Question For The F2P'ers, From A Grandmaster

[B0AR]

That's the essence of my thread, Bry. Hope you approve/stick around to discuss! Any suggestions or arguments to have about how we could allow for Community members to view the first post of the poll and early info threads for Dev Council?

Totally forgot to say at the end of my paragraph that I agree with the essence of your thread lol. But yeah, I do feel like f2p players are somewhat shunned and that's not right in my eyes.  Just because us P2P players fund the game as a whole doesn't mean f2p players don't support the game too!  F2p players provide a general player base demographic which matters just as much as p2p players funding the game.  With that being said they should just allow f2p players in simple as that.  If they want to be really greedy they could also just make it so the only way you can get in the design council is if you make at least one purchase of platinum (Minimum 5$).  At least then you don't have to become a Master/Grand Master and the Company still walks out with money.

Edited July 19, 2013 by BryJFlex

[LeucienWeaver]

Ahh, put viewing the Dev Council's first posts behind a paywall that is really easy to achieve? That could be a /really/ radical way for them to get money, given just how easier it is for people to manage a 5$ contribution than it is a 100$ contribution...

As for contributing to the game, there are so many people out there who have ideas but don't bother to voice them where they would fit... If they could see Dev Council, even as a sampler, maybe they'd dive into the game more passionately.

[Gigatron-Prime]

I think we're coming at this the wrong way.

 

Is there something else Grandmasters could get that will fit their title and dedication they put forth?

 

Is this a GM perk issue?

[Oz270]

I support this idea.

I think the idea of the Masters and GM representing our votes to be a great idea, kinda works in life too.

For the guys that's gotten a GM pack or Master pack and refuses to budge on the council ideas being released.
The thing is that I'v spend nearly enough to get a Master pack though the months since Open Beta, eventually you'll get players like me that spent more then some masters and grand masters thu $10 or $15 purchases per month.

If we want to argue what about us
What then?

(and no i'm not trying to pick a fight, just wanted to add another perspective into the fray)

Edited July 19, 2013 by Oz270

[LeucienWeaver]

Not quite; this is me thinking that information should be readily available in such a way that it tempts people to buy into Dev Council, because as it is, unless they go look for stuff they won't know how it works or what it's about.

I'm thinking that Dev Council would ask for a replacement perk, maybe a discount to how much plat stuff costs in the store, or discount to buying plat periodically, but as it stands, I think it's fine.

[LeucienWeaver]

I support this idea.

I think the idea of the Masters and GM representing our votes to be a great idea, kinda works in life too.

For the guys that's gotten a GM pack or Master pack and refuses to budge on the council ideas being released.

The thing is that I'v spend nearly enough to get a Master pack though the months since Open Beta, eventually you'll get players like me that spent more then some masters and grand masters thu $10 or $15 purchases per month.

If we want to argue what about us

What then?

Maybe some kind of system that grandfathers in periodic purchase players into the council, or a subscription based access to Dev Council/other perks.

[B0AR]

I see a lot of good ideas get wasted because these specific people don't have access to the Design Council.

[Gigatron-Prime]

I see a lot of good ideas get wasted because these specific people don't have access to the Design Council.

If you wanna give them access, give them access. 

 

If that's the case though, grandmasters are going to need some other defining feature then to acknowledge their contribution...

[RoboDoge]

Design Council could give ideas while not having options to decide on anything. Leave that to developers. Just because you paid 200+ $ doesnt mean you have good judgement. Nova is kinda meh, powers are kinda  cartoon fanboy view of anti-matter.

 

OP is making good statement in the view of new content being on hold for F2P.

[Shewpdanewb]

this would be a bad idea. When the DC would vote on something that the majority of the players would hate, who will get the rage of the players? The DC. Don't get me wrong, I want everyone to have equal rights, but a system in which everyone is equal never works. Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.

[LeucienWeaver]

Shewp, the thing is, that system is already in place, as evident by the hundreds of nova rage threads that popped up from Community players... How did they get that knowledge? They were told of it by those that leak the information. I want equal viewing rights since everyone who wants to know can already find it, but voting rights to be behind a wall of somesort.

[Seraphyx]

Masters and Grand Masters have access to Development Council, and as such early information and voting privileges to new content that will come to the game. This is common knowledge, but i'm curious about something. Should the early information really be withheld from the free to play players? The ones who are truly determined to know what's coming can ask their friends, and for every major spoiler found on Dev Council, there is at least 10 people on the Dev Council that are sharing it through image or data sharing sites (Reddit, imgur, etc), which I am fine with. Why should progress of such a thing like the new Grineer tileset or Nova be kept from the rest of the community? <=== Directed at my fellow Masters/Grand Masters.

