What are you a minmaxer?

[Volinus7]

59 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Maybe I dun get smth. But ain't bigger constant online makes more people more kin to invest real money into a game?  

Maybe most players don't feel this hollowness of gameplay that you feel? They don't analyze things and are more simpleminded than you think? That's why they're satisfied by the current state of the game?

Farewell then.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Volinus7

[Rimril]

I know that DERebecca does play the game, i've been in a pick up group with her.  I was all like "farming for stuff sucks" and she was all like "yeah, i hear u"

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

Maybe most players don't feel this hollowness of gameplay that you feel? They don't analyze things and are more simpleminded than you think? That's why they're satisfied by the current state of the game?

Or maybe they just don't play the game anymore. I don't think other people are stupid. I'm the dumb one. If even I understand that unstructured unmotivated expierience gets really old really quickly... or maybe you're right. *emo-mode* I'll just go drown myself.

2 hours ago, Rimril said:

I know that DERebecca does play the game, i've been in a pick up group with her.  I was all like "farming for stuff sucks" and she was all like "yeah, i hear u"

  Did she ask you, why it sucks?

Edited April 20, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[blackheartstar_pc]

21 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So, sorry, no boss fights,

Yeah, they never update boss fights. Anubis isn't hapening, and Kela D. is exactly as she was when first introduced. I wouldn't think they are working on a brand new Corpus boss. You would be plain insane to think that.

21 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

They never minmax,

Nor do a lot of players. Most play for fun not efficiency. Imagine that. I know it's hard if you follow some of the warframe communities that preach meta/min/max but it's not the standard.

21 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

they never farm anything,

Too a lesser extent there are players that do not do this as well. All things just come while playing. It's not a race give it time.

21 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

they never play in random open que.

I'll give you this one for Steve but Reb I'm not so sure.

21 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

They don't spend time in their own game probably because they themselves don't enjoy it and they don't care to invest time into understanding the problem.

or they don't play it because they are spending 8+ hours a day working on it, seeing the assets, and talking about things to be worked on both old and new. I can't imagine why after spending all that time during the work day working on and talking/arguing about Warframe that they would go home and play other games. They must be crazy not to want to spend their off time playing work. Also if you read between the lines it sure sounds like some of them do play in their off time.

Also what exactly is the problem? Too many nerfs? If so I get that but if not that then what?

Edited April 21, 2017 by blackheartstar_pc

[Monolake]

Why would they care?  DE is making millions selling cosmetics to casuals who dont want challenge.

 

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 hours ago, Monolake said:

Why would they care?  DE is making millions selling cosmetics to casuals who dont want challenge.

You really overestimate the amount of money they make - especially individually. And underestimate how much a game like Warframe depends on the community. 

[Volinus7]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You really overestimate the amount of money they make - especially individually. And underestimate how much a game like Warframe depends on the community. 

$36M gross profit last year. http://leyoutech.com.hk/investors-relation/financial-reports

[AperoBeltaTwo]

9 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Yeah, they never update boss fights. Anubis isn't hapening, and Kela D. is exactly as she was when first introduced. I wouldn't think they are working on a brand new Corpus boss. You would be plain insane to think that.

Taken out of context. Warframe needs a structural overhaul. Assigning various scaling with difficulty rewards to various planets and locations - rewards tradeble and valuable in the context of the game from the perspective of other players and not just in the context of crafting. Ducats for example are basically trinkets for getting "special gear" from Baro. Ducats are valuable in the game because a) you can buy unique stuff for ducats; b) you can trade ducats with other players for the ingame currency (primed junk). These two aspects make ducats valuable in the context of the game - thus a worthwhile standalone reward. And before the Void 2.0 disaster you had to invest your time and effort into the game to earn more ducats, which in turn motivated you to engage actively with the Warframe's core mechanics and spend time playing the actual game.
 I can't even stress enough how much of a mistake I think Void 2.0 was. It's a nod to the people who didn't like the game and didn't like spending time in the game. To the people who simply wanted to farm everything new as quickly as possible and leave till the next big content update. Encouraging such a way of playing the game - any game, - is a primary reason for the content fatigue. Especially in a pve game. It's a disaster. Void 2.0 was basically DE "generously" saying: "Here guys, take all this stuff we worked so hard to create for free it ain't really worth nuthing. You dun even need to invest your time in our game to get all this. In fact, you've been playing Warframe for over an hour so please take a break." 
 Whoever in the community suggested to "reduce grind" in a game about killing hordes of enemies, did Warframe an incredible disservice if not a fatal blow (let's not dramatize too much tho).
 Getting back to the point now: No matter how much DE change or rework the surface level stuff like bossfights and individual frames or graphics - as long as the expierience itself isn't motivationally structured and grounded in the online aspects of the game, all their efforts and hard work are in vain. (and I'm not even dramatizing here). 

