Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

9 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

There is also the point orb damage is mitigated by armor, so more damage split against higher armor and... 'oh hey that tickles.'

 

i would like to add on to this statement:

smite scales off of health+ shields total of the enemy initially hit by the power, so when you start hitting enemies that have a lot of armor and no shields you start getting lower returns faster as how you are only taking the health before armor.

so we get: high armor+ lowish health= high af ehp

smite: 35% of the original lowish health pool taken from the high total ehp

Edited May 5, 2017 by (PS4)TwilightGrim

[Nox_Terminus]

11 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

There is also the point orb damage is mitigated by armor, so more damage split against higher armor and... 'oh hey that tickles.'

It is still a VAST improvement over 2.3 though. I would like a component where Smite causes the initial target to draw aggro which would help crowd control situations... but I don't see it or any of these other changes unless steve picks his sunday stream back up picks up oberon and 'what is this? Why?' except in low level content Oberon is kinda nuts.

The thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that Oberon's 1 was solid to begin with, the initial target is knocked down and hit with a confusion proc (i.e. substitute radiation proc so it doesn't make using Condition Overload or Healing Return 'easy'). Enemies surround the target usually turn their attention to it.

My response was just to clear up the fact that the scaling is not all its cracked up to be, and in low level content there are few frames who arent 'kinda nuts'. Oberon just happens to have an effective multi-target 1.

My main concern with the energy increase on Oberon is that it's acting like a red herring which is pulling attention away from his kit being ineffective, and instead focusing it on 'oh he's tankier now that should be fine'. His kit still needs tweaking, at the moment all he can do now is 'be somewhat tanky', which is a niche already filled by a large group of warframes, some of which have superior healing, and/or damaging abilities, with a much much lower energy investment. Many of the people who think he is fine see any talk about buffing or tweaking his skills or criticizing how poor he fits into any squad to be nothing more than 'whiners', and that by itself is deplorable. Oberon does not offer anything which isn't already filled by another frame, and even if you go with the 'jack of all trades' argument, his heal is the only thing he does currently competently. His 4 is all but useless due to the range, ineffectual armor reduction, and the fact that you're going to be using most of your energy on maintaining renewal and/or hallowed ground.

The energy capacity increase did one thing. He can tank better. Nothing else.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Nox_Terminus

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

2 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

The thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that Oberon's 1 was solid to begin with, the initial target is knocked down and hit with a confusion proc (i.e. substitute radiation proc so it doesn't make using Condition Overload or Healing Return 'easy'). Enemies surround the target usually turn their attention to it.

My response was just to clear up the fact that the scaling is not all its cracked up to be, and in low level content there are few frames who arent 'kinda nuts'. Oberon just happens to have an effective multi-target 1.

My main concern with the energy increase on Oberon is that it's acting like a red herring which is pulling attention away from his kit being ineffective, and instead focusing it on 'oh he's tankier now that should be fine'. His kit still needs tweaking, at the moment all he can do now is 'be somewhat tanky', which is a niche already filled by a large group of warframes, some of which have superior healing, and/or damaging abilities, with a much much lower energy investment. Many of the people who think he is fine see any talk or about buffing or tweaking his skills or criticizing how poor he fits into any squad to be nothing more than 'whiners', and that by itself is deplorable. Oberon does not offer anything which isn't already filled by another frame, and even if you go with the 'jack of all trades' argument, his heal is the only thing he does currently competently. His 4 is all but useless due to the range, ineffectual armor reduction, and the fact that you're going to be using most of your energy on maintaining renewal and/or hallowed ground.