Now, I am not saying that Dev Council shouldn't exist; quite the contrary. I'm suggesting that the progress that we see already leaks within a matter of hours to the public, so why not make it public knowledge to begin with... And give Dev Council more polls and sandboxes to work with? Let the Free to Play community voice their opinions as things form, just like the paying community does, and if they feel like their voice should be loud enough to cast a voice, they can make it so. After all, some brilliant ideas sprung forth in the Free to Play equivalent of Nova's then to-be-voted-on power set, and quite a few Dev Council members brought in those ideas to the sandbox.

Anyway... Comments, opinions, hate, love...Bring it all!

EDIT: People are getting hung up on the notion of Dev Council being abolished, or their rights removed. I'm not saying that. I'm suggesting that we keep the chance to vote behind the Master/Grandmaster paywall, while allowing free to play people the chance to see and discuss what the Dev Council people can vote on.

To your first question. It shouldn't. And I don't think it is? I recall DE releasing all of the information about Nova to the rest of the playerbase a little while after too but because people are going to be releasing all of the information regardless does it really matter at this point if DE does or doesn't release it to the general public in the first place?

 

Basically it depends on what DE's goal with sharing this information with us is. Do they want feedback in a more controlled environment or what? Is it simply an early preview that may not be ready to be shown to everyone "officially"? Those are two things that, in my opinion, determine if some things should or should not be shared or advertised to everyone by DE specifically.

 

(I'm not sure what your question to the f2p community was)

Edited July 19, 2013 by Seraphyx

[LeucienWeaver]

To your first question. It shouldn't. And I don't think it is? I recall DE releasing all of the information about Nova to the rest of the playerbase a little while after too but because people are going to be releasing all of the information regardless does it really matter at this point if DE does or doesn't release it to the general public in the first place?

 

Basically it depends on what DE's goal with sharing this information with us is. Do they want feedback in a more controlled environment or what? Is it simply an early preview that may not be ready to be shown to everyone "officially"? Those are two things that, in my opinion, determine if some things should or should not be shared or advertised to everyone by DE specifically.

 

(I'm not sure what your question to the f2p community was)

Should the early information really be withheld from the free to play players? <=== This was my question to Community players, under the premise that it leaks anyway. On here, I have been met with mostly positive reinforcement, but on the game, almost everyone vocal opposed the idea.

I am glad to get your opinion, and I share in it wholeheartedly. ^^

[Shewpdanewb]

Shewp, the thing is, that system is already in place, as evident by the hundreds of nova rage threads that popped up from Community players... How did they get that knowledge? They were told of it by those that leak the information. I want equal viewing rights since everyone who wants to know can already find it, but voting rights to be behind a wall of somesort.

true, but there are also a lot of players who haven't got the slightest clue what's going on in the design council. They only learn what happened after the update which it involves. Let's say everyone can see at any given time what the design council is up to. Party A doesn't like what is going on and starts to rant on the forums. Party B hates party A and starts to rant about party A. They both rant because they know they can easily influence others. Now if they want to influence others everyone must like/hate the same idea, then DE will listen to them. By having the design council DE is keeping chaos under control. Also the way the council works right now is like a real life situation. Let's say you are making a park for everyone to enjoy. People like what you are doing so they donate money to you. Some people donate a lot of money. Then you decide that you want to make a change, but you can't decide between two options. Now you know some people invested a lot of money into your park so you wouldn't want to disappoint them. Who do you want to choose between the options? someone who just uses the park, or someone who believes in you and supports you? The you-person here is DE and the donators are founders. I'm not saying that the f2p people should be kept completely in the dark, they could show the design council forum archives, but not the actual design council forums. That would just bring a lot of disarray.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Alright, now this is going to make me look like a complete idiot, but bear with me, i'm half asleep. Does anyone know how I could make a poll, either in this thread or in another, so that the people themselves can voice their opinion on the topic on a numeric scale?

 

There are a few websites that you can make polls on (although idk which ones). After you make it, simply put the link down.

[Seraphyx]

Should the early information really be withheld from the free to play players? <=== This was my question to Community players, under the premise that it leaks anyway. On here, I have been met with mostly positive reinforcement, but on the game, almost everyone vocal opposed the idea.

I am glad to get your opinion, and I share in it wholeheartedly. ^^

Well one more thing I just thought of that might work. Open up the design council for public viewing, allow ONLY masters and grand masters to reply and participate in the voting process, everyone else basically has "read only" privileges.

 

While I think this might be the best idea in regards to opening up the information I don't know if it's something DE wants to do. I mean they did this for us masters and grand masters not everyone (or maybe they knew the information would leak anyways so they didn't care that it appears exclusive). It would also cause a million new complaint/praise threads in the general forums. There are already quite a lot of these kinds of threads and I don't know that doing this would really help.

 

http://pollcode.com/ for polls. Survey monkey is another one. I don't use them so I couldn't tell you which is better.