9 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Nor do a lot of players. Most play for fun not efficiency. Imagine that. I know it's hard if you follow some of the warframe communities that preach meta/min/max but it's not the standard.

 Don't confuse minmaxing and meta. Logic of minmaxing is simple - as you progress through the game and put more time into it you naturally get all the best gear. Simple as that. The more time you invest - the better gear you have on hands (unless you put some restrictions on yourself that forbids you from fully expieriencing certain game modes and mechanics - whitch is, why would you do that? that way a whole portion of content would never be available to you, meaning you'll never play Warframe to the fullest).
 Simple example - continuity and primed continuity mods. If you have Primed continuity there's really no reason to use regular one right? Same with minmaxing. You simply get new better gear as you go through the game and you learn how to build your weapons and frames to maximize their potential. It's a natural progression. 
 And meta? Only inexpierienced players really bother with the meta in pve games. As long as the gear is sufficient for the task at hand - people will take whatever they like. That's where creativity comes into play. If you're talking about "camping" tho - it's a boring thing in all games, but I don't think players shouldn't be allowed even this kind of choice.
 Choice is most important thing. If you don't want to farm and spend too much time in the game - don't do it, buy prime access, support the game with your money. If you want to have everything in the game but don't have money - pay with your time, it's just as valuable. Wanna play meta - do it if you have sufficient gear. Wanna play solo - do it. Wanna play with friends or just a random team - go for it. If you like to goof around with unmaxed gear - there's missions for you. If you want to utilize your builds to the fullest there has to be a gameplay for that too (there's none right now). And all of the above has to be clearly motivated by the reward system that works not only in the gameplay context but also in relation to other players.
 The main issue with Warframe right now is that the players' choice was limited in favour of gameplay that doesn't encourage time-investment.
 Which is a huge issue for the longevity of any project - especially coop pve games like Warframe.

10 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Too a lesser extent there are players that do not do this as well. All things just come while playing. It's not a race give it time.

I think I answered this one already. It's not a race ofc, but the more time you spend in the game - the better gear you get and the more knowledge about the game you acquire. For DE in particular playing the game is their job. If they don't do it - nobody will. And if people who worked on Warframe from the very beginning don't have a first-person understanding of the game - no matter how much time you give them, - as long as this fact doesn't change, nothing will change. I repeat myself, but you can't cook a good meal without knowing what food tastes like.

10 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

I'll give you this one for Steve but Reb I'm not so sure.

Steve is the one who should do it. Steve and all the other guys who actually have a say in how Warframe would turn out to be. The fact that even com. manager doesn't play the game to the fullest is just another indicator of the bigger problem.

10 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

or they don't play it because they are spending 8+ hours a day working on it

Playing Warframe is a part of their job. Understanding how the game works mechanically is their primary employment requirement.

10 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Also what exactly is the problem? Too many nerfs? If so I get that but if not that then what?

I answered these.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

19 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

$36M gross profit last year. http://leyoutech.com.hk/investors-relation/financial-reports

How much of it comes from Warframe? Devs that we know are employees on a medium-sized salary. They don't get these money and it doesn't seem like much for a whole company that has been in business since 1993. 
Remark: But I'm not an economist, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited April 21, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Volinus7]

13 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How much of it comes from Warframe? Devs that we know are employees on a medium-sized salary. They don't get these money and it doesn't seem like much for a whole company that has been in business since 1993. 
Remark: But I'm not an economist, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's biannual compounded aka 6 months. Yes, it came from Warframe only. It's already a cashcow, maybe that's why they don't risk expanding personnel. 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Volinus7

[AperoBeltaTwo]

27 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

That's biannual compounded aka 6 months. Yes, it came from Warframe only. 

I honestly can't tell if that's good or bad. It might be interesting to compare with other similar projects - free to play, coop-multiplayer, heavily pve-based without a huge pre-dating franchise fanbase. First thing I would think about would be Destiny, but that's not F2P. What else? PvP games don't count - they have the "endless gameplay" section covered. And we shoudn't really compare Warframe with Eve online, or should we?  

