[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?

[SprinKah]

Okay, first of all, I'd just like to say that DE did a great job on the design, the whole A E S T H E T I Cs of the event and the boss battle, one of the more innovative ones we have!

But I do have some feedbacks regarding the Ambulas boss rework. They are a quite UNDERWHELMING.

Don't get me wrong, DE did a great job with the animations and abilities and other assets, kudos to the men and women who worked on the rework.

 

I do realize that my opinion isn't exactly a popular one, I don't know but I think so.

Like I said, despite the fact that the Ambulas got these really cool new reworks, personally I don't think its performance really meets with its new imposing design.

 

Hell...it's probably weaker than the Bursas, with their indestructible front shieldings, fast movements and slam spams. Especially the Isolator Bursa with its quite powerful laser shotgun at close range.

 

Now I know the whole,..invincible phase thing isn't exactly smiled upon by the community, but I don't know, I'd just really want them to shine more and be something more than just some flashy punching bag to get a few Animo beacons out of. They should be the focus of the boss battle, should be the ACTUAL THREAT, not the imposing corpus ship in the sky...with that said though, it is pretty cool that DE added that.

 

Suggestions:

- Make them use their abilities more often? Their arsenal is pretty decent to be honest. Something like Bursas with their very reactive radial slams that are quite good at incapacitating opponents. Maybe not TOO spammy but it'd be nice if they use it more to protect itself better.

- Faster maybe? They seem a bit slow, I think more speed would be good for them.

- I think DE should make the Ambulas more powerful and lower the firepower of the Corpus Ship in the sky just to even out, swapping the focus of the battle to the Ambulas because like I said, they're really neat and I'd hate to see them as just some background prop.

 

If you got any other feedback or suggestion to add on how to well...improve Ambulas and the boss battle, that'd be quite cool. I'm not trying to make Ambulas to some crazy, unbeatable enemy, I just want it to be an enemy that pops out more in the battlefield and just simply...be more significant, become more challenging yet reasonable to fight against and well, not a slow moving PINATA to get Animo candies out of or something.

-------------------------

 

Just found out that AMBULAS actually has less health, shield and armor than Bursa

man...why do I even bother...

 

Edited May 13, 2017 by SprinKah

[SprinKah]

Okay, first of all, I'd just like to say that DE did a great job on the design, the whole aesthetics of the event and the boss battle, one of the more innovative ones we have!

But I do have some feedbacks regarding the Ambulas boss rework. They are a quite UNDERWHELMING.

Don't get me wrong, DE did a great job with the animations and abilities and other assets, kudos to the men and women who worked on the rework.

 

I do realize that my opinion isn't exactly a popular one, I don't know but I think so.

Like I said, despite the fact that the Ambulas got these really cool new reworks, personally I don't think its performance really meets with its new imposing design.

 

Hell...it's probably weaker than the Bursas, with their indestructible front shieldings, fast movements and slam spams. Especially the Isolator Bursa with its quite powerful laser shotgun at close range.

 

Now I know the whole,..invincible phase thing isn't exactly smiled upon by the community, but I don't know, I'd just really want them to shine more and be something more than just some flashy punching bag to get a few Animo beacons out of. They should be the focus of the boss battle, should be the ACTUAL THREAT, not the imposing corpus ship in the sky...with that said though, it is pretty cool that DE added that.

 

Suggestions:

- Make them use their abilities more often? Their arsenal is pretty decent to be honest. Something like Bursas with their very reactive radial slams that are quite good at incapacitating opponents. Maybe not TOO spammy but it'd be nice if they use it more to protect itself better.

- Faster maybe? They seem a bit slow, I think more speed would be good for them.

- I think DE should make the Ambulas more powerful and lower the firepower of the Corpus Ship in the sky just to even out, swapping the focus of the battle to the Ambulas because like I said, they're really neat and I'd hate to see them as just some background prop.

 

If you got any other feedback or suggestion to add on how to well...improve Ambulas and the boss battle, that'd be quite cool. I'm not trying to make Ambulas to some crazy, unbeatable enemy, I just want it to be an enemy that pops out more in the battlefield and just simply...be more significant, become more challenging yet reasonable to fight against and well, not a slow moving PINATA to get Animo candies out of or something.

 

[SprinKah]

I'm curious on what you guys think.

Unfortunately...I think the Ambulas doesn't deal as much DPS as the Bursas, and their slam spams...also, their invincible front shieldings...and also, Bursas are very much faster than Ambulas...

