Founder's thoughts on umbra?

[Echo]

2 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

They talked about making the western Umbra frames tied to the focus system so it's not a prime. And of course any new Excalibur upgrade will be stronger than Excal Prime since there's barely any difference between it and the normal Excal in stats. When they made the Excal Prime offer they didn't think the game would survive beyond a few years so they did something stupid and made the Excal prime limited so right now the Excal line is a dead end in progression for new players.

This is actually interesting, do you have a source for this? Was it in a wiki or Devstream?

[Golmihr]

Just now, Vitrescence said:

This is actually interesting, do you have a source for this? Was it in a wiki or Devstream?

The Umbra being tied to the focus system? I think it was the latest dev stream they talked about it. But it could have been from a recap of an earlier episode I watched around the same time.

[Sziklamester]

Just now, Golmihr said:

The Umbra being tied to the focus system? I think it was the latest dev stream they talked about it. But it could have been from a recap of an earlier episode I watched around the same time.

Not sure if they said in any or just hinted it. If they release as side grade then there is no worries to the founders if stronger than the excal prime then they need to buff the excal prime if the umbras a part of the reworked focus system then not really interesting and it can go on that way.

[Echo]

1 minute ago, Sziklamester said:

Not sure if they said in any or just hinted it. If they release as side grade then there is no worries to the founders if stronger than the excal prime then they need to buff the excal prime if the umbras a part of the reworked focus system then not really interesting and it can go on that way.

I do recall the talk about the redoing of the focus system, but they made it seem like it was extremely far off in the future. I agree with what you say, however, Excal would need a buff if this Umbra gets released and it is in a ridiculous spot in terms of stats. To be honest, I hope all Prime Frames are better than Umbra frames. Primes are Primes. They shouldn't be overshadowed by these new frames or any others released. It defeats the purpose of primes in general.

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

I'm not a founder (Could've become one but dumb me chose MMORPGs over WF back then on PC), but i still do think that this whole thing about Excalibur Prime Vs Umbra and the complaints about UMBRA being tougher than the Prime is just ... idiotic?

I am a founder of other games and i know how it feels like having your exclusives copied, reskinned then given to fresh new players for money, but this is different. Why? because Excal Prime is not about being Better than the regular,

Spoiler

(which ofc it should be anyways because Primes should be better in stats than the Regular version, doesn't mean an even better version shouldn't exist though)

it's about being honor and pride, a badge of honor given to you as appreciation for saving the game and for your loyalty- not a VIP card for brags.

It is a Badge, meant to mark you as Special but not Better, reminding you and others of what you've done for this game that all of us are playing right now.

Umbra should be ok to exist as long as it goes well with the lore.

Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)ArnnFrost

[Golmihr]

1 minute ago, Sziklamester said:

Not sure if they said in any or just hinted it. If they release as side grade then there is no worries to the founders if stronger than the excal prime then they need to buff the excal prime if the umbras a part of the reworked focus system then not really interesting and it can go on that way.

I'm guessing the Excal Prime is a touchy subject. It is from a time when Prime frames didn't mean a major upgrade and now it's something new players can't get so they probably don't want to buff it.

As for the Umbra it could make sense for them to create a new frame line that work in conjunction with the focus system as they have been wanting to rewamp it for a while. They did mention it context with the focus system but I can't recall if it was just an idea they were throwing out there. Pretty sure it was the latest dev stream now.

[Echo]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

I'm not a founder (Could've become one but dumb me chose MMORPGs over WF back then on PC), but i still do think that this whole thing about Excalibur Prime Vs Umbra and the complaints about UMBRA being tougher than the Prime is just ... idiotic?

I am a founder of other games and i know how it feels like having your exclusives copied, reskinned then given to fresh new players for money, but this is different. Why? because Excal Prime is not about being Better than the regular, it's about being honor and pride, a badge of honor given to you as appreciation for saving the game and for your loyalty- not a VIP card for brags.

It is a Badge, meant to mark you as Special but not Better, reminding you and others of what you've done for this game that all of us are playing right now.

 

I don't recall anyone saying that having it should make them better. I did state in general that Primes should have better stats and what not because they are Primes. A PRIME version of their counterparts, Therefore the stats should be better than average. That's the point of a Prime Frame.

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

1 minute ago, Vitrescence said:

I don't recall anyone saying that having it should make them better. I did state in general that Primes should have better stats and what not because they are Primes. A PRIME version of their counterparts, Therefore the stats should be better than average. That's the point of a Prime Frame.

Oh sorry, guess my broken English made you misunderstand my point...

i was talking about the Prime vs the Umbra not the regular, ofc Primes should always be better in stats than the regulars but it doesn't mean that an even better version should not exist.

