Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[Dasmir]

Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

probably not gonna get larger than the 3m innate vacuum they begrudgingly added, Sheldon seemed pretty clear on not giving out a wide range Universal Vacuum. personally I'm not too bothered, and if they buffed Kubrows and Kavats with both improved AI and a statistical increase to most areas, people might find them worth using more.

 

Charge kubrow can already wipe whole rooms and kavat giving those insane buff with strip armor, they already have decent stats but they lack from a decent AI.

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, Dasmir said:

 

Charge kubrow can already wipe whole rooms and kavat giving those insane buff with strip armor, they already have decent stats but they lack from a decent AI.

The AI is fairly simple for a reason. The more advanced the AI the more processing power you need to run it so all the potatoes Warframe runs on now wouldn't do so well.

[Kurienno]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No, leave vacuum as the noob trap it is.

+1 

[ShogunGunshow]

Vacuum is whatever.

But yes, for f*ck's sake, get rid of the need to buy this DNA stabilizer nonsense.

[Agilos]

I dont see a universal vacuum as a good idea, as it give people else reason to work as a group.

My recommendation to DE

A: leave vacuum as it is, and never change it again.

or

B: remove it from the game, and never put it in again.

[(XBOX)sh3kvothe]

Me thinks the main point is to make definitive differences between the class of "pets". Sentinals you get a neat little pick up, not sure about kavats I dont use them, and kubrows you get a good bite in the pnataloons of the grineer. 

[Crowshrink]

2 minutes ago, Agilos said:

I dont see a universal vacuum as a good idea, as it give people else reason to work as a group.

My recommendation to DE

A: leave vacuum as it is, and never change it again.

or

B: remove it from the game, and never put it in again.

Umm..what? How does not having universal vacuum give a reason to work together? Sorry that makes no sense.

There is nothing wrong with universal vacuum, so why are so many damn people against it?!

[Terrornaut]

Rarely have probs with the ai with my kubs/kav.  They decimate high level enemies (or strip armor of important heavies), save my &#! more than some tank type players do, and have good utility.  There were missions my Kubrow had more kills/dmg than some players back when they were a thing and mine were forma'd and not even maxed on bite/maul.

 

I do not like to stand around doing nothing in a frost bubble all day long.  Even for 1-2 hour endless modes, still prefer to move around, dodge, roll, bullet jump, etc, like 1/4 the reason to play warframe.  Didn't need the 3m vacuum, but it made some happen. But that people claim the game is literally unplayable (some joke, some seriously do) is just...funny.  But, different playstyles. Some you need to be on your toes, some you can be lazy af and have the reaction times and target acquisition times of a molasses covered brick and still have fun if you're into it.  Warframe is gg on that

Edited November 8, 2017 by Terrornaut

[JuicyPop]

To the people who believe that the coverage afforded by a 3m vacuum is anywhere close to that of the sentinel mod [11.5m], I think you need to retake basic geometry. 

 

[SilentMobius]

8 hours ago, Crowshrink said:

Do I really need to say anything else, DE for godsake I just wanna use a Kavat without having to worry about picking up loot.

P.S companion degenerating needs to go, it's really unnecessary. 

P.S P.S, buff Kubrows.

You are not going to get vacuum at sentinel range without equipping the sentinel and the mod. 

Steve said we might get get the ability to enhance the inherent 3m range via a Warframe mod.

People need to understand that you are going to have to give up something to gain the ability to virtually invalidate the entire loot collection mechanic. It doesn't matter that you think it would be better. DE aren't going to make an entire mechanical system redundant just because you don't want to do it.

[JuicyPop]

7 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

You are not going to get vacuum at sentinel range without equipping the sentinel and the mod. 

Steve said we might get get the ability to enhance the inherent 3m range via a Warframe mod.

People need to understand that you are going to have to give up something to gain the ability to virtually invalidate the entire loot collection mechanic. It doesn't matter that you think it would be better. DE aren't going to make an entire mechanical system redundant just because you don't want to do it.

