"Best Score" Scoring Hurting Solo Clans

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

The Ambulas Reborn Operation once again uses the sum of the clan's players best runs to determine the scores for clans, and like every other time this has been done, it is heavily biased against small or solo Ghost clans. For example: right now, to get the gold trophy for my clan, I would have to, by myself, get 240 Animo Beacons in one run. Because I am the only member of my clan, and the event only records best runs, only one of my runs would count. Even just getting to the Hades node for the event takes me 400 beacons instead of 200, because even though I am a solo player, I am a solo player who is running his own clan.

In the past, DE has said they would take solo Ghost clans into account in upcoming events, but this is clearly not the case so far. This has been handicapping small Ghost clans in events for years now, and it is never not upsetting. The tagline that is always used is that the trophies are for "competitive" or "active" clans, but the reality is that small or solo clans need not apply. I have built my dojo up from nothing, reached clan level 8, competed in every event since the PS4 got Warframe, and at one point had completed so many Stratos challenges that they couldn't update my badge because I had more than they had designed, so don't tell me that I'm not active or competitive. I am not the only one out there with the same story either. 

But none of that matters with this kind of clan scoring, because the solo clans, or even small clans, are simply unable to rack up any credit for cumulative effort. No matter how much we take part in the event, or how many times we are willing to run the mission, only one run counts, and one run isn't going to be enough. It's just depressing looking at the scoring for an event and basically seeing a sign that says "this is not for you."

[TheScytale]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)KinslayersDawn said:

The Ambulas Reborn Operation once again uses the sum of the clan's players best runs to determine the scores for clans

I'm not sure it does. It's the sum of all anime bacons animo beacons gathered by all clan members.

[Phatose]

1 minute ago, TheScytale said:

I'm not sure it does. It's the sum of all anime bacons animo beacons gathered by all clan members.

Not for the trophies.  That's sum of all player's single best run.

[KirukaChan]

As long as they don't gate real content (weapons, mods etc.) behind best scores, I couldn't care less.

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

2 hours ago, KirukaChan said:

As long as they don't gate real content (weapons, mods etc.) behind best scores, I couldn't care less.

I understand, and am VERY happy about that. They also did a lot off things right with this latest event, like letting you buy what you want from it. Still though, that trophy and the endo means a lot to some people. 

[DSpite]

4 hours ago, (PS4)KinslayersDawn said:

I understand, and am VERY happy about that. They also did a lot off things right with this latest event, like letting you buy what you want from it. Still though, that trophy and the endo means a lot to some people. 

If you are the only member in your clan, you are not a clan. You are - like me - using "clan mechanics" to do research and glue furniture to the ceiling of the dojo to see if you can jump on it later.

That is the reality here. This event was aimed at "clans" and you are not the target demographic.

If you somehow managed to get "gold" status in an event when a clan of 100 people had been unable to manage it, then the rules for the rewards are broken to start with.

EDIT:

For the record, I soloed 820/400 (I think I had >1000 but I helped a mate get the Gun) of the things and it gave me a statue. Didn't even know there was a statue involved. I just kept running cause I was bored at the time.

I'm VERY disappointed in the statue however, as no matter how hard I try, it won't stick to the ceiling.

Edited May 17, 2017 by DSpite

[Arkvold]

I can't speak for other events, but Ambulas Reborn was very generous to small clans.

A clan of just 4 members (just enough to fill a team) only needed to get 60 beacons from one mission to get the gold trophy.  60x4 = 240.  If two members go to 80 instead of 60, then the remaining two people only need to go to 40 to get the gold. (80x2)+(40x2)=160+80=240.

These is all very achievable numbers.

My own clan is a grand total of six members; a typical Ghost Clan.  Two of our members rarely even play, and the biggest challenge was herding cats enough to get the other three into one team.

I have to agree with DSpite here.  If you're in a 'solo clan' then you're not really a Ghost Clan - you're a solo player abusing clan mechanics for your own benefit.  You aren't meant to be able to get the gold trophy by yourself.  The fact that all the other rewards aren't barred to you should be reward enough.

