Petition To Lower The Conversion Rate Of The New Ammo Mods.

[dukelego]

you aim with your sniper in the first place?

[Zarrii]

Yeah lets make everything ineffective. Lets also rename Warframe to War Souls: Prepare to Die Edition. Lets also make everyone have no shield bar and playing with a keyboard and mouse is impossible.

[CaptainohCaptain]

Yeah lets make everything ineffective. Lets also rename Warframe to War Souls: Prepare to Die Edition. Lets also make everyone have no shield bar and playing with a keyboard and mouse is impossible.

I second that. Lets also transform pulling the trigger in short 30 sec audiosurf-like sequence.

[Eirshy]

Yeah lets make everything ineffective. Lets also rename Warframe to War Souls: Prepare to Die Edition. Lets also make everyone have no shield bar and playing with a keyboard and mouse is impossible.

God damn K+M on that game is a $#*(@. People need to learn how the F*** to port a game, you don't rely on modders to make the port even playable in the first place

 

 

Though I dun get why DS gets so much S#&$... The game's incredibly fair outside of exactly ONE fight (bed of chaos). Everything else, it just punishes stupidity.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[SPiRALFACToR]

this is the mod that makes high fire rate lowish damage weapons like the grakata, vipers, boltor, supra etc... even remotely usable in high level missions.

 

and you have to give up damage to equip them.

 

-1 from me.

[Soulgazer]

I think your petition is backfiring.

[Scowlface2]

How about we make a new petition, where Mak can only use starter equipment that can't be ranked up at all, no mods, and he's locked on Pluto Nightmare mode only?

[Mak_Gohae]

this is the mod that makes high fire rate lowish damage weapons like the grakata, vipers, boltor, supra etc... even remotely usable in high level missions.

 

and you have to give up damage to equip them.

 

-1 from me.

 

What does usable mean? Cause my T3 Extermination solo setup has a Viper as a sidearm and Hek as the main which are two guns that at T3 can get low on ammo and i did fine with those two.

 

And why do folks keep saying they have to give up damage to equip them?

Did you folks never actually equip max ammo with any of those high fire rate weapons?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

What does usable mean? Cause my T3 Extermination solo setup has a Viper as a sidearm and Hek as the main which are two guns that at T3 can get low on ammo and i did fine with those two.

 

And why do folks keep saying they have to give up damage to equip them?

Did you folks never actually equip max ammo with any of those high fire rate weapons?

The extra damage will outweigh the extra ammo (i.e. 90% more damage means fewer bullets used on an enemy, which translates into more bullets to use on other enemies.)

Edited July 30, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Mak_Gohae]

The extra damage will outweigh the extra ammo (i.e. 90% more damage means fewer bullets used on an enemy, which translates into more bullets to use on other enemies.)

 

Ok, so you folks should be doing better than a person who equip max ammo because the numbers say you should, right?

I equip max ammo and i do fine, im not going to say i run a whole mission only using a Viper but i dont run out after a few battles cause, you know, i aim for the weak spots.

 

This is why i am asking what is usable?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Ok, so you folks should be doing better than a person who equip max ammo because the numbers say you should, right?

I equip max ammo and i do fine, im not going to say i run a whole mission only using a Viper but i dont run out after a few battles cause, you know, i aim for the weak spots.

 

This is why i am asking what is usable?

No I never said that, and more damage doesn't account for lag, different weapons, player skill, and how good/bad a person's computer is.

[Mak_Gohae]

No I never said that, and more damage doesn't account for lag, different weapons, player skill, and how good/bad a person's computer is.

 

So what's the point of bringing this up, then?

The excuse of loosing damage ends up meaning nothing.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[fatpig84]

On ammo efficient weapons duh no use.

Try it on a flux.

It is at least usable in a decent run now.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

So what's the point of bringing this up, then?

The excuse of loosing damage ends up meaning nothing.

Er... yes it does. More damage = easier time running missions. More damage per shot = better ammo efficiency. Using rifles, for 7 mod points you could get 30% more ammo or a total of 702 shots for 7 points OR an extra 60% base damage with serration. That damage makes the shots better, equal to an unmodded damage ammo amount of  864. See how that's better? More damage > more ammo because you use LESS ammo to kill targets.

