Warframe Could Be A Better Game - Acknowledge The Problems, Create Solutions

[yOGZULA]

Let me start by saying I love warframe, it's a great idea and plays very well mechanically.  At the same time I see a lot of things wrong with it, if fixed, would make warframe an amazing game that it has the potential of being.  In this thread I will explain the problem and offer a solution.

 

 

Problem 1 - The game is no balanced around melee and guns.  If you want melee to be a viable it is necessary for warframes to take a significant amount of damage so that they can stay within close range.  If you can't tank any damage, melee isn't viable.  At the same time if you CAN tank damage, gunplay is dumbed down and there is no need to play safe or take cover.  This is the case in warframe.  

 

The solution - make it so that melee weapons continue to hit hard but nerf Warframe health.  At the same time make it so that melee attacks drain shields from enemies and add it to yourself, perhaps even a small amount of health.

 

what this does is makes it so that warframes are capable of tanking damage as long as they are actively meleeing.  It also means when attempting to melee you need to be smart about how you approach.  Most importantly it means that you won't be a tank when using a gun like is the current state of warframe.  In turn players will actually need to play smart and take cover or move quickly away from enemy fire.

 

 

 

Problem 2-  The missions are stale, boring and repetitive.  Warframe needs to play faster.  All of the tools are there and they are the most fun tools warframe has to offer.  Moving quickly and maneuvering like a ninja badass.  The problem is, nothing in the game encourages that.  Warframe shouldn't feel like a sandbox where you can go around in each level killing every enemy and barrel and taking your sweet time to get to the end, especially when doors need to be opened with multiple people.  There should be things in place to encourage players to move quickly.

 

For instance, Instead of the current boring missions replace them with missions like this:

 

high profile enemy target is trying to make it to an escape pod and the Tenno must stop him before he does.  In this mission you pursue a fleeing enemy and have to stay close or keep up with him to kill/capture him otherwise he escapes and you fail the mission.

 

Make it so that a breach in the station is draining oxygen, or the station will explode, or toxic gas is filling the station and you need to escape in a certain time.

 

The point here is that there needs to be a system in place, wether through missions or other incentive, that encourages players to move quickly through levels utilizing the mobility that's build into their warframe.  This game needs a niche and a direction and this is it.  a FPS game where you're a highly mobile ninja robot speeding through levels and accomplishing tasks while pressured by the clock

 

 

 

These two things are my largest concerns, will post more itt if others agree

 

[123Olympian]

True, note this is beta.

[BoompigXD]

I think the best direction for Warframe to go is a Bullet Hell Shooter.

 

Eh?

[Quamobrem]

Please no on the clock thing. Some people like playing methodically. Nightmare Mode and the occasional exploding ship are annoying enough as it is for us.

[RoboDoge]

Instead of bringing us refurbished...ehm, new content DE should fix the AI and bugs that are present at the moment. Maybe some gameplay tweaks also and no more prime weapons and stuff that gets boring in 2 days.

Edited July 23, 2013 by RoboDog

[Paprika]

Funny how nobody has replied to this yet. Both suggestions are interesting. This is my first impression, and I haven't taken time to think about the suggestions in detail. Your second suggestion is the basis of a fun game mode possibility.

 

At the moment, I don't have to many things to say.

 

EDIT: Wow. replies came in right as I was typing. Anyways, having looked through them, Quamobrem makes an interesting point. The rusher vs explorer scenario. What are your thoughts on that?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Paprika

[SoulEchelon]

 

Problem 1 - The game is no balanced around melee and guns.  If you want melee to be a viable it is necessary for warframes to take a significant amount of damage so that they can stay within close range.  If you can't tank any damage, melee isn't viable.  At the same time if you CAN tank damage, gunplay is dumbed down and there is no need to play safe or take cover.  This is the case in warframe.  

 

The solution - make it so that melee weapons continue to hit hard but nerf Warframe health.  At the same time make it so that melee attacks drain shields from enemies and add it to yourself, perhaps even a small amount of health.

