Solo Is Now Dull , And Not Rewarding Enough . Get A Squad For A Far More Easy Game.

[Nagisawa]

% Chance that the gun will fire 2 shots with one trigger press/ammo use.

 

Shoot Gun Once. 1 Ammo used. 2 Bullets.

 

Some multishot can go above 100% (max 120%) which means:

 

Shoot Gun Once, 1 Ammo Used. 2 Bullets + 20% chance of a third.

 

It is extremely overpowered compared to other mods, hence why everybody wants it.

 

A 100%  Multishot on your gun basically doubles your DPS and your Ammo Efficiency.

 

EDIT: Multishot for Broncos/Shotguns works differently. The % is bonus number of pellets fired with 1 shot. A 100% Hell's Chamber on a Hek means that it fires 28 pellets instead of 14, each pellet doing its normal damage.

 

EDIT2: Basically, a Hell's Chamber on a Sobek means that it fires 8x25 (200) per shot, not counting all the other damage mods he's got on it. Which is kinda ridiculous before adding on Blaze AND Point Blank, which is 150% damage combined.

 

So, uh, his Sobek is doing 500 a shot assuming all pellets hit. And he has Armor Pierce on top of that.

 

A bit overpowered IMO.

 

It is people with stupidly OP crap like this (and Ogris/Torid) who are whining to DE to make the game harder, so that those of us who don't have awesome stuff like that are having serious trouble killing stuff.

Thanks again.  Good to know.  Too bad, I'll not be playing this game until they tone it down a bit.

 

I have a really low frustration level, and if I get frustrated (which I do, way too fast) I tend to drop the game for a while.

[InFlames]

Read my Edit, please.

 

Done, no worries with that :D

So, tell me something 500 damage without the Multishot chance? or with it?

My Ogris doesn't have any nightmare mod, if you want i can show some screenies D:

Oh! And I know you did not say that is was a useless gun and such. I'm just trying to prove that a low mastery gun can be really OP with some powerful mods ^^

Some might be hard to get but most of them not so much! O:

[Xylia]

Done, no worries with that :D

So, tell me something 500 damage without the Multishot chance? or with it?

My Ogris doesn't have any nightmare mod, if you want i can show some screenies D:

Oh! And I know you did not say that is was a useless gun and such. I'm just trying to prove that a low mastery gun can be really OP with some powerful mods ^^

Some might be hard to get but most of them not so much! O:

 

With Multishot.

 

And yes, Mods make the game.

 

Too bad Mods are 100% RNG and some players go ridiculously long times without the mods they want/need.

 

For example.

 

I put in 160 hours. Steam says 201. (probably updating, etc. I don't think the in-game clock counts time spent in Foundry/Arsenal UIs).

 

I have 0 Focus mods. Everybody loves pointing out Ember's OMG 91% Damage Resistance with Overheat+Focus! and I'm like "uh, yeah, if I HAD a freaking Focus.....which I don't....."

Edited July 21, 2013 by Xylia

[TheHeraldXII]

With Multishot.

 

And yes, Mods make the game.

 

Too bad Mods are 100% RNG and some players go ridiculously long times without the mods they want/need.

 

For example.

 

I put in 160 hours. Steam says 201. (probably updating, etc. I don't think the in-game clock counts time spent in Foundry/Arsenal UIs).

 

I have 0 Focus mods. Everybody loves pointing out Ember's OMG 91% Damage Resistance with Overheat+Focus! and I'm like "uh, yeah, if I HAD a freaking Focus.....which I don't....."

Yeah, that's very true, I went 300 hours without Focus. The RNG is a pain in the rear and it'd be much better if there was a reliable way to aquire the basic damage mods, then everything would be much nicer. The way I see it, how hard the game is for a new player depends entirely on luck for them. If they had reliable access to Serration/Hornet Strike and the elementals, there would be a much clearer progression through the game.

I got by plenty fine without focus, streamline or multishot for a long while. As long as you can get your elementals and serration up to rank 3, I'd say you stand a good chance of getting through Neptune or Europa.