 

Look at it with a gun that takes 2 shots to kill an enemy. You could either double the damage to make it a one hit kill OR double the amount of ammo. Which is better? They get the same results EXCEPT the ammo drops (10 for a sniper) from enemies are FAR better if you double the damage instead of max ammo Doubling the ammo means ammo drops also have to double.

 

See how it works? Damage > max ammo as long as the damage increase is more than how much the max ammo would be increased by and even then, more damage means better use of ammo, which means better use of ammo drops.

 

edit: That's not to mention how serration also makes other damage mods better too.

Edited July 30, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Mak_Gohae]

Er... yes it does. More damage = easier time running missions. More damage per shot = better ammo efficiency. Using rifles, for 7 mod points you could get 30% more ammo or a total of 702 shots for 7 points OR an extra 60% base damage with serration. That damage makes the shots better, equal to an unmodded damage ammo amount of  864. See how that's better? More damage > more ammo because you use LESS ammo to kill targets.

 

Look at it with a gun that takes 2 shots to kill an enemy. You could either double the damage to make it a one hit kill OR double the amount of ammo. Which is better? They get the same results EXCEPT the ammo drops (10 for a sniper) from enemies are FAR better if you double the damage instead of max ammo Doubling the ammo means ammo drops also have to double.

 

See how it works? Damage > max ammo as long as the damage increase is more than how much the max ammo would be increased by and even then, more damage means better use of ammo, which means better use of ammo drops.

 

You just wrote this.

 

No I never said that, and more damage doesn't account for lag, different weapons, player skill, and how good/bad a person's computer is.

 

You are saying that your formula is all up on the air depending on a whole mess of variable.

Repeating the formula is not going to suddenly change the point.

 

If a person cant shoot good.... more ammo could be better.

 

Anyway, who cares, the mods are cheesy. I was just doing a T3 Defense and didnt run out of ammo on a Boltor, i was always at max at the end of each wave. It is helpful for those super high missions but its still messes up the game everywhere else. Seriously, i was just standing inside a snow globe not taking my finger of the fire button. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

You just wrote this.

 

 

You are saying that your formula is all up on the air depending on a whole mess of variable.

Repeating the formula is not going to suddenly change the point.

Right, and how does more ammo make a gun better? I'm ignoring these factors for calculating which is better

 

If a person cant shoot good.... more ammo could be better.

Not even. Did you even read my post? More damage means the shots that hit deal more, giving a better ammo efficiency than more ammo. You can't argue this, the facts are against you honestly, just stop trying. The max ammo increase would have to be insane to be worth giving up almost any damage type.

 

Anyway, who cares, the mods are cheesy. I was just doing a T3 Defense and didnt run out of ammo on a Boltor, i was always at max at the end of each wave. It is helpful for those super high missions but its still messes up the game everywhere else. Seriously, i was just standing inside a snow globe not taking my finger of the fire button.

Glad you brought proof to back this up (i.e. a video) And the boltor ignores armor, making it VERY powerful towards the end, it doesn't need more ammo per pickup. The guns that do are things like the braton, grakata, vipers, etc.

Edited July 30, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[NalkorRN]

God damn K+M on that game is a $#*(@. People need to learn how the F*** to port a game, you don't rely on modders to make the port even playable in the first place

 

 

Though I dun get why DS gets so much S#&$... The game's incredibly fair outside of exactly ONE fight (bed of chaos). Everything else, it just punishes stupidity.

My advice for Dark Souls it to just man up and get it for the PS3. You need to use a gamepad to get any good use out of the PC version, and that one is full of hackers with infinite health, infinite spell castings, etc. The PS3 community is much nicer and far less toxic than the PC community. This is probably the only game where I'd say the PS3 version is naturally superior.

Oh, and you'll be super happy to know that Dark Souls 2 will be a PC game first and the console versions will be the ports.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Even on a normal infested extermination mission with a potatoed/forma'd Ignis and burst firing, the ammo gained by the rifle ammo recovery mod isn't enough to balance out the drain caused by the weapon. But it helps a lot, let me tell you this. I wouldn't want to miss it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by AuroraSonicBoom

[t4m5t3r]

These mods just came out yesterday, how could you have possibly tested them in enough situations & with enough different weapons to know they need nerfed?