Edited April 21, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[StinkyPygmy]

2salty4me

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

2salty4me

Ye, I have enough salt for a whole dead sea. I spent a lot of my time in the game and suddenly all that effort became irrelevant. Ofc I would be bitter.

[Monolake]

2 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

$36M gross profit last year. http://leyoutech.com.hk/investors-relation/financial-reports

Very interesting find!

[Djego27]

On 21.4.2017 at 3:55 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How much of it comes from Warframe? Devs that we know are employees on a medium-sized salary. They don't get these money and it doesn't seem like much for a whole company that has been in business since 1993. 
Remark: But I'm not an economist, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

It is quite a big figure, given that most other companies do not make that on a AAA game that they develop for years with a much higher budget. Keep in mind profit means money after you did pay for development, personal, rent and other expenses.

Eve online kind of was in a similar state where the developers did mostly "carrot on a stick balance", the best thing was obvious however something different then before to motivate people to spend more money on sub to get that and to keep her game in motion. It took years and 2 financial failures(ftp console shooter that started just bad even if it became a fairly good game at the end of his lifetime but with far to little of a player base and WOD MMO were they wasted millions of dollars for nothing, because this is what you get when you have a project director that has no idea what he actually wants in the game) for them to actually hire somebody that understands the game and do the balance for them. In the last couple of years nearly every ship class that was touched went form 10-20% useful options to 90%+.

In the end DE just needs to hire one single person that is familiar with the game and how it works under the hood to:

- make a shotgun rework where status shotguns are not nerfed to a point where they are no option at all for high levels, a few shotguns in the medium range are all right and Tigris and Hek are just far to good, the reason why nobody uses everything else

- a sniper rework that does something useful without a ton of gimmicks and terrible no scope action, while all what sniper rifles need are maps where it makes sense to use one, take the big corpus interception map, turn all consoles towards the middle and here you go you just have a big map where it makes sense to use a sniper, since you can control the map with it and in interception you only need to score the kill on units that try to take over the point to hold the map, the same reason why snipers in archwing(before they reworked the map and put so much stuff on it that you can no longer make 2km+ shot from control points) actually where fairly useful, at least for this one game mode.

- a focus system that is more then 2 broken abilities, less then 10 that I would considered reasonable well balanced options compared each others(like instant revives, extra IPS damage for high level play etc.) and the rest next to never used by anybody in the hole game.

- not nearly every new unit utterly broken on release, like cats from hell that did for some reason 20 times more damage than "intended", one hit killing you in a normal frame on staturn hellene(a defence on saturn that did start below L20) because nobody even tested it

As for the boss question, it is impossible to create a good and challenging boss fight with the amount of broken mechanics. How would you craft a dps check, when a new player hardly can kill L30 units with armor, while even a frame that is considered as not useful for damage at high levels like Ember can solo L100 extra armor survival sortis in the kuva fortress and face melt targets with millions of EHP in seconds. How would you craft a tanking check when traditional tanking(in a sense of using it as a tool to prevent others from taking damage) does not work, every frame with a tank like ability has for some reason 10 times the EHP of normal frames and we even have god mode or repeatable cheat death mechanics that would make it utterly trivial. How would you make a team play check when healers are instant healing what is not even used that much since people are also instant death by any damage and you mostly use the damage resist aspect and tanks do not work. In warframes case with little mini games like puzzle room in LOR, because this is the best you can do if any other option is just incapable to be executed as a group with the amount of cheese and broken mechanics we have in the game.

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Djego27

[Volinus7]

13 hours ago, Djego27 said:

-snip-

I doubt they'd make a map just to match snipers characteristics because they don't overlap with other types of guns, the result will look like a question that has single answer plain and boring. Nevertheless map overhaul is necessary and long overdue. 

 

Funny simulation... 

Imagine you hired 2 directors with opposite style and personality... 

The first one wants infinite horde mode with broken superpowers and loot rain while the other wants defined fair difficulty which doesn't go well with Skinner's box.

Chaos/infighting in their office is inevitable I guess.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Volinus7

[AperoBeltaTwo]

12 hours ago, Djego27 said:

It is quite a big figure, given that most other companies do not make that on a AAA game that they develop for years with a much higher budget. Keep in mind profit means money after you did pay for development, personal, rent and other expenses.