 

what this does is makes it so that warframes are capable of tanking damage as long as they are actively meleeing.  It also means when attempting to melee you need to be smart about how you approach.  Most importantly it means that you won't be a tank when using a gun like is the current state of warframe.  In turn players will actually need to play smart and take cover or move quickly away from enemy fire.

 

 

There's already a solution for this. Use a frame that best handles certain situations. Caster like frames with lowish shields/hp or low armor are best for ranged fighting. There aren't that many Mags out there that will actively jump into a group of enemies and melee them with their Scindo. But tankier frames like Saryn, Rhino, and Ash are made for these types of battles. Introducing a system where you drain the hp/shields of your enemies with each melee attack would only end up overpowering the already tankier frames. THAT sort of ability sounds like either a mod or a new ability for a new warframe (There is supposedly a necromancer warframe that was being voted on. Sounds like that ability could fit that warframe.)

 

 

Problem 2-  The missions are stale, boring and repetitive.  Warframe needs to play faster.  All of the tools are there and they are the most fun tools warframe has to offer.  Moving quickly and maneuvering like a ninja badass.  The problem is, nothing in the game encourages that.  Warframe shouldn't feel like a sandbox where you can go around in each level killing every enemy and barrel and taking your sweet time to get to the end, especially when doors need to be opened with multiple people.  There should be things in place to encourage players to move quickly.

 

For instance, Instead of the current boring missions replace them with missions like this:

 

high profile enemy target is trying to make it to an escape pod and the Tenno must stop him before he does.  In this mission you pursue a fleeing enemy and have to stay close or keep up with him to kill/capture him otherwise he escapes and you fail the mission.

 

Make it so that a breach in the station is draining oxygen, or the station will explode, or toxic gas is filling the station and you need to escape in a certain time.

 

The point here is that there needs to be a system in place, wether through missions or other incentive, that encourages players to move quickly through levels utilizing the mobility that's build into their warframe.  This game needs a niche and a direction and this is it.  a FPS game where you're a highly mobile ninja robot speeding through levels and accomplishing tasks while pressured by the clock

 

Once again, solution has already been implemented (or is being worked on). Nightmare mode. Not only that, in certain sabotage missions, destroying the core will start a count down.

 

Adding new missions is always a good idea, but there are some (everyone) that need to farm missions to gain the necessary mats for their equipment. Not only that, we already have a HUGE problem with people constantly rushing missions and leaving their team behind. What you're proposing are things that would make this problem worse. Maybe if it was solo only, but in group play, team work means being patient, not flying through missions.

Edited July 23, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[DeatH-ReapeR]

Well I can agree with some part, but the clock thing you suggested ?????

 

Remove that and your idea is okay.

 

Since I can see that your a rusher, I am once in awhile also, but we should remember that there is also people who like to scavange the place.

Make it something like that if you complete it in X amount of time, WHILE also killing a certain amount of enemies(So people don't just ignore the scenery) anwyays if you do that and complete it in that time, then you will get some kind of ressource bonus, equivilant to what it would get from scavenging. (Ofc. scavenging should give more per run).

[Dussack]

I like the idea of the pursuit type of mission I had been thinking of that one myself.

 

I'm not usually a rusher but having to vary the play style in different ways would keep things fresher for longer (and force people out of frost and rhino every now and then)

Edited July 23, 2013 by Dussack

[Angius]

1. There are some frames able to tank in meele - Rhino with his IS, Frost with high durability, Volt with his high shields and Speed ability, Trinity with autohealing...

 

2. Yo are trying to force playstyle on us. You are trying to force us to rush/speedkill the mission. What if I need some resources, and I need to break every crata I can find? What if I want to explore some more to find secret routes? What if - that's the most important thing - jst DON'T WANT TO rush the whole mission? Maybe I like to stare at landscapes on Corpus planets?

[RX3_Zero]

I think the best direction for Warframe to go is a Bullet Hell Shooter.

