Waybound Focus Nodes and Their Implications On Focus Farming (Over 140 MORE Days)

[ZukaBazuka]

4 hours ago, Khalinda said:

@True_Naeblis

 

I unlocked all the waybounds and it took me nowhere near 500 days. More like 100 something. Just with the ocasional Adaro farming and lots of eidolon shards which I have plenty. The focus farming is really not as bad as people make it to be.

Play smart not hard.

The time of this topic, the cost for all the nodes had way higher cost than currently. Plus you can share your pool now among all trees which reduced the grind a lot.

[Toran]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Khalinda:

@True_Naeblis

 

I unlocked all the waybounds and it took me nowhere near 500 days. More like 100 something. Just with the ocasional Adaro farming and lots of eidolon shards which I have plenty. The focus farming is really not as bad as people make it to be.

Play smart not hard.

The whole thread is outdated since the introduction of Triple Eidolon Captures. Before the winter holidays 2017, I didn't care much about Focus but then I went full throttle and bought affinity boosters for two months, capping Focus (250k) every single day with Eidolon captures on top. After a month or so, I had all waybound skills unlocked already.

Once Arcanes switched to Eidolons, I stopped on Focus farming altogether (that was some ten days before the last booster ended). 2x3 Eidolon captures give 310k affinity already, more if you got a good team. Making several millions at weekends is no problem. After less than three months I had all focus schools unlocked (but for Void Radiance ;).

With just 15 night cycles per week (2x3+) at the lowest yield of 310k (pure 2x3) focus per run, you need less than three months to unlock the whole Focus wheel!

Total Focus points (52,660,819) divided by 4,650,000 affinty per week (15 x 310,000) equal 11.32 weeks, not counting in affinity points from focus lenses and more than the 2x3 runs in one night cycle.

 

And that's a thing everyone can do, if she/he wants to! You don't need high MR, nor a badass amp, nor a riven modded sniper rifle to even begin.

All you need:

• MR 5 and prequests done
• a standard Blessing Trinity with good health (vitality)
• an archwing (Itzal preferred)
• some experience from the Teralyst hunts to know the drill
• good knowledge of Grineer camps and the lure spots (as getting lures and keeping them healthy is your main job).
• some energy pizzas (team energy restores preferred).
• a working meta team with one or two experienced hunters (void strike)
• a computer to handle the Plains

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Toran

[True_Naeblis]

@Toran

Eid hunting isn't "just playing the game and letting it happen" as the guy I quoted was suggesting. Eid farms require a lot more than just casual playing, they are supposed to be end game, and if nothing else they definitely aren't effortless. Just 15 night cycles a week? That is not remotely casual. The need to have a meta team with experienced hunters shows exactly how not casual what you're describing is. Plains don't interest me. I tried to get into it, but when I saw the grind that goes with everything it just became an afterthought. I can't even enjoy fishing as simply something fun to do because of the insistence that it be a part of an active enemy zone as the only means to try it.

Anyway, no one who's just playing casually is going to focus cap in three months. Funneling all players into one method of focus farming if they want to have any hope of unlocking their waybounds and even just the important elements in a reasonable period of time, and forcing grind to get it is not good design. It's not enjoyable. I hope that at some point DE figures out that allowing players to engage with each other both socially and across a wider variety of useful content will keep them playing longer, more often, and with less burnout than forced grind. I guess we shall see.

[(PSN)Raygun_X_]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:01 AM, -..- said:

So I finally unbound one of the nodes after doing the, in my opinion, greatest boss fight that DE has designed and retrieving a Brilliant Eidolon Shard. The problem here is how Waybound nodes work. Previously, I was under the naive impression that the nodes would simply just work on all trees as long as you had them activated in their respective tree. I was poorly mistaken. This is what it looks like after you unbind a node.

https://i.imgur.com/kcVTYSY.jpg

Notice that it 1. is unactivated and 2. requires the full amount of pool in order to activate it. That means in order to activate the waybound nodes in every tree, you need to grind all that extra focus to increase your pool for all of them. Let's take a look at the complete trees in the beta that the streamers showed us.

https://imgur.com/a/9XnC5

Now let's do some math. Keep in mind that some of the pool changes have actually increased since this beta. For instance, Mind Sprint now requires 11 pool at max. However, since I don't have all the exact numbers I'll just use what the beta gave us. Also, in order to estimate the additional focus needed, I used the summation 75000+750n from 1 to the additional pool value. It's a very rough lowball estimate. The real number is likely much higher.

