Limbo needs a change ASAP

[(PSN)CptCosmic]

you can pick up loot in cataclysm

you are not restricted at all, you can line up your shots into headshots till the stasis projectile limit is reached and stasis breaks, with 3 players this can be done in no time

and finally, you can troll with other frames too, e.g. with frost you can put snow globes in front of players, hilarious if they use weapons with self damage, I guess it is now time to remove snow globe from game, right?

in short, l2p issue :)

[(PSN)HarryMuff]

I miss the simplicity of placing yourself in the rift, and then being able to banish allies/enemies too. All on a timer, just like before. No more accidentally rolling out of it into a laser.

As for the the other two abilities, they are pretty hard to be around and have fun. 

[BloodyEy3]

8 hours ago, frenzy64 said:

Stasis needs to be changed so that allied projectiles don't freeze because of one simple problem that makes it annoying for both the limbo user and the allies: Certain weapons fill up stasis near instantly

I don't know every exact weapon but most beam weapons fill up the 300 projectile limit extremely fast and it ends the stasis which means it needs to be recast over and over again, so not only is it not fun for allies who just want to shoot people but limbo because allies constantly break his stasis. I would say the 2 changes that limbo need are to just allow allied projectiles to move in stasis and for nullifier bubbles to not instantly destroy his cataclysm since most people use range mods to try and capture as many people as possible in the stasis lock, resulting in often not even knowing where the nullifier is.

1. As far as i know contiousbeam and hitscan weapon dont work inside the rift with stasis activa atm, even after deactivating stasis no dmg is dealt by such weapons.

2. That should more or less be the playstyle anyway... since you unfreeze the projectiles of ur teammate and urself and so enable the primary and secondary weapon to kill again.

3. Like srsly ?.you cry about nullifiers destroying ur max range cataclysm instantly.  First: Those are nullifiers,are meant to be the bane of every warframe . Second: noone forces you to go 250% range... you can ADAPT to mission context and factions and not ask for missions and factions to adapt to ur 250% range playstyle so that you have to do even less. Really, really, really unreasonable and horrendously bad argument you bring up. 

4. The exact playstyle you try to make even better is the  reason why limbo is hated atm... since catching whole rooms inside Cataclysm is annoying for ur teammates atm since with stasis on its a huge area where projectiles dont work.

[BloodyEy3]

@dopey_opi what makes you think i didnt read it ?

I somehow believe that i analysed your text well enough.

You start ur comment quite well, state ur question and problem, try to give the whole situation around limbo but then it takes a tunr for the worse.

After the 2nd paragraph you get more and more afilliated with the theme and as such work urself up more and more. you stop giving any facts and just go on  and simply acuse limbo and limbo players.

Even worse you try to make every none limbo player look like a vicitim, which you didnt suceeded at all with. At least for 2/4 your examples giving you totally failed it saying your behavior might as well be the problem regarding the whole limbo problem that exists atm (it mainly is a teamplay problem... noone is willing to do sth for the team and everyone plays for himself, and if that is restricted in some way instead of being polite or comply for that one mission everyone starts ranting/ trolling, which in fact makes the game less enoyable for anyone and might as well promote the limbo to go and troll since he gets accused anyway)

If the last paragraph is not asking DE for justification on what reason they had to give limbo such a bad ability/kit like stasis that ruines the gameplay in general then i dont know, since you are clearly asking DE to state that they were in the wrong and did sth bad.

 

[BloodyEy3]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CptCosmic said:

you can pick up loot in cataclysm

you are not restricted at all, you can line up your shots into headshots till the stasis projectile limit is reached and stasis breaks, with 3 players this can be done in no time

and finally, you can troll with other frames too, e.g. with frost you can put snow globes in front of players, hilarious if they use weapons with self damage, I guess it is now time to remove snow globe from game, right?

in short, l2p issue :)

It does restrict you!

And in ur playstyle even as limbo since cataclysm does everything that banish does twice but twice as good. Binding urself to the area where cataclysm is cast, since only in cataclysm you can pickup loot, that does not work when banished or entering the rift through riftdash protal.

Also while that is true, it relies on the limbo to recast stasis and since you have to recast it every few sec it will evnetually even become really annoying for limbo since he has to spamm press 2 all the time. So if you just leave stasis up you can headshot all you wont but stasis will only break after everyone got 20 lined up headshots since projectile cap takes some tiem to be hit, without those stasis breaking weapons, so you waste ammo and time overkilling an enemy with headshots. atleast this is the problem everyone is arguing about and this problem will always exist in any pub squad. So it restrics/ bounds everyone to the limbo in anticipation of recasting and so freeing those projcetiles you shot up.

It works as you described if you play with frineds on coms.