 

As an Uber-fan of the Flux Rifle, I have to strongly disagree even if you had tested them properly (which I doubt), at T3 levels you still get pretty low on ammo, these mods just mean you are less likely to straight up run out and be left running to melee at enemies that can easily kill you.

Edited July 30, 2013 by t4m5t3r

[MECT_HET]

I'd downvote this stupid thread. If I could

Edited July 30, 2013 by MECT0HET

[r0ckwolf]

nononononononononononono -1

[ler110]

The only reason I would ever take one of these mods is if I was taking something like a Supra on a defense mission and I planned on being there longer than my ammo packs would last......all 8 of them.

[Mak_Gohae]

These mods just came out yesterday, how could you have possibly tested them in enough situations & with enough different weapons to know they need nerfed?

 

As an Uber-fan of the Flux Rifle, I have to strongly disagree even if you had tested them properly (which I doubt), at T3 levels you still get pretty low on ammo, these mods just mean you are less likely to straight up run out and be left running to melee at enemies that can easily kill you.

 

I clearly stated in the first post that this was a preliminary assessment based on one of the weapons that requires some thought on ammo conservation. 

 

I have since tested it on the Boar which is one of those weapons that eats ammo quickly and it didnt change my view even though i was fighting phorid and i did run out of ammo at the end because there was nothing around to drop ammo. So with these mods as long as you have something dropping your gun is never going to run out.  I also used a Boltor which didnt have a catalyst on a T3 defense and that was even close to empty.  Twin Vipers, no catalyst, on an Io defense and i think i took away the slip mag and this was a bad decision cause the vipers really get rid of their ammo very quick so it got annoying with the constant reload. Never ran out of ammo, just got annoyed with the constant reload.

 

The conversation is high enough that as long as something drops on the floor ammo is not going to be a problem.

[SonofRobin73]

What is wrong with you people and your nerf threads. This is a PvE game. It doesn't matter.

 

I hate going on the forums nowadays because all it is is people whining "Nerf this, Nerf that".

 

 

NO.

[Eirshy]

Mak, you mind replying to me?

These things do what the scav auras should do (or close; scav auras should give +% to ammo pickups when they're picked up, rather than +% chance to drop; wanna troll your shotty buddy, get three people to bring rifle or pistol scav auras on the run), and actually offer an ammo option for snipers (+30% max rank on Ammo Drum... Less than 25 extra rounds for the lose).

And it's not a worry of ammo efficiency with snipers, it's a worry of running out long-term because you get no drops. I've had T3 exterm solos where I didn't get a single sniper ammo drop, having to use the packs I brought.

As for it replacing something...

Snidal's the only sniper that has room for it.

You need Serration, Split Chamber, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Cryo Rounds, Piercing Hit.

Lanka and bows all need Speed Trigger.

Vulkar and Snipetron need Fast Hands.


Soooo you can give up a good chunk of damage (as all 7 of the mods I listed are all contributing a huge chunk to your damage output, with Hammer Shot (+90% (120% Dread) on crit) and Cryo Rounds (+180% vs Shields) contributing the least).


You already can just use ammo packs to extend your ammo supply on the Snidal (close to 900 total rounds without a single ammo pickup assuming you run max ammo drum in that open slot it has).



Not seeing how this is a problem. It saves you 1-8k credits with only the snidal... and this is in a game where a good chunk of the player base has over 1 mil and literally nothing to spend it on. Sure you can be willy-nilly with firing it... Implying you couldn't do that already?

 

Your astonishment with the ammo regain rate kinda ignores Ammo Packs alone kinda already do the same thing. So you trade a mod slot for 1-8k per run savings. The only time it's actually better to go with the mutators is if you want to do HWD with a weapon that burns ammo as fast as the Vipers- as the mutators don't (eventually) run out. Even sniper rifles can get to over 600 shots with ammo packs (with no ammo mods). Put it for Vipers and you're looking at nearly 1900 rounds (3591 with Trick Mag)- and either way you don't even need ammo drops to get that many shots.

 

My advice for Dark Souls it to just man up and get it for the PS3. You need to use a gamepad to get any good use out of the PC version, and that one is full of hackers with infinite health, infinite spell castings, etc. The PS3 community is much nicer and far less toxic than the PC community. This is probably the only game where I'd say the PS3 version is naturally superior.

Oh, and you'll be super happy to know that Dark Souls 2 will be a PC game first and the console versions will be the ports.

 

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