Let's kill the Lotus!

[Minion135]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

A kind of Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader becomes Anakin Skywalker again sort of deal?

I think it's more complex than that, given what we know about the Sentients. They were mixes of biological and technological, if the Lotus is any indication (or she could be unique from the rest in that manner).  She could have, in a literal way, deleted Natah from existence when she became the Lotus.

[Minion135]

1 minute ago, SeaUrchins said:

Hey man, that was all SeaUrchins arguing with you. Now I am Bob, your uncle, I love the Lotus.

Are you even serious man? Changing your name doesn't change who you are lol

Read my comment that's above this one on page 5.

[SeaUrchins]

Again, you have a weak argument because your assumptions are based on what she said (somehow you really want to believe a character, who betrayed the Orokin, then betrayed Tenno and then betrayed the rest of sentients). A character like that deserves zero credibility whatsoever. It's like trusting Patches in DS.

Spoiler

Analogy alert!

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by SeaUrchins

[Minion135]

5 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Again, you have a weak argument because your assumptions are based on what she said (somehow you really want to believe a character, who betrayed the Orokin, then betrayed Tenno and then betrayed the rest of sentients). A character like that deserves zero credibility whatsoever. It's like trusting Patches in DS.

My assumptions are based both on what she said and what we KNOW Sentients are, the least of which is they are technological creations. Hard drives can be deleted, you know. :P Also, she never betrayed the Tenno. She has always done everything she could to protect us.

 

EDIT: Not to mention we've seen that even Cephalons can be deleted/overwritten, and those are biological beings turned into sentient AI, so it stands to reason that deletions can happen with the "minds" of Sentients, too.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Minion135

[SeaUrchins]

In other words you can't prove it can happen in sentients or that it actually happened with Natah. The argument is over, the makebelief game has started. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Edited July 10, 2017 by SeaUrchins

[Minion135]

5 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

In other words you can't prove it can happen in sentients or that it actually happened with Natah. The argument is over, the makebelief game has started.

Son, it started with you LONG ago. I'm going off of what we do know about the game, and reality.

 

EDIT: Unless proven otherwise, the Lotus herself IS the proof.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Minion135

[Minion135]

Also, if you want to take about make believe, you're the one who wants to ruthlessly murder her for something there's indication she will do. You want to kill her, essentially, simply because she exists and you feel like it. You're, by no means, a decent person in this regard, unless we're looking at some excruciatingly low standards of what "decent" is, let alone any conception of "good."

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

26 minutes ago, Minion135 said:

Son, it started with you LONG ago. I'm going off of what we do know about the game, and reality.

 

EDIT: Unless proven otherwise, the Lotus herself IS the proof.

The proof was in the Second Dream.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

19 minutes ago, Minion135 said:

Also, if you want to take about make believe, you're the one who wants to ruthlessly murder her for something there's indication she will do. You want to kill her, essentially, simply because she exists and you feel like it. You're, by no means, a decent person in this regard, unless we're looking at some excruciatingly low standards of what "decent" is, let alone any conception of "good."

Money is the root of all evil. I want to kill her to make a better Tenno future for all.

[Aeon94]

49 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Again, you have a weak argument because your assumptions are based on what she said (somehow you really want to believe a character, who betrayed the Orokin, then betrayed Tenno and then betrayed the rest of sentients). A character like that deserves zero credibility whatsoever. It's like trusting Patches in DS.

So how did she betray us ?

What did she do ?

o.o

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

Just now, Aeon94 said:

So how did she betray us ?

What did she do ?

o.o

One betrayal would be not letting us know who and what we are until it was a necessity. She let us think we were some kind of mechanical/biomechanical death machine and not people. People who developed transference and became threats to the big bad Sentients. After killing some sentients, i suspect she may have saved us out of fear for her own brethren.

[Minion135]

16 minutes ago, Ultimate_Vault_Hunter said:

The proof was in the Second Dream.

What proof was that? There was literally 0 indication of Natah existing still. There's only The Lotus.

14 minutes ago, Ultimate_Vault_Hunter said:

Money is the root of all evil. I want to kill her to make a better Tenno future for all.

What does money have to do with anything?

7 minutes ago, Ultimate_Vault_Hunter said:

One betrayal would be not letting us know who and what we are until it was a necessity. She let us think we were some kind of mechanical/biomechanical death machine and not people. People who developed transference and became threats to the big bad Sentients. After killing some sentients, i suspect she may have saved us out of fear for her own brethren.

If she feared for her own brethren, she would have let the Stalker kill us. Period. If you think her waking us up so we could DESTROY Sentients was her saving her brethren, then that's an issue you need to think through on your own. No amount of others explaining it will matter if you think bringing people back that can eradicate the Sentients is "saving" the Sentients. Literally the only way to ensure Sentient survival would have been to allow the Tenno to perish.

