Lack of Universal Vacuum Hinders Companion Diversity and Pet Updates

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Double post

Edited October 29, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 hour ago, Dasmir said:

The only thing its hinder pets are the terribad AI and its not even that bad, Helminth and Huras charge for a lot of damage very often (sadly other kubrows are TERRIBLE) and Kavats have their insane buffs and AoE armor strip.

I just feel like the AI will never be fixed the way it should be. I believe DE just isn't talented enough or knows how to fix companion AI the way it should be fixed. Instead we will get buggy commands. 

Kubros and Kavats should attack instinctively and know how to handle each enemy instinctively. Or we should be able to teach them through experience. 

Sadly this will never be the case and we will always have the buggy RNG mess that is kavats and kubros. 

However having vacuum as an innate option (like mags passive) for WFs, and commands for companions would help alleviate some of that "mess" IMO. 

[TheBrsrkr]

11 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

To understand how they work, yes. You need to own them to see if they work at all. Did you know for example that adarza only buffs within 25 meters and if the player is out of range it's not gonna buff them? Meaning, if the cat is running around like an idiot - which is what all pets do, - you won't get the buff at all.

Sorry I don't have a million  credits and the time it takes to breed every Kubrow, Kavat and Charger in the game. Except I'm not, because it's meaningless. Not owning one means nothing, because it does the same thing if I own it or not. 

Keep in mind 25 meters is half a tileset, and a larger range of any sentinel besides Dethcube I think, and Deth Machine Rifle isn't all that great. I use Helios (not Prime) and the range on Deconstructor is pitiful, and it tends to hit things that I was shooting  anyway while it only has 3 shots. And isn't that more a problem with companion AI than the companions themselves? Ask for a Doggo command tab or something like that. Don't see what that has to do with Sentinels being better than Doggo. More consistent, yeah, but better? 

[GraveSpectre]

Maybe not a universal vacuum as baseline. Because vauban or was it limbo's vacuum black hole power becomes less fun. Oh hey you wanna run a dog or cat? 

You can without losing 'vacuum' just use that warframe with the black hole. or mag?

However I'd sooner see Vacuum be changed from a sentinal mod into an exilus mod. because really. that place suits it better at this point.

It's not UV but it gives players what they want without sacrificing so called 'diversity'

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, GraveSpectre said:

However I'd sooner see Vacuum be changed from a sentinal mod into an exilus mod. because really. that place suits it better at this point.

mandatory exilus mod isn't a very good idea. Exilus mods could be tremendously useful and interesting. No, exilus slot is no place for vacuum.

[GraveSpectre]

8 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

mandatory exilus mod isn't a very good idea. Exilus mods could be tremendously useful and interesting. No, exilus slot is no place for vacuum.

Actually it's almost perfect. 

Coaction Drift, Patagium or Vacuum? 

One's power, the other's mobility and one is convenience. 
You have to CHOOSE.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Sorry I don't have a million  credits and the time it takes to breed every Kubrow, Kavat and Charger in the game. Except I'm not, because it's meaningless. Not owning one means nothing, because it does the same thing if I own it or not. 

I have to disagree with this.

2 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Keep in mind 25 meters is half a tileset,

It really isn't. Even on a small map like Hydron cat would just run away and you won't be getting the buff half the time.

2 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

and a larger range of any sentinel besides Dethcube I think, and Deth Machine Rifle isn't all that great. I use Helios (not Prime) and the range on Deconstructor is pitiful, and it tends to hit things that I was shooting  anyway while it only has 3 shots. And isn't that more a problem with companion AI than the companions themselves? Ask for a Doggo command tab or something like that. Don't see what that has to do with Sentinels being better than Doggo. More consistent, yeah, but better? 

I have to point out that it's not weapons that define range of sentinels but precepts. Helios attachs at 12m range as far as I remember. Same as Carrier. On the other hand Diriga engages at 75m range - with any weapon. And you can interchange weapons between sentinels (except the Deconstructor).