... a mechanic that was designed for a game that almost seems alien by comparison at this point. I see no reason that such an archaic and menial function of the core gameplay loop needs to be held sacred while quite literally every other mechanic surrounding it has gone through some form of overhaul or tweaking at one point or another. 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JuicyPop

[SilentMobius]

12 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

... a mechanic that was designed for a game that almost seems alien by comparison at this point. I see no reason that such an archaic and menial function of the core gameplay loop needs to be held sacred while quite literally every other mechanic surrounding it has gone through some form of overhaul or tweaking at one point or another. 

Overhaul or tweaking is not the same as invalidation.

And loot has gone through many changes, people forget that the game didn't start open beta with Carrier.

We are not getting sentinel range vacuum for nothing, it's just not happening, make peace with it and move on.

Even the small inherent vacuum that came with POE was a compromise, a warframe mod will be more compromise.

DE have to think about the overall good of the game, and despite some players Dunning-Kreuger-based assertions, univac-at-sentinal-range is a huge sticky problem, as someone with a even a basic grasp of software design would see.

Edited November 8, 2017 by SilentMobius

[JuicyPop]

10 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Overhaul or tweaking is not the same as invalidation.

And loot has gone through many changes, people forget that the game didn't start open beta with Carrier.

We are not getting sentinel range vacuum for nothing, it's just not happening, make peace with it and move on.

Even the small inherent vacuum that came with POE was a compromise, a warframe mod will be more compromise.

DE have to think about the overall good of the game, and despite some players Dunning-Kreuger-based assertions, univac-at-sentinal-range is a huge sticky problem, as someone with a even a basic grasp of software design would see.

The existence of vacuum already does invalidate it though. It's not as if the introduction of uni-vac would suddenly break looting mechanics, they're already long dead given the prevalence of sentinels. 

The real point here is the exclusivity as it relates to other companions. As long as sentinels have a deathgrip on a function that the community considers to be fundamental to the core experience, then all other companions will be non-viable. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Lion]

8 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

You are a few weeks late. We got one with PoE.

Wowie zowie! A whopping 3 meters?!?!?! That's only 9 meters shorter than Vacuum, it's almost like we don't even need it anymore!

[Update]

Another vaccum post... Ok since i'm Here...

Players are reaaaaally this LAZY? Back in the 2013 without vaccum how we survived?

Kavat/Kubrow are already a good choice over the usless "Hey i'm lazy, suck it For me"

(Hey mag passive exist For you :D)

I'm not Here to rant, but to say... With free vaccum player Will just "Spin all the tileset" without EVEN enjoy the game. Yes. You can discover some hidden rooms in you look For drops properly.

This Said. Want vaccum ? Stivk to Your sentinel.

[SilentMobius]

On 08/11/2017 at 4:35 PM, JuicyPop said:

The existence of vacuum already does invalidate it though. It's not as if the introduction of uni-vac would suddenly break looting mechanics, they're already long dead given the prevalence of sentinels. 

The real point here doesn't have anything to actually do with vacuum itself, just its exclusivity to sentinels which pushes out Kubrows and Kavats from generalized use. 

No it doesn't, just like any slotting decision players are making a choice to use a sentinel and sacrifice that slot, that is engagement in the mechanic, they are making a choice. The only thing to learn is that vacuum-as-a-mod is outrageously op.

...or would you say the solution to maiming strike+atterax making all other melee weapons pointless is to give everyone inherent maiming strike? because I bet DE would disagree with you there as well.

Edited January 26, 2018 by SilentMobius

[JuicyPop]

Just now, SilentMobius said:

No it doesn't, just like any slotting decision players are making a choice to use a sentinel and sacrifice that slot, that is engagement in the mechanic, they are making a choice. The only thing to learn is that vacuum-as-a-mod is outrageously op.

...or would you say the solution to maiming strike+atterax making all other melee weapons pointless is to give everyone inherent maiming strike? because I bed DE would disagree with you there as well.

Yes, and if they choose not to use Vacuum, then it is objectively the wrong choice if they care at all about efficiency. 