[DxAdder]

two years latter you think people would get the hint, Umbra is NO way any sort of priority to DE and shouldn't be, it's just Excalibur in a different skin.

 

[Echo]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

Oh sorry, guess my broken English made you misunderstand my point...

i was talking about the Prime vs the Umbra not the regular, ofc Primes should always be better in stats than the regulars but it doesn't mean that an even better version should not exist.

Ah, I see. Even then, I am still of  the opinion that a Prime should be that. A Prime. Especially if we wanna keep to the very definition of Prime. Umbra should not be the same as or even better than a Prime, it should be it's own thing. Somewhere between both, or level with a Normal frame. I am saying this because there is some speculation that Umbra Frames are gunna be a thing. If that's the case, they don't need to overshadow Primes. This includes Excalibur Prime.

EDIT:

Honestly, in my opinion, they should have just made Umbra a skin. Just like they have Deluxe skins, just make Umbra skins.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Vitrescence

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

8 minutes ago, Vitrescence said:

Ah, I see. Even then, I am still of  the opinion that a Prime should be that. A Prime. Especially if we wanna keep to the very definition of Prime. Umbra should not be the same as or even better than a Prime, it should be it's own thing. Somewhere between both, or level with a Normal frame. I am saying this because there is some speculation that Umbra Frames are gunna be a thing. If that's the case, they don't need to overshadow Primes. This includes Excalibur Prime.

Well DE said in an old Devstream that they're planning on making them a darker version of the Primes, maybe they'll end up as a Prime upgrading mechanic in the end? like you NEED to have a Prime to make an UMBRA? (CURSE IT MAYBE!? SPACE DEMONS AND SH**) xP

Quote

Salt rain incoming!!!!

Or ... Ya know... a skin? seriously, if DE just released UMBRA as a skin like "eh, screw it" just to kill all these arguments it'll work xD

Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)ArnnFrost

[xXDeadsinxX]

Umbra isn't going to be related to Excalibur prime at all.

[Echo]

Just now, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

Well DE said in an old Devstream that they're planning on making them a darker version of the Primes, maybe they'll end up as a Prime upgrading mechanic in the end? like you NEED to have a Prime for make an UMBRA? xP

Or ... Ya know... a skin? seriously, if DE just released UMBRA as a skin like "eh, screw it" just to kill all these arguments it'll work xD

Well, I don't want to take away the opportunity for people to have Umbra! If they went this route, only founders would have Umbra, and that I don't feel is fair. This also adds the issue of more Prime Warframes, which then devalues Primes in general.

A skin seems to have been the better option in my eyes. You are correct in that.

[Sziklamester]

3 minutes ago, Vitrescence said:

Ah, I see. Even then, I am still of  the opinion that a Prime should be that. A Prime. Especially if we wanna keep to the very definition of Prime. Umbra should not be the same as or even better than a Prime, it should be it's own thing. Somewhere between both, or level with a Normal frame. I am saying this because there is some speculation that Umbra Frames are gunna be a thing. If that's the case, they don't need to overshadow Primes. This includes Excalibur Prime.

If they need money they will make it better for increasing the sales this is only bothers the founders which are in minority compared how many players play the game. Primes not primes for better stats the prime idea created originally here to "thank" the founders their backing every prime after that just made for making money. Of course they are better in stat wise otherwise why you bother to pay for the regular one when there is a better and that can be sold with plat and etc for high price. Lorewise the primes are nothing but a clever business things which implemented well to the game lore. I prefer the regular frames over the primes because these frames mean to me the real frames "lorewise" the primes are symbolize elitism and virtual E-peen titles. They are a tool to make more money which is normal somehow they need to keep their free to play game and after many years they cannot change the game a one buy everything is yours game. Free to play games not work with that logic and these usualy want to make more money than one pay or sub fee games.

For me insignificant how strong the umbras will be because these will be another attempt to make money but business wise I am disagree with them because enough to make the regular frames and their prime variants. This mean 2 front work on and it is far enough because they didn't say it is the point where we stop making frames. They will make as much as many they can and it is a long process to them and afterward they make the primes to make their works more profitable. Introducing a completely new "genre" takes a lot of time and rescources to develop and I hardly think they are able to do when they cannot do a simple buff / stat boost on old items. Simply their team is just a medium size of team separated into minor groups and there need at least twice as much people them to work on normal pace on umbras and whatever they create after.

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

4 minutes ago, Vitrescence said:

Well, I don't want to take away the opportunity for people to have Umbra! If they went this route, only founders would have Umbra, and that I don't feel is fair. This also adds the issue of more Prime Warframes, which then devalues Primes in general.