 Companions' AI wasn't updated in at least 3 years and it's a monumental work. Asking for pets' AI rework right now is unrealistic in my opinion. DE has to have a solid incentive to even attempt to go there. That's why we need UV so much. DE won't bother with pets' AI rework unless pets are as popular as sentinels. And only Universal Vacuum can somewhat even the odds of people choosing pets instead of sentinels. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

26 minutes ago, GraveSpectre said:

Actually it's almost perfect. 

Coaction Drift, Patagium or Vacuum? 

One's power, the other's mobility and one is convenience. 
You have to CHOOSE.

You suggesting a "choice" that would force me to butcher my builds with a mandatory bandaid mod just to have vacuum? Vacuum is not a variety choice, I repeat, it's quality of life that makes a faulty looting system bearable. That's why people use it so much.

Edited October 30, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[GraveSpectre]

7 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You suggesting a "choice" that would force me to butcher my builds with a mandatory bandaid mod just to have vacuum? Vacuum is not a variety choice, I repeat, it's quality of life that makes a faulty looting system beareble. That's why people use it so much.

That is exactly what I am saying. Because it is the compromise between both sides of the argument.

Personally, I'd love an innate 20m UV from my warframe and 10m UV on any pet/companion. And snipers having a collect on Kill mod or something so I can settle down in my sniper nest with my glass cannons. when I decide to spec into sniping. (Mostly I just rush the field with melee and shotgun)

But I can recognize that I am not going to get THAT for various reasons. Because that's the decision DE has made. They want it as a Mod. 
So the solution they are most likely to consider is another mod. Be it add a Hoover Mod for the kubrow/kavat and keep Vacuum on Sentinels. or to make it an Aura or Exilus Mod so that you hoover from your warframe. And we don't want them to make it an Aura mod. Everyone would use it and well... Aura's stack so 4 x 20 = 80... everything on the map is practically collect on kill at that point. Or even if the aura is just a 10m vacuum. 40m is still considerable at that point. And 5m is out as that's already baseline and makes for nothing in solo play making the mod only useful for team stack. Not exactly fun.

Vacuum is QoL and incredibly popular that it has heftily influenced player companion decisions for a long time.
But that doesn't mean that it is a necessity or should become a mandatory baseline if that is not what DE decide it should be.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

48 minutes ago, GraveSpectre said:

That is exactly what I am saying. Because it is the compromise between both sides of the argument.

Personally, I'd love an innate 20m UV from my warframe and 10m UV on any pet/companion. And snipers having a collect on Kill mod or something so I can settle down in my sniper nest with my glass cannons. when I decide to spec into sniping. (Mostly I just rush the field with melee and shotgun)

But I can recognize that I am not going to get THAT for various reasons. Because that's the decision DE has made. They want it as a Mod. 
So the solution they are most likely to consider is another mod. Be it add a Hoover Mod for the kubrow/kavat and keep Vacuum on Sentinels. or to make it an Aura or Exilus Mod so that you hoover from your warframe. And we don't want them to make it an Aura mod. Everyone would use it and well... Aura's stack so 4 x 20 = 80... everything on the map is practically collect on kill at that point. Or even if the aura is just a 10m vacuum. 40m is still considerable at that point. And 5m is out as that's already baseline and makes for nothing in solo play making the mod only useful for team stack. Not exactly fun.

Vacuum is QoL and incredibly popular that it has heftily influenced player companion decisions for a long time.
But that doesn't mean that it is a necessity or should become a mandatory baseline if that is not what DE decide it should be.

It's not a compromise. It's the worst possible solution. Let's not go into metaphysics and wild speculations over what DE intended or not.

Manual pickups are an entirely skippable mechanic right now if only you never use pets - that's the reality of the issue.

Reinventing the wheel at this point would only make everyone angry. We already have innate vacuum on both warframes and archwings. It literally takes no effort to increase the range of that vacuum to 12m and 60m respectively and close the issue forever. There's no need for an additional exilus mod, no need in another bandaid mechanic. Warframe is not a good pickup simulator - there's just too many loot in the game; and without vacuum you either spend the whole mission collecting that loot or ignore pickups entirely.

