy at hand, most of the time u wont live long enough in late game to see them debuff you anyway, that's why most of the "strong" debuff we listed are sudden stun and .. have no counter (in mission). 

 

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, FireSegment said:

i believe that as long as the null bubble still shut down our ability effect, prevent casting spell, then it would remain it debuff effect (or CC, i ... just really dont want to use the word CC). The only different is that it's a debuff sphere that we can counter, unlike, for example, Comba distortion or graphook where we got no counter.

That just now also open up a few new question: Should we make more method of countering enemy debuff (CC) in mission? How should the debuff scale with mission difficulty? How much diverse is need to make us feel engaged rather than annoyed?

Modular Corpus can be countered - shooting them in the face i.e. knocking off the Helmet - disables the Nullification capabilities.

counters are nice, but not the only means - sufficient telegraphing to make sure Players can be notified before being hit by a CC type when there's 50 Enemies around is a fine option as well for giving the Player a reasonable opportunity.
Grapple Hooks are a good example though, for there isn't a counter that is available within the time window, which would be fine if the Telegraph didn't also happen at the same time the attack is fired, rather than any notification ahead of time. there's an animation Telegraph, which is acceptable but again that dozens of Enemies at once occluding each other, Et Cetera.
i suppose it really doesn't help the situation that like in most games, Enemies can attack through each other freely, even if there's enough that you can't see half or more of the Enemies.

[Ventura_Highway]

On 4/6/2017 at 6:41 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

It's called situational awareness. Some of us like being rewarded for having it and not just sleep walking through missions

Most cc in this game is telegraphed and gives you time to counter

Not the Grineer commander though.

I make it a point of dismembering them as violently as possible.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

On 4/7/2017 at 7:50 AM, LycanPT said:

I am being sarcastic because you make it seem this game is not a hoard game, you can't dodge eveything you will get caught no matter how good at moving you are, and you actually get caught way more often than you think you do, thing is at low level you don't get punished for it so for you that is not a problem, if you get CC'd at level below maybe sortie 3 even in a squishy frame chances are you don't get to be punshed by it, it is just a small annoyance overshadowed by the fact you got away with it. but when you start to be really punished by being CC'd when you have to dodge everything for the sake of your life you will actually see how many times you don't even stand a chance, afterall this is a numbers game and the numbers are not on our side. Now things could be diminished by removing the ammount of this units, so when you are actually playing you can select them as priority targets if you wish so, this would actually allow you to have some battle management in order to survive instead of the kill everything that moves and hope there is no one left standing while you reload. and the units that lost their hard cc could have other roles in the battle like trying everything so that the few hard CC units can perform their roles. You know add some build up time to an event that if you don't avoid you know you performed badly, as of now this game is 0 and 1, you either avoid or get knocked and trust me they will get you from your back, how do you even avoid that? Most of people try to keep their back to the corner, but that also hinders your movement as you enter in a tight space, so your last resort is to bullet jump away and place yourself into another corner, all the other strategies and clutter like boxes are just not viable because a unit just cc's you making you exposed to all the other units gunfire

are you seriously sure you are playing wf? getting cc is not that annoying, you drop down, you stand up then you melt enemies face. the level where cc can kill you is when enemies can already ohk you so yeah it still does not matter.

hate being cc by enemies? there is a constitution mod or atlas frame.

enemy cc is a mechanic that diversifies gameplay, prioritize these target or else.  move dodge fire while running.

annoying yeah but it is part of the game, removing it might.make.the game easier and boring.

[LycanPT]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

are you seriously sure you are playing wf? getting cc is not that annoying, you drop down, you stand up then you melt enemies face. the level where cc can kill you is when enemies can already ohk you so yeah it still does not matter.

hate being cc by enemies? there is a constitution mod or atlas frame.

enemy cc is a mechanic that diversifies gameplay, prioritize these target or else.  move dodge fire while running.

annoying yeah but it is part of the game, removing it might.make.the game easier and boring.

I think you are the one who doesn't play WF at all, your last part of the first sentence makes no sense at all.

yeah there are loadouts that can do that but that is not a solution to the problem

the enemy CC doesn't diversify absolutely nothing and prioritize in a hoarde game where 90% of units have the same kind or similar CC is like "brb gonna get my simulor that way I can prioritize the whole room, fire on the move no aim no problem mate"...

