Solo Is Now Dull , And Not Rewarding Enough . Get A Squad For A Far More Easy Game.

[HexCaliber]

Seems some folks skip posts, so I will make this clear, I am still able to solo t3 void with ease, can still do any boss in the game with any frame, with melee or pistol only, and have had np in nightmare mode.

 

HOWEVER, there is a bug with some missions flagged as solo, and they are not scaling as they should, when it happens, the same level 30 frame and weapons I am using to cakewalk t3 void gets ripped a new one by mobs in a standard mission that should be a snooze, the last time it was S#&$ty level 25 grineer. It does not happen every mission, and I have enough hours (541) in this game to know the difference between a problem and my just not doing well.

 

I found through a great deal of testing that it does not happen when I switch to "private only" and then solo missions, instead of selecting "solo".

[LazyKnight]

Seems some folks skip posts, so I will make this clear, I am still able to solo t3 void with ease, can still do any boss in the game with any frame, with melee or pistol only, and have had np in nightmare mode.

 

HOWEVER, there is a bug with some missions flagged as solo, and they are not scaling as they should, when it happens, the same level 30 frame and weapons I am using to cakewalk t3 void gets ripped a new one by mobs in a standard mission that should be a snooze, the last time it was S#&$ty level 25 grineer. It does not happen every mission, and I have enough hours (541) in this game to know the difference between a problem and my just not doing well.

 

I found through a great deal of testing that it does not happen when I switch to "private only" and then solo missions, instead of selecting "solo".

It is hard to prove to DE this because unlike (world of warcraft) your not getting information of "player hit for 10000 damage" or similar information. Summit a video in the bug section on how much damage you take, if you can.

Edited July 19, 2013 by LazyKnight

[arch111]

Ok first of all really fun reading all posts, and I agree that Solo must be looked at if it is to be a choice in the future.

 

I have a few things I would like to clarify, since alot of vets try to think like a beginner.

I started just before U8 and I remember finding it pretty hard after U8. The reason I got through the maps was that I ran Online with rushers.

I tried soloing but died alot. After being carried I gained XP and started to learn the game, went back to Mercury and stayed there, doing Vor.

 

I play Loki and I am now l30, Mastery 2, and have finally got my Braton and Starter gun to 30. My Crono is still 27.

The thing is that for me, and all new to the game, the starting gear can only get you so far. I have been lucky to have found fire and electrical damagemods, as well as continuity and Flow essential to Loki.

Loki is essentially a Stealth ninja assassin, but the game is Action only. Some rooms can not be traversed without detection, and once spotted, its over.

 

I remember all to well running out of ammo after U8, and now after U9 I still do. But now its the enemy count that gets me, along with that it seems all enemies have got more HP then before. It does not help that they

 

1. Spawn from nowhere

2. Stab me in the back

3. Have got me on their radar

4. Can kill me with 2 blows

5. Can knock me down

 

This is not only Mercury, Venus, Saturn and Mars are all much harder now.

 

Add to this that in order to progress you need better weapons. To get weapons you need

1. Rescources

2. Time

3. Patience

4. Better weapons

 

At least thats how it feels like. I feel my Braton is to weak for Saturn and Earth, ESPECIALLY mobile Defence! But all players MUST farm these planets to get Salvage and the stuff you get from Infested.

 

To many vets have stated they run with starter frames and good guns. Well duh, I still cant get Hek since its Mastery 3, and in order to build any of the Blueprints I got, must farm planets that are just to hard. The solution could be to make these mats available in Venus so new players have a better chance, as well as a reason to grind there. Or nerf Saturn.

 

As for frames, I need rubedo, salvage and control modules right? Wich is even harder to do after U9.

 

I played the Alert with a group and died hopelessly along with several others. I saw the vets doing fine most of the time, and felt utterly useless.

 

Add to this list Nightmare mode, increased mob count making the screen a mess of colors and shapes where I am just clicking, hoping I hit something and dont die.

 

Alot have mentioned Serration and multishot. I can only assume this is dropped on planets I havent been to yet, since I have never seen one on Merc, Venus, Earth or Saturn.

 

To sum up: The original players that are now hardcore, bored, thinks its to easy need their own system. It needs to become unlocked through events, alerts, killing all bosses or something along those lines.

 

The others, me included, have Sol System. Make it more accessible, less demanding and more fun. It was more fun for me before U9, but I never played Pluto, Xini. I have never seem the Void for myself.