 

Edit: Day 2 is done, now I'm boxed in by defenses. No other mission seems that difficult but defenses are nightmarish. http://imgur.com/a/UV6Xn

Edited July 21, 2013 by TheHeraldXII

[fatpig84]

Defenses are the biggest issue I can see, because given how variable the map can be spawned, except for certain corpus def maps you will be forced to fight enemies from different locations which is taxing on a newbie.

 

At least Xini and Venera are consistent maps with 2 choke points which can be soloed if you take cover religiously or using the right frame for the job.

Edited July 21, 2013 by fatpig84

[PaperAlien]

ahah. i started with old school Mag.

 

Then yes i think you're pretty bad at this game.

Now what are you all going to claim? that I'm a no lifer? Ahahaha 

Working 8hrs a day and when is needed 9hrs so. invalid argument before you claim such things.

OP and all these.. things around here just want to play the game rushing etc etc witch does not work anymore, guess your all going to have to suit yourselves like this. A bit more hard.

Start grinding in team like i did when i started. Always 4 people parties and we had no problems whatsoever. 

In nightmare runs the most people that join are players with mastery ranks 5 and above. level's 2 and 3 aren't just playing or i get some really OP parties. If my guns weren't enough already :D

Ah, so that's your view on things. Well, I will bother you no more, it's obvious that nothing's gonna go through that thick skull.

[Parias-Ilota]

The important issue right now is to reduce the numbers of the enemies in solo matches.

 

i also agree that the weapons needs to be balanced and all that. but this is more important since it can break your computer.

i would love to see the vets crying about their beloved guns being nerfed. just for the record.

[fatpig84]

The important issue right now is to reduce the numbers of the enemies in solo matches.

 

i also agree that the weapons needs to be balanced and all that. but this is more important since it can break your computer.

i would love to see the vets crying about their beloved guns being nerfed. just for the record.

 

Actually solo modes does reduce enemies I have actually walked into rooms that are totally empty.

 

Even with a Mag and Excal. Loki is a given since I can just walk past them if I wanted but I just don't like energy siphon, so I have to kill enemies for orbs.

 

However you need a silent side arm / primary and be very stealthy because once the alarm goes off, the numbers will increase very very quickly (duh).

Edited July 21, 2013 by fatpig84

[Tesrac]

I can see reducing the number of enemies in a solo mission, especially for the lower level missions that newer players are going to have to run....In terms of "rare" mods I've had both great and cruddy luck finding them.  I have found two split chambers, but nothing for rifle multi-shot, all kinds of energy/ability related mods, but no damage+ mod for my abilities, best one was a Master Thief mod on Wave 5 of a Tier 1 Corpus defense mission, a mission we were going to exit on at wave five so we could try for a better map without the frost enviromental effect. 

 

It seems that the mods rarity isn't really accurate to be honest, it took me forever to get my first serration, but now I see them more often.  Things like that, in terms of dealing with lots of enemies and the like, just get smart, I run a Loki and manage to solo many things quite well, including missions that are waaaaay beyond my rank/mod levels, but it requires both forethought and a willingness to adapt to the circumstances you are in...I honestly think all the caps in your initial post were off putting and very overdone, it's like screaming at someone to try and get your point across....tends to make people want to shut you out for being uncivil.

 

Honestly, I think you are over emphasising the difficulty for the mid level game, I think we can all agree the end game content is fine.....but the early game should be set specifically for new players, especially Mercury where they are just learning the ropes and basics of the game.

[JustDont]

Who are these 'people'?  I wanna smack them.  U8 was perfect in terms of solo balance for me.  And I'm not a young man anymore.  OK, maybe mentally I am, but anyway...  Reflexes were never that good.  But I want to play this game.

One of the "people" reporting in.

U9 is much more likable in terms of difficulty than U8. U8 == nothing exciting to do except for endless defense wave 30+ or T3 runs. U9 == now you HAVE to think a bit and not just run & gun, otherwise you may die even on a normal mission.

 

It's fun.

 

PS: No, the "press some buttons while you're half-asleep and half-afk for an easy win" is not a fun approach to me.

 

I can see reducing the number of enemies in a solo mission, especially for the lower level missions that newer players are going to have to run....

Solo missions already have MUCH less enemies than non-solo. It was pretty obvious before they upped the spawn rate, now it's even more obvious.