Madurai -

Base waybound nodes pool total: 23

Additional pool required: 63

Estimated additional focus required: 6237000

Zenurik -

Base waybound nodes pool total: 18

Additional pool required: 68

Estimated additional focus required: 6859500

Naramon -

Base waybound nodes pool total: 14

Additional pool required: 72

Estimated additional focus required: 7371000

Vazarin -

Base waybound nodes pool total: 17

Additional pool required: 69

Estimated additional focus required: 6986250

Unairu -

Base waybound nodes pool total: 14

Additional pool required: 72

Estimated additional focus required: 7371000

Total additional focus required to have all nodes maxed in all schools after unlocking all waybound nodes: 34824750

At a cap of 250k focus per day, that's around 140 days of extra farming. These are on top of the estimated 280 days it takes to max out the current trees without the waybound nodes.

Now, I know what you're thinking. "But Ecksplisit, no one actually needs to do all of this. 90% of the nodes are garbage and people will probably only use Madurai for DPS and Zenurik for support." But what happens if DE actually decides to make the rest of the nodes useful? What if they make it so it's required that we have different focus trees for future content? Then everyone will be clamoring to get focus farming changed.

However, we've already seen from things like log in rewards and Hema that DE is hesitant to change things that people have invested large amounts of time into. We need to put Focus gain changes on a higher priority than they are now, or else the problem will fester and we'll have no choice but to commit 400+ days of our lives focus farming every single day for an hour without missing a day, lest we miss out on precious XP. And those new players that join a couple years from now? Yeah they'll never even have a chance to enjoy the game when they hear they need to farm an hour a day for over an entire year. They'll just drop it and move on.

My suggestion? Increase gains by making the Convergence multiplier the base, remove that annoying little yellow ball, and flat out remove the cap. It already takes an absurd amount of time to farm all of this without the cap. It takes me around an hour of bere to reach 250k. 400+ hours farming for a single part of the content is already ridiculous enough. Being forced to split that into an hour sessions every single day is worse than Runescape level masochistic grinding.

So please guys, while DE is in this period of time where they're willing to change mechanics, let's make Focus great again.

TL;DR Waybound nodes increase focus farming by over 140 days. That's wack. Let's band together to convince DE to make focus farming not wack anymore.

They all share the same pool.. since only 1 tree can be active at a time plus the waybounds...

You way over estimated the necessary pool size.

[Gandergear]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Raygun_X_ said:

They all share the same pool.. since only 1 tree can be active at a time plus the waybounds...

You way over estimated the necessary pool size.

yo bro this post is right after POE dropped I seriously doubt with Shrine anyone has a problem farming focus anymore.

[Toran]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb True_Naeblis:

@Toran

Eid hunting isn't "just playing the game and letting it happen" as the guy I quoted was suggesting. Eid farms require a lot more than just casual playing, they are supposed to be end game, and if nothing else they definitely aren't effortless. Just 15 night cycles a week? That is not remotely casual. The need to have a meta team with experienced hunters shows exactly how not casual what you're describing is. Plains don't interest me. I tried to get into it, but when I saw the grind that goes with everything it just became an afterthought. I can't even enjoy fishing as simply something fun to do because of the insistence that it be a part of an active enemy zone as the only means to try it.

Anyway, no one who's just playing casually is going to focus cap in three months. Funneling all players into one method of focus farming if they want to have any hope of unlocking their waybounds and even just the important elements in a reasonable period of time, and forcing grind to get it is not good design. It's not enjoyable. I hope that at some point DE figures out that allowing players to engage with each other both socially and across a wider variety of useful content will keep them playing longer, more often, and with less burnout than forced grind. I guess we shall see.