 

Thats exactly the thing i am trieng to bring across... stasis is not the problem at all... its only a problem together with the 250% range duration build that is used.  The area it affects in combo with cataclysm is huge and makes it frustrating, i blieve noone is crieng about a 10-15m cataclysm that has stasis up, since you can with easy move outside its range and start killing the hordes of enemies.

in short, tweak range and duration of cataclysm and banish, and fix all those issues concerning object interaction (failing hacks upon entering rift, not counting as standing on pads while inside the rift/cataclysm, not being able to interact with the mobile defense thing while cataclysm is around it)

 

[(PSN)horridhal]

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

 And what, why or how are the people who say "dont cry about resonanting quake banshe, saryn, ember, frost" or many other instantly clearing maps of enemies not restrict me in my playstyle

None of the frames you mentioned actively prevent other players from participating the way Limbo does.  You also neglect that nowhere in any of my posts have I commented on any other frame aside from using Nova as an example of a frame that provides the same sort of support as a Limbo without screwing over the other players ability to use their guns at the same time.  Also, Saryn and Frost are not really big issues in terms of room clearing.  Saryn requires spores to be activated, meaning other players have ample time to kill things and Frost is only clearing rooms with Avalanche, which quickly falls off at higher levels and is used for CC while, again, not halting other players DPS or interactions.

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Thats restrictiing me the same way probably even more the then "use melee" part from limbo.

No, it isn't.

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Not every people enjoys high lvl missions.. the only poeple who do are minmaxed veterans who cheese every possible bit out of the game "loki prime" most versatile and probably simple strongest warframe (newst compition octavia) can be used for any content and any playstyle, or rhino prime

I never said "every people enjoys high lvl missions" nor anything even remotely close to it.  I said Limbo is a troll frame due to the way his kit works and my statement is entirely correct.  It has nothing to do with the level of the content as Limbo is able to troll using his abilities as early as Mercury at level 10.  

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

And by the way... how can everyone use Everyone, All and such statements... if all and everyone would think its a problem we would have those limbo changes already happe

I haven't referenced "Everyone" in any of my posts nor claimed that "everyone" has an issue with Limbo.  That said, clearly many people do as evidenced by this thread and interactions I've seen throughout my play time with Limbo in a group.

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

While i do like limbo i try to be as reasonable as possible when talking about this topic...

You would have to actually attempt to see the other side of the argument to claim you were being reasonable and nothing you've posted in this thread has shown you to be a reasonable person.  Every single comment is you claiming everyone else is the issue, not the Frame.  That the only people who dislike the frame are just bad at the game (or whatever other insinuations you are making in your various posts) and simply not on your level.  It's laughable.

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

The part saying "we are such poor beings.. we are left with no other option then intentional troll the limbo back, rant about it on forums, or leave the game" is just simply not needed, not helpful and neither constructiv, so basically its just ranting and crieng out loud.

Things like this, making up statements that haven't actually been said, tie in with my previous commentary to you about you being reasonable.  If that's all you see when you read the various posts talking about problems with the frame, you aren't a reasonable person in regards to this discussion.  

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

So pls  explain to me, why you dont just play with clanmates, friends, or even recruit ur squad if you dont want to spend the time to "communicate with squadmembers"

Because I shouldn't have to and they aren't always on when I am running missions?  Again, the epitome of unreasonable commentary stemming from you.

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Or if u are perfetcly capable of succeeding without "limbo" then go solo? whats the problem ?

I do primarily solo.  That said, I can't get the spawn rate as a solo player that I do in a 4 person squad (if that toggle ever happens where they allow me to do so, though, believe me I'll be done PuGgin for life) and it's amazing how your response to issues with a frame are "Solo so you don't have to deal with it!"  Again, way to be reasonable.

14 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ? I dont see it... atleast not as a big end of the world as some of you state it.

Of course you don't, Mr. Reasonable.  Obviously the people who are complaining are simply terrible at the game and completely at fault for all the issues Limbo causes.  /s

[BloodyEy3]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

None of the frames you mentioned actively prevent other players from participating the way Limbo does.  You also neglect that nowhere in any of my posts have I commented on any other frame aside from using Nova as an example of a frame that provides the same sort of support as a Limbo without screwing over the other players ability to use their guns at the same time.  Also, Saryn and Frost are not really big issues in terms of room clearing.  Saryn requires spores to be activated, meaning other players have ample time to kill things and Frost is only clearing rooms with Avalanche, which quickly falls off at higher levels and is used for CC while, again, not halting other players DPS or interactions.

No, it isn't.

I never said "every people enjoys high lvl missions" nor anything even remotely close to it.  I said Limbo is a troll frame due to the way his kit works and my statement is entirely correct.  It has nothing to do with the level of the content as Limbo is able to troll using his abilities as early as Mercury at level 10.  

