KazeKarma Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Stalker squad vs high level players in a 4v4 showdown... anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Stalker squad vs high level players in a 4v4 showdown... anyone? No... Stalker should be scarier... like Amnesia scary to newbie characters, and something of an epic to high level players alone... like the most advanced AI physically possible to use all the abilities of a Tenno in ways we couldn't even imagine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriarch Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Its true, hes completely lacking as far as the fear factor goes. A simple way to fix that would be to buff him again, BUT make it so that if you're under a certain mastery (say 2 or 3) you wouldn't be insta-killed by him. Instead you would be revivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexinator Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 he needs so many buffs... Really? Wow, I must suck then lol. He took out our entire team three out of the 5 times I encountered him. An Acrid really helps though lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToeSama Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Personally, I think the Stalker is a rather uninspired enemy altogether. The Devs won't come clean about anything related to him, and he seems to simply be another Tenno who decided to go all turn coat and work for the enemies as a hired gun. What, did the Lotus reject him on prom night or something? Grow up, emo kid... Being turned into a farm target was the best thing that could've happened to the Stalker. His existence at the very least is justifiable until the day more info on him becomes available. I'm not so worried about his difficulty myself. Every enemy in the game needs to be given a once over to make them an actual threat instead of a target waiting to be slain. Just because the Stalker's suppose to be some edgy bounty hunting random event enemy doesn't make him special when matched up against the entire game and it's crappy AI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alohoe Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I feel like you are expected a very different reaction then players would probably have. Some new guys would probably see the lights blinking and ignore it. The dude with the message may or may not even try to tell his allies - assuming they can see the messages too - and then Stalker would very, very likely blindside the new players and kill one or more of them considering he does great damage to a weak Warframe, You need to make sure you aren't asking the player to do something impossible. For that matter, you want to try to make sure you aren't making them FEEL like it is impossible since that can be just as bad. Your example of L4D2 actually supports what I'm saying. A Jockey can be a real issue for a new player - but really any gun in the game makes very short work of it. The game also practically blows your screen up with notifications pointing out an ally in trouble. New players are taught very,very quickly how the enemy works and how to beat it. I agree with you here but I would like to add,imo, there is nothing wrong with getting your face pushed in even as a new player. It gives you something to work towards. "What just happened?" turns into " Well, I will be ready next time." Just my two pennies. The dynamic content idea you have is great and I would love to see this soon in game. Edited July 25, 2013 by Alohoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I agree with you here but I would like to add,imo, there is nothing wrong with getting your face pushed in even as a new player. It gives you something to work towards. "What just happened?" turns into " Well, I will be ready next time." Just my two pennies. The dynamic content idea you have is great and I would love to see this soon in game. Losing isn't really the problem - it is about whether or not you CAN win within the normal flow of Gameplay. (Which basically means without resorting to some dirty trick that prevent him from fighting you properly.) Keep in mind that I'm not really arguing Stalker buffs in general are a bad idea - only that you have to tread very lightly when you talk in that sense considering new players have to meet him too currently. If Stalker shows up as is and kills a player that is no problem. Anyone in this thread could tell you that it should be possible to take him out with just about any weapon so long as you are on the ball. You can lose - but you can always win too. Buff him too much and you risk that changing. There will be a point where you will simply lose. This is problematic. You don't want that. I believe Stalker is in a decent place right now. I think DE should add different types of events that are more difficult. Maybe even new Stalker characters with stronger abilities. There are people here on the forums who've mentioned they'd like Stalker to be part of a team - maybe he could be. The Stalker we know now could be the weakest member of a crew of Mercenary Warframes - leading all the way up to a particularly dangerous leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetwing Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Once you have snow globe you no longer need fear the stalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Once you have snow globe you no longer need fear the stalker. Of course - that is if he doesn't happen to use Slash Dash on you. Then fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Met a stalker today. On a low level nightmare mission. Got one-slash-dashed. F*** SENTINELS. Snitches is what they are :C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infected_Chicken Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Stalker can't even aim with his Dread.. http://youtu.be/evk60FR5z4g?t=17s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticVice777 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) A possible way to "buff" the Stalker is to remove our ability to use cover to glitch his AI. Basically, when the lights flicker, your Warframe would be "teleported" into the old tutorial (or an open, shadowy space), kneeling and facing the Stalker (who's kneeling in the center). All other mechanics remain the same, although the Stalker's Dread, Despair, and Hate need to be used more (and be level-scaled). The Stalker himself may or may not need new abilities as well. Outcomes would be: 1) Win - The Stalker will die, saying his parting words. He has a chance of dropping one of the blueprints for one of his weapons. The lights flicker and you are "teleported" back to the mission. 