Ash Feedback

[(PSN)Crixus044]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

You're totally and utterly wrong, the Seeking Shurkinen & viral weapon setup easily carries Ash into the 1000 levels ;)

Also, Ivara's Artemis bow drops off way earlier...and to be clear, I'm saying this as someone who's favorite frame is Ivara. She has other advantages over Ash, but damage isn't one of them.

Given I never have to recast Prowl with Ivara...nope ;)

Loki sits in the middle between Ash and Ivara when it comes to how cumbersome stealth is. 

Ash is the damage stealth frame, Loki CC and Ivara is decent at both...and I'd argue her hard CC is actually stronger than Loki's. Neither Ivara nor Loki will beat Ash in terms of kills per second. 

Well, I have done this before, and I get your premise. Level 1000 Heavy Gunner has over 10.3 million Health. With Viral Proc, that's 5.2 million rounded up from specifics. Only real way you can take down enemies fast enough with that setup is a VERY powerful melee. Galatine Prime, our highest dps melee currently (from raw stats, not including special gameplay mechanics like Vulcan Blitz Jat Kittag) can achieve 9,467,399.51 dps for the first second of attacks with Cleaving Whirlwind Broken Bull Combo and all 4 status effects going, 4x combo counter, Blood Rush Condition Overload Hybrid Build, and stealth melee on first hit ever 4 seconds in place, although reaching these conditions takes about 4 seconds average to reach, thus I say at level 1000, it takes 4-5 seconds per enemy to take down. I can attest to this as I fight level 1000s on the daily and when it comes to builds, I know just about everything there is to know about how to optimize a build. I've seen this in action and it works as I think.

Taking this into account, Bladestorm has become totally useless for these guys thus the rwal discussion here is that blade storm needs some working on, fatal teleport is the best way to go for fast killing as I have said, although it doesn't always work for all enemies thus has its own issues, and seeking shuriken reaches a limit that although is very high, easily past level 1000, is still present and extremely punishing once you get to that fall off point. Also, doesn't feel very ninja-like to be using your throwing stars for armor stripping and needing a great sword to really get that massive damage, but it works. I went into a 4 hour Mot with some friends (Excalibur and Limbo), and fighting level 2500s, it took me about 20 seconds to take down a level 2500 heavy gunner while armor stripped (I used Pox) using my Nikana Prime. This will not suffice when it comes to survivals and kill speeds.

That's how large of a dps difference the Galatine Prime has to just about every other melee weapon, even though on paper, Nikana prime is only 33% less dps than galatine prime. Why this is the case is because invisibility is not as good of stealth as blinding or enemy sleeping is when it comes to melee dps. Only the first attack of an invisible warframe has a stealth multiplier, and the rest of the attacks for the next 4 seconds don't. This was a stealth nerf DE did back in July and has remained that way since. Thus high damage melee is best for stealth melee dps because of how it utilizes dps mainly on hard hits rather than high speed. Although this is another topic for another day, it ties into what I am talking about when it comes ash's viability and where his breaking point is. Bladestorm's breaking point sits around barely passing sortie level enemies. Teleport, endless scaling with CL Dagger, but still best scaling even without CL Dagger. Smoke Shadow/Screen, great dps with right weapons but mainly good for survival, endless scaling unless you mess up casts. Shuriken, only really good with augment or funky mechanics. Even with augment, only good with right weapon, which will still fall off in really high levels, as does anything based on pure damage alone. A chroma with a Pox will do better than an ash because of the dps difference and how easy it is to get armor off without needing an augment or 4xCP.

About Ivara, for an Ivara main, you really can't say much about dps for her, since navigator Zenistar is one of the best dps synergies in game. A synergy that works with many weapons. Artemis bow was just one example that I thought everyone would understand, but navigator with a low duration (not minimal) can make bows, lanka, zenistar, orvius, glaive prime, torid, or anything with a projectile, super powered, along with her headshot multiplier and stealth multiplier on thrown melee. It's really amazing for dps, and although I am not an Ivara main, I know just about everything there is to know about this game and I'm always creating and learning everyday new tricks I can do, thus I have an extreme good understanding about ivara.