Ambulas prevails at the design and other tid bits for sure in my opinion but

 

Despite that, overall, I think Ambulas rework is quite...underwhelming for a boss, doesn't pose a threat AT ALL in the boss battle. you really just gotta look out for the artillery and remech ospreys that screw up your progress. Ambulas...they feel like flashy background pinatas to get a few Animo "candies" out of....a shame really.

[AlphaPHENIX]

Ya, preaty much all the rework did was:

1. a new look
2. more health
3. new moves...that miss 90% of the time

I mean hey, at least you can't one-shot it anymore, there is progress.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

When you look at it,  for example past mr20 and OP load outs, which boss is actually a challenge besides in sorties? none.  The game balance does not rotate on advanced players, and new players are actually busy trying to figure out how to beat a boss.

[Pizzarugi]

7 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Ya, preaty much all the rework did was:

1. a new look
2. more health
3. new moves...that miss 90% of the time

I mean hey, at least you can't one-shot it anymore, there is progress.

They're going to be one hell of a bullet sponge in sorties. Enemy physical/elemental enhancement on top of that? Forget about it.

[SprinKah]

Just now, (PS4)fullblast35 said:

When you look at it,  for example past mr20 and OP load outs, which boss is actually a challenge besides in sorties? none.  The game balance does not rotate on advanced players, and new players are actually busy trying to figure out how to beat a boss.

 

I mean...Bursas ALONE wreak and incapacitate players a lot of the times. Their NULLIFIER bubbles are really effective yes....and their slam spams...real annoying but efficient...

Ambulas aren't like them...their attacks don't really give players any sort of disadvantage and problem if players don't pay attention like the Bursas.

It doesn't slow, it doesn't nullify abilties, it doesn't knock players down as efficiently as Bursas, their shock shells can be easily avoided, etc...Like they're not durable against anything, their shieldings aren't even that durable, easily shot off, after that, even if they're reactivated, they're easily taken down.

[rapt0rman]

9 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

I mean...Bursas ALONE wreak and incapacitate players a lot of the times. Their NULLIFIER bubbles are really effective yes....and their slam spams...real annoying but efficient...

Ambulas aren't like them...their attacks don't really give players any sort of disadvantage and problem if players don't pay attention like the Bursas.

It doesn't slow, it doesn't nullify abilties, it doesn't knock players down as efficiently as Bursas, their shock shells can be easily avoided, etc...Like they're not durable against anything, their shieldings aren't even that durable, easily shot off, after that, even if they're reactivated, they're easily taken down.

To an extent, but in the end, you don't fight 6 bursas in a boss arena. Aside from the singles in dropships during the event, the ambulas have powers in numbers. They could possibly be be buffed some though.

And as said, they can either make bosses with obnoxious immunity phases, or have bosses that will be one shot by higher lvl players.

also... I actually consider some bursa abilities (and off topic but, everything about the juggernaut) to be heavily over-tuned, they would indeed have more place during boss battles the regular gameplay.

[AlphaPHENIX]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

They're going to be one hell of a bullet sponge in sorties. Enemy physical/elemental enhancement on top of that? Forget about it.

Please don't give me flashbacks of the Hyena Pack on Enemy Phiscial Enhancemant. A trully horrfic PTSD inducing nightmare.

[SprinKah]

7 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Please don't give me flashbacks of the Hyena Pack on Enemy Phiscial Enhancemant. A trully horrfic PTSD inducing nightmare.

I like them, a good challenge, pain in the &#! if you aint careful which i think is how bosses should be like.

[SprinKah]

10 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

To an extent, but in the end, you don't fight 6 bursas in a boss arena. Aside from the singles in dropships during the event, the ambulas have powers in numbers. They could possibly be be buffed some though.

And as said, they can either make bosses with obnoxious immunity phases, or have bosses that will be one shot by higher lvl players.

also... I actually consider some bursa abilities (and off topic but, everything about the juggernaut) to be heavily over-tuned, they would indeed have more place during boss battles the regular gameplay.

Man...i dont know about ambulas power in number...sure they have support from other enemies but alone...the highest number that they will spawn at once is TWO... and even then it's easy peesy....again, you spend most of your time trying to survive the artillery and get remech ospreys off their back...it takes like a few secs to down them.

Bursas...Bursas fit the "strength in number" more, ive seen them spawn in 3-4 quantity before.

 

And yes i agree with you, i think ambulas should have some of bursa's abilities or similar, like rocket barrage or nullifier bubble. Or at least give them some sort of support aura like jam abilities or buff allies or something.