At no point was I claiming it to be casual. Focus isn't for the casual, but it has improved greatly. I just was showing that it's absolutely possible to farm that stuff successfully, even at low MR and with crappy equipment. If plains don't interest you at all, tough luck - happy lens farming.

There are enough people who are interested in PoE, however and Trinity is the perfect starting frame to the big game hunting without having to max out equipment first - have an Archwing, get lures, keep them and the team alive and nobody will complain about your mote amp or a sucky primary weapon.

If you play just casual, why bother with Focus or complain about it in the first place? Get what interests you the most in time, ignore the rest.

All I wanted to point out is, that there's a way to ignore daily focus farming by doing the far more rewarding Triple Eidolon runs (not to mention all the nice Arcanes on top!), even at very early stages of a Tenno's career. It's a valid option.

 

 

 

[K2k4]

This is a valid issue still in my opinion.  I spent 2 months running 250k focus every day plus 1-2 eidolon teralyst runs per night (given I didn't do tridolons until after I completed all of the waybounds) and to me the most awful thing about it was hitting 250k each day.

 Why did it suck? Because I have to do it separately from my regular mission runs because in order to reach this goal you either need to focus on stealth (banshee is best, then sleep equinox, then ivara) or just repeat the same mission type over and over again with a dps frame.  You can't switch out unless you have focus lenses for the one school on other frames. It takes away from the time I would spend doing other things in game like rift runs or farming other frames. 

So I suggest the following options would make this better:

A. Remove focus orbs and just make passive focus game 16x easier.

B. Remove school on focus lenses.  This would require the focus pool also being untied from the schools.  Then you could farm for focus and spend it on any tree you like.  While it wouldn't solve all problems, it would make it tons easier to gear up multiple frames for general focus farming.

C. Remove the focus cap or drastically reduce costs of all focus skills.  Ultimately the goal would be to reduce the amount of time I'm focus farming by either allowing me to power level it in a week so I'm not spending so friggin long trying to hit cap every day until the end of time.

I hate to keep the necro of this thread going but this has been a point of contention for me for months now.

[purdo84]

As someone who has unlocked all waybounds and enough pool to use them with all schools I'm going to say it's fine the way it is. I started playing a little after the poe dropped and I think I've got the focus can maybe no more than 5 times. Eidolon farming is where it's at. You can easily net 300k per night cycle even in public matchmaking if you bring a meta frame and a good sniper. Groups I've been in are very switched on these days and a double triple cap is easily achievable. Best part is all the focus you get from brilliant and radiant shards is uncapped. Screw farming focus with sleep equinox or silence banshee. Eidolons is where you need to be.

[True_Naeblis]

10 hours ago, Toran said:

At no point was I claiming it to be casual. Focus isn't for the casual, but it has improved greatly. I just was showing that it's absolutely possible to farm that stuff successfully, even at low MR and with crappy equipment. If plains don't interest you at all, tough luck - happy lens farming.

There are enough people who are interested in PoE, however and Trinity is the perfect starting frame to the big game hunting without having to max out equipment first - have an Archwing, get lures, keep them and the team alive and nobody will complain about your mote amp or a sucky primary weapon.

If you play just casual, why bother with Focus or complain about it in the first place? Get what interests you the most in time, ignore the rest.

All I wanted to point out is, that there's a way to ignore daily focus farming by doing the far more rewarding Triple Eidolon runs (not to mention all the nice Arcanes on top!), even at very early stages of a Tenno's career. It's a valid option.

 

 

 

The guy I was quoting, after which you responded to me, was saying that Focus is something that you can play passively to level and still benefit from. You can't, and I was pointing that out. I get that there are ways to max it out in a few months by grinding Eids. Eids are the new "end game", though, and not something that players can take on casually by just enjoying the zones they like, as they like.

I would love to see the orbs go away, and a steady focus system that is gained simply via affinity as it is now, by missions completed, perhaps even with some reward at each tier of MR, with it given retroactively to players who already have some or max MR rank.

