Running Void Fissure Missions feels unrewarding

[ChopperDan]

Hello again,

I'm back for more suggestions on how to tackle one of the many problems the Relic System has, this time focusing more on the feeling of being rewarded when completing any Void Fissure Mission. I will also re-address one issue from my first thread that is more relevant than ever for this subject. Since this post will mostly be based of off my own experiences and feelings (like any other opinion) I just wanted to put out a disclaimer that the topic covered here and its following statements will be highly subjective and may not align with the knowledge of the general public. Now, with that out of the way...

 

The themes that I want to highlight are these:

- Party recruiting with the introduction of new Relics.

- The "satisfaction" factor after finishing a Fissure.

 

Point 1. So, from my previous forum-contribution, I've emphasized the difficulties of party recruitment as a returnee from a month-long (if not longer) break from the game, as you won't be prime-farming for the same things. This wouldn't be a problem if rewards weren't vaulted and if all Relics were farmable at all times, but that is sadly not the case. Now, having played big amounts of Fissures since my rant, I realised my current Vauban Relics were no longer obtainable, but the rewards had instead been moved to a different Relic set. What I'm trying to stress is, the Warframe was still accessible for collection, but through different tools. This is troublesome because the majority of the party recruitment, from my current experiences, are based on Relics, not its rewards. So even though I have a viable key, I can't join because it's not the same version as the rest of the squad members'. Party recruiting is, with another word, "dead". With no instances of the new Relics and a lack of patience for farming these, the solution to catching up with the game becomes playing public, which brings me to my second point.

Point 2. Oftentimes, I, together with three other strangers, bring an Intact Relic each, which totals four, basic math, right? But, we only get to choose one drop. Remember how in the old system, with keysharing, you could get 4x worth of rewards from one key? This isn't possible anymore. This is the "satisfaction" factor that I'm talking about. I find it highly disappointing with regards to Void Keys. Obviously, what I think is satisfying might not be for another individual. This is why this topic is so subjective. But it doesn't change the fact that the Relic System is terribly stock-inefficient, which is also something I've touched upon before. What I'm simply asking is to bestow the Relic-having-players with what they've opened together, meaning a fully-equipped 4-man-party should yield four rewards to each squad member after a successful Fissure run. The amount of Void Traces given out is already bad as it is, we don't need to further this inadequacy. By getting more ducat-fodder (or if lucky, a part not in my possession), I will at least feel more time-/stock-efficient than having run Fissures multiple times on my own. This should be the minimum compensation for not creating an Orokin Sabotage equivalent for Fissures, which should have if it existed, given additional rewards from the Relic drop table through caches.

Alternative solution(s). For Point 1, playing public hardly seems like a solution for effective prime-gear grinding. What does effective mean? In this thread, I use it mostly to describe the time (recruiting, mission-time etc) spent to get new prime parts, where very effective refers to little time-requirement. I personally believe the Relic System needs an overhaul for it to become a valid replacement for the Void keys. Instead of having different tiers of Fissures, I think the Eras themselves should represent a tier each. Make the tier determine the Relics rarity; Lith relics being intact, Meso being exceptional, Neo flawless and Axi radiant, with Lith having only common prime parts in its drop table, Meso both common and uncommon, Neo uncommon and rare and Axi the same but with a higher chance for rare. By dumping all the common pieces onto Lith, we make space for other parts on rarer Relics, which otherwise would have to be duplicated so that each Relic has a representative in each tier. This change will make party recruitment cater more towards the higher tiers, since common parts can be obtained much easier through public play. It effectively reduces the amount of party variations that can be made and therefore increases the probability that one will be formed. With a squad, you are more likely to get what you want, which contributes to your satisfaction. Tell me what you think.

Suggestion for chances to attain common (C), uncommon (U) or a rare (R) Prime part per relic:

Lith: Tier 1, 5 common pieces, 100% C

Meso: Tier 2, 3 common | 2 uncommon pieces, 80% C, 20% U

Neo: Tier 3, 3 uncommon | 2 rare pieces, 90% U, 10% R

Axi: Tier 4, 2 uncommon | 3 rare pieces, 70% U, 30% R

[GrayArchon]

I really like the current relic system and see little need for it to change. Your first point is true in that when relics get vaulted, the non-vaulted drops from that relic get rotated onto different relics, but I'm sure if you joined a vauban prime chassis farming group through recruitment chat and explained that your relic, though different, still dropped the vauban prime chassis, they'd understand.