A solo player can easily grind the 400 beacons for a Ghost Clan's access to the Hades node.  I personally ground out about 400 beacons over the course of the event by myself.  Each Ambulas drops about 5 beacons - you just need to kill 80 of them.  They can spawn upwards of three times on the Minthe mobile defense node (4 if you're lucky, 2 if you're not), and they can appear once every couple waves on any Corpus defense mission on the right tileset, like Outer Terminus, maybe even once a wave if you're willing to stall out the spawns.

None of the goals that matter are unachievable for a soloist.  If you want the benefits of having a 'solo clan' then you've gotta be prepared to pay the price for it too.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Arkvold

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

23 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

Ambulas Reborn was very generous to small clans.

A clan of just 4 members (just enough to fill a team) only needed to get 60 beacons from one mission to get the gold trophy.  60x4 = 240.  If two members go to 80 instead of 60, then the remaining two people only need to go to 40 to get the gold. (80x2)+(40x2)=160+80=240.

...

I have to agree with DSpite here.  If you're in a 'solo clan' then you're not really a Ghost Clan - you're a solo player abusing clan mechanics for your own benefit.  You aren't meant to be able to get the gold trophy by yourself.  The fact that all the other rewards aren't barred to you should be reward enough.

...

None of the goals that matter are unachievable for a soloist.  If you want the benefits of having a 'solo clan' then you've gotta be prepared to pay the price for it too.

First, the OP isn't talking about a clan of 4, they're talking about a clan of 1.

Despite not being the "target" demographic, that's no real justification. Nor is a solo player "abusing clan mechanics" when they make their own clan--do not forget that actual weapons/frames are locked behind clan enrollment. Trying to say that one should be satisfied with the basics that even large clans can achieve isn't valid either, especially when given from an elitist perspective of "should be enough". That's not helpful nor is it fair. That's demeaning.

And what, pray tell, are "goals that matter", from your perspective? Trophies matter, otherwise why would they be offered? I'm fond of trophies for my tiny clan, and I sympathize with the issues of the OP. Saying that one should be willing to pay the costs for having a solo-clan is rather moot, seeing as they have likely been paying for the research alone and that's payment enough, IMHO.

Edited May 17, 2017 by (XB1)Spaztic Magic

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

42 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

A clan of just 4 members (just enough to fill a team) only needed to get 60 beacons from one mission to get the gold trophy.  60x4 = 240.  If two members go to 80 instead of 60, then the remaining two people only need to go to 40 to get the gold. (80x2)+(40x2)=160+80=240.

These is all very achievable numbers.

This is the other problem with the trophy scoring, it's so ridiculously easy for full/active clans to get gold that it's meaningless. In a full/active ghost clan each member only needs 24 Animo, really? It would actually be more difficult to play the event and NOT end up with the gold trophy. This method of scoring is just comes out bad no matter which way you slice it...

[Arkvold]

41 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Spaztic Magic said:

First, the OP isn't talking about a clan of 4, they're talking about a clan of 1.

Despite not being the "target" demographic, that's no real justification. Nor is a solo player "abusing clan mechanics" when they make their own clan--do not forget that actual weapons/frames are locked behind clan enrollment. Trying to say that one should be satisfied with the basics that even large clans can achieve isn't valid either, especially when given from an elitist perspective of "should be enough". That's not helpful nor is it fair. That's demeaning.

And what, pray tell, are "goals that matter", from your perspective? Trophies matter, otherwise why would they be offered? I'm fond of trophies for my tiny clan, and I sympathize with the issues of the OP. Saying that one should be willing to pay the costs for having a solo-clan is rather moot, seeing as they have likely been paying for the research alone and that's payment enough, IMHO.

The goals that matter are those that actually affect gameplay.  All of the mods offered by this event, and the Supra Vandal itself, were available to soloists as well as clans.  In fact, aside from the clan trophy statue, even all the cosmetic rewards (such as the ambulas noggle, as well as the ambulas reborn symbol and sigil) were available to soloists too.

The only thing that was barred to soloists was something that was meant to require a clan, even a tiny one, composed of other people to get.  That's not being demeaning, that's stating a fact.

As I stated, there was no problems with a tiny clan getting the gold clan trophy in Ambulas Reborn, even one as small as four members.  A ghost clan needed only one full team's worth of members.  That's it.  Hell, you could get by with just three members if you were willing to work just a bit harder.

