Toxins Should Not Damage The Pod

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I like killing a toxic ancient but because its body was one little tiny pixel too close our pod is #*($%%@ by the poogas it leaves behind and we fail the mission. If only I could learn to play and magically vacuum up those clouds of toxins that I don't even notice half the time in the heat of a wave because of host lag and whatnot.

 

 

Ok. I had to come back just for this. DE works hard on their game. They gave us closed beta, and open beta. They work every day to keep their servers up, do live streams and awesome updates. And now you say they don't work hard? If you think it is cheap and not interesting, quit whining and leave.

Apparently all they "work hard on" is dangling shiny distractions over head so you don't notice the major flaws in the game.

Edited July 22, 2013 by DAWGUNITALPHA

[Boondorl]

Wow, this is pretty hilarious.

 

I have to agree with the OP on this one though. DE really is known for their cheap game mechanics (stun lock, anyone?).

 

It really shouldn't do damage to the pod. Managing Ancient Disruptors (yet another cheap enemy and now look like Healers as well) along with the waves of Toxics just asks for a whole new level of micromanaging. Fact is, if you don't have the right frame, you really won't get far. Vauban is a necessity. Not because he keeps back chargers (easy to rid of) and other minor infested, but because he keeps toxics out. Plus lol zero counterplay lel.

 

It's pretty much a known fact to me by now that DE sucks at balancing. Threads that come up (legitimate criticisms, to clarify) that say "this thing might be kinda cheap" get trolled into post hell with "omg l2p noob" and "wow if you don't like it, leave."

 

It's a gameplay feedback forum. Downvotes were removed for a reason. So no negative feedback, be it legitimate or not, could be downvoted into all hell. Everyone deserves a voice, even if the opinion they present is incredibly $&*&*#(%&.

 

Toxics can already down you in an instant. They have no counter play. They just run up to you and you take damage directly to your health. How @(*()$ boring of an enemy can you get? No seriously, the only time they actually attack you is to knock you down so they can stand next to you while you die before you even have a chance to get up (so balanced!). Then they can still kill you after they die. Now they need to do damage to the pod as well? Can't tell you how many times Toxics just #*($%%@ up the pod and there was nothing you could do about it. Of course! Silly me! I should've had a Vauban instead of a frame I actually want to play! Stupid me! Guess I'm a noob who needs to learn how to play!

Edited July 22, 2013 by Boondorl

[NexionSE]

add a range unit to infested and change so toxic gas dont do dmg to pod, still a single charger can 3 shot the pod that i am ok with as i can kill it where it stand and danger be gone right away. but a toxicA you have to kill before they reach it cuse pod is dead regardless if you kill it or not when it reach pod

[fatpig84]

Ah anyone remember the artifact missions pre- U9 ?

 

At one point we had like 12 toxics near the choke points. All level 70s to 80s. 

No Vauban. The Frame that saved everyone, my Excalibur with a 30% stretch mod.

 

And maxed Radial blind ;)

 

But yeah you have to keep them away, easier said then done.

Edited July 22, 2013 by fatpig84

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Ah anyone remember the artifact missions pre- U9 ?

 

At one point we had like 12 toxics near the choke points. All level 70s to 80s. 

No Vauban. The Frame that saved everyone, my Excalibur with a 30% stretch mod.

 

And maxed Radial blind ;)

 

But yeah you have to keep them away, easier said then done.

 

Well, Nyx was (and is) pretty good vs infested and people used her to control hordes of enemies (mostly Toxics since they are the biggest danger) along with Excalibur's Radial blind and Banshee's Sonic boom.

[Amistyrja]

inb4 l2p and don't let Toxics get to the pod comments.

 

l2p

 

don't let Toxics get to the pod

 

comments

[Endrance]

Thank god Radioactivity is a Toxic feature.

 

And thank god radioactivity can pass through almost all inanimate object like, maybe, the cryopod?

 

Not protecting anyone, couldn't care less. Just was a big hate around here on the "toxic killing a pod" subject, and i had to make that part clear.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Endrance

[Patrynio]

What about the grineer Napalm? That too hard too? NERF ALL DEM ENEMIES, BUFF ALL DEM FRAMES.

But seriously, I know the feeling of losing because of the green fart :( I wish they change it to something much more manageable, like adding a Blower/Vacuum secondary so that you can destroy the cloud. Just sayin'.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Patrynio

[Relkin]

I do have to agree with OP here.  Railroading players into using one or two frames isn't exactly stellar in terms of game design as it limits player freedom, tactics, and creativity all the while invalidating a great deal of what is currently considered content on defense missions which are currently the only way to viably farm a great deal of things such as void keys, mods, and fusion cores.

 

Essentially, if you get toxic spammed and clear them but it happens near the pod you stand a very real risk of the pod popping.  Vauban and Frosts ice statue ability are the only good counters to this.   

[fatpig84]

I do have to agree with OP here.  Railroading players into using one or two frames isn't exactly stellar in terms of game design as it limits player freedom, tactics, and creativity all the while invalidating a great deal of what is currently considered content on defense missions which are currently the only way to viably farm a great deal of things such as void keys, mods, and fusion cores.

 

Essentially, if you get toxic spammed and clear them but it happens near the pod you stand a very real risk of the pod popping.  Vauban and Frosts ice statue ability are the only good counters to this.   

 

Actually there are plenty of frames with great powers that work well against Infested.

Like Excalibur's Radial Blind or Rhino stomp (if it doesn't out right kill em).

 

But what makes Vauban insanely powerful is that Bastille doesn't just affect everything in the initial cast radius, it continues to affect NEW targets that enter the fray. That makes Bastille very attractive. 