I haven't referenced "Everyone" in any of my posts nor claimed that "everyone" has an issue with Limbo.  That said, clearly many people do as evidenced by this thread and interactions I've seen throughout my play time with Limbo in a group.

You would have to actually attempt to see the other side of the argument to claim you were being reasonable and nothing you've posted in this thread has shown you to be a reasonable person.  Every single comment is you claiming everyone else is the issue, not the Frame.  That the only people who dislike the frame are just bad at the game (or whatever other insinuations you are making in your various posts) and simply not on your level.  It's laughable.

Things like this, making up statements that haven't actually been said, tie in with my previous commentary to you about you being reasonable.  If that's all you see when you read the various posts talking about problems with the frame, you aren't a reasonable person in regards to this discussion.  

Because I shouldn't have to and they aren't always on when I am running missions?  Again, the epitome of unreasonable commentary stemming from you.

I do primarily solo.  That said, I can't get the spawn rate as a solo player that I do in a 4 person squad (if that toggle ever happens where they allow me to do so, though, believe me I'll be done PuGgin for life) and it's amazing how your response to issues with a frame are "Solo so you don't have to deal with it!"  Again, way to be reasonable.

Of course you don't, Mr. Reasonable.  Obviously the people who are complaining are simply terrible at the game and completely at fault for all the issues Limbo causes.  /s

Those are examples not even my opinion on said matter at all and i didnt state anywhere that you mentioned any of them specific, if you take ur time reading on limbo or warframes restricting gamestyles you will find many people arugueing about those things, thats why i brought it up

 if i find any teammate or overachieving dps player who needs to be the 75% dmg in a 4 man squad using hundreds of energy plates and spamming his dps combo all over again, then i either comply to that or i just leave, thats totally free to any regards.

Limbo is not a troll frame in all regards, he has the abilities to troll or with missplay on limbos side put the team in a bad spot but that doesnt mean limbo is a troll champ just that he has the capability to be a troll frame. If you play limbo with a reasonable build and take into consideration what effects each ability have, you wont find urself trolling at all.... its just that you cant be as braindead as most other warframes, since most other warframes have simply no interactions with any other warframes or an ability that controll the enmies in a way that is negative for the gamplay (those exist but as they might be seen as negative they dont come with an additional restriction of any way)

So limbo is more vunerable to troll/bad play since you have to use ur brain for once, in a game where most warframes dont require any at all.

I do the see the other side of the argument, havent you read any comment on this thread at all? dont you see any of those ideas i give about stasis being troll and how to fix it ? i literarly gave many differnet solution some affecting considerng a rework for stasis, others having tweaks for cataclysm, so that it is becomes less of a problem. And i dont decline that limbo giving his kit can troll or is frustrating for teammates if you intentional F*** ur team or just happen to not think about the conesequenzes.

Every single? not every single but most are simple ranting without giving any valuable inforamtion and dont even try to come up with a reasonable solution.

you srsly think that the part about people ranting that every non limbo player is a vicitim is an untrue statement ? did u read most of those comments ? probably 1/4 of the comment are about if you see a limbo with stasis up, you leave or use pox/staticor loadout to crash stasis since stasis is just toxic and bad.

You should have to, its a coop game... Any coop game or multiplayer where you are playing with other human being online benifit from communication and meant to work with communication, thats probably the reason why this game has build in coms and you get a chat ingame.

Nah you are ranting about sth that is a problem which stems from the fact that communication or teamplay is not a thíng in this community or game (only if you happen to play with friends or clanmember). And as i explained if you only play the game to farm ressources and get exp which benefit from higher spawnrates why do you even cry about sth like that... if thats ur arguement the main reason for playing for you seems to be the exp or ressource you get, not the game or its mechanics itself.

But i find it quite funny how triggered you got from my comment, as to the point that you feel the need to defend yourself (which you do very poorly as you only state over and over again that i might not be as reasonable as i pointed myself out to be) and given the aspect that the whole point of ur reply  is to mock me. 

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, BloodyEy3 said:

if you take ur time reading on limbo or warframes restricting gamestyles you will find many people arugueing about those things, thats why i brought it up

You brought it up as an obfuscation tactic and an attempt to deflect the issues being talked about on to other frames.  No other frame is able to troll other players the way Limbo is.  Period.  He does it simply as a matter of his kit, too, so it isn't taking any special builds or whatever, in fact you have to specifically build him to not be a troll.

1 hour ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Limbo is not a troll frame in all regards, he has the abilities to troll or with missplay on limbos side put the team in a bad spot but that doesnt mean limbo is a troll champ just that he has the capability to be a troll frame.

No other frame can halt DPS from other players until they decide they want to allow said DPS to go.  Stop pretending otherwise and stop being purposefully obtuse as to the issue being discussed.

