22.0.2 Transference restriction is a change for the worse

[Epsik-kun]

As per:

On 10/14/2017 at 4:57 AM, [DE]Megan said:

To reduce unintended Transference movement chaining, one can only use Transference once after a jump and must land before being able to use Transference again. 

Attempting to use Transference for the second time during a single jump results in the "ability isn't ready" response.

I can understand DE wanting to limit mobility options as switching between operator and frame resets double/bullet jump options of the latter. Although, I can't understand precisely why an input-heavy resource-wasting "movement-chaining" that requires a considerable amount of effort to pull off is a bad thing for the game - given it provides a layer of depth to the gameplay without breaking anything that isn't already broken - but that's not my decision to make.

However, the current implementation goes against the previously promoted idea of "keeping momentum while switching" - especially the part regarding bullet jump. Because currently, bullet jumping with frame and switching to operator results in a weird situation when Operator with their limited air-options and fall damage vulnerability gets stuck somewhere high in the air without an ability to switch back to the frame. That makes the whole "bullet jump into Transference" action quite questionable in terms of usability, despite being one of the promoted "selling points" of the Focus rework.

I would suggest removing the restriction that prevents Operators from switching back to Frame - meaning player should be able to do

[Jump >Ttransference to Operator >Ttransference to Frame]

and only then should Transference usage be blocked.

 

As of 22.2.2 the change was implemented. Thank you very much.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Epsik-kun

[NeithanDiniem]

There would be little to no reason to swap to operator while airborn just to swap back before landing. It was changed because you could chain it and get unintended forward momentum which would let you travel farther forward in one jump. When you go to land just void walk and youll take zero damage on landing.

[Epsik-kun]

28 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

There would be little to no reason to swap to operator while airborn just to swap back before landing.

There is. Bullet jump into Operator mode gives an ability to cover distance quickly with Void Dashes and returning back to the Frame mode allows the player to continue combat immediately. Which is a great way of making Operators genuinely useful. Meanwhile, there's literally no reason for putting your Operator into the air.

28 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

It was changed because you could chain it and get unintended forward momentum which would let you travel farther forward in one jump.

I do agree that effectively infinite jump length achieved with a spam of Transference swaps isn't a good thing, but limiting it resulted in other movement options being restricted too for no good reason.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Epsik-kun

[Teridax68]

I really feel like the nerf went about it the wrong way. If the issue is with the momentum gained through Transference, then a better nerf would simply be to have the Operator and Warframe conserve each other's momentum, rather than amplify it, or at least only provide the momentum boost once before landing. DE did an amazing job in making the transition so much smoother, and really seemed intent on making Operator mode less clunky, which is why I feel this kind of change shoots that whole project in the foot.

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, Epsik-kun said:

There is. Bullet jump into Operator mode gives an ability to cover distance quickly with Void Dashes and returning back to the Frame mode allows the player to continue combat immediately. Which is a great way of making Operators genuinely useful. Meanwhile, there literally no reason for putting your Operator into the air.

I do agree that effectively infinite jump length achieved with a spam of Transference swaps isn't a good thing, but limiting it resulted in other movement options being restricted too for no good reason.

There is no reason to change it now though. You are just as capable of changing to frame mode after you land because when moving downward after a fall you are highly unlikely to be able to do much combat-wise in your frame other than a ground slam or slide attack. You still have the void dash for movement just like you wanted before. You still get the carried over momentum from the frame to the operator. All you have to do is land to swap back.

[Ventura_Highway]

8 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Which is a great way of making Operators genuinely useful.

I'd been doing that for a long time, parking Volt somewhere, teleporting into the middle of a bunch of enemies and casting Overload. It's one hell of an entrance, I'll tell ya.

I think with enough Zenurik this won't be too much of a problem, because I can just make sure to end a dash sequence with movement towards the ground, but I think not allowing us to re-frame in midair is unnecessary awkwardness and I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion.

 

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You are just as capable of changing to frame mode after you land because when moving downward after a fall you are highly unlikely to be able to do much combat-wise in your frame other than a ground slam or slide attack.

But that's false. "ground slam or slide attack" is already much more than what operator has. Aside from that, the frame also has aerial attacks, glide, rolls, better slides, and - most importantly - frame abilities. There's no reason for me to bullet jump and do a switch to the Operator instead of switching on the ground and doing my thing from there. And it's just a layer of synergy between the modes getting removed.

[LSG501]

Yeah got to be honest since the 'changes' I've been getting no end of issues with stuck transference, not being able to do it etc, and it's really annoying.  It's also another 'misadvertised' feature of PoE because we can no longer do what you were showing in the previews etc.... bit like using archwing etc...

It doesn't help when you use zenurik and due to the stupid void dash to get energy regen, which doesn't seem to activate on me unless my frame is in the bubble, I need to pop in and out of my frame to trigger it. 

[DrBorris]

I don't get the change... at all. Yes, it was unintended, but what did it hurt? When you have Zephyr, Titania, Nova and even Excal to an extent there is no reason to nerf a skill based form of movement. 

[NeithanDiniem]

6 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah got to be honest since the 'changes' I've been getting no end of issues with stuck transference, not being able to do it etc, and it's really annoying.  It's also another 'misadvertised' feature of PoE because we can no longer do what you were showing in the previews etc.... bit like using archwing etc...

It doesn't help when you use zenurik and due to the stupid void dash to get energy regen, which doesn't seem to activate on me unless my frame is in the bubble, I need to pop in and out of my frame to trigger it. 

The previews were always shown as a work in progress, and the Zenurik void dash was always how it was explained to work.

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

I don't get the change... at all. Yes, it was unintended, but what did it hurt? When you have Zephyr, Titania, Nova and even Excal to an extent there is no reason to nerf a skill based form of movement. 

vastly extended distance with transference chaining to where you could travel several times the normal bullet jump/roll/aim glide/slide distance was unintended. Skill or not, if it is not intended gameplay and it is easily fixed then it gets quickly removed before it becomes a problem. This is easily beyond the thousandth time an unintended aspect of the game has been changed, many of which "required skill" to pull off but none the less was not how it was designed to work.

[DrBorris]

3 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

vastly extended distance with transference chaining to where you could travel several times the normal bullet jump/roll/aim glide/slide distance was unintended. Skill or not, if it is not intended gameplay and it is easily fixed then it gets quickly removed before it becomes a problem. This is easily beyond the thousandth time an unintended aspect of the game has been changed, many of which "required skill" to pull off but none the less was not how it was designed to work.

Having your momentum be multiplied is one thing, but just being able to chain Operator and bullet jumps is another. Why not just fix the momentum exploit and leave the ability to chain movement together? The intention was to make Operator and Warframe a cohesive team. 

[LSG501]

 

4 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

The previews were always shown as a work in progress, and the Zenurik void dash was always how it was explained to work.

Doesn't mean that it's the right approach to stuff though....having to constantly void dash is already getting 'tiresome' for me and others in my clan and it's not just for zenurik. 

[Epsik-kun]

I would also say that while Warframe -> Operator transfer is indeed quite smooth, the opposite one is not. Transfering from Operator to a Frame takes a considerable amount of time during which the frame is locked in place - as opposed to getting momentum boost to create an illusion of a fluid movement.

Of course, I'm talking here about half of a second at most, but it's long enough to notice it - especially during aerial movement. Overall, it makes Transference feel clunkier than it should be.

[RedGlow]

It is mind boggling to me that some people still expect consistency, coherence and professionalism from DE after all this time.

[Epsik-kun]

A-a-and I still think Transference could use better fluidity.