Edited July 22, 2013 by fatpig84

[Cartire]

I completely agree that the toxics, ONCE DEAD, should do no damage to the pod.  Im fine with them doing damage to you, as you have a choice of leaving the toxic mess, or never going into it in the first place. 

 

But after wave 20 on xini, if a toxic happens to slip through and gets near the pod, its game over.  No last minute heroics can save you.  Pod almost died and you made a last second awesome kill.  Too bad.  It was game over all ready.

 

The mechanic against us is fine.  The mechanic against the pod is just not fun. 

[Pendragon1951]

I thought the same thing that you did about the pod getting killed by the toxins even after the Ancient was killed until I got the acrid clan pistol, it pretty much eats away anything. I took it to Mercury Caloris to start ranking it up and even unmodded it literally melted the Grineer away. I will have to assume based on the way the pistol works that the toxin in the pistol is based off of the toxins from the Ancients. If anything there should be an animation of the pod slowly melting away.  

[Saenol]

I suppose if the poison cloud is also highly caustic, that would make sense.

[LongDraw]

Okay, first off, you don't have toxic radioactivity.  Radioactive particles will emit radiation that breaks down molecules resulting in death because well.. you know the story of Humpty Dumpy.

 

Secondly, they are called Toxic Ancients, not Radioactive Ancients, not Acidic Ancients or anything that makes sense for permeating through a hermetically sealed cryopod.

 

And last, there is a way you can prevent the Toxic ancients from killing the pod.  Use bastille to collect them like a net, then cast vortex at a convergence point that will pull all of them that is also far enough from the pod so as to not spill the juice on the pod man's window.

[LunchBoxKilla]

Toxic may imply ACIDS ever think about that? It makes sense that that green cloud could be acidic and should be kept away from the cryo pod.

[ArmaMalum]

So instead of the normal "Vauban OP" or "Yeah I agree" I'll suggest an idea. What if, just to the pod/pillar/objective, toxics did a percent health damage? It would still punish groups for letting them through as it will ignore the shields but it would stop the losses due to a single toxic getting through on a high level.

[ScorpDK]

We had the same issue when they introduced the 20-wave defenses and the Grineer's Flame-Rockets would reduce the artifact to zero HP because the bloody thing exploded nearby and the AoE would not stop hitting the artifact... they ended up having to nerf the damage that defense artifacts receive from fire. Toxins are in need of a similar treatment. People can say over and over that it is possible to stop the Toxic Ancients from reaching the pod, but considering the amount of them that you get thrown at you in higher difficulty / waves, it becomes $&*&*#(%&ly difficult.

[LongDraw]

Toxic may imply ACIDS ever think about that? It makes sense that that green cloud could be acidic and should be kept away from the cryo pod.

Speaking from experience here??  **Just a note.  I want to be clear not that I am not advocating drinking any form of chemical to determine the side effects of consumption or exposure.  If if the person(s) are making utter fools of themselves.  Seriously.  I mean it.**

[Winterbraid]

Well, "Toxins" in Warframe generally seem to be supposedly a mixture of poison, acid, and nano-weapons - hence it makes sense that they harm robotics and machines as well, including the cryopod.

 

On top of that, just a single Toxic won't instantly kill the pod even on Xini - unless you reach the mid-to-high waves, in which case you aren't really SUPPOSED to be having an easy time in general (but you still do because Vauban).

 

Overall, I think Toxics are perfectly fine as they are. Sure they're punishing, but the truth is, if you nerf them (and/or Disruptors) the Infested will be even more of a joke than they already are.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Winterbraid

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I agree.

 

Upvoted.

 

It isn't exactly fair for the pod to be damaged by something you already killed.

 

Toxic Ancients should still damage the pod with toxins when they are alive, but the damage should stop once it is dead.

[Aspari]

Actually, toxic ancients killing the pod just by being around it makes sense. Maybe they aren't radiating poison. Maybe they're radiating corrosive gas. If it's corrosive gas, then anything it touches will corrode. That's why Toxic Ancients go straight for your health and ignore shields.

[CeePee]

You have frames like Banshee and Mag who can take the Toxics away from the pod.

 

Utilize those frames or don't let them get to the pod.

[dave021]

wow who cares what type of gas it is. Its not about making sense, its about a unbalanced mechanic. Op is right here, there should be a dmg cap for the poison gas.

[MJ12]

the Infested are really the most awfully designed faction in the history of faction design.

 

There are only two ways to fight them:

 

1. Have a high frustration tolerance and accept the fact that if you make even a single wrong move you'll be stunlocked and killed while helpless

 

2. Hide on a box, trivialize them forever.

 

Ideally you'd remove #2 at the same time you make it so that #1 is not necessary and they're actually legitimately fun to fight and don't rely on cheap shield-ignoring no-leadup no-counter attacks like the Toxic Ancient and Disruptors. But honestly, I'd take removing #1 and just making them super-easy, because no difficulty is better than bad difficulty.

 

Would I prefer that they're challenging, engaging, and fun? Sure.

 

But if DE can't deliver that I'd prefer them to be harmless and die without threatening me instead of them being frustrating and unfun. Because the former is a fun power fantasy, the latter is just frustrating and I'm not playing a game to be frustrated or annoyed.

[LasersGoPewPew]

remove the poison damage on death from toxic ancients completely and remove the energy drain completely, since BOTH of those ancients knock you on your &#! and lock you to the ground they shouldn't have ridiculus bonus affects since you already take forever to get up and can be knocked down while getting up. it wouldn't make the faction "easier" or more of a "joke" it would remove the "WTF JUST HIT ME!?!?" *loses all energy and shields from seemingly nothing and realizing the disruptor flanked you feeling.

 

they're too quiet for "Elite/Heavy" units, they should make loud stomping sounds when running and do some loud yell when they do their charging tackle.