Edited July 21, 2013 by JustDont

[Vercinaigh]

While not gonna bother commenting on every point. One you're misguided on the general mentality of Council members thus i have seen and talked to. Also you are in some ways correct, arbitrarily increasing numbers or levels is not fun, dynamics is what we'd all like to see, complex and not just for the sake of it either. Depth is a issue, i'm pretty sure they are aware, give it time, this is a beta, they are by no means blind.

[Xehalin]

This game doesn't reach anywhere near Serious Sam level of enemy waves. But it doesn't matter. You can't compare the two games. Sam threw health packs your way throughout the level, sometimes at a point where you needed it much earlier. You can carry health packs on your person through the mission and use them at your discretion. You can regenerate health freely through an aura. You can increase your shields and its regeneration rate along with your amount of available health. You can even pick your loadout and pimp it out to be uber.

 

You get four free revives as well. So you can die and make mistakes without having to die and start over from the last checkpoint. Should I go on about how the comparison is bad and how Warframe isn't difficult? Also, Warframe is a game you can solo by choice. You're not forced to. You're given the option to play privately with friends, solo, or do a pug. Either way, you can have up to 3 other people help you through "hard" missions.

 

Here's the final nail in the coffin: You're not even forced to fight your way through the enemies. You can rush past them easily. Sam forced you to fight to continue. Waframe does not, unless its an assassination mission, a defense mission, or you get locked in a room with enemies and have to kill them before you can hack the system safely. No excuse, if you ask me.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Xehalin

[Destro6677]

ahah. i started with old school Mag.

 

Then yes i think you're pretty bad at this game.

Now what are you all going to claim? that I'm a no lifer? Ahahaha 

Working 8hrs a day and when is needed 9hrs so. invalid argument before you claim such things.

OP and all these.. things around here just want to play the game rushing etc etc witch does not work anymore, guess your all going to have to suit yourselves like this. A bit more hard.

Start grinding in team like i did when i started. Always 4 people parties and we had no problems whatsoever. 

In nightmare runs the most people that join are players with mastery ranks 5 and above. level's 2 and 3 aren't just playing or i get some really OP parties. If my guns weren't enough already :D

I don't rush. Tbh I really dislike rushing.

 

I take cover and land headshots and such. 

 

However, I will maintain that mobile/defense is rigged so that you can only win in a squad. A few veterans have come by here and said they were willing to run any mission with unranked weapons and frame except the defense missions.

 

Also, I played a few rounds of killng tyl regor online recently with a pub group. It was just as easy to half afk and press 4 to win as it was during U8. The only reason one guy died was because he made some very stupid mistakes (like meleeing the heavies, jumping into the middle of 6 level 43 grineer and kunai spamming)

 

Why should life be easier for people playing in groups as opposed to playing solo? It doesn't promote team play or strategy. In the end, the increased spawn numbers become pointless because the difficulty hasn't really increased at all.

 

Loswaith made an insightful post when he said that taking one solo player's spawn rate as 100%, a 4 man party only has 200% spawn rate and not 400%. That means currently, playing in a team means that you only do 50% of the work of a solo player.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Destro6677

[TheHeraldXII]

I don't rush. Tbh I really dislike rushing.

 

I take cover and land headshots and such. 

 

However, I will maintain that mobile/defense is rigged so that you can only win in a squad. A few veterans have come by here and said they were willing to run any mission with unranked weapons and frame except the defense missions.

 

Also, I played a few rounds of killng tyl regor online recently with a pub group. It was just as easy to half afk and press 4 to win as it was during U8. The only reason anyone died was because he made some very stupid mistakes (like meleeing the heavies, jumping into the middle of 6 level 43 grineer and kunai spamming)

 

Why should life be easier for people playing in groups as opposed to playing solo? It doesn't promote team play or strategy. In the end, the increased spawn numbers become pointless because the difficulty hasn't really increased at all.

 

Loswaith made an insightful post when he said that taking one solo player's spawn rate as 100%, a 4 man party only has 200% spawn rate and not 400%. That means currently, playing in a team means that you only do 50% of the work of a solo player.