Fact of the matter is this: If DE wanted solo players to have a clan trophy, then they would've found a way to make that available to soloists as well.  As it stands, if you want a clan trophy, then you should be prepared to either join an actual clan, found an actual clan, or put forward the same work as an actual clan.  If you do the last one instead of whining on the forums, I respect both your fortitude and ability.  If you're a solo player with a clan of just you, you aren't a clan, you're just abusing clan systems - which is fine, no skin off my nose, so long as you're not deluding yourself enough to claim otherwise.

In any other MMO I've played, a soloist with a 'clan' would've had their organization dissolved automatically after a week to thirty days unless they recruited people.  I don't think you realize just how generous DE's really being to you by even allowing solo clans to exist.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

14 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

The goals that matter are those that actually affect gameplay.  All of the mods offered by this event, and the Supra Vandal itself, were available to soloists as well as clans.  In fact, aside from the clan trophy statue, even all the cosmetic rewards (such as the ambulas noggle, as well as the ambulas reborn symbol and sigil) were available to soloists too.

The only thing that was barred to soloists was something that was meant to require a clan, even a tiny one, composed of other people to get.  That's not being demeaning, that's stating a fact.

As I stated, there was no problems with a tiny clan getting the gold clan trophy in Ambulas Reborn, even one as small as four members.  A ghost clan needed only one full team's worth of members.  That's it.  Hell, you could get by with just three members if you were willing to work just a bit harder.

Fact of the matter is this: If DE wanted solo players to have a clan trophy, then they would've found a way to make that available to soloists as well.  As it stands, if you want a clan trophy, then you should be prepared to either join an actual clan, found an actual clan, or put forward the same work as an actual clan.  If you do the last one instead of whining on the forums, I respect both your fortitude and ability.  If you're a solo player with a clan of just you, you aren't a clan, you're just abusing clan systems - which is fine, no skin off my nose, so long as you're not deluding yourself enough to claim otherwise.

In any other MMO I've played, a soloist with a 'clan' would've had their organization dissolved automatically after a week to thirty days unless they recruited people.  I don't think you realize just how generous DE's really being to you by even allowing solo clans to exist.

I counter that if DE didn't want solo players to be in a clan then they would demand there be more of a pre-process for building a clan that restricts a solo player from biulding one--if we're to run with your logic.

You're missing the entire point: solo clans do exist. They are only a single player, hence solo. It makes perfect sense why a player might run solo in a clan seeing as gear/weapons/frames are locked behind clan enrollment (let's also not forget that depending on the timing, they simply may not have had the chance to recruit viable players). Demanding that a solo player clan meet the expectations of a clan with more than one player enrolled is unfair. A solo player, whether they be in their own clan or not is still a solo player. They aren't suddenly more than one person. They've already taken on the research responsibility of a whole clan onto themself, why should they then be punished further just because they want to participate in an event but don't have the means to compete at the same level? Why deny them the bar set for solo players--since that is exactly what they are? Trying to say that a solo player needs to "suck it up" or get in a "real clan" doesn't work, it's just counter productive. It's more elitist rhetoric along the lines of "git gud". It does little but divide the player-base.

[Arkvold]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Spaztic Magic said:

I counter that if DE didn't want solo players to be in a clan then they would demand there be more of a pre-process for building a clan that restricts a solo player from biulding one--if we're to run with your logic.

Running with your logic, why doesn't DE establish a tier below Ghost clan solely for 'clans' with just one member?  Hell, why not forego the whole 'Clan Dojo' idea entirely and just let everyone build their own dojo, regardless of clan membership?  Make it like the "my room" functionality on games like PSU or PSO2, or the "Secret Lair" functionality on Champions Online.

Just because solo clans exist, and DE allows them to exist (again, being enormously generous by doing that, but given all the mastery locked away behind clan technology, it's understandable), doesn't mean DE has to cater to someone using their systems in ways they weren't meant to be used.  If you feel the need to take the responsibility of being an entire clan by yourself, then you take all the responsibility of being an entire clan by yourself - including meeting whatever requirements are set for you to obtain Clan trophies.

My little Ghost clan is only 3, maybe 4 active members, tops.  I don't complain about other clans, even other Ghost clans, with more active members getting their Hema research done before I do.  They've earned that right by recruiting, organizing, and farming better than I and my Clan have.  And if clans that somehow have less active members manage to get it done before my clan does?  Props to them for busting their chops to do the work.