Vacuum allows you to engage with item pickups without distracting you from the actual gameplay - that's also the reality of the issue.

Edited October 30, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[TheBrsrkr]

2 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I have to disagree with this.

Explain to me, then, how telling me that the cat's buff range is 25  meters and me buying an incubator incubating a cat, buying a gene mod, waiting for the cat to grow, formaing the cat 5 times to fit everything, buying  cat mods and ranking them up and then taking a week or so playing with the cat on all tilesets in a variety of game modes and maps is something I wouldn't understand. I know how long 25 meters is. I know how annoying and out of place a cat can be. 25 meters is a big range at any point in the tileset. Again, this is more of an AI problem than a functional problem. Sentinels don't deal with this because sentinels are stuck above your head, always. This is good or bad depending on the circumstance, which is how it should be. 

 

2 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

.

I have to point out that it's not weapons that define range of sentinels but precepts. Helios attachs at 12m range as far as I remember. Same as Carrier. On the other hand Diriga engages at 75m range - with any weapon. And you can interchange weapons between sentinels (except the Deconstructor).

Problem being only the Diriga's weapon is effective at a range of 75m. Death machine rifle would miss more than half the shots, Carrier shotgun would lose most of its damage, Djinn and Wyrm guns are useless at any range and Taxon's gun isn't that good either. Not a big deal. The only really good one is Deconstructor, which as you said isn't transferable. 

 

2 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Companions' AI wasn't updated in at least 3 years and it's a monumental work. Asking for pets' AI rework right now is unrealistic in my opinion. DE has to have a solid incentive to even attempt to go there. That's why we need UV so much. DE won't bother with pets' AI rework unless pets are as popular as sentinels. And only Universal Vacuum can somewhat even the odds of people choosing pets instead of sentinels. 

My point being, it still won't. People don't take sentinels just because of vacuum. If you were to add vacuum to Doggos today, people STILL wouldn't use them, because they cost way too much to maintain and  have their own specific mods that even go to R10 to get that don't drop very often, or only drop from obscure places like Earth where there's nothing to do, really. Pets are too much of a hassle no matter what they do. If you want to put up with it that's fine by me, but no Vacuum is really just another nail in a coffin that has too many nails on  it already. 

[TheMostFrench]

I just want to say I'm one person who doesn't really care about vacuum - I am generally always moving around enough to pick up items I need, the only time it feels useful is if you're in a survival mission or something and everyone runs off alone, because then you will be running through empty corridors specifically picking things up and it makes that a little bit easier. It also makes it easier to grab items which fall into corners or weird geometry.

IMO I would use pets WAY more if they didn't have an upkeep cost and didn't need to go into stasis. None of the sentinels need this and I can switch to them immediately whenever I want, even if I haven't thought about them for a few months. I think another main thing is that it is entirely possible to win at this game without a sentinel or pet at all - with good loadouts and squad composition you can beat pretty much anything the game throws at you, so my point is that I never really feel like I *need* to switch away from carrier, I don't even have a weapon equipped on it because I don't want it to draw any aggro.

There is also a lot of information about how sentinels work which is not immediately obvious or properly explained in the game. I watched these videos earlier and discovered a bunch of stuff I didn't know about sentinels, like the priority system which controls the order of sentinel actions, and the revive shield being based off the sentinels own shield capacity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I6rS6azVvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOvsSDfFkYo

edit: For what it's worth this discussion has made me interested in trying different sentinels now.

Edited October 30, 2017 by TheMostFrench

[AperoBeltaTwo]

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Explain to me, then, how telling me that the cat's buff range is 25  meters and me buying an incubator incubating a cat, buying a gene mod, waiting for the cat to grow, formaing the cat 5 times to fit everything, buying  cat mods and ranking them up and then taking a week or so playing with the cat on all tilesets in a variety of game modes and maps is something I wouldn't understand. I know how long 25 meters is. I know how annoying and out of place a cat can be. 25 meters is a big range at any point in the tileset. Again, this is more of an AI problem than a functional problem. Sentinels don't deal with this because sentinels are stuck above your head, always. This is good or bad depending on the circumstance, which is how it should be. 