Edited May 8, 2017 by SprinKah

[rudman88]

ISnt the new ambulas liek a n upograde of bursa ?

besides the imba shield at front,

the new ambulas can :

1. Make the ground got lightning -> techncially and logically doesnt make sense

2. shoot laser

3. bombard

4. missle

5. stomp

 

it only dont have the shoot small bubble nullify warframe abilities lol xd

[SprinKah]

11 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ISnt the new ambulas liek a n upograde of bursa ?

besides the imba shield at front,

the new ambulas can :

1. Make the ground got lightning -> techncially and logically doesnt make sense

2. shoot laser

3. bombard

4. missle

5. stomp

 

it only dont have the shoot small bubble nullify warframe abilities lol xd

 

 

 

1) Not very effective, the can be easily dodged plus...the dot isn't that good.

2) Man...I know it's no doubt but Tech supras are more effective. Honestly...the lasers from Ambulas aren't even that powerful, they miss frequently and damage is meh.

3) In the boss fight yes, bombard from the CORPUS SHIP can be effective....they ain't from the Ambulas so it's irrelevant honestly.

4) Again, not from AMBULAS

5) Stomps not as reactive as Bursas, Bursas can spam stomps if you get close to it, Ambulas takes like 3 seconds to initate the stomps...and by the thrid stomp it's likely dead. And they do stomps randomly too...

 

Also, their beam attacks:

- Vertical beam, super easy to dodge

- Horizontal beam, the only one that matters but still underwhelming

- Spinning beam, only the third spin actually hits you..

 

Isolator Bursa's laser shotgun is definitely more powerful than all of the Ambulas's arsenal

plus they're fast as hell.

Edited May 8, 2017 by SprinKah

[SprinKah]

25 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ISnt the new ambulas liek a n upograde of bursa ?

besides the imba shield at front,

the new ambulas can :

1. Make the ground got lightning -> techncially and logically doesnt make sense

2. shoot laser

3. bombard

4. missle

5. stomp

 

it only dont have the shoot small bubble nullify warframe abilities lol xd

 

 

And Bursa's stomps, knock us down for a few seconds, like you can't stand up after a few seconds.

whereas Ambulas's stomps don't do that.

Bursa's laser shots also deal HUGE damage over time.

Edited May 8, 2017 by SprinKah

[AlphaPHENIX]

5 hours ago, SprinKah said:

I like them, a good challenge, pain in the &#! if you aint careful which i think is how bosses should be like.

Challenge? Oh Hell no no no no no, that was beyond a challenge, it was annoying. You needed to constantly be in Hysteria just to survive, which was difficult because guess what, one of the Hyenas does magnetic procs. I had to waste at least 30 large energy restores and was only ok in terms of health because I had my Sancti Tigris, my team mates on the other hand...Only one of them also had a Valkyr and we were the only ones capable of getting close enough to the Hyenas to do damage, the other two I had to pick up who knows how many times. Oh and did I mention that I am only telling you what happened on the third try, or that it took 30+ minutes to finish the mission?

It's not that I don't like a challenge, but there are limits.

Edited May 8, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[SprinKah]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

Challenge? Oh Hell no no no no no, that was beyond a challenge, it was annoying. You needed to constantly be in Hysteria just to survive, which was difficult because guess what, one of the Hyenas does magnetic procs. I had to waste at least 30 large enrgy restores and was only ok in terms of health because I had my Sancti Tigris, my team mates on the other hand...Only one of them also had a Valkyr and we were the only ones capable of getting close enough to the Hyenas to do damage, the other two I had to pick up who knows how many times. Oh and did I mention that I am only telling you what happened on the third try, or that it took 30+ minutes to finish the mission?

It's not that I dodn't like a challenge, but there are limits.

 

yeah well...I get that you don't like to move around constantly to survive...you don't like that extent of a challenge...

Personally, I think it's great to be active and such, move around to avoid attacks...just like a good boss battle would be.

I mean, have you seen other games' boss battle like DOOM 3? I don't know, you gotta keep moving all the time to survive and stuff...now that'd be nice.

 

I get it, this game, you need to...FARM...and one-shotting enemies makes farming easier and yes, I do want that sometimes but I HATE the fact that you just come up and fire like what, half a clip and that's it with the boss battle? Hell no...that's boring as all hell.

 

Ambulas boss fight isn't like that and I respect it...but the problem is...the threat isn't the AMBULAS ITSELF...it's the god damn corpus ship up in the sky and it's a god damn shame because they treat AMBULAS like some flashy PINATA for you to get a few Animo beacons out of....they make them SO INSIGNIFICANT.

They don't have that imposing feel like of Razorback, Lephantis or Raptors...why can't they be like Raptors!? Ambulas are easy to kill...at least drop in 3-4 ambulas at once or you know...constantly drop in ambulas like Raptors, that'd make them pop out more in the boss fight...