That's how it should be.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

17 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

Running with your logic, why doesn't DE establish a tier below Ghost clan solely for 'clans' with just one member?  Hell, why not forego the whole 'Clan Dojo' idea entirely and just let everyone build their own dojo, regardless of clan membership?  Make it like the "my room" functionality on games like PSU or PSO2, or the "Secret Lair" functionality on Champions Online.

Just because solo clans exist, and DE allows them to exist (again, being enormously generous by doing that, but given all the mastery locked away behind clan technology, it's understandable), doesn't mean DE has to cater to someone using their systems in ways they weren't meant to be used.  If you feel the need to take the responsibility of being an entire clan by yourself, then you take all the responsibility of being an entire clan by yourself - including meeting whatever requirements are set for you to obtain Clan trophies.

That's a fantastic idea, actually, why not have a rank below Ghost clan, strictly for solo clans? This different level could possibly solve a lot of problems with the event scoring insofar as trophies are concerned.

Still missing the point: they aren't misusing the clan systems just because they are running a solo clan. They are being saddled with unfair parameters for success, however. You can't judge a fish on it's capacity to climb a tree or else it will always fail.

Edited May 17, 2017 by (XB1)Spaztic Magic

[Dummyplug]

Let's point out a baseline that all this is a big bad beta growing amok like a cancerous metastasistic (?) tumorous creature. A beautiful one, for time to time, if you can appreciate it.
It is the firs time that DE puts a different goal for guild members.
Maybe they did not intent to punish solo guilds, but to help guild members in general.
I think the next time they will use OR for the solo and guild goals, so you can get to finish the challenge reaching your solo quote OR reaching guild goal with your guild.
This guys are trying to give us the bets possible game - and grofit the shaith out of it in the meanwhile.

Lets let them do it and give our feedback in a constructive way, and it probably ends just right.

PD: I have a kind of a solo guild, and it was hard to get to the goal at first, then one member joined the hunt end reach it. To the end of the event, trough random ambula encounters, I think I reached guild goal with my solo score.
Is not that bad. Carry on, space tin man.
 

[Arkvold]

17 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Spaztic Magic said:

Still missing the point: they aren't misusing the clan systems just because they are running a solo clan. They are being saddled with unfair parameters for success, however. You can't judge a fish on it's capacity to climb a tree or else it will always fail.

You are the one missing the point.

 

I get together with five people and say, "We're a Ghost Clan."

DE says, "Okay, here's your Clan Dojo - build as you like.  Here's all the requirements for building and researching at the Ghost Clan tier.  Events will be run for clan participation, you now participate in the Ghost Clan tier with Ghost Clan requirements."

We say, "Okay."

 

A soloist goes up and says, "I'm a Ghost Clan."

DE says, "Okay, here's your Clan Dojo - build as you like.  Here's all the requirements for building and researching at the Ghost Clan tier.  Events will be run for clan participation, you now participate in the Ghost Clan tier with Ghost Clan requirements."

The soloist goes, "But that's unfair!  I'm just one person."

DE says, "But you just said you're a Ghost Clan.  Are you not?"

 

There's no unfair comparison going on here.  If you, by yourself, think you can do everything needed to be a Clan, then you should be prepared to do everything needed to be a Clan. From building costs to research costs to the level of participation and effort needed to earn trophies.

If you wanna suggest that DE establish a specific level below Ghost Clan then go ahead and suggest that.  Be my guest.  Hell, I might even support that.  That said, I cannot defend lowering the requirements for Ghost Clans simply because soloists pretending to be Ghost Clans exist.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Arkvold

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

10 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

You are the one missing the point.

I get together with five people and say, "We're a Ghost Clan."

DE says, "Okay, here's your Clan Dojo - build as you like.  Here's all the requirements for building and researching at the Ghost Clan tier.  Events will be run for clan participation, you now participate in the Ghost Clan tier with Ghost Clan requirements."

We say, "Okay."

 

A soloist goes up and says, "I'm a Ghost Clan."

DE says, "Okay, here's your Clan Dojo - build as you like.  Here's all the requirements for building and researching at the Ghost Clan tier.  Events will be run for clan participation, you now participate in the Ghost Clan tier with Ghost Clan requirements."