I just didn't want to point out that you don't know a lot of stuff about both sentinels and pets. That's it. Here I explained it. Cause some of the things you've said in your previous posts could be explained by general inexpierience with the companions. It's ok, you're not supposed to know everything about warframe from birth, but when you're arguing about the topic, generally, it's more constructive if you know what you're talking about.

 Anyway, we're arguing over chickens and eggs here, when we shouldn't. DE can't fix AI as easily as they can fix vacuum. And to even have an incentive to tackle the AI problem, DE have to see that pets could be just as popular as sentinels. For that UV is absolutely essential. It won't solve all problems pets have, but it will solve the most damaging issue.

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Problem being only the Diriga's weapon is effective at a range of 75m. Death machine rifle would miss more than half the shots, Carrier shotgun would lose most of its damage, Djinn and Wyrm guns are useless at any range and Taxon's gun isn't that good either. Not a big deal. The only really good one is Deconstructor, which as you said isn't transferable. 

 Personally I use prism burst laser build for status, punchthrough and firerate. Death machine rifle with diriga should be very good against nullifiers, but I would have to test it myself to be certain - I don't own it. I've seen it work, but it might be impractical or buggy. The point is, you don't use sentinel guns for damage. They are very good for spreading status and for crowd control.

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

My point being, it still won't. People don't take sentinels just because of vacuum. If you were to add vacuum to Doggos today, people STILL wouldn't use them, because they cost way too much to maintain and  have their own specific mods that even go to R10 to get that don't drop very often, or only drop from obscure places like Earth where there's nothing to do, really. Pets are too much of a hassle no matter what they do. If you want to put up with it that's fine by me, but no Vacuum is really just another nail in a coffin that has too many nails on  it already. 

First of all, pets cost nothing to maintain. For a freshly new player - maybe they're expensive. But that's just a temporal period of the playthrough. You can get enough credits to maintain pets for months just by selling oberon parts that drop from eximuses. It's not as big a deal as you say it is. The only big deal is the time lag between sentinel and pet acquisiotion that gets new players accustomed to taxon's vacuum. And with certain warframes pets are nearly invincible (I acknowledge the problem with the less tankier frames).

The r10 mods you're talking about aren't a huge issue either. They drop from dogs and cats that you see in regular missions or could be bought for 10pl tops (r0 ofc). Maxing those mods out might take some time, but same could be said about a ton of other mods in the game (including the sentinel ones). It's a non-factor for anyone who regularly plays the game.

 Now, you're saying that giving pets vacuum wont work to improve their popularity. I disagree with that. The rest of the sentinels were in the same position as pets two years ago. Sentinels' survivability is still horrendous. They die if an enemy bombard accidently sneezes in the general viscinity. I don't have a statistic to prove it, unfortunately, but I guarantee that people started using various sentinels way more often after the "vacuum within" update. When before that it was just the carrier.

73% Carrier usage in 2015 - I wonder why?

Edited October 30, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[TheBrsrkr]

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I just didn't want to point out that you don't know a lot of stuff about both sentinels and pets. That's it. Here I explained it. Cause some of the things you've said in your previous posts could be explained by general inexpierience with the companions. It's ok, you're not supposed to know everything about warframe from birth, but when you're arguing about the topic, generally, it's more constructive if you know what you're talking about.

 

And this means what exactly? Again, the issues they have are there for anyone to see in a variety of situations. Not having a Doggo doesn't mean I don't know how the dog works or how it's abilities interact with the player. Even if I've never had strawberry cheesecake, I can still say someone's strawberry cheesecake is garbage because it's black and reeks of fish. 

 

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 

 Anyway, we're arguing over chickens and eggs here, when we shouldn't. DE can't fix AI as easily as they can fix vacuum. And to even have an incentive to tackle the AI problem, DE have to see that pets could be just as popular as sentinels. For that UV is absolutely essential. It won't solve all problems pets have, but it will solve the most damaging issue.