EDIT: Also, her keeping our nature secret was her trying to protect us. If no one knows the Moon is real (indeed, even Alad V thought it was a myth), or that the Tenno AREN'T the Warframes, then they have no way to find and kill them.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Minion135

[SeaUrchins]

13 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

What did she do ?

She put Tenno to sleep and threw them with their moon crib into the void. If Tenno have mortal bodies, that'd mean eventual death in sleep due to cryocapsule malfunction or the building collapsing (you saw the current state of Lua, the place is falling apart).

If I wanted to speculate, I could make a claim that she put us to sleep and sent us to void because she simply could not find a way to kill us and we're immortal (proven by Harrow quest where operator cannot be killed, but sent briefly to the void). Incapacitating us with permanent sleep was her best choice and when we came back and learned the truth about her, claiming she saved us was the only way for her to stay alive.

Edited July 10, 2017 by SeaUrchins

[Minion135]

2 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

She put Tenno to sleep and threw them with their moon crib into the void. If Tenno have mortal bodies, that'd mean eventual death in sleep due to cryocapsule malfunction or the building collapsing (you saw the current state of Lua, the place is falling apart).

If I wanted to speculate, I could make a claim that she put us to sleep and sent us to void because she simply could not find a way to kill us and we're immortal (proven by Harrow quest where operator cannot be killed, but sent briefly to the void). Incapacitating us with permanent sleep was her best choice and when we came back and learned the truth about her, claiming she saved us was the only way for her to stay alive.

Okay, done with the ignorance now. You go on believing what you want, even if it is devoid of all fact and reason.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

24 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

So how did she betray us ?

What did she do

13 minutes ago, Minion135 said:

What proof was that? There was literally 0 indication of Natah existing still. There's only The Lotus.

What does money have to do with anything?

If she feared for her own brethren, she would have let the Stalker kill us. Period. If you think her waking us up so we could DESTROY Sentients was her saving her brethren, then that's an issue you need to think through on your own. No amount of others explaining it will matter if you think bringing people back that can eradicate the Sentients is "saving" the Sentients. Literally the only way to ensure Sentient survival would have been to allow the Tenno to perish.

o.o

Isn't it odd though? And when we first get awoken it is not for sentients, it is because of grineer. There is fear from Natah when the concuclyst is scanned in the sealab. We start off trying to stop the release of Hunhow, not in fear of what he would do to Tenno, but in fear of what we would learn about the Lotus.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Ultimate_Vault_Hunter
too many words

[Minion135]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Vault_Hunter said:

Isn't it odd though? And when we first get awoken it is not for sentients, it is because of grineer. There is fear from Natah when the concuclyst is scanned in the sealab. We start off trying to stop where the release of Hunhow, not in fear of what he would do to Tenno, but in fear of what we would learn about the Lotus.

She didn't know what we scanned when we scanned a Conculyst in that quest. She said her sensors went dark, remember, and then she thought it was something Corpus made. Regardless, there's never been any indication from any lore source, or from DE themselves, that the Lotus doesn't care about the Tenno and want to keep them safe. She's literally the only character DE have said does NOT have ulterior motives for the Tenno, other than them staying safe and alive. Anyone who believes anything otherwise... Well, I don't know why they trust their own character, if they believe otherwise.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

@Minion135 Money is power made material. I don't want to kill the Lotus for power, i want to kill her for survival.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

2 minutes ago, Minion135 said:

She didn't know what we scanned when we scanned a Conculyst in that quest. She said her sensors went dark, remember, and then she thought it was something Corpus made. Regardless, there's never been any indication from any lore source, or from DE themselves, that the Lotus doesn't care about the Tenno and want to keep them safe. She's literally the only character DE have said does NOT have ulterior motives for the Tenno, other than them staying safe and alive. Anyone who believes anything otherwise... Well, I don't know why they trust their own character, if they believe otherwise.

Again, my reason is not for her motives, but the motives of more powerful Sentients than her.

[SeaUrchins]

She literally sits on a pile of reactors and catalysts, it would make a sense to raid her place for those resources.

[AlphaPHENIX]

I agree, kill her and join Stalker, one less person to boss us around and one less assassin to hunt us down, couldn't get any better.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

10 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

I agree, kill her and join Stalker, one less person to boss us around and one less assassin to hunt us down, couldn't get any better.

Eh, still making allies with an enemy

[Sintag]

23 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

I agree, kill her and join Stalker, one less person to boss us around and one less assassin to hunt us down, couldn't get any better.

...Welp, enjoy getting farmed for mods.

[BenThePoofle]

It doesn't help lotus's case that she doesn't show care for your wellbeing at all, or even feelings. The characters who care about you are Ordis and Teshin.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

1 hour ago, BenThePoofle said:

It doesn't help lotus's case that she doesn't show care for your wellbeing at all, or even feelings. The characters who care about you are Ordis and Teshin.

Praise the Poofle!