A skin seems to have been the better option in my eyes. You are correct in that.

We forgot that there are UMBRAs and UMBRAs Primes ... guess it'll be an upgrade kind of thing in the end or a dark skin for regular and prime huh? i bet that'll be the case here (regulars become Umbra, Primes become Umbra Prime?)

Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)ArnnFrost

[----Legacy----]

27 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

Not sure if they said in any or just hinted it. If they release as side grade then there is no worries to the founders if stronger than the excal prime then they need to buff the excal prime if the umbras a part of the reworked focus system then not really interesting and it can go on that way.

If Excalibur prime gets buffed, you can be sure that Umbra won't ne enough to stop the "rerelease excsl prime" threads. I personally think that Umbra should be slightly stronger than prime since it won't have any kind of status attached unlike orokin keyhole face prime

[----Legacy----]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

Or ... Ya know... a skin? seriously, if DE just released UMBRA as a skin like "eh, screw it" just to kill all these arguments it'll work xD

And keep us waiting 2 years for a skin? AHHAHAHAHAH you're a funny guy

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

Just now, ----Legacy---- said:

And keep us waiting 2 years for a skin? AHHAHAHAHAH you're a funny guy

Thank you, but you know what would be also funny? this actually happening! xD

[Compassion]

What if Umbra is a transformation to our current frames? So if I had Excalibur, then after completeing the next quest or whatever, I will have the option to switch between Excalibur Umbra or regular Excalibur at my liking. Same goes for primes, if I have an Excalibur Prime, then I have the option to transform it into Umbra Excalibur Prime, and this goes with all warfames primes or not. Thus making everyone happy, the people have their Umbras and the founders will still be special with their Umbra Excalibur prime. 

 

Just a though I'm throwin out there fam.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Saltify

[----Legacy----]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

Thank you, but you know what would be also funny? this actually happening! xD

Honestly, waiting 2 years to see a skin would be a way too lame decision made clearly on order to appease the special snowflake founder's dwindling crew.

All I see from them in this thread is "but muh exclusivity will lose value" even tough they will get to keep their special and unobtainable exclusive museum piece. Just a childish blabber using a mistake made long ago by DE (and recently recognized in a prime time) to try to make a case.

Edited May 4, 2017 by ----Legacy----

[Lanadra]

2 hours ago, (PS4)cdzbrbr said:

Just stop. This god status some of you have been spoiled with is unprecended on ANY game out there. You name it, I dare you, i play mobas, old school mmorpgs, all of it, in none of them founders are as spoiled as some of you are; if you're an adult that's really worrysome.

You or any other founder for that matter do not dictate what can and cannot be released outside of that exclusivity deal. Excal P will still be exclusive to those who bought it and indirectly exclusive to PC. That's an entirely exclusive warframe no matter how you want to recolor that fact. It' also exclusive 6k mrexp. That's what you paid for. That's what you got. Be happy DE is FAR more serious about it than other devs like I said above.

I'm under the impression some of you think there's a neverending debt between DE and you.

Let's ask gallardo owners what they think of the huracan release. Just, please.

This.

2 hours ago, Miro_X said:

Frankly, Excalibur Umbra bothers me in general. I greatly dislike it as a thing - a Chinese prime access exclusive that is coming to regular warframe basically because players who missed out on Excalibur prime wanted an Excalibur "prime".

Source? I don't think DE has ever indicated that Umbra is coming for any such reason.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Artorius-Alter

[Vapya]

Inb4 lock

But IMO excal P should be weaker then umbra. You can't have exclusive and have better stats it is unfair IMO bcuz excal main will feel envy towards founders because they have better stuff. And then you get those why cant we get excal p threads everyone hates. And for unhappy founders i can only say to grow up. You got enough exclusives as it is. 

Sorry for bad English and have a nice day

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

Just now, ----Legacy---- said:

Honestly, waiting 2 years to see a skin would be a way too lame decision made clearly on order to appease the special snowflake founder's dwindling crew.

Can you blame them if they did it though? they said they will need time to make a cinematic quest just to add Umbra to the lore yet people are still ranting and demanding Umbra 0.o 

[Z3GR4M]

Doesn't bother me, I just want to be able to equip Umbra's scarf on my excal prime, that is all, otherwise everyone can have at it for all I care, adding Umbra doesn't in anyway diminish my enjoyment of the game or somehow take something way from me, it just gives those people that did not know of Warframe or missed the begging of it an alternative to excal prime.

[Kanemitsu]

I don't care.