The energy capacity increase did one thing. He can tank better. Nothing else.

i have an oberon build that i am using atm (pre rework)

it has 200 power strength

smite stops killing after lvl 25 in one shot

Edited May 5, 2017 by (PS4)TwilightGrim

[-Defeater-]

55 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

If you're a support, healing and buffing is your job. However, babysitting is not your job. If a squadmate needs healing or buffs, it's their job to know that Oberon's support moves have a set range, and it's their job to go find the Oberon in order to benefit from his powers. If you're in the right spot (which in Bro's case is usually close to the most relevant objective) and using your powers as needed, your job is done.

ok but the thing is, if someone wants the healing, chances are we are going to be far enough from other people who already have it. this means removing it from someone else in order to give it to them. instead of a game of group up it then becomes an equally anoying game of people trying to get me to take heals off other people for them. oberon isnt a reactive healer, hes not trin. the point of it is to set it and forget it, and i know he got an energy buff, but if youre hovering below 200 energy anyways who cares if you have more max energy. if youre in survival, the relative objective is literally everywhere. if he only works on defense then why bother. 

[Nox_Terminus]

Just now, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

i have an oberon build that i am using atm (pre rework)

it has 200 power strength

it stops killing after lvl 25 in one shot

Yes, and that was normal. The main purpose of smite is to CC heavy enemies and use them as distractions, as their allies will begin shooting them. Its especially effective against ancients because their buffs are turned off as they are considered enemies to their allies, if only for a short period.

The current patch solved one of the consequences of the rework, which was heavy power consumption, but it did not address the root cause, nor did it improve the synergy between his various skills.

[SenorClipClop]

1 minute ago, -Defeater- said:

it then becomes an equally anoying game of people trying to get me to take heals off other people for them

But again, that's not your job. You do you. You enjoy the game, and if players need heals they come to you. If they don't want to, they'll have to deal with low health or they'll have to bring their own form of healing. A support is a comrade, not a servant.

[-Defeater-]

1 hour ago, PsiWarp said:

If you just want to heal them, make sure they're at least in Affinity Range before casting Renewal. Iron Renewal gives armor too, which while nice to have, isn't necessary every cast if healing is the goal.

It's a matter of your teammates learning/knowing how Oberon works, and whether they want to take advantage of the armor bonus or not.

Not sure what they meant with that fix, I will need to do some tests!

affinity range is 50m, meaning id have to throw on overextend and gimp my healing if i want to do that. base is 25 meters, and even if it was base 50 meters, it would still be a game of trying to get people in the same tile over and over. it only works for trin cause her buff on other team mates doesnt go away when recast

 

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, Nox_Terminus said:

 especially effective against ancients because their buffs are turned off 

this is all i realistically use it for, as well as on eximus enemies

1 minute ago, Nox_Terminus said:

 

The current patch solved one of the consequences of the rework, which was heavy power consumption, but it did not address the root cause, nor did it improve the synergy between his various skills.

didnt they say they fixed eff not effecting renewal?

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

srry nvm on the eff fix, it was just a display fix

[-Defeater-]

8 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

But again, that's not your job. You do you. You enjoy the game, and if players need heals they come to you. If they don't want to, they'll have to deal with low health or they'll have to bring their own form of healing. A support is a comrade, not a servant.

in that sentence im saying if i played your way and recast when people asked for it. no one is just gonna run around me waiting for my energy to run out, they would type in chat if they wanted healing that badly, which unless they are really struggling they wont, in which case why even play a healer. no one should have to ask me to heal them, i should be able to keep health regen on everyone without asking them all to group up because oberon is a preventative healer, not a reactive only like trin. it breaks up the flow of things and is super clunky. i dont see oberon as a tank, if im going to play him it woukd be to help everyone, not just me or one person when asked

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by -Defeater-

[SenorClipClop]

20 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Point of order here? While you do raise great points, the thing is those orbbs spread the damage out and not every orb latches onto the same target. So while yes the flat damage does go up you still have an issue over orb behavior and 'theoretical damage' vs 'actual damage.'

Damage remains the same. Its a matter of these (very powerful) random elements not always going specifically where the players want them to go. That seems fair to me; if that insane amount of damage could be directed to only desired targets, Oberon would turn into a spambot of "Strip armor with a status weapon or an augmented squadmate --> press 1 three times".

.... what if Oberon isn't meant to be a damage nuke?

[-Defeater-]

2 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by -Defeater-

[Nox_Terminus]

Just now, MarrikBroom said:

You mean forced dependence right?