 

I´d like to though, I think DE have a good thing here concept wize, but is it going to be Hard Core or Casual -> Hardcore? Can I play sometimes just for the fun of it, or do I HAVE TO become a maxed HC veteran in order to play? World of Warcraft have zones, not everyone is expected to play the same areas or Quests. But they cant choose like we can, they cant move like we can.

 

So please, I get it that vets need End Game and that everything is to easy. I would like the chance to become one of you guys some day, just you know, give us a break. This is a BETA after all, we are all helping DE make the game, you vets more then most since you have been here the longest.

 

Sorry for the long post.

[fatpig84]

you mentioned specific weapons, Boltor, Despair , Orthos.  And Loki

there was a guy before you asking me to give him a random build ,and he would try to beat everything with a MK1-Braton , Aklato , Kogake and ember. (i asked him to avoid installing fire rate mods and any rare mod that is usually not dropped in lower lvl systems.) and his results are not the same as yours. So, no. not general verdict at all.

 

Lol then let me explain my weapon choices.

 

Why Boltor ?

Because I can't figure out the life for me where is the new ancient crit spot since they no longer have the good old boot.

So I am forced to spray and luck out. If the weak spots are more obvious, I would use a Braton instead.

 

 

Why Despair ?

Because it was the ONLY secondary I had put a potato. And it is the weapon of choice I use against Grineer and Corpus.  Hikou would be far more effective if I bothered to put a potato on it. Since it deals x3 light infested damage WHILE still armor ignore.

Phorid being light infested would have died so quickly that I don't even need to get close and melee him.

 

 

Why Orthos ?

This is a conscientious choice by myself. Light infested take x3 more slashing damage. End of story. You take the best weapon against the enemy that is weak against it. And Phorid fits the bill since it is a light infested. Yes this is shameless optimization. I use Kogake and Furax for fighting Grineer only.

 

 

Why Loki ?

Because there are claims where people that said,  "No ! Our starter frames are useless and we need master race frames to complete the game !!" Loki is a starter. Excalibur is a starter. Mag is a starter. I take him up on that claim.

 

 

Finally, may I ask you why are you intentionally gimping him ? Banning fire mods and no slashing weapons against infested ????  Because that becomes a case of a challenge mode. Heck I got most of my fire mods on Venus ! And that is a pretty low end planet. 

 

My task was to prove that even starter frames can compete and solo content.

 

 

To clear it up I did state that if you are going to solo, you have to make conscientious choices to optimize your build because there is hardly room for mistakes. Phorid is capable of 2 shotting my loki (1 hit drops me to health), so I equipped shade in case he knocks me down, then I hope my shade protects me by cloaking.

 

If you want to solo, high end content, please do make some choices (heck I swap loki for ember on Xini), because if everything is a perfect sidegrade, no one would bother about this game ever. It like soloing molten or kara in old WoW.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[Nagisawa]

Lol then let me explain my weapon choices.

 

Why Boltor ?

Because I can't figure out the life for me where is the new ancient crit spot since they no longer have the good old boot.

So I am forced to spray and luck out. If the weak spots are more obvious, I would use a Braton instead.

 

 

Why Despair ?

Because it was the ONLY secondary I had put a potato. And it is the weapon of choice I use against Grineer and Corpus.  Hikou would be far more effective if I bothered to put a potato on it. Since it deals x3 light infested damage WHILE still armor ignore.

Phorid being light infested would have died so quickly that I don't even need to get close and melee him.

 

 

Why Orthos ?

This is a conscientious choice by myself. Light infested take x3 more slashing damage. End of story. You take the best weapon against the enemy that is weak against it. And Phorid fits the bill since it is a light infested. Yes this is shameless optimization. I use Kogake and Furax for fighting Grineer only.

 

 

Why Loki ?

Because there are claims where people that said,  "No ! Our starter frames are useless and we need master race frames to complete the game !!" Loki is a starter. Excalibur is a starter. Mag is a starter. I take him up on that claim.

 

 

Finally, may I ask you why are you intentionally gimping him ? Banning fire mods and no slashing weapons against infested ????  Because that becomes a case of a challenge mode. Heck I got most of my fire mods on Venus ! And that is a pretty low end planet. 

 

My task was to prove that even starter frames can compete and solo content.

 

 

To clear it up I did state that if you are going to solo, you have to make conscientious choices to optimize your build because there is hardly room for mistakes. Phorid is capable of 2 shotting my loki (1 hit drops me to health), so I equipped shade in case he knocks me down, then I hope my shade protects me by cloaking.