I don't think you should be able to get more than one reward if you only put in one relic. The current system seems quite fair to me and to make the change you discuss, to give the squad all four rewards, would lead to ducat inflation. Relics aren't hard to get for enfranchised players and fissure missions aren't hard to run.

I don't see how getting groups together for prime farming is difficult. I only use the recruiting chat , and I got the entire Banshee Prime Access within a week of it being released (before the chat filters, which I assume make this process much faster).

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Point 2 : While key gave out 4x time the rewards, you usually had to wait until wave 20/20 minutes in order to actually get a mediocre chance to receive what you came for.
Other more singular key mission ( Exterminate, mobile def blah,blah you get the idea ) had the same rate of rewards as our current relic system, however with this one, you have a better chance of getting what you want in any type of random mission by simply upgrading your relic.

It's also to be noted that you're not forced into a type of mission that you despise, time is your ally.
Never was a big fan of T4 interception? Fear not, you can get the same reward in an exterminate or a survival at a much better rate.

So basically, with our current system in a survival mission you could very well get a top tier item after 5 minutes, while the old system pushed you into grinding 20-40 minutes to get a Forma on the most important round.
The ability to choose the reward and enable a better chance of getting what you want is what makes the Relic system much better in my opinion.

Edited May 25, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[DSpite]

I'm sorry, but the OP post seems to be centering on "I just want more stuff more of the time".

DE made it easier to get parts we want, and balanced that on how we get keys.

I avoided the old Void like the plague, and then with this system, refined a bunch of keys and got 5 Frames in a week that I was missing. It is confusing on where to get what specific type of keys without being handed a map by a Wiki, but such is life.

Missing a weapon or Frame is not "game breaking", it's a game of collecting most of the time, and having the non-Prime version of that same thing does not stop you playing every part of the game.

 

[ChopperDan]

16 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

I don't see how getting groups together for prime farming is difficult. I only use the recruiting chat , and I got the entire Banshee Prime Access within a week of it being released (before the chat filters, which I assume make this process much faster).

I believe I've touched upon this subject before. I understand it is easier to get the most recent gear since this is what the majority is grinding for, but as a returnee you will have other things to catch up to than just the Prime Access. But yes, it's very possible to convince your squad members you have a valid relic for the target drop by linking to it in the chat, the other alternative being to farm the new Relic rotation with the old drops, an activity I do not have the patience for.

16 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

to make the change you discuss, to give the squad all four rewards, would lead to ducat inflation.

I was thinking about this too when considering potential cons with granting the players all drops. One simple countermeasure would be to reduce the amount of recieved ducats when traded in through the kiosk. This way, if there is more than one part that you do not have in a Fissure run, it will still become your possession. I realize this sounds greedy,

15 hours ago, DSpite said:

I'm sorry, but the OP post seems to be centering on "I just want more stuff more of the time".

but is it not human nature to crave for more? Whether this trait is a good or a bad thing is a topic that should be discussed elsewhere, along with the consequences of having parts piling up if said change becomes reality, keeping in mind not to get sidetracked too much.

In general, I feel like my intentions have been misconcieved. It is not to bring the old Void key system back. I'm simply comparing two entities to see if there are features in Relics that could be altered for the better (or the worse), as we do with all things we care about. Perhaps my reluctance to farm new sets of Relics is the biggest obstacle to getting the newest gear, perhaps it is the system in which this is played through. It is all a matter of perspective. I will attempt grinding for the more recent Prime parts, to see if I can get additional insight on this matter, taking a different approach from the usual "catching up as a returnee".

Edited May 26, 2017 by ChopperDan
Grammatical errors

[S0VEREIGNSK]

I find this relic system is the most rewarding, 35 mins survival game i got Vauban Prime Neuroptics, Venka P Gauntlet and Mag Prime Neuroptics yesterday. I got a lot of XP on my melee weapons, i use nekros and get around 10k polymer bundle. Those 3 reward is very rewarding. I know it's not a specific item you want for. But hey that's why DE put trading system, you just sell them with platinum or trade them for set. To be honest this relics is a win win solution even to a new player . My brother already got Nekros and banshee p in just 1 month without platinum, no complaints at all for me

[ChopperDan]

It turns out the public opinion regarding the Relic system is rather positive. Could it be related to my opening sentence? If so, I recall having highlighted the pros with Relics in my past thread. It it is undeniable it has solved many issues its predecessor once dealt with. I may need to clarify that the feedback given here is nitpicking at best. Nevertheless, I felt an urge to voice my opinion and found it most appropriate to post it where it best belongs. Whether DE reads this or not, I do not know. This may all be in vain.