The soloist goes, "But that's unfair!  I'm just one person."

DE says, "But you just said you're a Ghost Clan.  Are you not?"

 

There's no unfair comparison going on here.  If you, by yourself, think you can do everything needed to be a Clan, then you should be prepared to do everything needed to be a Clan. From building costs to research costs to the level of participation and effort needed to earn trophies.

If you wanna suggest that DE establish a specific level below Ghost Clan then go ahead and suggest that.  Be my guest.  Hell, I might even support that.  But until it exists I cannot defend lowering the requirements for Ghost Clans simply because soloists pretending to be Ghost Clans exist.

Actually, the new tier of clan was your idea in this thread. So props there. I'm fond of that idea, personally. It tells me that you do see the plight of the OP, at least somewhat. No one is demanding you defend anything, by the way. Nor is anyone pretending to be a Ghost clan--they are a Ghost clan, they also happen to be a clan of one person.

I believe that DE didn't anticipate such a problem and the system gaps reflect that oversight. I acknowledge it is all a work in progress and I'm happy for that operative phrase "work in progress".

Addressing your scenarios:

A) You have plenty of people to complete the requirements without having to drive yourself nuts--fantastic! Very excited for you.

B) A solo player can be, in the current system, both solo and a clan. This needs to be acknowledged somehow.

 

[Arkvold]

39 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Spaztic Magic said:

Nor is anyone pretending to be a Ghost clan--they are a Ghost clan, they also happen to be a clan of one person.

If they are a Ghost clan, then they need to accept all the responsibilities and rewards of being a Ghost Clan.  Otherwise,they are indeed pretending - they want the benefits but aren't prepared to take on the requirements and responsibilities.  One person or ten people, a Ghost Clan is a Ghost Clan.  You don't get special treatment just because you're the only person in one.

If the requirements and responsibilities were dynamic based on membership beyond clan tiers, we wouldn't need clan tiers.  But that's not the case.  If you want it to be the case, then I suggest you make a new thread to suggest it, or maybe a new thread to suggest a new clan tier for solo 'clans.'

Until then, asking for DE to lower the requirements and responsibilities a 'solo' Ghost Clan has to endure, just because you barely meet the definition of a Ghost Clan, is insulting to those who either put forward the work to earn their rewards despite being solo, or recruited so that they could put forward the effort as a group.

I'm not mad at solo clans.  I'm mad at people in solo clans asking for preferential treatment, or for the bar to be lowered because of them.  Either join another clan, recruit, or maybe see if DE will make you your own bar, so that those of us who like the challenge where it is can keep it there.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Arkvold

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

1 hour ago, Arkvold said:

If you're a solo player with a clan of just you, you aren't a clan, you're just abusing clan systems - which is fine, no skin off my nose, so long as you're not deluding yourself enough to claim otherwise.

How cute, you think Warframe actually has a meaningful clan system to be abused. Clans are research hubs and arbitrary event multipliers, nothing more. I can call my cat poochie, that doesn't make her a dog; don't get so hung up on a word. Do you really think 24 Animo each from 10 clan members actually deserves of a gold trophy? I sure don't. Doing this event solo isn't doing 10x the work, it's exponentially more tedious and boring than collecting 24 Animo 10 times each!

I didn't set out to be a solo clan, I started Warframe because a friend told me about it and I joined their clan along with several co-workers/friends. Everyone else stopped playing 3 years ago and I've been "easily" building/researching everything myself ever since. Very recently I asked support to make me Warlord, but I have no desire to run a clan. I do invite people I actually know that are interested in trying Warframe into the clan and try to help them get started.

Currently I have 1 semi-active clan member, they are MR5...this was just enough to make getting the gold trophy in this event feasible. It still required playing a defense mission in a less than fun manner. I really don't care about the gold trophy itself, a terra cotta is good enough for me just to have some decoration to commemorate the event; it's the clan Exp I'm unsure about...what might it mean in the future to miss out on it now?

Lots of things can probably be done to make clans into fun/engaging social spaces, but nothing has happened in 4 years. Perhaps DE will come through with adding new exciting clan activities, but If the current event scoring is any indication of what DE considers "making clans great", I wouldn't hold my breath.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

18 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

If they are a Ghost clan, then they need to accept all the responsibilities and rewards of being a Ghost Clan.  Otherwise,they are indeed pretending - they want the benefits but aren't prepared to take on the requirements and responsibilities.  One person or ten people, a Ghost Clan is a Ghost Clan.  You don't get special treatment just because you're the only person in one.