 

Eh?

well i think you want a game with looks more like gunz online(much more faster and with a lot of melee fights), like said Boompig,i perfer a game more similiar to mass efect,that is why i join this game.i dont' think developer ll' turn so much the direction of the game.

[yOGZULA]

There's already a solution for this. Use a frame that best handles certain situations. Caster like frames with lowish shields/hp or low armor are best for ranged fighting. There aren't that many Mags out there that will actively jump into a group of enemies and melee them with their Scindo. But tankier frames like Saryn, Rhino, and Ash are made for these types of battles. Introducing a system where you drain the hp/shields of your enemies with each melee attack would only end up overpowering the already tankier frames. THAT sort of ability sounds like either a mod or a new ability for a new warframe (There is supposedly a necromancer warframe that was being voted on. Sounds like that ability could fit that warframe.)

 

 

 

Once again, solution has already been implemented (or is being worked on). Nightmare mode. Not only that, in certain sabotage missions, destroying the core will start a count down.

 

Adding new missions is always a good idea, but there are some (everyone) that need to farm missions to gain the necessary mats for their equipment. Not only that, we already have a HUGE problem with people constantly rushing missions and leaving their team behind. What you're proposing are things that would make this problem worse. Maybe if it was solo only, but in group play, team work means being patient, not flying through missions.

 

Regarding the different types of warframes having different roles, some being tankier than others, that's fine and i have no problem with that.  Even still, there should be some kind of thought and strategy when it comes to meleeing not just allowing a warframe to be a damage sponge and be near invincible for any duration of time with the press of a button.  I do have a problem with the warframe rhino - I don't think he fits the theme of the game well.  I think this game should be about speed and mobility, which he sacrifices to be a giant meatshield.  It tears the direction of the game from going one way to being locked into this alternate path where playstyles like that are viable.  

 

That said, I don't have a problem with a 'tank' warframe.  I do not think it should have reduced speed though.  Speed is what makes warframe so unique.  If you need to nerf a tank, nerf their damage, not speed, not in this game.  

 

farming crates and lockers for materials... isn't fun.  Does anyone actually think it's fun to do that as opposed to playing a mission?  Alternatively you could be rewarded based on how quickly you complete a mission.  The faster you do it, the greater the reward.  I understand right now rushing is a problem but that's because nothing in the game incentivizes rushing.  

 

Bear in mind, I'm not saying the game should give incentive to rush past every enemy and obstacle but it already has a GREAT system to regroup people where it matters.  Doors or elevators requiring 2+ players to open.  Right before these doors or elevators have the bulk of the enemies or  a mini boss or something of the sort.  Or perhaps add doors or evlevators that can only be activated upon every enemy in the room being killed.  This way you will move quickly through the level, regroup to wipe a room, then move on.

 

Team work doesn't neccesarily mean being patient... it just means working together.  You can move fast and work together and in a game like this that would make it a more intense and unique experience.  

[Cerebrawl]

Biggest problems with melee: Lack of power, tons of enemies that knockdown or stagger you if you get in melee range.

The solution is buffing melee weapons and toning down every enemy and their brother having a stagger/knockdown.

 

One of the biggest problems slowing gameplay down is the stamina system. This is especially aggravating when you run out of stamina at just the wrong moment, like oh say when you need to wallrun, and you drop down into the abyss, and then do it another 5 times because the game spawns you at the edge, with forward momentum. Also the controls are often unresponsive, or do the wrong thing(try to sprint - crap I didn't want to roll, nooooooo, don't make me fall down there!)

[yOGZULA]

1. There are some frames able to tank in meele - Rhino with his IS, Frost with high durability, Volt with his high shields and Speed ability, Trinity with autohealing...

 

2. Yo are trying to force playstyle on us. You are trying to force us to rush/speedkill the mission. What if I need some resources, and I need to break every crata I can find? What if I want to explore some more to find secret routes? What if - that's the most important thing - jst DON'T WANT TO rush the whole mission? Maybe I like to stare at landscapes on Corpus planets?

 

1 - im aware that there are, i think these frames need to be adjusted in the way they tank is all.

 

2 - What i'm suggesting isn't a 'force' of playstyle.  It's a direction.  Most every game has direction like this.  You aren't able to start a farm and have babies and a wife in warframe, that isn't the devs forcing you to play a certain way... it's the game having a purpose and a direction that isn't that.  Like i said before, if you need resources the game could award them in ways that doesn't involve farming crates because that really isn't fun.

 

I'm also not saying every mission should have a countdown until you auto lose.  There should be -some- mission objectives that are timed.  Others that, perhaps completing it quickly enough, earns the players BONUS rewards.  "move fast or die" is just one incentive, there are a lot of other ways to incentivize people to move quickly.

 

Again, this is just my personal opinion,  I feel like the most fun aspect of this game is the mobility and that if the game put more focus on that it would be highly unique and interesting and would have a direction unlike any other game

[RX3_Zero]

Biggest problems with melee: Lack of power, tons of enemies that knockdown or stagger you if you get in melee range.

The solution is buffing melee weapons and toning down every enemy and their brother having a stagger/knockdown.

 

One of the biggest problems slowing gameplay down is the stamina system. This is especially aggravating when you run out of stamina at just the wrong moment, like oh say when you need to wallrun, and you drop down into the abyss, and then do it another 5 times because the game spawns you at the edge, with forward momentum. Also the controls are often unresponsive, or do the wrong thing(try to sprint - crap I didn't want to roll, nooooooo, don't make me fall down there!)

"One of the biggest problems slowing gameplay down is the stamina system." yes but increasing stamia, volt abilitie"speed" used to rush by the way you want ll' be useless.

I think a diferent map with a more enclosed space ll' allow a rush mission,without change all the game.

Edited July 24, 2013 by RX3_Zero

[Slaskia]

I'd rather not have anything else enforce a 'rusher' mentality, tyvm (With how Nightmare mode is/was set up...ugh).  Plus, be careful with the claims of 'smashing crates is not fun': you only speak for yourself here.  I, for one, happen to enjoy smashing every crate I see, to see what I get (even those that have a chance to blow up in my face in the Void).

 

Yes, I'm an explorer...one that will resist, strongly, anything that would impede my preferred playstyle. I don't play missions like Defense and Rescue for that reason...and I certainly would refuse to play any mission type that forces 'rushing' unto me (heck, I hate it when sabotage missions end up with a countdown timer).

 

That said, I'm not against more options for other players that don't like my playstyle:  just don't force me to play them with you, OK?

[yOGZULA]

I'd rather not have anything else enforce a 'rusher' mentality, tyvm (With how Nightmare mode is/was set up...ugh).  Plus, be careful with the claims of 'smashing crates is not fun': you only speak for yourself here.  I, for one, happen to enjoy smashing every crate I see, to see what I get (even those that have a chance to blow up in my face in the Void).

 

Yes, I'm an explorer...one that will resist, strongly, anything that would impede my preferred playstyle. I don't play missions like Defense and Rescue for that reason...and I certainly would refuse to play any mission type that forces 'rushing' unto me (heck, I hate it when sabotage missions end up with a countdown timer).

 

That said, I'm not against more options for other players that don't like my playstyle:  just don't force me to play them with you, OK?

 

If it becomes about different modes, fine, I completely understand your concern.  I'm saying I think this should be the main direction of the game or the default mode.  I think an explorer mode could stay in place for players like you who prefer that, but I just think you're the minority... and if you're not then the game should change direction again in another way to better accommodate exploring because it certainly doesn't incentivize that much either.

[SoulEchelon]

Regarding the different types of warframes having different roles, some being tankier than others, that's fine and i have no problem with that.  Even still, there should be some kind of thought and strategy when it comes to meleeing not just allowing a warframe to be a damage sponge and be near invincible for any duration of time with the press of a button.  I do have a problem with the warframe rhino - I don't think he fits the theme of the game well.  I think this game should be about speed and mobility, which he sacrifices to be a giant meatshield.  It tears the direction of the game from going one way to being locked into this alternate path where playstyles like that are viable.  

 

Don't have time to answer the rest, sorry. But though I do agree Rhino isn't my preferred warframe either for about the same reasons, I disagree that all melee is, is tanking everything. There IS alot of skill involved, especially for frames that don't have a "damage sponge" ability. Saryn, though having Molt, doesn't have anything that will buff her armor. So if I want to melee with her, I have to know when and how to do it. It's not as simple as running into a group of enemies.

 

Hell, I've done the same with Nova recently - gave her Hate so she could fly into a group of enemies, knock them down with that jump attack before they can damage her too much, then Molecular Prime em. A few shots or heavy swipe = everything explodes. <--- that's tactic right there, not bullet sponging. Not every player (or every warframe) focuses on tanking in order to enjoy melee. Another move I did recently -  Wormhole just above a group of enemies, bring that Hate down on their heads, MP, kaboom. Pretty fun.

[Zhoyzu]

your second idea contains many flaws

[yOGZULA]

your second idea contains many flaws

 

thanks for your insightful contribution

[Quamobrem]

If you want to make the mobility more useful, then that might be interesting. Just don't do it in a way that punishes exploration.

 

You remember the Prince of Persia games for the PS2 and Gamecube? Sands of Time, Warrior Within, and Two Thrones? If so, do you remember how fun the combat was, entirely because it was designed to encourage highly mobile, acrobatic fighting? That's what Warframe needs for melee combat, and would be the best way to emphasize the whole "Ninja mobility" aspect. I'd absolutely love to be able to run up a wall and jump off, landing with my sword in a Grineer's neck, or quickly jump from enemy to enemy, cutting them all apart as I go. There's already a little of that in the slide attack, but thus far melee is just too clumsy for a game that's supposed to be about ninjas.

 

It could also maybe use a little better platforming, and less clumsy controls in what we've already got. Again, the devs need to go play through those Prince of Persia games.

[fatpig84]

TL;DR

 

Basically the poster wants nightmare mode as default, since it emphasis speed.

At least the original variant did.

 

Losing 1.5% health a second and it will bleed up till you die.

It was better than the second iteration that bleed you out insanely fast.

Then people whined and now you can't actually die in NM mode since you will always have 1% health left. :/

 

I fought Hyena solo during the 1st iteration of nightmare and I actually had to watch my health.

Edited July 24, 2013 by fatpig84

[Solaurus]

Only thing I agree with is more mission types.

[Askobin]

Instead of bringing us refurbished...ehm, new content DE should fix the AI and bugs that are present at the moment. Maybe some gameplay tweaks also and no more prime weapons and stuff that gets boring in 2 days.

 

update 9 was a complete failure. sadly. they even shot themselfes in the foot by the bug where rare mats drop like common mats and common mats drop rare... while at the same time, offering mats for Money hahahaha... so fail. i quit gaming til update 11... dont think they will hook me back or fix they damage update 9 has caused til U11... sadly all the mimimi from attention @#&amp;*( rtards ruin the game.

 

but all the suggestions are great ideas! but things like that should be elective... for those who actually want to play without challange, or better rewards. or like a ninja... im sorry for them... but they are part of our community as well ;_;

[SoulEchelon]

update 9 was a complete failure. sadly. they even shot themselfes in the foot by the bug where rare mats drop like common mats and common mats drop rare... while at the same time, offering mats for Money hahahaha... so fail. i quit gaming til update 11... dont think they will hook me back or fix they damage update 9 has caused til U11... sadly all the mimimi from attention @#&*( rtards ruin the game.

 

but all the suggestions are great ideas! but things like that should be elective... for those who actually want to play without challange, or better rewards. or like a ninja... im sorry for them... but they are part of our community as well ;_;

 

That horse of yours is pretty high. You shouldn't give horses drugs.