[SilentMobius]

Just now, JuicyPop said:

Yes, and if they choose not to use Vacuum, then it is objectively the wrong choice if they care at all about efficiency. 

I believe there is a Princess Bride quote about people using a word and it not meaning what they think it means?

No, it's not "objectively the wrong choice", it's pointless even enumerating the ways it's not objective, but I know it and DE obviously does, and really, you can work it out too if you try.

I'm just trying to help, you are demonstrably not getting what you want (Sentinel range vacuum for no sacrifice), I'm trying to help you understand why not, but if you want to stay ignorant and angry, be my guest.

[JuicyPop]

3 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

I believe there is a Princess Bride quote about people using a word and it not meaning what they think it means?

No, it's not "objectively the wrong choice", it's pointless even enumerating the ways it's not objective, but I know it and DE obviously does, and really, you can work it out too if you try.

I'm just trying to help, you are demonstrably not getting what you want (Sentinel range vacuum for no sacrifice), I'm trying to help you understand why not, but if you want to stay ignorant and angry, be my guest.

I don't understand this concept of "sacrifice in exchange for QoL improvements" that you can keep going on about. Uni-vac is not going to cost DE money because it's not adding functionality that isn't already there in the form of sentinel vacuum.  

Your premise is faulty and it's impossible for me to really debate it because it's built on crude assumption.

Edited November 8, 2017 by JuicyPop

[JuicyPop]

19 minutes ago, Update said:

Another vaccum post... Ok since i'm Here...

Players are reaaaaally this LAZY? Back in the 2013 without vaccum how we survived?

Kavat/Kubrow are already a good choice over the usless "Hey i'm lazy, suck it For me"

(Hey mag passive exist For you :D)

I'm not Here to rant, but to say... With free vaccum player Will just "Spin all the tileset" without EVEN enjoy the game. Yes. You can discover some hidden rooms in you look For drops properly.

This Said. Want vaccum ? Stivk to Your sentinel.

By your logic, players are also lazy because they don't want to have to manually load the magazines for their weapons before and even during a mission as enemies drop rounds. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Dasmir]

5 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

I don't understand this concept of "sacrifice in exchange for QoL improvements" that you can keep going on about. Uni-vac is not going to cost DE money because it's not adding functionality that isn't already there in the form of sentinel vacuum.  

Your premise is faulty and it's impossible for me to really debate it because it's built on crude assumption.

QoL changes shouldnt be a band-aid mod in first place.

[Update]

1 minute ago, JuicyPop said:

By your logic, players are also lazy because they don't want to have to manually fill the magazines for their weapons before and even during a mission as enemies drop rounds. 

By My logic you have to "look" for drops you need and don't just rush a tileset... How mant players actually spend time around a tileset anymore? I'll agreed if you want a vaccum so use sentinel, but.. UNIVERSAL vaccum? That's way game-break.

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

Every time this topic comes up I really can't understand why people are so against universal vacuum.

Like do you think "no please, I don't want the polymer bundle over there picked up. I am avoiding it on purpose and I don't want it suddenly picked up for me."

or is it "I enjoy stopping to pick up small resources that are located in all corners of this massive tile-set so much. I mean, I play this game for the quick movement, but stopping to pick up things really sells it for me"

 

Universal vacuum hurts no one and gives players more choice for companions. People will still choose sentinels for certain things (ammo case, scanning, avoiding pet up-keep) and more people will choose kubrows and kavats for the perks they have. 

[JuicyPop]

6 minutes ago, Update said:

By My logic you have to "look" for drops you need and don't just rush a tileset... How mant players actually spend time around a tileset anymore? I'll agreed if you want a vaccum so use sentinel, but.. UNIVERSAL vaccum? That's way game-break.

There is no functional difference though given the fact that Kubrows and Kavats are not exceptionally powerful on their own. Outside of niche usage cases, for instance the Smeeta for double loot and the Huras for the superior cloak, they're largely aesthetic. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Still sticking with my buff boat carrier prime.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Fluff-E-Kitty