If the requirements and responsibilities were dynamic based on membership beyond clan tiers, we wouldn't need clan tiers.  But that's not the case.  If you want it to be the case, then I suggest you make a new thread to suggest it, or maybe a new thread to suggest a new clan tier for solo 'clans.'

Until then, asking for DE to lower the requirements and responsibilities a 'solo' Ghost Clan has to endure, just because you barely meet the definition of a Ghost Clan, is insulting to those who either put forward the work to earn their rewards despite being solo, or recruited so that they could put forward the effort as a group.

I'm not mad at solo clans.  I'm mad at people in solo clans asking for preferential treatment, or for the bar to be lowered because of them.  Either join another clan, recruit, or maybe see if DE will make you your own bar, so that those of us who like the challenge where it is can keep it there.

In the end, what you're saying is that something needs to change to acknowledge solo clans and give them fair access, which is true.

It's not preferential treatment, it's simply fair access given the situation. As it is, clans with more than one person are getting special treatment by being able to divide up the score requirements, if you want to toss around ideas of preferential treatment.

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

2 hours ago, Arkvold said:

The goals that matter are those that actually affect gameplay.  All of the mods offered by this event, and the Supra Vandal itself, were available to soloists as well as clans.  In fact, aside from the clan trophy statue, even all the cosmetic rewards (such as the ambulas noggle, as well as the ambulas reborn symbol and sigil) were available to soloists too.

The only thing that was barred to soloists was something that was meant to require a clan, even a tiny one, composed of other people to get.  That's not being demeaning, that's stating a fact.

As I stated, there was no problems with a tiny clan getting the gold clan trophy in Ambulas Reborn, even one as small as four members.  A ghost clan needed only one full team's worth of members.  That's it.  Hell, you could get by with just three members if you were willing to work just a bit harder.

Fact of the matter is this: If DE wanted solo players to have a clan trophy, then they would've found a way to make that available to soloists as well.  As it stands, if you want a clan trophy, then you should be prepared to either join an actual clan, found an actual clan, or put forward the same work as an actual clan.  If you do the last one instead of whining on the forums, I respect both your fortitude and ability.  If you're a solo player with a clan of just you, you aren't a clan, you're just abusing clan systems - which is fine, no skin off my nose, so long as you're not deluding yourself enough to claim otherwise.

In any other MMO I've played, a soloist with a 'clan' would've had their organization dissolved automatically after a week to thirty days unless they recruited people.  I don't think you realize just how generous DE's really being to you by even allowing solo clans to exist.

Without getting antagonistic, I would like to humbly say that you are being very offensive. 

1. Who are you to decide what matters to someone else? It matters to me, and others, and if WE didn't think it mattered , they wouldn't have included it. 

2. Please explain to me how you think that 1 player doing the work of an entire group of people is "abusing the system." Because I am the only member of my clan, I have done all the work to build and rebuild my dojo, do all the research for all the weapons, frames, and other items in my clan without any support. I have a rank 8 clan, from my own work.  I have also managed, on my own, to do the work of a whole clan in getting trophies and leaderboard numbers without the help of any other players. I ask you again to tell me how doing levels of work designed for 5 or 10 people, by myself, is somehow "abusing the system."

3. Lastly, if DE didn't want solo clans to exist, or thought they were "abusing the system" on some way, they wouldn't allow the formation and continuation of solo clans. In fact  DE has said repeatedly said that they plan on taking one player Ghost clans into account in the future, so they clearly don't share the same prejudice against small or solo clans that you do. Warframe isn't "any other MMO" or a lot of us wouldn't be here.

Lastly, I don't understand the idea that those Ghost clans who haven't recruited have somehow not been doing their job. If a player is willing to do all the work by themselves without recruiting other players, that is their decision, and completely supported both by the systems of the game and DE commentary. At no point (other than in raids) does DE ever require or insist that players work together.

Edited May 17, 2017 by (PS4)KinslayersDawn
Addition

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

57 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Spaztic Magic said:

In the end, what you're saying is that something needs to change to acknowledge solo clans and give them fair access, which is true.