 

If you want to solo, high end content, please do make some choices (heck I swap loki for ember on Xini), because if everything is a perfect sidegrade, no one would bother about this game ever. It like soloing molten or kara in old WoW.

And you completely miss the point of this thread.  OK then.  Next poster please.

[fatpig84]

And you completely miss the point of this thread.  OK then.  Next poster please.

 

And yet he stated that you need a Rhino, Nyx and frost blah blah to compete.

I said no.

 

He said it was too hard solo a level 27 mission.

I doubled up his mission difficulty levels (Ceres and Eris, fastest route from 1st node all the way to boss solo) and take up on the claim.

 

All missions solo on a starter frame, with middling mods, in fact I still have 15 frame points left over because my Loki has tons of mods un-maxed. And he is is not even Formaed. I haven't even maxed Radial Disarm and switch teleport lol.

 

So now I guess Loki is Op now (lol wut).

 

Fine have it your way. You need to be Op, you need to have Op mods, you need Op everything to clear everything alone.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[Loswaith]

Its more you are using 3 powerful weapons, that a new player (without platinum) is unlikely to have access too and definatly unlikely to have catalysts/reactors in.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Loswaith

[fatpig84]

Its more you are using 3 powerful weapons, that a new player (without platinum) is unlikely to have access too and definatly unlikely to have catalysts/reactors in.

 

All 3 are potatoed using crafted potato. But point conceded.

And are they all not formaed.

 

Boltor is a Mastery 2 weapon that is cheaper to make than a single Furis. 

 

Despair was a lucky drop. A Kunai can do it with the same effect. 

In fact using Despair in Eris, I was gimping myself since my damage was only 50% out of 90% of the encounters.

I had to fit a trick mag mod to cos I fear I ran out of ammo.

 

 

Orthos requires 4 Morphics.

Which is relatively uncommon unless you joined last week which rained Morphics.

But it does not require Rubedo making it far easier to build (all it resources drop in Mercury and Venus) than Gram or Scindo.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[LazyKnight]

All 3 are potatoed using crafted potato. But fine point conceded.

And are they all not formaed.

 

 

One weapon that is an ironclad argument of "can it be done with starter gear" is to get a credit braton level it to 30 and clear the mission you were talking about.

[fatpig84]

One weapon that is an ironclad argument of "can it be done with starter gear" is to get a credit braton level it to 30 and clear the mission you were talking about.

 

A Braton fine. If i got the time I will do a full run with Eris, using unpotatoed weapons.

If I complete it again, can I say the problem lies with the players ?

[LazyKnight]

A Braton fine. If i got the time I will do a full run with Eris, using unpotatoed weapons.

If I complete it again, can I say the problem lies with the players ?

If you want too, the only issue with it is the serration and split chamber use any mods but those two just to prove it wasn't because of them you cleared it.

 

That optional not telling you want to do but it would show that it can be done with any easily obtianed mod and with a easily obtained weapon.

Edited July 20, 2013 by LazyKnight

[fatpig84]

If you want too, the only issue with it is the serration and split chamber use any mods but those two just to prove it wasn't because of them you cleared it.

 

Dude split chamber is only a luxury IF your damage mods are up to par and potatoed weapon.

Because it cost 15 mod points.

 

A skilled player who is using un-potatoed weapons won't even use them, because there is math in this game.

I actually spent time with a calculator to calculate DPS If i plan to run a non-potato weapon.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[TheHeraldXII]

If you want too, the only issue with it is the serration and split chamber use any mods but those two just to prove it wasn't because of them you cleared it.

Why would he not be able to use Serration, Split Chamber I understand, but Serration? By the time a "new player" has unlocked Eris I think we can assume that someone at some point has dropped a Serration mod.

 

Edit: Better question, what does completing Eris have to do with early game difficulty? It's also worth noting that a new player would have access to 2 potatoes potentially.

Edited July 20, 2013 by TheHeraldXII

[LazyKnight]

Why would he not be able to use Serration, Split Chamber I understand, but Serration? By the time a "new player" has unlocked Eris I think we can assume that someone at some point has dropped a Serration mod.

It a very common issue people can't get it or rank it(I do not personal care just think he is an older player that only has a rank 10).

 

 

 

A skilled player who is using un-potatoed weapons won't even use them, because there is math in this game.