Eve online kind of was in a similar state where the developers did mostly "carrot on a stick balance", the best thing was obvious however something different then before to motivate people to spend more money on sub to get that and to keep her game in motion. It took years and 2 financial failures(ftp console shooter that started just bad even if it became a fairly good game at the end of his lifetime but with far to little of a player base and WOD MMO were they wasted millions of dollars for nothing, because this is what you get when you have a project director that has no idea what he actually wants in the game) for them to actually hire somebody that understands the game and do the balance for them. In the last couple of years nearly every ship class that was touched went form 10-20% useful options to 90%+.

In the end DE just needs to hire one single person that is familiar with the game and how it works under the hood to:

- make a shotgun rework where status shotguns are not nerfed to a point where they are no option at all for high levels, a few shotguns in the medium range are all right and Tigris and Hek are just far to good, the reason why nobody uses everything else

- a sniper rework that does something useful without a ton of gimmicks and terrible no scope action, while all what sniper rifles need are maps where it makes sense to use one, take the big corpus interception map, turn all consoles towards the middle and here you go you just have a big map where it makes sense to use a sniper, since you can control the map with it and in interception you only need to score the kill on units that try to take over the point to hold the map, the same reason why snipers in archwing(before they reworked the map and put so much stuff on it that you can no longer make 2km+ shot from control points) actually where fairly useful, at least for this one game mode.

- a focus system that is more then 2 broken abilities, less then 10 that I would considered reasonable well balanced options compared each others(like instant revives, extra IPS damage for high level play etc.) and the rest next to never used by anybody in the hole game.

- not nearly every new unit utterly broken on release, like cats from hell that did for some reason 20 times more damage than "intended", one hit killing you in a normal frame on staturn hellene(a defence on saturn that did start below L20) because nobody even tested it

As for the boss question, it is impossible to create a good and challenging boss fight with the amount of broken mechanics. How would you craft a dps check, when a new player hardly can kill L30 units with armor, while even a frame that is considered as not useful for damage at high levels like Ember can solo L100 extra armor survival sortis in the kuva fortress and face melt targets with millions of EHP in seconds. How would you craft a tanking check when traditional tanking(in a sense of using it as a tool to prevent others from taking damage) does not work, every frame with a tank like ability has for some reason 10 times the EHP of normal frames and we even have god mode or repeatable cheat death mechanics that would make it utterly trivial. How would you make a team play check when healers are instant healing what is not even used that much since people are also instant death by any damage and you mostly use the damage resist aspect and tanks do not work. In warframes case with little mini games like puzzle room in LOR, because this is the best you can do if any other option is just incapable to be executed as a group with the amount of cheese and broken mechanics we have in the game.

But look, we're getting another warframe, another quest and a pistol! Oh, and a machete stance!

- The problem with status shotguns is that if they're unable to reach 100% status before the multishot stat, status chance is spread between the pellets and ends up being 5-8% per pellet which is even worse than it sounds. On the contrary 25-30%+ base status chance shotguns are actually pretty fun and powerful (25% if riven disposition is strong enough). If the formula was changed to work the same way as crit formula does - the problem would have been solved pretty much.

- Sniper rework is more problematic. Narrow halls and limited space - Warframe tiles aren't built for sniper rifles, - so forcing people to play with a scope by decreasing no-scope pointblank accuracy is plain-out toxic in my opinion. The issue might have been solved if sniper rifles (at least scoped) could ignore\bypass object health. Innate punchthrough on all sniper rifles (scope\no scope) is also a requirement - having to kill one enemy at a time in a horde shooter is what makes most of the sniper rifles so unreliable (it limits you to CC frames and the weapon you use doesn't really matter at that point). Scope levels should be adjusted as well - there's a reason why -50% zoom is such a desirable stat on a sniper rifle riven. There's also no real reason to have more than 2 scope levels. Considering the combo counter on sniper rifles (as well as on melee weapons), it should be way longer without any present or upcoming band-aid mods. The fact that combo counter drops when you miss is something to discuss with the "git gud" activists - I personally don't like losing combo counter every time my teammate nukes the enemy I was aiming at. 