Anyway, I have no issue with you pointing out that it can be farmed in a faster manner. My initial response was to someone who necro'd this thread to rant in a way that wasn't based in reality.

[WolvenEdge]

On 4/10/2018 at 6:27 PM, macbox said:

Why don't you guys realize this is something that should be viewed as a passive leveling system. Most games you level up and then you speed hundreds of hours playing without anymore real progression. I don't even worry about farming focus, just grab the buff when its near and play the game. It's nice checking the focus tree every couple weeks and realizing you have enough points to level something up. Just view it as a nice little reward for continuing to play the game and it gives a sense that you are still progressing. Anyways just my two cents. I think it would suck if DE lowered the amount of grind because we would all max out and have no sense of progression left. Seems like most gamers these days want everything right now and I personally miss the old school way of doing things which is what makes WF so refreshing for me,

Again; I, and most of the people in this chat, don't mind grind.

What we do mind is having an entire system locked behind prohibitively high numbers that the average player will not reach in literal years playing the game.

The 140 more days calculated is based off of the max cap for focus earned, nothing more... and people who play as you reccommend will not likely reach that cap unless they play nonstop for ten hours a day.

I would like to be able to play with the mechanics being offered somethime in the next decade, and I'm barely exaggerating here.

 

In the meantime, breaking down eidolon shards for extra focus that doesn't count toward your cap was a great addition; those with the gumption to grind it out can do exactly that, though it will still take a while.

[T_4C0C4_T]

Well, with the new update that just came out Beasts Of The Sanctuary, with an affinity booster, sometimes you get lucky and get over 30k focus with one focus orb. Most I got with one orb was 36k!!!

[BahamutKaiser]

I pretty much consider Focus an embellishment, the game lacks actual playable content, so a lot of progress is throttled to hell, but I don't need to grind progress, if the gameplay is no longer fun, than it's time to play something else.

Personally, I'd prefer more story and world immersion, more actual content. And for the love of god, please make believable villains, these cackling fools are nauseating.

[WolvenEdge]

On 4/25/2018 at 3:53 PM, BahamutKaiser said:

I pretty much consider Focus an embellishment, the game lacks actual playable content, so a lot of progress is throttled to hell, but I don't need to grind progress, if the gameplay is no longer fun, than it's time to play something else.

Personally, I'd prefer more story and world immersion, more actual content. And for the love of god, please make believable villains, these cackling fools are nauseating.

The villains are believeable in context; they're incomplete leftovers, not people from a normal story as you seem to be expecting. Grineer are insane due to genetic corrosion, Corpus are raised to worship money and have next to no sense of ethics running alongside, the Orokin were ancient dictators who started the whole mess by deciding to modify their underlings for specific tasks and obsessive traits... and then treated them like crap. Meanwhile, the flood ... the zerg ... er... excuse me, the Infested are self explanatory.

You're saying the story sucks while not paying any attention to the story; DE has focused on worldbuilding more than railroading, but a straight plotline is in progress. In case you missed it, go play around on Uranus for a while, look and listen for a glowy blue singing thing, and scan it.

[BahamutKaiser]

On 2018-04-28 at 1:19 PM, WolvenEdge said:

The villains are believeable in context; they're incomplete leftovers, not people from a normal story as you seem to be expecting. Grineer are insane due to genetic corrosion, Corpus are raised to worship money and have next to no sense of ethics running alongside, the Orokin were ancient dictators who started the whole mess by deciding to modify their underlings for specific tasks and obsessive traits... and then treated them like crap. Meanwhile, the flood ... the zerg ... er... excuse me, the Infested are self explanatory.

You're saying the story sucks while not paying any attention to the story; DE has focused on worldbuilding more than railroading, but a straight plotline is in progress. In case you missed it, go play around on Uranus for a while, look and listen for a glowy blue singing thing, and scan it.

Um, no, the villains are whatever the developers chose to fabricate as villains, and they are bad, so they should be reconned into something good. And in case you missed it, it's not an ongoing part of the gameplay.

[WolvenEdge]

3 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Um, no, the villains are whatever the developers chose to fabricate as villains...