Definitely a good point. Enemy spawns should scale better with the number of players, right now I'm convinced there is no scaling. I see 150-300 kills a mission solo or online. Having the enemies scaled down to maybe 80% or 75% of their numbers for solo players and up for larger groups could do wonders for the early game difficulty.

Another mostly unrelated idea is to make it so mobile/defense maps aren't blocking off player progress so they're entirely optional while unlocking the map.

[arch111]

Ok some input from a beginner.

Mercury IS fixed, i have had less spawns, no heavys or shield lancers since last hotfix

In a group, i think they still occur.

Levels are the 1-4. Fine for new players.

I am building up some aggro that all progress is hindered by defence maps.

this is strange. Defence is imo much harder solo or otherwise.

So why must i defend a map pn a world i have never been to in order to get to a boss?

Would sabotage, or exterminate not be more fitting?

Earth and Saturn are more of a challenge for me and i die often.

The wall is rescources to build. Jupiter is to hard at present and i feel i MUST have better weapons.

but farming is slow, and a failed mission or disconnected = i loose all.

A important q for all vets; is it fun to be so good that nothing challenging for me, is laughable to you?

Where do you get your fun in wf? What needs to chang

Proving you can solo, really doesnt help me.

An d rushers, lagg, spawn count etc mean solo is simetimes the only choice.

[Destro6677]

Ok some input from a beginner.

Mercury IS fixed, i have had less spawns, no heavys or shield lancers since last hotfix

In a group, i think they still occur.

Levels are the 1-4. Fine for new players.

I am building up some aggro that all progress is hindered by defence maps.

this is strange. Defence is imo much harder solo or otherwise.

So why must i defend a map pn a world i have never been to in order to get to a boss?

Would sabotage, or exterminate not be more fitting?

Earth and Saturn are more of a challenge for me and i die often.

The wall is rescources to build. Jupiter is to hard at present and i feel i MUST have better weapons.

but farming is slow, and a failed mission or disconnected = i loose all.

A important q for all vets; is it fun to be so good that nothing challenging for me, is laughable to you?

Where do you get your fun in wf? What needs to chang

Proving you can solo, really doesnt help me.

An d rushers, lagg, spawn count etc mean solo is simetimes the only choice.

I am a long time casual player. For me, fun is not rushing. Fun is landing the most headshots I can using my new Lex pistol :)

 

Fun is blowing the head off vay hek using his own gun.

 

Fun is jumping into the middle of an infested mob and slashing away using my Hate, not forgetting to spam iron skin.

 

Fun is the feeling of finding a redirection mod after killing Vor and saying 'Yes, I didn't get his pistol but I got a useful mod. (this happened only 20 minutes ago)

 

And many more things that make warframe worth the grind.

 

I'm glad to hear Mercury is fixed. That probably means the devs have been reading the forums and are hard at work improving our warframe experience.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Destro6677

[JustDont]

Definitely a good point. Enemy spawns should scale better with the number of players, right now I'm convinced there is no scaling. I see 150-300 kills a mission solo or online. Having the enemies scaled down to maybe 80% or 75% of their numbers for solo players and up for larger groups could do wonders for the early game difficulty.

Another mostly unrelated idea is to make it so mobile/defense maps aren't blocking off player progress so they're entirely optional while unlocking the map.

There's definitely spawn scaling depending on the number of players.

Full exploration / full kill solo run on a non-exterminate, non-defense Grineer high level mission, triggering "you have been detected" right from the start -- ~200 frags.

Full exploration / full kill 4-man run with the same conditions on the same mission -- ~500 frags total.

 

Though the scaling is definitely non-linear (as I suspect, it's REALLY hard to cram ~1000 enemies into the same level), that's why 4-man runs are very noticeably easier than solo runs. Not even counting the synergy between players.

Edited July 21, 2013 by JustDont

[arch111]

This is off topic, but since U9 i get bizarre play where mobs and pl stand still, jumps ariund, hangs in midair.

i get this is lag, but this is new for me.

I have allso had fps slowing to a crawl.

Makes defence maps and precision difficult.

Another thing is every factions instakillers.