1 hour ago, BloodyEy3 said:

So limbo is more vunerable to troll/bad play since you have to use ur brain for once, in a game where most warframes dont require any at all.

And here we go again with another comment that basically amounts to "You suck, I'm smarter and better than you and you are wrong and need to get on my level."  Get over yourself.

1 hour ago, BloodyEy3 said:

I do the see the other side of the argument, havent you read any comment on this thread at all?

Obviously you don't since your entire line of response has been the equivalent of saying "Git gud" or "you just aren't smart enough to use him properly."  Again, you aren't reasonable.  You like the frame and want everyone to ignore the massive issues that crop up when the frame is used.

1 hour ago, BloodyEy3 said:

you srsly think that the part about people ranting that every non limbo player is a vicitim is an untrue statement ?

It is entirely fabricated by you, Mr. Reasonable.  No one in this thread ever stated such a thing.

This entire line of conversation with you is over for me.  It's become the equivalent of talking to a wall that tries to poorly insult me.  Later, tater.

Edited June 14, 2017 by (PS4)horridhal

[(PSN)horridhal]

4 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

the main reason for playing for you seems to be the exp or ressource you get, not the game or its mechanics itself.

Sorry, almost missed this gem.  Actually the main reason I play is for enjoyment of the mechanics.  Limbo can stop said mechanics from working, thus ruining my enjoyment of the game.  Your answer to that?  "Git gud."  

Edited June 14, 2017 by (PS4)horridhal

[dopey_opi]

5 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

@dopey_opi what makes you think i didnt read it ?

I somehow believe that i analysed your text well enough.

You start ur comment quite well, state ur question and problem, try to give the whole situation around limbo but then it takes a tunr for the worse.

After the 2nd paragraph you get more and more afilliated with the theme and as such work urself up more and more. you stop giving any facts and just go on  and simply acuse limbo and limbo players.

Even worse you try to make every none limbo player look like a vicitim, which you didnt suceeded at all with. At least for 2/4 your examples giving you totally failed it saying your behavior might as well be the problem regarding the whole limbo problem that exists atm (it mainly is a teamplay problem... noone is willing to do sth for the team and everyone plays for himself, and if that is restricted in some way instead of being polite or comply for that one mission everyone starts ranting/ trolling, which in fact makes the game less enoyable for anyone and might as well promote the limbo to go and troll since he gets accused anyway)

If the last paragraph is not asking DE for justification on what reason they had to give limbo such a bad ability/kit like stasis that ruines the gameplay in general then i dont know, since you are clearly asking DE to state that they were in the wrong and did sth bad.

 

I am not going to comply with you, or any other Limbo player.  You do not have the right to force me to comply.

Let me repeat that so it sinks in: You do not have the right to force me to comply, period.

A perfect example of the toxicity of Limbo players.  You believe everyone else must comply with your style of play.  Were it just a belief it could be ignored, but you've been given abilities that allow you to enforce this.  That's something other frames don't have.  Sure, other frames may be able to dominate enemies better than others, like Ember, denying the ability to kill but only Limbo is able to actively harass teammates on the scale he does.  Stopping consoles from being hacked sure isn't a consequence of World on Fire.  3 out of 4 Limbo abilities can negatively affect the squad and his passive can too (albeit briefly).  You give examples of frames that can also interfere with play, but these are single abilities and a troll would have to go out of his way to use them.  Limbo can't even help it, use of his abilities almost always does screw the team over.  And you wonder why we want DE to take action about it?  And you wonder why we don't want to play with Limbos?  Why some of us will take weapons so we can at least stop one of his abilities from messing our gameplay up?  Why we leave when he shows up?

Edited June 14, 2017 by dopey_opi

[frenzy64]

10 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

1. As far as i know contiousbeam and hitscan weapon dont work inside the rift with stasis activa atm, even after deactivating stasis no dmg is dealt by such weapons.

2. That should more or less be the playstyle anyway... since you unfreeze the projectiles of ur teammate and urself and so enable the primary and secondary weapon to kill again.

3. Like srsly ?.you cry about nullifiers destroying ur max range cataclysm instantly.  First: Those are nullifiers,are meant to be the bane of every warframe . Second: noone forces you to go 250% range... you can ADAPT to mission context and factions and not ask for missions and factions to adapt to ur 250% range playstyle so that you have to do even less. Really, really, really unreasonable and horrendously bad argument you bring up. 

4. The exact playstyle you try to make even better is the  reason why limbo is hated atm... since catching whole rooms inside Cataclysm is annoying for ur teammates atm since with stasis on its a huge area where projectiles dont work.

All weapons work in stasis and they all help fill up the 300 projectile limit. The sonicor namely can fill it up extremely fast which causes it to end.