 

My point being, as before, it wouldn't help them at all. You're also introducing more problems with UV. It works on sentinels because sentinels hover above you. How would it work with Doggos? Would it center around you or the Doggo? If  it's around you the Doggo itself won't provide any benefit. If it's on  the Doggo then what you pick up will be limited to where the Doggo is, and as said before the AI is lacking which means inconsistencies in loot finds. The most damaging issue to living companions is not that they don't have vacuum, because people picked sentinels WITHOUT vacuum as I and many others still do. Vacuum just isn't such a big deal. The most damaging issue to Doggos is accessibility and cost. 

 

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

.

First of all, pets cost nothing to maintain. For a freshly new player - maybe they're expensive. But that's just a temporal period of the playthrough. You can get enough credits to maintain pets for months just by selling oberon parts that drop from eximuses. It's not as big a deal as you say it is. The only big deal is the time lag between sentinel and pet acquisiotion that gets new players accustomed to taxon's vacuum. And with certain warframes pets are nearly invincible (I acknowledge the problem with the less tankier frames).

 

My point being they cast more than sentinels do, which is ZERO. Once you have a sentinel, you have a sentinel. There is no maintenance involved. You pay 100k credits and 10 Fieldron for Helios, the rest is just trash resources you had already. Takes a day to build. Helios is the most expensive companion in terms of resources and function, because you have to buy scanners for it, but scanners cost a pittance of 500 credits for 25 uses. 

For a Doggo, you have to find or buy a Kubrow egg of which you an only have  1 at a time, use imprints to get the one I want, buy a segment for 50k, build the segment for 100k, wait 2 day for it to hatch then wait 2 more days for it to grow, THEN I have to pay for the gene injector things to keep it alive forever. If I stay away from the game for a week, by Doggo will die if I don't freeze it, and when I do freeze it it has to thaw out for a few hours. Unless you buy the new segment that auto freezes your Doggo when it comes close to dying, which is just another cost.

No such cost exists for a sentinel. 75k credits is not a small amount when you add it up per week. It's a constant drain on your supplies that SENTINELS DO NOT HAVE. There is also zero risk of your sentinel leaving you or dying. Whether Doggos get Vacuum or not, these issues will still exist. 

4 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

LThe r10 mods you're talking about aren't a huge issue either. They drop from dogs and cats that you see in regular missions or could be bought for 10pl tops (r0 ofc). Maxing those mods out might take some time, but same could be said about a ton of other mods in the game (including the sentinel ones). It's a non-factor for anyone who regularly plays the game.

Sentinel R10 mods do not define a sentinel as it dies for a Kubrow. Really look at the R10 mods you get for sentinels. Sanctuary, something you don't really need. Health and shields and armor mods, I guess. The rest are R5 or below. The rarest sentinel mod seems to be Coolant leak, which is garbage and doesn't  have any ranks. 

Kubrows have Maul, Bite and Shelter. Shelter is basically Sanctuary for Kubrows, so we'll ignore that, but the  other 2 both have to be farmed for and ranked. Also they don't have health and shield mods of their own, rather they have link health and shields.  Another thing is that the mods you have to get that are specific to your breed of Doggo, which you also have to farm for sentinels but drops enough to be endo fodder for everyone. Sentinels also have health and shield mods independent from the frame, so their stats are constant while link health and shields vary depending on the frame. 

4 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

.

 Now, you're saying that giving pets vacuum wont work to improve their popularity. I disagree with that. The rest of the sentinels were in the same position as pets two years ago. Sentinels' survivability is still horrendous. They die if an enemy bombard accidently sneezes in the general viscinity. I don't have a statistic to prove it, unfortunately, but I guarantee that people started using various sentinels way more often after the "vacuum within" update. When before that it was just the carrier.

73% Carrier usage in 2015 - I wonder why?

Because people are lazy? 

Giving Doggos vacuum solves one issue of nearly a dozen issues people have with them, and  it doesn't even solve the issue well. To be honest, I still don't use Vacuum. I can walk, and even using the Braton Prime I never really run out of ammo. I don't see the need for it in the first place. Nobody is going to pick up a new Doggo just because they have vacuum however you make it now. They'll still be horrible expensive wastes of time built for flavor and appeal.