I actually spent time with a calculator to calculate DPS If i plan to run a non-potato weapon.

I am well aware you clear it anyway just look how many topic start with I can't get split chamber and serration will not drop, meant nothing else by what I said.

Edited July 20, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Xylia]

So now I guess Loki is Op now (lol wut).

 

Loki is actually very powerful. Not OP, but very powerful in the hands of a player with the right mods.

 

Try that Phorid Run with Mag and see how well you do.

 

Must be easy to keep chain-popping invisibility and slash Phorid to death, aye?

 

And the whole thing of "can you solo x?" always comes down to "do you have the right mods, and the right weapons?"

 

You can't even make a Boltor until at least Earth (Neurodes, lol). If you're having trouble with mod drops the "LOL NAPALM IN EVERY ROOM!" is probably going to have you hurting if you're using a Braton with low mods.

[fatpig84]

It a very common issue people can't get it or rank it(I do not personal care just think he is an older player that only has a rank 10).

 

 

I am well aware you clear it anyway just look how many topic start with I can't get split chamber serration will not drop meant nothing else by what I said.

 

Regrettably my is only rank 6 or rank 7 because I do use unpotato weapons and seriously max rank split chamber and max rank serration is extremely inefficient in cost unless you have forma and potatoed.

 

But that is a gripe for another day.

[fatpig84]

Loki is actually very powerful. Not OP, but very powerful in the hands of a player with the right mods.

 

Try that Phorid Run with Mag and see how well you do.

 

Must be easy to keep chain-popping invisibility and slash Phorid to death, aye?

 

And the whole thing of "can you solo x?" always comes down to "do you have the right mods, and the right weapons?"

 

You can't even make a Boltor until at least Earth (Neurodes, lol). If you're having trouble with mod drops the "LOL NAPALM IN EVERY ROOM!" is probably going to have you hurting if you're using a Braton with low mods.

 

Ok so I can't use my 3rd fave frame loki, and my 1st fave frame Excalibur. Mag it is.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[Xylia]

Ok so I can't use my 3rd fave frame loki, and my 1st fave frame Excalibur. Mag it is.

 

You don't have to, I'm just asking how much did the ability to go invisible contribute to the fight against Phorid? lol.

 

You say "I DID PHORID SOLO!" doesn't mean much if you relied on a somewhat OP combination of staying invisible most of the time and slashing him to death (with the bonus that invisibility gives).

 

Excalibur would be a "LOL SLASH DASH GO!" when you can pop him for 1500 every 2 seconds.

[fatpig84]

You don't have to, I'm just asking how much did the ability to go invisible contribute to the fight against Phorid? lol.

 

You say "I DID PHORID SOLO!" doesn't mean much if you relied on a somewhat OP combination of staying invisible most of the time and slashing him to death (with the bonus that invisibility gives).

 

Excalibur would be a "LOL SLASH DASH GO!" when you can pop him for 1500 every 2 seconds.

 

Actually not much surprisingly.

 

I went in invisible was to get close because of his OHKO physic bolts of doom, any weapon with a cold mod would slow him down enough for a player to keep behind him, heck even a Rhino can stay behind him.

 

And Excalibur won't be spamming slash damage. Radial blind is sooo much better since I can hit harder than 1.5k every 2 seconds with my Orthos and it last a brilliant 12 seconds. Phorid won't even get a scream off (which my loki still did get staggered from it as per the screen shot) Ash however can shuriken him till he dies since he does 500 x 2 shurikens that deal triple damage against light infested.

[Azraill]

Loki is actually very powerful. Not OP, but very powerful in the hands of a player with the right mods.

 

Try that Phorid Run with Mag and see how well you do.

 

Must be easy to keep chain-popping invisibility and slash Phorid to death, aye?

 

And the whole thing of "can you solo x?" always comes down to "do you have the right mods, and the right weapons?"

 

You can't even make a Boltor until at least Earth (Neurodes, lol). If you're having trouble with mod drops the "LOL NAPALM IN EVERY ROOM!" is probably going to have you hurting if you're using a Braton with low mods.

 

Doesn't sound like it's down to 'right mods and right weapons' so much as 'right frame' or 'use gimpy frame for what your trying to accomplish.' 

 

That's like expecting Ash to succeed in a Defense mission. His abilities all go against the idea of defending a point and just scream "attack the point while I'm doing this." 