2) Failure - The Stalker kneels, states his parting words, and disappears. The lights flicker again and you are "teleported" back to the mission, dead on arrival. Thus, a revive would be needed. Basically, you would have a duel with the Stalker, akin to PvP and without the timer, that represent a battle between minds. Winning means you keep your mind, losing means you're essentially a living corpse. The downside to this is the fact that enemies from within the mission can't exactly interfere, which does make Stalker fights interesting. Edited July 25, 2013 by ChaoticVice777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus154 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) It is in poor taste to allow a new player to come up against an enemy he just can't take on in a fair fight. That is poor gameplay design. That is why I believe that instead of making Stalker stronger the game needs more types of events that happen in later missions that are all more difficult. Imagine if there was a weaker version of the boss Phorid that could spawn in groups of 2 or 3 during a mission - you'd reach a locked doorway and Lotus would warn you that her Scans reveal something really big on the other side. Things like this. Enemies that qualify as 'Mini-boss' status that can show up under a whole number of different conditions. But then again it depends on the situation. In the situation it'd be terrible design, so I agree. Edited July 25, 2013 by Zeus154 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 What point do you figure that makes? That isn't even particularly related. Look That fight with Vile isn't really a boss. It isn't a really even a fight - it is just part of the story meant to set up what comes next. It is a loss the Devs make you experience. A really recent example of that same idea is Metal Gear Solid: Revengeance. I happen to love it - that kind of thing is AWESOME. But.. Stalker is nothing like that. It isn't a scripted event or part of the story. If he is made to be ridiculously strong compared to you he'll just show up and take a dump on you out of the blue and then leave. There is no lesson learned or anything useful gained from the experience if he just shows up and craps on you while you are still rocking your early equipment. The idea that 'Stalker' should be 'scary' to any player is useless - it is better and more important that he is enjoyable to encounter. This means being careful with new guys since they can meet him. You wouldn't set Stalker up to be like that. It isn't a story sequence - it is a Miniboss. A Random event. Different things come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuroNekoXlll Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Stalker can't even aim with his Dread.. http://youtu.be/evk60FR5z4g?t=17s THAT BLUEPRINT.,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) My only problem with the stalker is he's a loot-pinata that can OHK almost any frame except a pure tank with both Redirection and Vitality with his slash dash. I was on my formad and potatoed Vauban with a level 11 Redirection mod, fighting a stalker at range in a T3 void mission pretty easily. His arrows don't hurt my shields too much, and any time he misses my shields get back up to full. I'm strafing away and having an easy gunfight, killed him this way a dozen+ times, have a Hate, Despair and Dread and had never died to him before this time... In the middle of the fight, he's around half health and I have completely full health and shields, he teleports right next to me and instantly does a slash dash right after his teleport ends, and it one-hits me. Full health. Full shields. Level 11 Redirection albeit no Vitality. Average firefight to BOOM rightnexttome BOOM dead. That was bullS#&$. Even if he had brought me to 1 life, and then finished me off with an arrow, I'd have been a little OK with it. But anything that completely one-shots you from full health and shields on a level 30 frame with a shield mod is just stupid =/ But he's so weak...other than being able to magically one-shot you occasionally...that reeks of imbalance. Edited July 25, 2013 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusNine Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 If Stalker shows up as is and kills a player that is no problem. Anyone in this thread could tell you that it should be possible to take him out with just about any weapon so long as you are on the ball. You can lose - but you can always win too. Buff him too much and you risk that changing. There will be a point where you will simply lose. This is problematic. You don't want that. Have you tried fighting him without mods equipped? Stalker and most of the game are practically unwinnable if you aren't equipped for it. Which is itself the reason he is a flawed enemy with flawed difficulty. You can scale his level based on the target, so that he'll be a suitable threat for both early and late game characters. Except that you'd need to scale based on a player's damage output with mods, not by mastery rank or equipment level. The cruel irony is that neither of those numbers contribute to a player's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) What point do you figure that makes? That isn't even particularly related. Look That fight with Vile isn't really a boss. It isn't a really even a fight - it is just part of the story meant to set up what comes next. It is a loss the Devs make you experience. A really recent example of that same idea is Metal Gear Solid: Revengeance. I happen to love it - that kind of thing is AWESOME. But.. Stalker is nothing like that. It isn't a scripted event or part of the story. If he is made to be ridiculously strong compared to you he'll just show up and take a dump on you out of the blue and then leave. There is no lesson learned or anything useful gained from the experience if he just shows up and craps on you while you are still rocking your early equipment. The idea that 'Stalker' should be 'scary' to any player is useless - it is better and more important that he is enjoyable to encounter. This means being careful with new guys since they can meet him. You wouldn't set Stalker up to be like that. It isn't a story sequence - it is a Miniboss. A Random event. Different things come into play. I still feel the Stalker should at least be used similar to SA-X from Metroid fusion. For example lets say you are a newbie. Your in a room and suddenly the lights flicker, a red door suddenly opens and Stalker walks through the room. Even if the other enemies see you if he doesn't see you at all he will simply walk towards a random door and vanish after the door closes behind him,(the game will simply remove him