Edited May 26, 2017 by ChopperDan
Variation in language

[GrayArchon]

4 hours ago, ChopperDan said:

I was thinking about this too when considering potential cons with granting the players all drops. One simple countermeasure would be to reduce the amount of recieved ducats when traded in through the kiosk. This way, if there is more than one part that you do not have in a Fissure run, it will still become your possession. I realize this sounds greedy,

This is essentially what I meant by "ducat inflation". The value of the ducats, either nominally or in purchasing power, would have to go down, and this would make it much harder for newer or more casual players to get items from Baro.

1 hour ago, ChopperDan said:

It turns out the public opinion regarding the Relic system is rather positive. Could it be related to my opening sentence? If so, I recall having highlighted the pros with Relics in my past thread. It it is undeniable it has solved many issues its predecessor once dealt with. I may need to clarify that the feedback given here is nitpicking at best. Nevertheless, I felt an urge to voice my opinion and found it most appropriate to post it where it best belongs. Whether DE reads this or not, I do not know. This may all be in vain.

I would say that the response here and elsewhere is largely positive. A lot of us are used to angry "old void was better!!!!!!!" threads full of vitriol, so this is probably why the reactions to your thread might be worded more forcefully. It's good to know that you're not approaching this topic with a hostile attitude, and I'm sure that DE reads and appreciates as much feedback as they can.

[PrivateRiem]

90+% of my relic stash is Vaulted. The chance of running any of those in a full squad is essentially zero, so it's a choice between running a vaulted relic (extra valuable) on its own, and having a relic staying unused forever because it's impossible to get a full party with the same relic Radiant'd for the rare drop.

[ChopperDan]

19 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

The value of the ducats, either nominally or in purchasing power, would have to go down, and this would make it much harder for newer or more casual players to get items from Baro.

This is interesting. I thought we agreed that there would be an excess amount of ducats should there be a change in the way we recieve rewards as discussed above, so to prevent this, the value of said currency would have to be lowered (by decreasing how much the kiosk returns for each rarity, at least this is what I meant) to keep the balance we currently have. The difficulty spike to attain Baro's wares should remain unaffected if his prices stay the same, since new players would still get ducats equivalent to a [insert rarity here] Prime part per Fissure, even though the amount now rests on four pieces instead of one, that is, if they are not new, in which case you'd get a lower number.

However, I do see the platinum value per ducat getting reduced dramatically if point 2 gets taken into consideration, possibly making trades like "1 plat/5 parts" more common than the usual 1 plat/part. I do not take part of this activity as much as I did before, so it would stay somewhat irrelevent to me, but for the ones that are affected, this could pose a problem, having to farm more parts for the same economical profit.

19 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

It's good to know that you're not approaching this topic with a hostile attitude, and I'm sure that DE reads and appreciates as much feedback as they can.

I try to keep it civil. Where you gain confidence from for the second statement is to me unbeknownst. I can only hope you're right.

16 hours ago, PrivateRiem said:

90+% of my relic stash is Vaulted. The chance of running any of those in a full squad is essentially zero, so it's a choice between running a vaulted relic (extra valuable) on its own, and having a relic staying unused forever because it's impossible to get a full party with the same relic Radiant'd for the rare drop.

This in particular I have tried to elevate before and it is part of the reason why returning players, such as myself, can experience intense dissatisfaction with the Relic System. We CANNOT utilize its fullest potential, that is, by playing in pre-made squads, because of the sole fact that human beings sometimes need a break from an activity. Heck, I'd go as far as to call this punishing players who are planning potential comebacks. This became especially apparent yesterday when I tried to assemble a group for Vauban Prime Chassis farm. With Axi A1 being vaulted and Meso V4 being the official Relic for this part, the abscence of the latter in the party menu was enough to discourage my squadmates into leaving the party, despite having clarified that there will be Axi runs involved too. It's impossible to blame them. Their behaviour is justified since the risk of Relic-scamming (previously Key-scamming by not sharing your key) comes back to haunt us in these specific cases where your Relics do not belong to the same era. A simple solution has been hinted towards in the previous sentence; if the new relics belong to the same Era as the vaulted ones, we can completely eliminate the risk for shenanigans, the other being farming the current rotation and abandoning the withdrawed one (this produces mounds of salt if the player had put the time and effort to collect relics for later usage, just to find out a month or two later due to a break that they've been deemed worthless).

Also... I TRY to keep it civil... it doesn't always end up that way. At least, no one was attacked. It's just my passion on display.