The problem with this playstyle is that it's annoying for people who don't want to have to wait for you specifically to let their weapon projectiles kill enemies and with certain weapons it just fills up the stasis extremely quickly which breaks stasis constantly.

And yes, nullifiers instantly destroying limbo's cataclysm is a problem. For frames like frost who have a smaller bubble even with range mods and can actually kill nullifiers before they get in range since they can actually shoot while in the bubble and whose other abilities can damage the nullifier bubble so that pressing 4 still helps to a degree , nullifiers are less of a problem. But for frames limbo who can't do anything to nullifiers with abilities and is squishy unlike frost, dealing with nullifiers becomes a problem. So instead of having it destroy the cataclysm, it should just do the same thing it does the frosts's ice wave impendence augment and only nullify the parts it touches I.E. cataclysm is unnaffected and anyone in the nullifier bubble is unaffected by stasis and cataclysm but can still shoot and damage people in cataclysm even when stasis is active.

Because this playstyle is the only way to effectively play limbo without messing with your own team too much. Limbomb now requires you to hold people in stasis and then use rift surge with the rift torrent augment to do mediocre damage unless you want to use cataclysm and wait for the bubble to gradually shrink down to a decent size to do damage which by then you could have just meleed everyone instead.

Edited June 15, 2017 by frenzy64

[BloodyEy3]

2 minutes ago, frenzy64 said:

All weapons work in stasis and they all help fill up the 300 projectile limit. The sonicor namely can fill it up extremely fast which causes it to end.

The problem with this playstyle is that it's annoying for people who don't want to have to wait for you specifically to let their weapon projectiles kill enemies and with certain weapons it just fills up the stasis extremely quickly which breaks stasis constantly.

And yes, nullifiers instantly destroying limbo's cataclysm is a problem. For frames like frost who have a smaller bubble even with range mods and can actually kill nullifiers before they get in range since they can actually shoot while in the bubble and who's other abilities can damage the nullifier bubble so that pressing 4 still helps to a degree , nullifiers are less of a problem. But for frames limbo who can't do anything to nullifiers with abilities and is squishy unlike frost, dealing with nullifiers becomes a problem. So instead of having it destroy the cataclysm, it should just do the same thing it does the frosts's ice wave impendence augment and only nullifier the parts it touches I.E. it is unnaffected and anyone in the nullifier bubble is unaffected by stasis and cataclysm but can still shoot and damage people in cataclysm even when stasis is active.

Because this playstyle is the only way to effectively play limbo without messing with your own team too much. Limbomb now requires you to hold people in stasis and then use rift surge with the rift torrent augment to do mediocre damage unless you want to use cataclysm and wait for the bubble to gradually shrink down to a decent size to do damage which by then you could have just meleed everyone instead.

did you ever try a - range build with some defensive mods ? it works wonders vs nullifiers... cataclysm has less range so it take more time for them to destroy cataclysm... but you can work around that problem all togehter using rifsturge and banish or even cataclysm riftsurge... 

its not that hard to tap stasis once in a while... why i grasp the situation of both players.. the situation you decribe only exists in a max range max duration build... in any other build this situiation does not exist at all ---> só why is it such a bad idea to tweak cataclysm and bnaish range numbers and stasis duration numbers ? 

Btw Limbo can still stay inside the rift.. as long as the enemies didnt hit lvl 100+ and your weapons are good enough to onehsot such enemiey limbo has still enough orputinity to handle nulfiiers... just gets a bit more methodic...

As an example... rift walk, go into nullfier bubble, oneshot nullifier and rift dash afterwards... as long you you press 3 before the nullifier hits your bubble eveyone that is not engulfed in the nullfier bubble will stay under the effect of the rift and stasis.

And yes the problem is that the most effetive way to play limbo is full range + duration.... that what makes limbo annoying... before limbo rework there was literarly no reason to go range besides cataclysm.... but now every ability benifts from range... so i truely believe the gernarly problem most people have would be fixed upon tweaking those range numbers on banish and cataclysm.. and maybe make it more reasonable to reacast stasis once in a while, since as it function now it does not have any benifits if you would recast stasis

 

[aidan890]

Hey All,

I have hidden some recent comments for failing to remain respectful. I would like to remind everyone here that you will never gain anything by mixing insults into your criticism of other player's ideas. Every piece of criticism or suggestion you write to another player will be just as potent likely more potent, if you make the decision to omit any and all insults. Moving forward in this thread I would like everyone to take a step back and question whether their own post contains extra inflammatory remarks or not. There is no point to including these as they will only garner penalties.

Thanks Tenno,

[DE]Aidan

[Music4Therapy]

Limbo is *excellent* in both solo play and squadplay. The sheer amount of utility in his kit is unmatched, however he pays the price by having stipulations tied to each of his abilities that effect not only him, but his squad. Is this a bad thing? No, it is completely necessary to allow him to thrive in a balanced fashion.