Duh? That's how story-writing works. What you seem to be missing is that you can fabricate a backstory to make even the worst villain tropes make sense when taken in context.

3 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

 ...and they are bad...

I disagree, and you've yet to present a counter to my points that their somewhat simplistic and obsessive traits make sense in light of their origins. If you're going to debate me, then actually debate. That which is presented without evidence/argument may be dismissed without evidence/argument, I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Please don't prove I overestimated you.

3 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

...so they should be reconned into something good.

Such as? Now you've got me genuinely interested. Rewrite one of Warframes villains as you would like to see them. There's always room for improvement, and if I can see an improvement in story and lore cohesion in your character, I will readily adopt your stance on that character.

3 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

in case you missed it, it's not an ongoing part of the gameplay.

One word; Kuva.
Another few words; Vey Hek, Ghouls, Plains of Eidolon...
A few more; Index, Rathuum, Manic, Bursa, mutalist, Acolytes, Lynx, Razorback, Fomorian...
Even more; Battalyst, Terralyst, Conculyst, Vomvalist, Hydrolyst, Hunhow, Natah, Suda, Simaris... Operator... need I go on?

The bosses' influence, both past and present, pervades the world of Warframe, both directly and indirectly changing gameplay; in missions and varying mission types, in enemies and enemy classes, in both our and our opponents' weaponry, and in both singular and recurring events that change the game completely along the path of the story. If you slowed down and paid attention in game, you would notice a lot of this.

Blood and fire, why do I torture myself like this?

[Koshxs]

I'm not sure if I understood. What I've always known is that when you max a waybound all you need to do is add a brilliant eidolon shard and 1M focus to unlock it... and after that you'll have its benefits on your operator regardelss of which tree you have selected a the moment. But reading this... waht I understood is that after you use the brilliant shard and the 1M focus to unlock a waybound... you have to farm even more focus for a focus pool  to "really" activate the waybound? What?

If this is true... it's crazy. It doesn't make sense. One should be able to se the waybound once you unlock it. Why farm more to "activate" it a second time?!

Edited May 19, 2018 by Koshxs

[Klokwerkaos]

15 hours ago, Koshxs said:

I'm not sure if I understood. What I've always known is that when you max a waybound all you need to do is add a brilliant eidolon shard and 1M focus to unlock it... and after that you'll have its benefits on your operator regardelss of which tree you have selected a the moment. But reading this... waht I understood is that after you use the brilliant shard and the 1M focus to unlock a waybound... you have to farm even more focus for a focus pool  to "really" activate the waybound? What?

If this is true... it's crazy. It doesn't make sense. One should be able to se the waybound once you unlock it. Why farm more to "activate" it a second time?!

because it's not a permanent buff, since this lets you actually have greater customization over your trees since you can avoid using pool for an ability by not selecting it.

It works better that way.  It takes pool to activate.  If you're in a different tree, it starts as inactive.  You activate it if you want it, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to unlock unbound passives in trees you were using regularly 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Nef_Omnifarious]

I've been reading up a lot about this whole focus thing, because I apparently chose the worst possible school to start out as. Unairu. Apparently it's rubbish from all angles, and I was farming it entirely wrongly. After a few weeks, I have 50,000 focus. Not enough to unlock anything in the tree, other than 5% of damage enemies deal hurts them. Which even at 100%, is unable to kill a level 5 enemy, apparently. I had a Unairu lense on my Warframe, getting like 100 focus a mission just playing the game normally. Rip all my time... The tag line for the school sounded good, lol. Outlasting my enemies, but it turns out that Vazarin is actually the school for longevity, with its increased health, and health regen. Doubling armor, when your armor is only 11, is... yeah... Rippy pippy me.

[Klokwerkaos]

Dunno, I think earning it gives you something to do and a reason to play..  like the system was designed for.

The game is too easy!  The game is too hard!  It's too grind!  There is nothing for me to do!

These posts are rote, and you can time your watch by them.

No thanks, it's fine.  It's meant to be hard to grind out.  I did it, you can too.  And if you don't like how grindy it is, you know, you could get a booster.  Crazy right?