if he manages to reach the other door without seeing you) If he does see you. At least you will see him first hopefully then you will get the chance to run away from him instead of him randomly appearing and slash dashing you out of no where. Which should be the point. He should be scary to anyone using low level gear. If you can't fight him don't You should run from him. If you can fight him... Similar to the final battle between Samus and SA-X then you may do so. Also Stalker needs a rework. He shouldn't be friends with anyone infact have you seen that glitch where Stalker starts to help you instead of trying to kill you? Like randomly killing enemies till he dies? Here is what DE should do. Take the idea that no Tenno has ever become fully infested and chuck it out the window. Make it so the Stalker is what happens when an infested becomes perfect in every way as a Tenno. Say it hunts randomly walking through rooms, breaking things, killing everyone. Giving you the chance to hide from it as it wreaks havoc, or run for your life, or even fight it all the while if your ready. As they say Infested can travel... What if the Stalker as an infested that has become infested, but not lost its intelligence... like it is what it is.. lost its ability to know friend from foe.. and just gone into instinct mode kill and feed on everything mode so the infested may spread, or in a similar manner to SA-X have it so the Stalker hunts for the greatest threats to the infested cause by walking around looking for its next prey. This would give Stalker for more power as a fear factor since people will more then likely stay out of his way when he goes around his business. This would take rushing, and looting to a whole new level with the fear a Stalker could walk by. Infact this way it wouldn't be a Stalker cause since we kill him so much... If he was a single Stalker that was so POWERFUL with such a DANGEROUSLY SKILLED AI making it so you would want to avoid him till your gear was around 25-30 with good mods. Then he could be a TRUE single character with people actually killing him a lot less, and giving him personality without truly doing anything for him like the bosses. Another idea I made up for the Stalker is that what if he was a tube baby/Clone of Nadia/Nemesis from her preserved body that was used by the Orokin to make a superior warrior. However it went horribly wrong so they sealed away the monster-evil-thing-in-a-warframe in a cryopod, and then sealed it in a vault. Which later was opened by the grineer/Corpus/maybe infested... and went on a rampage due to a lack of intelligence and only knowing how to wreak havoc... It was an uncontrollable beast... a failure and a success by the Orokin... it couldn't be controlled... but it was VASTLY superior to the Tenno, just the same as how Nemesis has always been far more superior to Hayden Tenno... The only reason Hayden won was intelligence... something Nemesis/Nadia seemed to lack, or possibly it was just dumb luck Hayden won. This would give it lore, and also make it more terrifying... Edited July 25, 2013 by Arlayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuroNekoXlll Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Have you tried fighting him without mods equipped? Stalker and most of the game are practically unwinnable if you aren't equipped for it. Which is itself the reason he is a flawed enemy with flawed difficulty. You can scale his level based on the target, so that he'll be a suitable threat for both early and late game characters. Except that you'd need to scale based on a player's damage output with mods, not by mastery rank or equipment level. The cruel irony is that neither of those numbers contribute to a player's performance. solution... make the the test so it can actually measure a players performance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 The SA-X thing is sorta appealing. You should refine that idea Arlayn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I couldpush my point even further... Stalker is a boss in Dark Sector that tries to kill you because your a threat... They could reinvent that stalker again as a dangerous foe hunting you... with equal amount of terror, and stress that was created by Stalker from Dark Sector (HARDEST BOSS IN THE WHOLE GAME!!! it made me want to tiipii DE HQ) Edited July 25, 2013 by Arlayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAYO Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Well at least to new players who first start, he is still terrorizing as EFF. All my friends who just started playing freak out in terror and excitement. It's a nice mix of emotions knowing they will die but it might drop something good if they succeed. So far, many new players die easily to stalker. His slash dash is powerful if you are not careful. I think it's fine and we, the older players just have gotten used to him that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetwing Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 The SA-X thing is sorta appealing. You should refine that idea Arlayn. Yes, give us more of the SA-Xy tiems, very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuroNekoXlll Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 -snip- uuumm.. no i like him being a rogue tenno assassin rather than some mindless death machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 You know... its sad they make a new enemy named Stalker and hes lame... Compared to the original enemy Stalker who was the HARDEST BOSS IN THE WHOLE GAME and should've been THE FINAL!!! Because of how hard he was he made the final boss easy. Its a disgrace to the Stalker name for such a weak enemy to exists carrying the name of the most powerful enemy in Dark Sector. We need to have Stalker from Dark Sector vs. Stalker from Warframe... Pronto... So the Dark Sector Stalker could replace him... (btw those projectiles kill in one hit... Stalker(Warframe) would be screwed lol...) lol... imagine you open the door to save the hostage and Stalker is in there with them, kills them and then tries to kill you as a boss fight lol... now that would be a far better path to take stalker. Make a legit boss fight for him in a mission that is a rescue mission but quickly turns into a Boss fight, or it could just be a surprise thing in any rescue mission. Now there is a character building path... making Stalker's character seem more brutal and ruthless... Would be even more hilarious if Stalker is a figment of our imagination and Lotus gets angry at us cause we killed the Hostage while hallucinating the Stalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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