And no one is asking for removal of CC, and the game would not be easier because the CC as it exists increases no possible degree of challenging gameplay, is either just annoys you or kill you

Edited April 8, 2017 by LycanPT

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

3 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

I think you are the one who doesn't play WF at all, your last part of the first sentence makes no sense at all.

yeah there are loadouts that can do that but that is not a solution to the problem

the enemy CC doesn't diversify absolutely nothing and prioritize in a hoarde game where 90% of units have the same kind or similar CC is like "brb gonna get my simulor that way I can prioritize the whole room, fire on the move no aim no problem mate"...

And no one is asking for removal of CC, and the game would not be easier because the CC as it exists increases no possible degree of challenging gameplay, is either just annoys you or kill you

first sentence makes perfect sense because this is warframe not call of duty or tom clancy games.

[LycanPT]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

first sentence makes perfect sense because this is warframe not call of duty or tom clancy games.

look go do some long survivals without naramon or any kind of invis, that shall enlighten you. then you can come back and actually start talking about what you know about

Edited April 8, 2017 by LycanPT

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

8 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

look go do some long survivals without naramon or any kind of invis, that shall enlighten you. then you can come back and actually start talking about what you know about

i know what long survival will do to you if you dont have cheese. also aside from naramon you can use nova, banshee sonar with silence, go build a lockdown build etc. 

but this is not because of enemy cc at that point anyone will one hit kill you regardless if enemy has cc or not. this is when you spend a whole clip on one enemy, this is when you dropped without knowing who hit you. 

if you have talking about enemy scaling then yeah i will agree that sucks but enemy cc? 

if enemy starts killing you and being knocked down means death then extract because you already have reached the capability of your build and loadout.

[low1991]

To solve the CC problem, you got to use this 'Mod' or use melee block, or be SMART/situation awareness. This answer #$%^ me off

[Madotsuki]

While enemy CC is mostly fine right now, there's definately certain things that should be changed, because seriously, getting combo dragged by 3 Eximi Ancients when their hooks are almost hitscan with no telegraphs and lead the target with 100% accuracy is pretty damn BS, and no one should have to be FORCED to use a certain mod in a game that's all about customization just to mitigate getting stunlocked to death, because stunlocking shouldn't be happening in the first place.

For Ancients and Scorpions, an easy solution would be to simply change how the hook works. Rather than knocking the player down first, it simply drags you in a split second yank to the unit while you're still standing and in control of your frame, at least the shooting part, and you regain control instantly after the hook. Think getting hooked by Roadhog in Overwatch, it's fast and instant, and you don't get disabled for several seconds every time it happens.

Stompers like Moas need a better audio cue so you can hear one charging up a stomp from behind you, but that's about it, you can just jump over their shockwaves after all, and they do have a long wind-up. Grineer Heavy ground pounds need to be restricted to ground only instead of spherical AoE like they do right now OR have a longer wind-up similar to Moas (I actually prefer they have a shorter range but non-ground restricted CC, but it has practically no warning right now).

Really, the biggest offender to "unfair CC" in this game are Grineer Commanders. Don't need line of sight, no telegraph, LITERALLY impossible to avoid once it triggers, and stuns you in a forced animation for several seconds while enemies wail on you freely. There ought to be some kind of LoS requirement and telegraph, like say, a light tether connected to the target Tenno that you have 2 seconds to break by breaking LoS with the Commander, after which you get switch teleported but do NOT have the forced "OMG I IZ CONFUSED SPACE NINJA" animation.

In the end, Warframe is a mindless horde shooter with tons of content and almost zero depth, a knee-deep ocean if you will. I've long since given up hope of any complex AI or interesting enemy types, they'd just die instantly to overpowered player gear or be forced to become bullet sponges, and imbalance is just a thing that's going to stay, because it's far too late to remodel the game to fit any form of complexity. All we can hope for are small quality of life changes that make the annoying parts of the game slightly less annoying, and just find ways to tolerate or bypass the rest.