Indeed

 

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

3 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Electromagnetic_Shielding

Possibly somewhat useful now with a Rage+Power Strength build?

how does the mod measure damage when two sets of armor come into play?

i feel that it is just a bit too risky for sortie things but lowers your a god

[Nox_Terminus]

2 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Electromagnetic_Shielding

Possibly somewhat useful now with a Rage+Power Strength build?

At higher levels Renewal isn't going to save you. Building for Rage & Quick Thinking only serve to take away potential from his actual skills, you end up building just to solo tank instead of being able to actually DO something with your skills. Granted his kit is still ineffectual outside of just 'tanking' atm so I suppose that is a valid build.

Prior to rework I had fun using his entire kit, even if I wasn't killing most of the enemies I hit, it was at least fun. Now to get anything done I have to build for a 'synergy' I didn't ask for, and only so I can 'sort of' tank. If I wanted to just be a tank with HP regen, Id just play Nidus more, or Inaros, or Nekros. Oberon should be a viable alternative to Trinity, not just a 'I guess that sort of works' warframe.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

has anyone tried a 4 oberon renewal focus team yet?

this is honestly the only thing i can think that i would wanna do after the rework.... get that 500 hp regen lol

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, MarrikBroom said:

Stack it with corrupted buffs.

over 9000!?!?!?!

[Nox_Terminus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

has anyone tried a 4 oberon renewal focus team yet?

this is honestly the only thing i can think that i would wanna do after the rework.... get that 500 hp regen lol

Renewal HP/s doesnt stack. The armor bonus does.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, Nox_Terminus said:

Renewal HP/s doesnt stack. The armor bonus does.

booo on the hp not stacking

[SenorClipClop]

3 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

in that sentence im saying if i played your way and recast when people asked for it. no one is just gonna run around me waiting for my energy to run out, they would type in chat if they wanted healing that badly, which unless they are really struggling they wont, in which case why even play a healer. no one should have to ask me to heal them, i should be able to keep health regen on everyone without asking them all to group up because oberon is a preventative healer, not a reactive only like trin. it breaks up the flow of things and is super clunky. i dont see oberon as a tank, if im going to play him it woukd be to help everyone, not just me when asked

I don't think we're understanding each other entirely well.

When I play Oberon, I am always aware of when squadmates need healing and I happily provide it. I hunker down on Hallowed Ground in a tactically relevant spot (near an objective or chokepoint) and turn on Renewal. I don't go hunting down the other Tenno. If they need healing, they'll come to the big green glowing circle. If someone is low on health I'll have 3 on, and if they go down, the squad has lots of time to revive them (the bleedout perk has infinite range). I never really play into Iron Renewal for others unless we're pushed back to the point of all standing on the patch defensively (which mages should be doing anyway to prevent those Slash and Toxin procs), or unless I notice players just chilling there. I don't really know what "preventative healer" means. How can you heal by healing before the damage is taken? To me, Oberon's heal provides sustain - the ability to keep players alive for extended periods of time despite continual opposition. And if they need it, they come to me.

[Nox_Terminus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

booo on the hp not stacking

If it did stack that would be inherently broken.

Just now, MarrikBroom said:

So anyone have any idea how to just kinda have 'fun' with Oberon? I can't talk for anyone else but this whole experiance is leaving me really bitter.

Build for range, and about 155% power strength, and then make yourself believe you get 60% DR on his 2, and his 4 strips armor vs current armor. Enjoy.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Nox_Terminus

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, Nox_Terminus said:

If it did stack that would be inherently broken.

i see no problem if the effort was put into it

 

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

1 minute ago, MarrikBroom said:

So anyone have any idea how to just kinda have 'fun' with Oberon? I can't talk for anyone else but this whole experiance is leaving me really bitter.

same ........ this whole thing kinda made me put warframe down a little. not saying i wont go on the forums to voice my my issues with its current state

im trying to think of things atm

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, MarrikBroom said:

 

go look at the pretty pink rhinos at the relay.

i may need to

face tank everything and not care: bless trin, renewal oberon, nidus and hmmmm...... an octavia to do all the work

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

continuing on, forget your 4th and grab a corrosive pox or torid and spam your 1 on everything