[Orbital_NZ]

I would prefer that the UI gets altered to treat sentinels and a pets as separate entities and allow us the option to field both at the same time.

Some of the mods might need to be balanced or split up between the 2 companion types.

For instance remove loot and enemy radar away from pets, making it sentinal only, but give the pet abilities to highlight cloaked enemies and object (through smell etc)

Or while a sential can shield a player reviving another, a pet will race around confusing some of them.

I would also consider giving pets a new chance abilities such as digging up uncommon or rare resources from the ground (planet dependent) or out of consols/equipment (ships)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

My point being, as before, it wouldn't help them at all. You're also introducing more problems with UV. It works on sentinels because sentinels hover above you. How would it work with Doggos?

Have you even read the original post at all? I was talking about passive warframe universal vacuum. I never suggested vacuum on pets themselves.

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Kubrows have Maul, Bite [..] but the  other 2 both have to be farmed for and ranked

How did you get 8 thousand forum rep on an account older than mine and still seriously talk about how "expensive" r10 mods are, and how much credits Kubrow require to breed? While not knowing how sentinels or pets work? Am I being trolled? ._. Cause I see no other explanation. Have you been playing this game at all? This doesn't make any sense. I mean no offence, but this is just ridiculous. People get hundreds of millions of credits on their accounts and there's literally nothing to do with those and you seriously saying 10k to unfreeze a dog is "expensive"? WTF ._.

Edited October 30, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[DeltaPangaea]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Have you even read the original post at all? I was talking about passive warframe universal vacuum. I never suggested vacuum on pets themselves.

How did you get 8 thousand forum rep on an account older than mine and still seriously talk about how "expensive" r10 mods are, and how much credits Kubrow require to breed? While not knowing how sentinels or pets work? Am I being trolled? ._. Cause I see no other explanation. Have you been playing this game at all? This doesn't make any sense. I mean no offence, but this is just ridiculous. People get hundreds of millions of credits on their accounts and there's literally nothing to do with those and you seriously saying 10k to unfreeze a dog is "expensive"? WTF ._.

Yes, because the game is comprised entirely of veterans with oodles of money.

[DeltaPangaea]

1 minute ago, Nation_X said:

Vacuum = lazy players

Way to be a constructive part of the conversation.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Yes, because the game is comprised entirely of veterans with oodles of money.

B-but it's like 10k credits. You can get 10k credits by selling spare mods or oberon parts... nvm it's not the topic of the discussion. I just don't think Kubrow and Kavat "expenses" have anything at all to do with the fact that animal pets aren't popular. They're absolutely not hard to get. Sentinels are ofc easier to get, but it's a secondary issue to the lack of vacuum.

[DeltaPangaea]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

B-but it's like 10k credits. You can get 10k credits by selling spare mods or oberon parts... nvm it's not the topic of the discussion. I just don't think Kubrow and Kavat "expenses" have anything at all to do with the fact that animal pets aren't popular. They're absolutely not hard to get. Sentinels are ofc easier to get, but it's a secondary issue to the lack of vacuum.

Yes, but it's 10k credits that people still don't want to spend. And if you do it all the time, then it adds up. So people wait.

I'm not gonna say that the whole vacuum thing isn't a big reason why people use sentinels over pets, but it's definitely not the ONLY reason.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

11 minutes ago, Nation_X said:

Vacuum = lazy players

Lazy post?

 Just ask yourself, what manual pickups really add to the gameplay? And considering that with vacuum anyone could avoid manual pickups for good, is there even a point in locking this easily accessible QoL behind specific equipment? While the rest of the companion content suffers from the lack of said QoL.

Edited October 30, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Yes, but it's 10k credits that people still don't want to spend. And if you do it all the time, then it adds up. So people wait.

I'm not gonna say that the whole vacuum thing isn't a big reason why people use sentinels over pets, but it's definitely not the ONLY reason.