This only becomes an issue when he is in the hands of an unexperienced player and in games in which communication is lacking. Whether or not the game should be balanced around disorganized, public matches with players that don't communicate is an entirely separate issue.

[Batches]

First of all I want to make clear I use beam weapons a majority of the time, NOT melee. I have joined many games with limbos and the only time a limbo (one time, when limbo was being used by an MR23 player) doesn't (literally) stop me from killing enemies is when he has a small range. I see many new players at MR 7-10 using limbo who try to convince me that "Limbo is great" even though this warframe is literally preventing me from getting kills and clearing defense waves faster with my weapons. The only argument I have heard from these MR7-10 players is "to use my melee." I have also read on the wiki that I can roll twice to leave the limbo's ability. I do not wish to adjust to the Limbo's playstyle and at this point I simply leave when I see a Limbo with a range greater than that of the defense console. As I have not found any information regarding the matter, my question is if this warframe's abilities are being reworked, or do I have to keep leaving games because I see a Limbo? I am going to obtain limbo and play it to level 30 rank, so perhaps I will have a better understanding of his abilities, but for the foreseeable future, I will continue to leave games when there is a Limbo.

[Awazx]

On 2017-6-14 at 7:48 AM, (PS4)HarryMuff said:

I miss the simplicity of placing yourself in the rift, and then being able to banish allies/enemies too.

This ^

[TheBlackSpectre]

Hi, after leveling up Limbo a few years ago, it was the last I ever played him. He really did need a rework. Just yesterday I took Limbo out of the armory to try out the new powers and how they worked. Now this is just my initial impression after playing Limbo for only 2 days. 

The #1 and #3 powers... useless. They're confusing to the whole team, and besides, their benefit seems very little if any. In general, I have no plans for ever using the #1 and #3 again. Of course, it might be I don't know how they work completely...?

The #2 and #4 powers... wow. I was really impressed with the rework. It makes Limbo super powerful. In fact, it makes the mission so easy to accomplish that it's a bit boring. I've been able to create a very large Cataclysm and keep it up for an entire wave in defense missions, and Stasis can last just as long. The baddies get stuck and you just go around to the edges and slice and dice. The fact that ranged weapons can't be used in the rift is kind of a cool idea. For such a powerful power that stops all the baddies in their tracks so we can easily kill them, well, it comes with a tradeoff... no ranged weapons. It's a handicap. Makes sense in a way. However, I just ran into a player who couldn't use his Kestrel because it would not return to him in the rift. That's not cool. Now after playing the Cataclysm/Stasis method, I've come to the conclusion that it's way overpowered. Stasis needs a maximum duration of something like 10 seconds. That would require the player to recast Stasis frequently and eliminate some of the problems caused by Stasis staying around forever.  Although it's a cool idea that if you put a computer console in another dimension that it will no longer be able to control anything outside the rift, in practice it's too much of an inconvenience for players... the same goes for ranged weapon fire. There's really no reason they shouldn't work in the rift. If warframes can move around in it and melee attack super fast, there's no reason for ranged weapons not to work. Now, if the rift slowed EVERYTHING down, including warframes... yeah, at least it would be consistent. 

I am very impressed with the creativity of the Limbo rework. There are some really cool ideas there. However, it's really hard to have a warframe with powers that are designed to remove both players and enemies from gameplay somehow benefit gameplay. It's a fundamental problem with Limbo's conception. So, what if we changed his concept?  What if instead of pulling others into a different dimension, Limbo's concept was instead to envelope others in extra-dimensional energy? For example, Cataclysm could give a huge debuff to enemies within the rift energy bubble because they are being bombarded and weakened by extra-dimensional energy destabilizing matter in our dimension. Otherwise, gameplay would be normal. 

Just some thoughts...

 

Update: Yeah, I'm sorry to say Limbo is going back in my armory for a long time... at least until his powers are more of an asset to gameplay and combat rather than a drawback. 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by TheBlackSpectre

[P0Pz]

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 3:44 PM, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey All,

I have hidden some recent comments for failing to remain respectful. I would like to remind everyone here that you will never gain anything by mixing insults into your criticism of other player's ideas. Every piece of criticism or suggestion you write to another player will be just as potent likely more potent, if you make the decision to omit any and all insults. Moving forward in this thread I would like everyone to take a step back and question whether their own post contains extra inflammatory remarks or not. There is no point to including these as they will only garner penalties.

Thanks Tenno,

[DE]Aidan

Question:

As you know, this is a siriouse problem InGame. Is there a possibility that you can pass this to DE officials, to take a look at or are they already aware of this inner fight?

This is a siriouse problem forcing heavy conflicts on both sides!

Please give us a feedback to this as soon you can.

Thanks for your effort beforehand.

[TheBlackSpectre]

On 6/14/2017 at 0:22 PM, dopey_opi said:

I am not going to comply with you, or any other Limbo player.  You do not have the right to force me to comply.

Let me repeat that so it sinks in: You do not have the right to force me to comply, period.

 

Well, there's always two sides. You do not have the right to force Limbos to comply either. So the conflict continues.

The interesting thing to me about this comment is what people seem to think they are being forced to comply with? It speaks to methods or ways of playing the game. Meaning, altering their gameplay in a manner they don't like. There are many ways to play Warframe, but after observing PUG after PUG, I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of players want nothing more than individual weapon combat, melee or ranged. That's it. Otherwise they become bored. It's most apparent on low level PUG missions with high level warframes. Even though everyone could probably just sit around and let the timer run out, most people rush out to kill enemies they don't have to kill. The low level enemies are childsplay for the players to kill. There is no risk to their warframes. And even the credit and xp rewards are very limited. There's really no reason to go around and kill... and yet they do. Anyone who has ever played with a well built Banshee can see it in action. Players stand around, play with emotes like meditation, start complaining that there is nothing to do. They don't really care about the success or failure of the mission, especially if that success means they just stand around doing nothing. The same for a well built Nova. Players complain that you're slowing down the combat. Yes, there is a huge strategic advantage to slowing enemies down, but most players don't really care. The predominant desire of most players in Warframe seems to be combat, more specifically combat with melee or ranged weapons. They like the _activity_ of the fast paced kill, otherwise they're bored and start complaining and creating conflicts. So it stands to reason that any power or game mechanic that prevents or interferes with weapon combat will antagonize a vast majority of players... and that's what's happened with Limbo. 

I'm not saying this huge focus on individual weapon combat is good... only that it is, and therefore is something the DE need to plan for and deal with.      

[(PSN)Radehx]

Double post...sry.

Edited June 22, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx
double post

[(PSN)Radehx]

Limbo is fine! There are 3 parties involved in this whole issue:

1) Limbo players: Most of them just use the same max range/duration setup in all scenarios. They need to stop doing that! The max range/duration setup is godly solo and in pre-made teams, but a disaster in public games or teams with people who don't understand his dynamics. You don't need max range for bloody defensive missions! Stop spamming Cataclysm mindlessly and don't keep it up for long if it negatively impacts your team! Use a different setup for public games...like max strength/duration with little range. Brozime did a decent video showing off the high strength setup.

2) Non-Limbo players: There are 2 types...those who understand Limbo's mechanics, and those who don't. I hated to play with Limbo until I understood his mechanics fully (they aren't straightforward imo). If you know how banish works, you can adapt...if you don't, you'll be utterly lost and pissed off. I get some of the Limbo criticism, but at the same time, some of it is on non-Limbo players who refuse to read up about how he works. A lot of the stuff people complain about becomes trivial once you realise how to adapt. Of course that requires people to either try Limbo or at least watch a few videos about him. 

BOTH the above parties are imo to blame for a lot of the complaints. Limbos need to adapt their setup to circumstances and properly use abilities depending on the situation and team composition...and non-Limbos need to make a bit of an effort and learn how Limbo works better. 

It's totally feasible to play Limbo in a non-trolly way, so I don't put any of the blame on the 3rd party in all this...the Limbo frame and his abilities. I can come up with a ton of other creative ways to troll people with other frames. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx

[Batches]

On 6/22/2017 at 1:16 PM, (PS4)Radehx said:

2) Non-Limbo players: ...If you know how banish works, you can adapt...if you don't, you'll be utterly lost and pissed off. I get some of the Limbo criticism, but at the same time, some of it is on non-Limbo players who refuse to read up about how he works. A lot of the stuff people complain about becomes trivial once you realise how to adapt. Of course that requires people to either try Limbo or at least watch a few videos about him.

 

No person should have to read up on someone else's troll warframe to figure out how they can adjust to it. It is up to the Limbo to use his max range/duration ONLY in a pre-made group. IF that limbo chooses to join a public game and utilize max range/duration, that person should realize people will view limbo as a troll as it completely stops teammate's dps (in defense missions where cataclysm is completely unnecessary, as many other frames can do his job several magnitudes faster). Several other solutions (which would fall on the DE) would be to MR lock limbo to MR15+ (allowing it to only be accessible to more experienced players), force limbo to roll in order to banish other allies (although that would not stop the problem of trolls utilizing the trollframe to do what they do best), force limbo's cataclysm to have a set range which cannot be affected by mods, allow allies (BUT not limbo, as this should be the price limbo pays for using max range/duration cataclysm) to use their weapons inside of cataclysm.

I mention this as I NEVER had to read on other warframes to have them in my group and play with them.

TLDR: Limbo is trollframe, up to DE to fix

Edited June 23, 2017 by Batches

[(PSN)Radehx]

2 hours ago, Batches said:

No person should have to read up on someone else's troll warframe to figure out how they can adjust to it. It is up to the Limbo to use his max range/duration ONLY in a pre-made group. IF that limbo chooses to join a public game and utilize max range/duration, that person should realize people will view limbo as a troll as it completely stops teammate's dps (in defense missions where cataclysm is completely unnecessary, as many other frames can do his job several magnitudes faster). Several other solutions (which would fall on the DE) would be to MR lock limbo to MR15+ (allowing it to only be accessible to more experienced players), force limbo to roll in order to banish other allies (although that would not stop the problem of trolls utilizing the trollframe to do what they do best), force limbo's cataclysm to have a set range which cannot be affected by mods, allow allies (BUT not limbo, as this should be the price limbo pays for using max range/duration cataclysm) to use their weapons inside of cataclysm.

I mention this as I NEVER had to read on other warframes to have them in my group and play with them.

TLDR: Limbo is trollframe, up to DE to fix

If you're not even willing to learn about other frames, you shouldn't be taken seriously with your complaint. There are plenty of mechanics of other frames that can totally mess up others...but if you bother to learn, it happens less often. Same with this. If you can't learn and adapt, you can't be helped. 

Asking DE to dumb it down so you can be lazy isn't a good solution. Neither is removing variety in the game.

Edited June 23, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx

[Batches]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

If you're not even willing to learn about other frames, you shouldn't be taken seriously with your complaint. There are plenty of mechanics of other frames that can totally mess up others...but if you bother to learn, it happens less often. Same with this. If you can't learn and adapt, you can't be helped. 

Asking DE to dumb it down so you can be lazy isn't a good solution. Neither is removing variety in the game.

I learned about Limbo by using the wiki and through in game experience (by playing with other Limbo players). As for the game itself, I played it before it was released on console, so I have played the game longer than you, without a doubt. I am stating that a new player (not that I am a new player) shouldn't be subjected to using outside sources in order to learn what is happening in game, in regards to his teammate's warframes. There is no other frame which literally stops my DPS and from progressing within a mission. No, there are no other mechanics which (literally) ruin the game for me, that is just your opinion and not a fact.

I never asked DE to "dumb it down" but teammates shouldn't have to pay the price because they have a Limbo on their team. Very simply put so you understand it: Limbo should have to pay the price for having those abilities, NOT his team.

In my statement I offered several solutions to this problem, whereas in your statement there is nothing but ridicule which simply impedes this problem from being resolved. Calling it "dumbing it down" only suggests to me that you think a max range/duration Limbo offers some "complex" way of playing the game, but it does NOT. In fact, using max range/duration Limbo is the very essence of playing the game in a lazy and dumb manner.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Batches

[(PSN)Radehx]

21 hours ago, Batches said:

I learned about Limbo by using the wiki and through in game experience (by playing with other Limbo players). As for the game itself, I played it before it was released on console, so I have played the game longer than you, without a doubt. I am stating that a new player (not that I am a new player) shouldn't be subjected to using outside sources in order to learn what is happening in game, in regards to his teammate's warframes. There is no other frame which literally stops my DPS and from progressing within a mission. No, there are no other mechanics which (literally) ruin the game for me, that is just your opinion and not a fact.

I never asked DE to "dumb it down" but teammates shouldn't have to pay the price because they have a Limbo on their team. Very simply put so you understand it: Limbo should have to pay the price for having those abilities, NOT his team.

In my statement I offered several solutions to this problem, whereas in your statement there is nothing but ridicule which simply impedes this problem from being resolved. Calling it "dumbing it down" only suggests to me that you think a max range/duration Limbo offers some "complex" way of playing the game, but it does NOT. In fact, using max range/duration Limbo is the very essence of playing the game in a lazy and dumb manner.

Your solution isn't practical and would basically destroy the frame. I agree with you that Limbo players should adapt their setups to the situation in that you shouldn't always run the max range/duration setup. But you act as if it's impossible to adapt to Limbo...which isn't the case. 

If you get banished, you can exit quickly on your own. No one is forcing you to remain banished. Your "it slows down killing" argument is nonsense because plenty of other frames do that and hurt efficiency. It's not all about efficiency, but also fun. A Slova can slow it down too. A max range low duration Nidus can be super trolly too. Plenty of other frames hurt efficiency. 

If your bullets don't kill stuff instantly due to stasis, that also means they won't damage you. 

So yeah, Limbos should adapt to the situation, but so should you.