- Focus system is a mess. Operators weren't properly integrated into the gameplay. Honestly, I don't know what to do with this. They're just a side mechanic that has nothing to do with the game. Zenurik energy restore is very much welcome, but everything else is either op or useless. And even Zenurik - why do you have to level up a specific focus tree just to be able to comfortably use your abilities in the mission? Zenurik problem is more apparent than Naramon's brain-dead passive. When Naramon's invinci... sorry, invisibility you can dismiss as something inherently stupid, Zenurik is just a quality of life gameplay improvement (similar to vacuum btw). Lack of innate health and energy regeneration in Warframe is a mistery to me. It would work in a game like Dark Souls, but it definitely doesn't work in Warframe. Yes, you can mod around it, but, again - bandaids.

- Corpus Techs.


 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

16 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Chaos/infighting in their office is inevitable I guess.

We have a game that is inherently a horde shooter with superpowers where all gameplay is based on either killing or avoiding those hords (even though with current ingame spawning and spoting mechanics stealth ain't really viable without invisibility - in fact even with invisibility). On the other hand we have game devs who, while making a horde shooter for some reason disapprove that identity, focusing on quests and new content while ignoring the primary gameplay. It came full circle... ugh... If people like Steve never really played the game - no matter what people tell them, they won't understand. It's such a downer. Ugh.

I'm tired. I'll really go now. Was a pleasure to talk to all of you guys in the past few days. Cheers.

[Djego27]

On 22.4.2017 at 2:58 PM, Volinus7 said:

Imagine you hired 2 directors with opposite style and personality... 

The first one wants infinite horde mode with broken superpowers and loot rain while the other wants defined fair difficulty which doesn't go well with Skinner's box.

Chaos/infighting in their office is inevitable I guess.

I would not agree that a reasonable well balanced game with difficulty doesn't go well with the Skinner's box mechanic to rewarding behaviour or in some cases discouraging it, since it also does this, however in a less stream lined way where the developer or in case of a experiment the person that sets it up has already the desire to trigger a specific reaction.

It just adds a ton more levers to the thing and let people experiment with what they like the most in a creative way, rather then presenting a clearly superior option(like giving food to a hungry animal) if you use a specific combinations of mechanics and nothing else.

The only issue is that it requires more work and thought process put into it. There will never be such a thing as 2 directors that want different things and also try to implement them at the same time in productive software engineering. However there could be the realization that adding more fairness and difficulty while tuning down broken super powers might be beneficial, since it gives players more choice and a bigger reason for a long therm time investment. It also gives the developer more options when it comes to new content and gear, given resets are very expensive(like damage 2.0 probably was) and people judge every piece of new gear and content compared to what is already in the game simply by "it is better so I get it, it is the same so it is underpowered" what does not create much room for DE them self, leave alone a more robust platform that would be required to really present fair and difficult game content.

 

On 22.4.2017 at 3:13 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

But look, we're getting another warframe, another quest and a pistol! Oh, and a machete stance!

- The problem with status shotguns is that if they're unable to reach 100% status before the multishot stat, status chance is spread between the pellets and ends up being 5-8% per pellet which is even worse than it sounds. On the contrary 25-30%+ base status chance shotguns are actually pretty fun and powerful (25% if riven disposition is strong enough). If the formula was changed to work the same way as crit formula does - the problem would have been solved pretty much.

- Sniper rework is more problematic. Narrow halls and limited space - Warframe tiles aren't built for sniper rifles, - so forcing people to play with a scope by decreasing no-scope pointblank accuracy is plain-out toxic in my opinion. The issue might have been solved if sniper rifles (at least scoped) could ignore\bypass object health. Innate punchthrough on all sniper rifles (scope\no scope) is also a requirement - having to kill one enemy at a time in a horde shooter is what makes most of the sniper rifles so unreliable (it limits you to CC frames and the weapon you use doesn't really matter at that point). Scope levels should be adjusted as well - there's a reason why -50% zoom is such a desirable stat on a sniper rifle riven. There's also no real reason to have more than 2 scope levels. Considering the combo counter on sniper rifles (as well as on melee weapons), it should be way longer without any present or upcoming band-aid mods. The fact that combo counter drops when you miss is something to discuss with the "git gud" activists - I personally don't like losing combo counter every time my teammate nukes the enemy I was aiming at. 