I have been killed in 1the shot in mars and saturn, no nightmare.

the latest was a osprey that appeared and railgunned me.

Have i just missed it, or are they too added for hc players sake?

[General_Krull]

I personally think that the amount of enemies should scale based on either amount of players or solo/online mode and to go even further solo/online should effect enemy level, damage or durability. 

 

So if I go in lets say grineer raid with 4 people I will face more and tougher enemies than if I went at it alone. Now the amount of enemies shouldn't be drastically lowered like from 10 enemies to 1 but still.

[arch111]

I personally think that the amount of enemies should scale based on either amount of players or solo/online mode and to go even further solo/online should effect enemy level, damage or durability. 

 

So if I go in lets say grineer raid with 4 people I will face more and tougher enemies than if I went at it alone. Now the amount of enemies shouldn't be drastically lowered like from 10 enemies to 1 but still.

Agreed. But tilesets and subgoals could also scale, as stated some tiles are harder solo.

[InFlames]

With Multishot.

 

And yes, Mods make the game.

 

Too bad Mods are 100% RNG and some players go ridiculously long times without the mods they want/need.

 

For example.

 

I put in 160 hours. Steam says 201. (probably updating, etc. I don't think the in-game clock counts time spent in Foundry/Arsenal UIs).

 

I have 0 Focus mods. Everybody loves pointing out Ember's OMG 91% Damage Resistance with Overheat+Focus! and I'm like "uh, yeah, if I HAD a freaking Focus.....which I don't....."

 

I usually get my Focus mods on Io - Jupiter, pretty accessible map and is awarded fairly frequently for a rare mod in wave 5 or 10 ^^

My ember doesn't use Focus and still kicks &#! D:

Gonna make her OP now :D

 

Ah, so that's your view on things. Well, I will bother you no more, it's obvious that nothing's gonna go through that thick skull.

 

Yep, nothing's gunn enter.

 

One of the "people" reporting in.

U9 is much more likable in terms of difficulty than U8. U8 == nothing exciting to do except for endless defense wave 30+ or T3 runs. U9 == now you HAVE to think a bit and not just run & gun, otherwise you may die even on a normal mission.

 

It's fun.

 

PS: No, the "press some buttons while you're half-asleep and half-afk for an easy win" is not a fun approach to me.

 

Solo missions already have MUCH less enemies than non-solo. It was pretty obvious before they upped the spawn rate, now it's even more obvious.

 

Thank you fine gentleman. <3

[InFlames]

Definitely a good point. Enemy spawns should scale better with the number of players, right now I'm convinced there is no scaling. I see 150-300 kills a mission solo or online. Having the enemies scaled down to maybe 80% or 75% of their numbers for solo players and up for larger groups could do wonders for the early game difficulty.

Another mostly unrelated idea is to make it so mobile/defense maps aren't blocking off player progress so they're entirely optional while unlocking the map.

 

This was on U8.

Your point is now invalid.

 

Edit: Inserted Spoiler.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Mr.Pava

[Nagisawa]

This was on U8.

Your point is now invalid.

 

Edit: Inserted Spoiler.

How do we know this is U8? And what point were you making?  That you had to wait on some low hitting loser, and both you guys waited out the respawn timer?

[HailCreation]

Solo what? I just soloed a pluto level with little issue. 

 

Defence (mobile defence too with a lot of levels) are about the only ones that can't really be soloed due to the waves of enemies and inability to manuver around the level. 

 

Everything else is fairly possible.

 

Didn't mention bosses because I felt it was obvious a boss likely won't be soloed. 

Edited July 21, 2013 by HailCreation

[xenapan]

Definitely a good point. Enemy spawns should scale better with the number of players, right now I'm convinced there is no scaling. I see 150-300 kills a mission solo or online. Having the enemies scaled down to maybe 80% or 75% of their numbers for solo players and up for larger groups could do wonders for the early game difficulty.

Another mostly unrelated idea is to make it so mobile/defense maps aren't blocking off player progress so they're entirely optional while unlocking the map.

there is scaling. you just dont see it because its an enemy cap and its quite high even for solo. i believe its 70 enemies for solo and up to 140 for 4 players. that is enemies that can be in existence at a time.