It's not preferential treatment, it's simply fair access given the situation. As it is, clans with more than one person are getting special treatment by being able to divide up the score requirements, if you want to toss around ideas of preferential treatment.

Thank you for understanding. I'm not talking about preferential treatment. I am talking about equal treatment. Right now it is simply more work for smaller clans, and no way to aquire some of the content.

[Arkvold]

You want to know why I sound offended?  Because I am.  Specifically, because of things like this.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

How cute, you think Warframe actually has a meaningful clan system to be abused

I put together my shabby little clan, got them to work together, and got a gold trophy out of it.  What's it worth in terms of gameplay?  Some clan affinity towards Clan Rank 10 (something that as of yet has no gameplay value), and a gold trophy.  What's it worth in term of personal satisfaction?  A lot.

I get that.  But I went through the effort to earn it.  I had to herd the cats that are my clanmates.  I was prepared to go it alone - to grind out the whole 240 myself if I had to, or give up on the statue entirely if it was beyond my ability.  But my clanmates, bless their hearts, pulled it together and pulled through for me.  And now we can all feel better that we did it, and enjoy the fact that this statue is proof of the comeraderie and teamwork we can put together - assuming I can kick them in the pants enough to get it done.

And now someone wants to come along, claim it's too hard and not fair because they don't have the ability to either recruit or grind it out, and that it should be lowered just because of that.  Y'know what?  That's a slap in the face to everyone who's been willing to put forward the work to earn it.  DE didn't ask anything unreasonable, and from a gameplay standpoint, the statue doesn't matter.  It's a few thousand clan affinity (a stat that, itself, has no value because there's nothing gated behind it, at least not yet) for the first build and a cosmetic item that has no gameplay effect whatsoever.  It's a bragging rights reward entirely.

If DE had locked, say, beacon mods or the Supra Vandal behind the 240-beacon-in-one-mission limit, then yeah, you'd have a legit complaint.  I'd be complaining over it right along with you, because that would be some unfair BS.  I have never, and will never, support exclusive gameplay-affecting content.  It's why I complain about the Pacifist Defect and the Ignis Wraith's distribution to only the top 10% of clans in each clan tier.  That's a weapon, with all the attendant things that go with weapons, like mastery rank and potential tactical uses.

But that didn't happen here.

You are raising a stink over the fact that your 'clan' didn't have the ability to earn a bragging rights reward that currently has no value beyond cosmetic and sentimental.  You're raising a stink over being unable to earn a bragging rights reward when you haven't done anything to deserve the bragging rights.

Funny thought really, that you'd get in up in arms over that if you think Warframe's clan system is meaningless.  Way to slaughter your own point in the first sentence.

Anyway, my point's made.  I'm done here.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Arkvold

[MihariofMabinogi]

Clans kinda exist to have multiple people working together to reach a goal.

 

If you didn't get the statue because you insist on being a one-man clan, that's nobody's fault but your own. It's no wonder why solo clans didn't get it, either. After seeing how rude so many of them been throughout this thread, I wouldn't wanna join their clans either.

Edited May 17, 2017 by MihariofMabinogi

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

8 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

You are raising a stink over the fact that your 'clan' didn't have the ability to earn a bragging rights reward that currently has no value beyond cosmetic and sentimental.  You're raising a stink over being unable to earn a bragging rights reward when you haven't done anything to deserve the bragging rights.

Um no, I did get the gold trophy...it took 2 of us 1.5 hours. I at least agree that there is no point debating you, you clearly didn't even read what I actually wrote and you are superfluous anyway. I'm only posting in case someone from DE reads this and actually cares what their long time/dedicated players thinks.

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

I do not know how I have been rude to anyone. I have made points, and discussed the points other people have made, in as calm a way as possible.

Nor have I made any reference to being unable to complete the challenge, or not making the attempt. Nor have I been biased against this event. I have even pointed out that I think mosy of it was very well handled and designed. I merely said that the system of scoring has a flaw in it.

Though I will continue to argue against the idea that just because a clan doesn't choose to run themselves the same way someone else does, does not make either of them wrong. That's the point of the individual clans - so they can run their business the way they want.

I would like to make a request that people return to a discussion of the issue, rather than attacking each other.