 

Expecting Mag who's abilities aren't really designed for solo in the first place to go against a high level boss won't pan well. Though TBH .. I could take a semi-leveled frame of any kind to Phorid so long as I tacked in Rush and Redirection : He has no ranged attack, you can just hide behind a crate during the initial dart-attack that instant kills just about anyone : and then because of redirection survive the 'Howl' .. then just kite him. The hardest part would be getting to him, which is just a matter of bringing a fire mod in your weapons and having them at the level of the mission. Oh speaking of which..

 

Anyone notice it's level 57? You know, where all your gear caps out at 30? Know what that means? Your suppose to have a patato in all your gear for it if your going to solo it so your technically 60. How is that hard to understand? Is it doable without it, probably : are you suppose to? No!

 

If your absolutely determined to do EVERYTHING solo your going to have to go back to places you've already been and grind out levels, find mods that gear toward your goal. It's entirely possible, but by no means 'easy' and that's perfectly fine. The game wasn't designed for you to be rushing to every single high end boss while also being so stubborn as to not even befriend anyone along the way to help you.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Azraill

[Xylia]

Actually not much surprisingly.

 

I went in invisible was to get close because of his OHKO physic bolts of doom, any weapon with a cold mod would slow him down enough for a player to keep behind him, heck even a Rhino can stay behind him.

 

And Excalibur won't be spamming slash damage. Radial blind is sooo much better since I can hit harder than 1.5k every 2 seconds with my Orthos and it last a brilliant 12 seconds. Phorid won't even get a scream off (which my loki still did get staggered from it as per the screen shot) Ash however can shuriken him till he dies since he does 500 x 2 shurikens that deal triple damage against light infested.

 

Must be nice to have maxed out mods on those weapons, eh?

 

Or damn near it if you're doing more than 1500/2 sec....

[Loswaith]

...

Edit: Better question, what does completing Eris have to do with early game difficulty? It's also worth noting that a new player would have access to 2 potatoes potentially.

True Eris is likely a little late in the scheme of the game that a new player would have given up or have a good collection of mods and weaponry, probably even a few frames.  Many defence missions stand along the paths of progression.

 

Likely the bigest factor I find is scalling.  Based around the total kills of all players I have found (assuming solo is the 100% mark) that duo is often about 150% of solo, while 3-4 players is around the 175%-200% total kills, for a typical mission, so lets go 175% for 3 and 200% for 4.

 

There in lies the crux of the situation.  Assuming all members contribue equally, a single player solo is doing 100% of the work, duo about 75-80%, tripple about 60%-70%, while quad about 50%-60% of the work.  On top of that a cohesive squad likely can get a good 20-50% more effectiveness out of their gear (warframes/weapons/mods) through synergistic playing.  (these arent hard numbers just general observations)

 

Conversly you are getting significantly less mods and affinity solo as well, even though in solo you are going far more work than in a group.  Solo I tend to be lucky to get 5 mods, in groups rarely do I see less than 5 from a single mission, and often break the 10+ mods.

 

Sure it doesnt mean you wont be able to solo stuff eventually (so impossible may be inaccurate term), but at what point is it going to stagnate their progression, or cause a player to get bored with the game.

[fatpig84]

Must be nice to have maxed out mods on those weapons, eh?

 

Or damn near it if you're doing more than 1500/2 sec....

 

 

Not really, it's math.

Orthos deals x3 slashing damage.

Fire damage deals x2 vs infested that seems to be multiplied by the x3.

 

You can see how that quickly scales.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[TheHeraldXII]

You know, Fatpig, while I agree that the early game difficulty hasn't been ramped up enough to justify this kind of outrage, proving you can kill Phorid is kind of a moot point. I'm pretty sure everyone understands that the final 3 systems are more difficult but still possible, what we should really be testing is how easy is it to progress from the start point of the game until the end.

Xylia, you have an interesting point about not being able to get access to certain weapons until you can unlock level 20+ planets. If that is as difficult as you seem to think, that could be an issue.

I'm starting an experiment, starting a new account and trying a solo run through the system, I did Mercury and Venus this morning for science and the results of each mission are here: http://imgur.com/a/ZjI0u

So far, this experiment has gone without a hitch, which is to be expected seeing as Venus and Mercury only had a change of 2 levels at most. Captain Vor appeared at level 1 which was interesting, he can be brought down by unranked starter weapons as it turns out.

[fatpig84]

Meh I should do the same as you are trying Herald. To see how hard the difficulty has hit.