They just don't perform as well as how they look...a true shame. Probably less effective than Bursas.

[rudman88]

1 hour ago, SprinKah said:

And Bursa's stomps, knock us down for a few seconds, like you can't stand up after a few seconds.

whereas Ambulas's stomps don't do that.

Bursa's laser shots also deal HUGE damage over time.

its stomp knocked you down. is the standard stomp but not as big as jackal one of course.

what you need to remmber is you need to kill 6 of them at 1 time.

i can 1 off ( 1 hit kill ) bursa but not ambulas.

If you combine their hp and dmg is actually quite high

[SprinKah]

1 minute ago, rudman88 said:

its stomp knocked you down. is the standard stomp but not as big as jackal one of course.

what you need to remmber is you need to kill 6 of them at 1 time.

i can 1 off ( 1 hit kill ) bursa but not ambulas.

If you combine their hp and dmg is actually quite high

 

I recommend reading through this new thread of mine with some videos on it showing all the stuff...

No doubt the Ambulas has more health than the Bursas but you gotta take into account that their defenses are worse than Bursas, and they're slow and big unlike Bursas, easier to hit. Their armor platings aren't even that durable, I found that it took roughly the same amount of ammo from a certain gun to take down both....just well...Bursa is a lot more...crutchy to kill with their indestructible front shieldings.

As for damage....from the the little clips in that thread of mine, Bursas were able to incapacitate me faster than Ambulas. If you're careless that is. Ambulas doesn't have a lot of utility abilities to defend itself too...

Plus the fact that Ambulas is an ACTUAL BOSS, whereas Bursas are really just....uncommon enemies that can appear  anywhere Corpus, non stop. 

[AlphaPHENIX]

2 hours ago, SprinKah said:

yeah well...I get that you don't like to move around constantly to survive...you don't like that extent of a challenge...

Personally, I think it's great to be active and such, move around to avoid attacks...just like a good boss battle would be.

I mean, have you seen other games' boss battle like DOOM 3? I don't know, you gotta keep moving all the time to survive and stuff...now that'd be nice.

 

I get it, this game, you need to...FARM...and one-shotting enemies makes farming easier and yes, I do want that sometimes but I HATE the fact that you just come up and fire like what, half a clip and that's it with the boss battle? Hell no...that's boring as all hell.

Where do I even start with this, alright, do you honestly think I was standing still the entire mission, like really? You move around all the time in Warframe as it is, sniper strategies aren't favorred here. Now look, DOOM is one thing, Warframe is another. If I wanted to fight Dark Souls level bosses I would go and play Dark Souls.

And just when did I say anything about one-shots? I agree with you, it would be nice to see more bosses that aren't just slightly buffed normal enemies, but not ones that you need to exploit the game to beat.

2 hours ago, SprinKah said:

They don't have that imposing feel like of Razorback, Lephantis or Raptors...why can't they be like Raptors!? Ambulas are easy to kill...at least drop in 3-4 ambulas at once or you know...constantly drop in ambulas like Raptors, that'd make them pop out more in the boss fight...

Ok first let me correct you on something here, Raptors come at you one by one not constantly and with a full party the enemy spawns two Abulas proxies at you at once. Now back to the Hyenas, tell me from Lephantis, Raptors and Hyenas which ones do you expect to be more difficult on a sortie (leaving out Razorback cause he can't spawn on sorties)? Well let me give you the stats:

At first place with the most hp are Raptors with 2000-3000. At second place the Hyenas with 1825 total FOR EACH HYENA. At third place Lephantis with only 1200. Suprised? Now do you see why that mission was annoying? No? Ok but wait there is more.

Yes the Raptors have more health, but they are also easier to hit and easier to dodge. Now for the Hyenas well not only are you fighting enemies that are faster then you, but they can slow you and stun you, and take all your energy, AND you have to fight all of them at once, almost every other boss in the game comes at you alone or they wait for their buddy to be killed first. Renember we are talking about sortie level with Enemy Phiscal Enhancement which gives them more health, more resistance to damage and more damage, so not only can you barely damage them if you even hit them, but no matter how much you dodge when they hit you, they are gona take at least half of your health and that's if they hit you with a normal attack, not one of their abillities which might even one shot you (depending on your frame).

Yes it felt like a boss fight, an unfair one where you are supposed to loose.

[SprinKah]

2 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Where do I even start with this, alright, do you honestly think I was standing still the entire mission, like really? You move around all the time in Warframe as it is, sniper strategies aren't favorred here. Now look, DOOM is one thing, Warframe is another. If I wanted to fight Dark Souls level bosses I would go and play Dark Souls.