- Focus system is a mess. Operators weren't properly integrated into the gameplay. Honestly, I don't know what to do with this. They're just a side mechanic that has nothing to do with the game. Zenurik energy restore is very much welcome, but everything else is either op or useless. And even Zenurik - why do you have to level up a specific focus tree just to be able to comfortably use your abilities in the mission? Zenurik problem is more apparent than Naramon's brain-dead passive. When Naramon's invinci... sorry, invisibility you can dismiss as something inherently stupid, Zenurik is just a quality of life gameplay improvement (similar to vacuum btw). Lack of innate health and energy regeneration in Warframe is a mistery to me. It would work in a game like Dark Souls, but it definitely doesn't work in Warframe. Yes, you can mod around it, but, again - bandaids.

- Corpus Techs.

 I do agree that changing the status mechanic on shotguns to pellet instead of divide them by that would be overall beneficial to better balance the weapon class since it is absurd to status mod shotguns that can not archive that while status shotguns overall are fairly balanced compared to other weapon classes and other weapons in her own class. The problem is just that even with a riven for status a boar prime is hardly better then a vhek in sortis, even with a lot more issues present on the weapon itself. Same goes to the strun wraith that needs a reload speed riven or frame powers to get to a point where it is a option. In return the Hek and Tigris series do more damage then other weapons in her class and even in other classes for no real justifiable reason.

I do agree that there are better ways to balance them for indoor use then DE added. However I still think the biggest problem is the lack of maps where the zoom and abilty to kill specific units very precisely and quick form a big distance really would make them shine naturally.

I think the focus system is just to passive and to obvious to really present another layer how we play our game. It simply does not add much to our game play what I think is a shame, since it could as well just do that.

Shadow step could be changed to just provide invisibility on crit or kills, what still provides a useful effect, while putting invisibility for like 30s on the base skill and making affinity also charge the focus meter to quicker build up. Now we went from a passive to something that you actually have to use mindful, while it is still a solid choice if you like stealth game play.

Same could be done with mandurai, given a 30% weapon base damage buff on use for like 30s while allowing to pick 2-3 extras for her preferred high level weapon like 10% extra base status, 30% more reload speed or changing the proc ratio on your weapons(like a 50% higher chance to proc slash). So it would mostly be a good option for weapon based frames.

Even Unairu could be made very good for people that like actual melee, providing base armor to make even not so tanky frames more viable of melee runs at high levels, having the core ability turn all melee damage into finisher damage for 30s and various tank, armor mitigation or even added channelling mechanics in it.

Zenurik should be tuned down to 1 energy per second and instead the ring you put down on ability use should be bigger and restore as much as a medium energy restore pad. So instead of having unlimited energy, you have to be more mindful with it and with the use of the ability that now can help your hole team a lot as well if you use it at the right time.

Vazarin could add other benefits like higher resource drop chance and more XP for 30s after activation for you and everybody in range(lets say 30m) while adding a volt charge like mechanic that allows you to heal people in your squad by getting close to them and doing a certain move(like a roll) to heal them.

A lot of units are big out liners at higher levels and should be looked at to provide more interactive and fun game play at high levels by keeping the game playable by player skill instead of ability spam.

 

[Volinus7]

1 hour ago, Djego27 said:

 

 Just like your example on why there're many problems with bosses, causes are the foundation of the game that is why they pretend that the foundation is fine to avoid overhaul, their balancing are lackluster and touch few things at a time which cannot keep up with the rate of item release ever. The distortion and differences between old and new frames are the best proof that this style of balancing is obsolete, when balancing is needed they must take everything into account and do it in one fell swoop.

But...There's a reason why it's like that. Fewer choices mean it's easier to control players progression rate and promote flavor of the month to boost sales at the same time.

Their greatest fear is they are afraid that suddenly shifting the whole gameplay into fairness and raising overall difficulty will result in revenue crash mayhem like J.C. Penny's.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Volinus7

[(PSN)DBR87]

I think many people would take OP's complaints more seriously if he was being more factual and not exaggerating to get his point across. Scott replayed the game as Mag and not only did Mag get a rework for the better IMO but the new player experience was streamlined.

I am fully willing to admit that their focus on the new player content and cosmetics can be off putting to myself and the rest of the veteran community, it seems. However, they are a business and what they are doing is making them money. Still, we recently got weapon buffs and nerfs, they have revamped boss fights, and they have continually said both boss fight revamps and weapon balance changes are coming. They play their game and they listen to their veteran community members. They don't always do what we ask or say, but they don't have to. It's their game and they'll do what they feel will bring in the most revenue and retain customers. Outside of that I at least get the impression DE leadership has a passion for this game and not simply 'selling plat' and what not.