[LeucienWeaver]

true, but there are also a lot of players who haven't got the slightest clue what's going on in the design council. They only learn what happened after the update which it involves. Let's say everyone can see at any given time what the design council is up to. Party A doesn't like what is going on and starts to rant on the forums. Party B hates party A and starts to rant about party A. They both rant because they know they can easily influence others. Now if they want to influence others everyone must like/hate the same idea, then DE will listen to them. By having the design council DE is keeping chaos under control. Also the way the council works right now is like a real life situation. Let's say you are making a park for everyone to enjoy. People like what you are doing so they donate money to you. Some people donate a lot of money. Then you decide that you want to make a change, but you can't decide between two options. Now you know some people invested a lot of money into your park so you wouldn't want to disappoint them. Who do you want to choose between the options? someone who just uses the park, or someone who believes in you and supports you? The you-person here is DE and the donators are founders. I'm not saying that the f2p people should be kept completely in the dark, they could show the design council forum archives, but not the actual design council forums. That would just bring a lot of disarray.

Yes, but how much of that rage had spawned due to misinformation? If they had their information direct, maybe they wouldn't have been so upset? Also, they should learn to trust in DE, Nova's abilities turned out surprisingly well. I would reply in more length, but life is pulling me away.

[Shewpdanewb]

Yes, but how much of that rage had spawned due to misinformation? If they had their information direct, maybe they wouldn't have been so upset? Also, they should learn to trust in DE, Nova's abilities turned out surprisingly well. I would reply in more length, but life is pulling me away.

yes, they should learn to trust DE, but they don't. It is not in the human nature to trust one another. And indeed, a lot of rage has spawned due to misinformation, but a lot more would spawn if they knew the whole story. If something is vague and unclear people won't get as angry as when they know something for sure. If people know something for sure they will start to take action (in good and bad ways), but if they don't know for sure most of them will wait and see. Ignorance is a bliss because the less you know, the less you have to worry about.

[Mak_Gohae]

Yes, but how much of that rage had spawned due to misinformation? If they had their information direct, maybe they wouldn't have been so upset? Also, they should learn to trust in DE, Nova's abilities turned out surprisingly well. I would reply in more length, but life is pulling me away.

 

All the rage came from actual info leaked from the council.

What happened with Nova would basically be the exact result of giving the info from DC to everyone.

[Phatose]

20% off platinum would be totally unacceptable.

 

Never mind that you get so much platinum with Master or Grandmaster that you're not likely to ever need more, if Masters and Grand Masters are losing something that was exclusive, the replacement needs to be exclusive as well.  20% off platinum is not.

 

Now, change it to something like "Lets you change the tier of your void keys at will", and it starts to become a bit more appropriate.

[NalkorRN]

If I wasn't clear enough, I abhor the idea of making the elite status less meaningful. I prefer the separation between the greater and the lesser. 

 

Just like in life, you have the high class and the lower class.

Oh great, we got someone who's all for class status. Guess who else loved the ideas of lesser human beings? I shouldn't even have to name him and his supporters.

[Lumireaver]

Screw it, let everyone vote, but make DC votes count for one hundred normal votes. :U

[LeucienWeaver]

20% off platinum would be totally unacceptable.

 

Never mind that you get so much platinum with Master or Grandmaster that you're not likely to ever need more, if Masters and Grand Masters are losing something that was exclusive, the replacement needs to be exclusive as well.  20% off platinum is not.

 

Now, change it to something like "Lets you change the tier of your void keys at will", and it starts to become a bit more appropriate.

Personally, that seems like a feature that i'd like to see go to everyone, but I could understand cycling through and giving Dev Council members quality of life perks for a month or so, and then turning it into a feature for everyone or removing it, depending on what it was. Having Key modifiers in that we can turn x T1 into 1 T2 of the same type could be a good example of where this would start.

[Phatose]

Personally, that seems like a feature that i'd like to see go to everyone, but I could understand cycling through and giving Dev Council members quality of life perks for a month or so, and then turning it into a feature for everyone or removing it, depending on what it was. Having Key modifiers in that we can turn x T1 into 1 T2 of the same type could be a good example of where this would start.

 

We paid for exclusive, not "open to everybody".  If there's going to be an exchange, it's between DE and the DC, and it's gonna need to be exclusive as well.

 

"You paid for first class, but now everybody is first class, so too bad for you!" is not acceptable.

[LeucienWeaver]

Nonono. I mean once one feature has been out for a while and they have a replacement, it goes to everyone, and DC gets the new feature to replace it on exclusivity.

Edit: "Oh, someone accidentally double booked first class for your seat... I'm afraid you'll have to come to the Fortune 500 seats."

Edited July 19, 2013 by LeucienWeaver