And just when did I say anything about one-shots? I agree with you, it would be nice to see more bosses that aren't just slightly buffed normal enemies, but not ones that you need to exploit the game to beat.

Ok first let me correct you on something here, Raptors come at you one by one not constantly and with a full party the enemy spawns two Abulas proxies at you at once. Now back to the Hyenas, tell me from Lephantis, Raptors and Hyenas which ones do you expect to be more difficult on a sortie (leaving out Razorback cause he can't spawn on sorties)? Well let me give you the stats:

At first place with the most hp are Raptors with 2000-3000. At second place the Hyenas with 1825 total FOR EACH HYENA. At third place Lephantis with only 1200. Suprised? Now do you see why that mission was annoying? No? Ok but wait there is more.

Yes the Raptors have more health, but they are also easier to hit and easier to dodge. Now for the Hyenas well not only are you fighting enemies that are faster then you, but they can slow you and stun you, and take all your energy, AND you have to fight all of them at once, almost every other boss in the game comes at you alone or they wait for their buddy to be killed first. Renember we are talking about sortie level with Enemy Phiscal Enhancement which gives them more health, more resistance to damage and more damage, so not only can you barely damage them if you even hit them, but no matter how much you dodge when they hit you, they are gona take at least half of your health and that's if they hit you with a normal attack, not one of their abillities which might even one shot you (depending on your frame).

Yes it felt like a boss fight, an unfair one where you are supposed to loose.

 

woo...wow, that is a lot to take in...

you made quite a lot of good points mate...

honestly, I don't know if I remember everything I wrote and...well...stood for ish was right but...to correct or well...clarify.

I honestly just want bosses to take a more...head on and top-dog role you know...which Hyena, Lephantis, Razorback and Raptors certainly have.

they're like the imposing big dudes that when you see, you can clearly tell that they are the guys you have to assassinate.

 

That doesnt entirely apply to Ambulas. They look imposing sure....but after (for most cases) a few seconds ( after you disable them )...They're pretty much out of the picture, they pretty stop being the....imposing top dogs and just something that's just...there. I just want the Ambulas to just..get involved or something more you know, independent girls that don't need no CORPUS SHIP to come and be their hero in shining armor (boi). So yes...that's pretty much it I suppose.

I got an idea, I'm just going to tell you because hell I doubt it's gonna be anything but why not let Ambulas have these...like you know....3 down stages like Vor you know? First stage, normal laser attacks, Second stage with stomping and beams and stuff, Third stage...well, all out. It'd make them POSSIBLY better than maybe...Bursas. And well, after all 3 stages are down, you hack it or something. Recovery could be quick to not annoy players too much.

I dunno, just an idea...sounds reasonable enough in my opinion.

 

[AlphaPHENIX]

21 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

I got an idea, I'm just going to tell you because hell I doubt it's gonna be anything but why not let Ambulas have these...like you know....3 down stages like Vor you know? First stage, normal laser attacks, Second stage with stomping and beams and stuff, Third stage...well, all out. It'd make them POSSIBLY better than maybe...Bursas. And well, after all 3 stages are down, you hack it or something. Recovery could be quick to not annoy players too much.

I dunno, just an idea...sounds reasonable enough in my opinion.

Perhaps but given that the boss fight is on a timmer and you need to hack two of them at once, well at least have the timmer increased.

[SprinKah]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

Perhaps but given that the boss fight is on a timmer and you need to hack two of them at once, well at least have the timmer increased.

yeah, timer increase is ok with me...

[Vevis]

My only feedback on this event is the following, i did'nt realise the event had hit, so missed it going live. I got on the following day thought ok bit of catch up to do, only to find that because my clan had completed all the collections needed for stage one, i am totally locked out of doing the event.  So can't farm for any of the new stuff, can't access the boss fight, nothing. 

So i will assume i was not the only person caught out by this. 

[SprinKah]

2 hours ago, Vevis said:

My only feedback on this event is the following, i did'nt realise the event had hit, so missed it going live. I got on the following day thought ok bit of catch up to do, only to find that because my clan had completed all the collections needed for stage one, i am totally locked out of doing the event.  So can't farm for any of the new stuff, can't access the boss fight, nothing. 

So i will assume i was not the only person caught out by this. 

damn...but alright...thanks for the...uh...feesback

[LuckyCharm]

I irradiated a bursa. It killed the ambulas 1v1.  just.. what? Why is this even possible for a boss to be killed by a peon