Like seriously, how many systems have been overhauled in Warframe? Parkour, Melee, Damage. What other game overhauls core systems like Damage and Movement?

Edited April 22, 2017 by (PS4)DBR87

[Djego27]

While that logic is fine, the problem is that it makes older content more and more obsolete to a point where FOTM sale, removes more and more options form the players, restrict developers what they can do with new content and revenue from faster and faster expected expansions, because what is relevant is only what was sold last and needs to be replaced to trigger sales again instead of using existent content as a advantage. It is done and there, why not monetize it?

 

[Volinus7]

27 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

While that logic is fine, the problem is that it makes older content more and more obsolete to a point where FOTM sale, removes more and more options form the players, restrict developers what they can do with new content and revenue from faster and faster expected expansions, because what is relevant is only what was sold last and needs to be replaced to trigger sales again instead of using existent content as a advantage. It is done and there, why not monetize it?

 

There're no restrictions because they can ner*...*ahem* fix previous items to pave way for new items :)

Yes, they can't pull a stunt like that repeatedly even so they've survived on this strategy for 4 years. It's at the equilibrium where population rotation can uphold this kind of never-ending cat chases mouse. 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Volinus7

[Djego27]

While it is a interesting way looking at it, it feels far to inconsistent to really work.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

5 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

But look, we're getting another warframe, another quest and a pistol! Oh, and a machete stance!

- The problem with status shotguns is that if they're unable to reach 100% status before the multishot stat, status chance is spread between the pellets and ends up being 5-8% per pellet which is even worse than it sounds. On the contrary 25-30%+ base status chance shotguns are actually pretty fun and powerful (25% if riven disposition is strong enough). If the formula was changed to work the same way as crit formula does - the problem would have been solved pretty much.

- Sniper rework is more problematic. Narrow halls and limited space - Warframe tiles aren't built for sniper rifles, - so forcing people to play with a scope by decreasing no-scope pointblank accuracy is plain-out toxic in my opinion. The issue might have been solved if sniper rifles (at least scoped) could ignore\bypass object health. Innate punchthrough on all sniper rifles (scope\no scope) is also a requirement - having to kill one enemy at a time in a horde shooter is what makes most of the sniper rifles so unreliable (it limits you to CC frames and the weapon you use doesn't really matter at that point). Scope levels should be adjusted as well - there's a reason why -50% zoom is such a desirable stat on a sniper rifle riven. There's also no real reason to have more than 2 scope levels. Considering the combo counter on sniper rifles (as well as on melee weapons), it should be way longer without any present or upcoming band-aid mods. The fact that combo counter drops when you miss is something to discuss with the "git gud" activists - I personally don't like losing combo counter every time my teammate nukes the enemy I was aiming at. 

- Focus system is a mess. Operators weren't properly integrated into the gameplay. Honestly, I don't know what to do with this. They're just a side mechanic that has nothing to do with the game. Zenurik energy restore is very much welcome, but everything else is either op or useless. And even Zenurik - why do you have to level up a specific focus tree just to be able to comfortably use your abilities in the mission? Zenurik problem is more apparent than Naramon's brain-dead passive. When Naramon's invinci... sorry, invisibility you can dismiss as something inherently stupid, Zenurik is just a quality of life gameplay improvement (similar to vacuum btw). Lack of innate health and energy regeneration in Warframe is a mistery to me. It would work in a game like Dark Souls, but it definitely doesn't work in Warframe. Yes, you can mod around it, but, again - bandaids.

- Corpus Techs.


 

I agree, base gameplay needs to be addressed. Focus, is anything but focused! There are quite a few things that I feel should be present in the game that simply aren't.

Examples of this are passive health and energy regeneration; nothing monumental, just something like 1 energy/hp a second. Our Warframes can be complete strategic weapons and nuke an entire area and yet can't do simply things like switch weapons at a reasonable speed, throw a punch, power scaling (as opposed to power creep or power "sprint"), or have each frame move a little differently than the others 

Each Warframe is unique and has it's own passive, powers, and uses, but they all suffer from simple issues like energy regen that are only fixed with band-aid elements such as energy pads which shouldn't be a mandatory thing, but are. Mainly just small QoL issues that can overtime, become really annoying. 

People may disagree, but I think it little touches like this work help. Another example would be the recent (to consoles) addition of a loadout change option on the Solar Map. Small, but excellent additions that really add more than they appear to.