I never said it's the only reason. I said it's the main reason and the rest is secondary to it. And credits pile up on their own if you play the game at all. It's a non-issue. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Mattoropael]

42 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Yes, but it's 10k credits that people still don't want to spend. And if you do it all the time, then it adds up. So people wait.

I'm not gonna say that the whole vacuum thing isn't a big reason why people use sentinels over pets, but it's definitely not the ONLY reason.

Yes, pets will need more help than just Universal Vacuum.

But seeing as Vacuum made an overwhelming majority of the playerbase to use the one companion compatible with it before The Vacuum Within extended that to the rest of the sentinels, it's a really, really big factor.

[TheBrsrkr]

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Have you even read the original post at all? I was talking about passive warframe universal vacuum. I never suggested vacuum on pets themselves.

 

This makes no sense. Vacuum is not necessary for any part of the game. The base acquisition rate of the game will increase, and many things will have to change because of it. Vacuum is for companions as utility, a utility that is far from necessary at any point. Having  it outside of a companion means drops are more common overall due to this effect. I remember what happened the last time something like that happened. Didn't end well. 

 

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How did you get 8 thousand forum rep on an account older than mine and still seriously talk about how "expensive" r10 mods are, and how much credits Kubrow require to breed? While not knowing how sentinels or pets work? Am I being trolled? ._. Cause I see no other explanation. Have you been playing this game at all? This doesn't make any sense. I mean no offence, but this is just ridiculous. People get hundreds of millions of credits on their accounts and there's literally nothing to do with those and you seriously saying 10k to unfreeze a dog is "expensive"? WTF ._.

Because I didn't have a PC to run Warframe for 2 years? Because I don't have the kind of time now that I have a job to grind credits all day? Because I don't have the time or need for millions of credits? Because I don't farm Akkad into oblivion? Because I like actually playing the game instead of farming to farm more? Because I don't want to spend 2 weeks on earth fighting enemies that couldn't kill me if I went out to lunch in the middle of it for one mod I didn't need, spend a ton of Endo and cash to rank it up for a stupid dog cat or abomination that can't compare to Helios that I then have to forma 3 times to make useful? Sorry I like fun more than farming, but that's the way I slice it.

I also note that you ignored literally every other issue with companions that UV would not solve, not mitigate and not change in any way, shape or form. Unless and until ranking up 5 R10 mods, 150k credits and 4 days later I get something useful for my time, at ANY level, there is absolutely no reason for this topic to exist. 

Do you think it's just gonna come easy? You think DE will just put on UV and change nothing else? You think they're gonna just pet you nearly DOUBLE the acquisition rate of resources on a whim? Game balance doesn't work like that. Things like this is how we got Argon, Nitain and now fish oil. Yes, fish oil. Fish oil is just a way for DE to buy your time in the game instead of sitting on one of Ivara's wires in the middle of a Dark Sector map burning everything to death for 20 minutes and reaping in tons of rewards for no effort. Nothing comes free. 

 

If you want DE to fix the AI or buff the Doggos , ask DE to fix the bloody AI and buff the Doggos. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If you want DE to fix the AI or buff the Doggos , ask DE to fix the bloody AI and buff the Doggos. 

Nobody is going to play with pets even if DE magically fix all the AI problems TOMORROW. And they won't do that unless people magically start playing with pets a lot more than they do right now. UV on warframes will make pets as convenient as sentinels and the fact they could be ressurected will make up for the dumb AI. If you ever actually played with any of the pets you would have known that.

I wasted two days talking to a person who spent more time on the forums than in the game, my God! Srsly, dude. You don't know your own S#&a at all, yet you talk like you know everything. There has to be a limit where you become self-conscious about it.

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Do you think it's just gonna come easy? You think DE will just put on UV and change nothing else? You think they're gonna just pet you nearly DOUBLE the acquisition rate of resources on a whim? Game balance doesn't work like that.

For the tenth time, we aready have that with all sentinels. At this point lack of UV only means that people don't play with pets - that's all. It doesn't hinder resource farming in any way, since people mostly use vacuum anyway. They just don't play with animal companions.

Edited October 31, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo