Paris prime needs a buff

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

6 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Paris Prime is simply a puncture based Dread with slightly less crit chance. If you think either of these bows need a buff then you aren't using them properly as they both can destroy enemies well into sortie 3 and beyond with appropriately placed shots.

Not remotely as good as dread. Not even close.

[DreamsmithJane]

5 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Not remotely as good as dread. Not even close.

That horse's bones are dust by now. Long story short, at all relevant levels (including sortie), Paris Prime is better against Grineer and Corpus, while Dread is better against Infested and Corrupted, and both bows have since been outclassed by the sheer speed, raw damage, and Blight effect of Rakta Cernos.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

33 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

That horse's bones are dust by now. Long story short, at all relevant levels (including sortie), Paris Prime is better against Grineer and Corpus, while Dread is better against Infested and Corrupted, and both bows have since been outclassed by the sheer speed, raw damage, and Blight effect of Rakta Cernos.

Actually, i feel daikyu out classes all bows, including Lenz. Paris prime needs a new nitch. We have a slash bow, a puncture bow, several variants of an impact bow, as well as a blast bow and an impact/toxic bow...Paris needs something different. Maybe give paris an equal impaxt, slash, puncture buff. 

75 impact

75 puncture

75 slash

Increase its crit damage a bit and bam! U have a sentient killer.

[TheBrsrkr]

On 10/8/2017 at 3:46 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

PAris prime only needs a sound change so it doesnt sound like someone preparing a nasty spit.

CHRUUUUUUUUUICK

PTUI

Yes please, one of the most out  of place sounds in the game for years. 

[Chipputer]

11 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Not remotely as good as dread. Not even close.

"remotely"

I don't think you know what this word means. They both deal 200 damage and both have enough crit to reach orange crit status with one mod. One is puncture, better for armor, and one is slash, better for flesh. You are statistically and demonstrably wrong.

4 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

i feel daikyu out classes all bows

Daikyu can only do this with a Riven. The speed at which it fires actually severely handicaps its damage output in firefights.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

One is puncture, better for armor, and one is slash, better for flesh. You are statistically and demonstrably wrong.

...except he's not.

Dread is statistically and demonstrably better against armor.

It might not say that on "Warframe Builder" or where ever people get there (usually incorrect) information, but it's still true and can be tested in game.

Slash procs bypass armor. This will quickly eclipse any bonus damage you are receiving from puncture having a bonus against armor.

It will take less shots with a properly built Dread to kill a lv 150 heavy gunner.

The only time the Paris might compete against armor is against something that is immune to status. Don't know. Never tested it.

The myth that the Paris and Dread are in competition with one another comes from a time in the game where status was ignored and wasn't understood.

I personally do not care if the Paris gets a buff.

I don't exactly understand why anyone would argue against it...  but don't spread misinformation.

The numbers are irrelevant if they do not produce in game results.

[Chipputer]

26 minutes ago, (Xbox One)INe Saninus said:

...except he's not.

Except he is.
Both of them work well within their niches. You're coming at this from the perspective of someone who is attacking enemies with armor but have had their armor reduced, it seems, because the Dread's initial damage isn't that great against armored enemies whereas the Paris Prime won't suffer nearly as hard.

A normally built Dread will only have a 1/3 chance of landing a proc, in the first place, let alone the calculation to figure out if you get an elemental versus a slash proc. Against armored enemies, headshotting them, rolling for just plain crits (Dread will orange crit twice as often as Paris Prime however) you will see similar numbers. They are competitors.

Slash status is powerful but the status actually needs to land. Unless you give up overall damage to bank on those slash procs your Dread will not be landing a slash proc with every arrow and, likely, will take multiple shots before you even get one. That's not even to start with how underwhelming the Dread procs actually are. Unless you're running Heavy Caliber you're rolling a Slash proc off of 906.3 damage. Fanged Fusillade doesn't add to those procs.

Don't overestimate the slash procs it can put out.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Chipputer

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

10 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Don't overestimate the slash procs it can put out

I'm not.

I went in and tested multiple builds on both before I ever replied to you.

Both weapons are fully forma'd. No reduction in armor. No rivens were used.

Paris averaged 20 shots to kill.

Dread averaged around 12.

I ran at least 3 times on each build.

Give me a Paris build that competes with a properly built Dread against armor. I'll test it tonight when I get off work.

[Desamos]

On 10/7/2017 at 1:24 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im thinking increase its based crit damage from 2.0 to 2.5x

Increase its damage from

35 slash to 100 slash

5 impact to 0 impact

160 puncture to 200 puncture

Increase its fire rate from

1.00 to 1.07

We increase its status chance from

20% to 25%

And give it an alt fire that allows u to use it as a melee weapon with stats as...

1.0 attk speed

1.7 channelng damg

70% block

55.5 puncture

60.5 impact

Crit chance 13%

Crit multiplier 1.9

Status chance 29%

 

 

I suggested Paris prime be used as a melee which would be cool for solo missions and going just bow (like how some go just melee loadouts). But everyone made fun of me with the idea, even after I tried defending it with countless good counter examples.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

8 hours ago, Chipputer said:

"remotely"

I don't think you know what this word means. They both deal 200 damage and both have enough crit to reach orange crit status with one mod. One is puncture, better for armor, and one is slash, better for flesh. You are statistically and demonstrably wrong.

Daikyu can only do this with a Riven. The speed at which it fires actually severely handicaps its damage output in firefights.

Actually, with a gas proc, it doesn't need a second shot.

As far as paris vs dread... Slash procs bypass armor. The damage difference of slash dread vs puncture armor boost paris... Dread kills 140 bombard in half the time it takes paris prime.

Edited October 9, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[rapt0rman]

I'd heavily recommend trying viral + continuous misery on the dread.

The thing about bombards is that they have considerably less health than heavy gunners. When building for slash procs, stuff that can bleed a 140 eximi bombard in seconds can still take around 4x the effort on a 140 eximi heavy gunner, it's worth it to test all builds on both.

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by rapt0rman

[(PSN)alexismartinez14]

Idk, Paris Prime can easily reach 100% cc. Compare it to the Cernos Prime, the paris prime can out perform it. Ithnk the only buff it would need is a slightly better charge speed. Perhaps it needs a slight boost in raw damage. But overall the Paris Prime isn't in dire need of a buff.

[(PSN)Chel-El]

I avoid charging it now because of that weird sound effect 

This caused me to be a faster bowman, ironically 

Gotta shoot the arrow quickly or listen to the punishment!

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 hours ago, (PS4)alexismartinez14 said:

Idk, Paris Prime can easily reach 100% cc. Compare it to the Cernos Prime, the paris prime can out perform it. Ithnk the only buff it would need is a slightly better charge speed. Perhaps it needs a slight boost in raw damage. But overall the Paris Prime isn't in dire need of a buff.

Its needs a large base dmg buff. Or more spread between damage types.

Edited October 10, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[BuckStagarr]

Okay so even with a decent riven the Paris Prime is beaten by the Akstiletto Prime. Like what even.? 

I am going to elaborate on my experiences comparing different bows in Warframe. 

For the longest time I have been an avid fan of the Paris Prime. One could say I have a bias towards it. The one thing I cannot accept is the overwhelming power gap that exists between the Lenz and the Paris. 

NOW BEFORE I AM SPAMMED WITH COMMENTS SAYING THAT THE LENZ IS A HEAVY BOW, I AM WELL AWARE. 

As I was saying I am extremely, disappointed in how bad the Paris has aged upon the release if stronger enemies. Before i could remember Paris being strong with Split Chamber and the old crit build... It was among the top tier bows in the game. Now my fully modded,  with a riven mod, Paris Prime,  cannot even beat a lenz with 5 mods Split Chamber and Vital Sense excluded. And the Lenz is practically a launcher. But get this,  bows share the same ammo type as snipers. I have to conserve ammo,  before i kill one enemy and that's if don't have bad aim.

Even tested in the simulacrum. Where enemies can be easily immobilized. And headshot damage calculated. 

Lenz on the other hand gets a automatic ammo converter. Sure you have six shots but you'll be fine with Vacuum.

So what is wrong here? 

I can deal with the Lenz being a launcher. And having all of these great attributes,  but don't take away the reward of using single shot bows.

More and more i feel as if these single shot non-launcher bows are getting over shadowed. Sniper rifles are catching up and with their scope and accuracy without worry of projectile flight speed and distance affected critical damage buffs. It is becoming apparent that bows are not becoming endgame worthy. With sheer hard work I try to make this work.

But the differences  are difficult to ignore. Aim glide with a bow is difficult enough. Accounting for every enemy movment, plus each shot having to be charged, you just will not do that well. How often do you get enemies lining up just perfectly to get that straight through shot with the innate punch through? 

Dont debuff anything, but please add something to make using these weapons last.

They shouldn't be shelved because something stronger has come. The Paris doesn't even have to be the strongest. But come on! Puncture that does not do what it's supposed to,  and a 45% crit chance that the Lenz and Dread have so much better.  That little 5% difference has so much of an effect on the build in general. 

Comparatively the Dread and Lenz can reach 125% crit with the Point Strike mod. 

PARIS gets the short end if the stick and gets 45% equalling 112.5%.

Okay now also you know how the stalker drops the Dread bp? 

Again i find myself holding 4 Dread Bps, yet for all my void fissure runs i can only ever collect parts for ONE Paris Prime. 

Okay so now the Paris Prime is both much harder ro get rather than having to get invaded by the stalker and killing him. 

See this pattern? 

New, stronger bow comes out and then bam! Veteran bow users can't enjoy the game against automatic weaponry, launchers, AND EITHER THAT OR IT'S JUST TOO WEAK TO BRING ON TO HIGHER LEVELS. With out needing multi stat riven mods to carry it through.

THE IMAGE IT GIVES TO PEOPLE IS THAT THIS BOW IS A BEGINNER BOW.

Now if that was the case why do we still have MK1 Paris and Non-Prime Paris? It doesnt make sense. These are beginner bows and yet people see Prime Bows as a joke, even the Cernos with its Spreadshot is a nice mechanic and all but it does not make any difference if you are forced to bench these weapons once you have to hit level 50+ enemies. 

It's downright sad. 

I had to rant. And i felt like this was where it was maybe okay. 

My mind is all over the place but one thing i am sure i want to get across. 

Bows need a rework Paris Prime especially.

Retain what keeps the bows being bows.  but improve upon some other aspects that could be done better. 

Maybe the charge system needs a rework. Add levels so that damage doesn't just seem like everything relies on a full charge. 

Playing around with Alt-fire Mechanics maybe have different arrow types.  

Ammo actual pickups for bows that isn't just a sniper ammo pack renamed bow ammo. I mean arrows, i really thought that was obvious enough. Hey maybe even making arrows retrievable. Thats a great idea. 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much room for improvement. 

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by YoshiHiiragi
Rant