When I say longest invis, I mean duration vs ash, thus I obviously know prowl last longer, I even said so earlier in the thread, duh. But I'm talking about invis that you can run in, like ash and loki can do (and octavia, who breaks this by being able to refresh duration by t-bagging, but we don't talk about that broken ho). Loki DOES sit in the middle though with how cumbersome his stealth is, I fully agree with this. Again, stinging talon or zakti makes it so loki can do CL Finishers without needing an ability. With his ability to divert aggro and bring everyone into melee play, this gives him a huge leg-up on a lot of frames for this tactic, because having enemies come to you helps a lot in melee kill speeds, because enemies usually like to sit back when it comes to attacking.

Edited November 2, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

About Ivara, for an Ivara main, you really can't say much about dps for her, since navigator Zenistar is one of the best dps synergies in game. A synergy that works with many weapons. Artemis bow was just one example that I thought everyone would understand, but navigator with a low duration (not minimal) can make bows, lanka, zenistar, orvius, glaive prime, torid, or anything with a projectile, super powered, along with her headshot multiplier and stealth multiplier on thrown melee. It's really amazing for dps, and although I am not an Ivara main, I know just about everything there is to know about this game and I'm always creating and learning everyday new tricks I can do, thus I have an extreme good understanding about ivara.

This is quite true.  It's just that people seem to think that a gimped power strength Artemis Bow should be the highest damaging weapon in the game for some strange reason.  If you want Artemis Bow to be high damaging, you can't gimp power strength and need to mod primary weapon to give it the extra boost.  I've seen too many complain the Artemis Bow sux while they have negative power strength and using a dang shotgun as their primary.  Duh.

My Power Strength is at 199% and I have no problems taking out damn near anything in the game when using a properly modded Primary.  (for the record my highest damaging Artemis Bow is with the Daikyu.  Hehe).  This still doesn't even come close to the damage levels Navigator can get to.  Then stacking Prowl's headshot bonus on top with stealth bonuses can be freaking evil.

I have a theory that Ash using his Passive, Smoke Screen, and a high status Gas/Slash build Orvius charged throw would be the next closest in damage.  His passive is also the reason I have him paired with the Dread.  Actually most of my build and loadouts for Ash take into account his passive.  He's probably the only frame I've done that with.   

edit:  the above comments are not directed toward or about you, @(PS4)Radehx

Edited November 2, 2017 by DatDarkOne
clarification

[(PSN)Crixus044]

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

This is quite true.  It's just that people seem to think that a gimped power strength Artemis Bow should be the highest damaging weapon in the game for some strange reason.  If you want Artemis Bow to be high damaging, you can't gimp power strength and need to mod primary weapon to give it the extra boost.  I've seen too many complain the Artemis Bow sux while they have negative power strength and using a dang shotgun as their primary.  Duh.

My Power Strength is at 199% and I have no problems taking out damn near anything in the game when using a properly modded Primary.  (for the record my highest damaging Artemis Bow is with the Daikyu.  Hehe).  This still doesn't even come close to the damage levels Navigator can get to.  Then stacking Prowl's headshot bonus on top with stealth bonuses can be freaking evil.

I have a theory that Ash using his Passive, Smoke Screen, and a high status Gas/Slash build Orvius charged throw would be the next closest in damage.  His passive is also the reason I have him paired with the Dread.  Actually most of my build and loadouts for Ash take into account his passive.  He's probably the only frame I've done that with.   

edit:  the above comments are not directed toward or about you, @(PS4)Radehx

Agreed. I run am interesting build with my rakta cernos, that gets me maximum dps, which is putting on primed fast hands, since charge speed is only good for changing positions, more maximum single target dps ous best by tapping and shortening the draw speed per arrow, which i can spam my trigger for some really serious dps. Add in a kavat with instant reload, and you got one hard hitting bow. Add in prowl and magnetize with a harrow on your team, rip everybody.

Edited November 3, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044