Can we talk about Trinity? [Trinity ideas discussion]

[Guest]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

last i checked trinity didnt need an augment to full heal and i hardly call a heal you can spam emergency. shes best at one thing. Healing (energy health and shield). is she was also good at removing status why would anyone play oberon? and this is what i love about options.

Because even if Trinity can remove status she still cannot do much multi target damage/cc, strip armor without an augment, completely prevent status and walk through laser barriers on a red carpet. I'd still pick Oberon over her if I needed a dedicated armor stripper, because even Abating Link can only strip armor from 3 targets at once.

Blessing is excellent, but I can see most of the vitriol being thrown at Well of Life, which is not something you would use once you have blessing. CCing a target is pointless if it becomes harder to kill. Spamming blessing is also quite a pointless waste of energy unless you are an EV Trin.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

31 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Actually Oberon can do things Trinity can't

Knockdown Immunity and Debuff removal. Trinity can't do that. He also has much harder CCs than her, soft CC via his mass of radiation procs, strips armor without an augment and Pheonix Renewal can heal back all HP.

He's actually a pretty strong and solid alternative now.

Trinity's blessing is the best emergency heal in the game, yeah, but now there is really only 2 ways to play her, and Well of Life isn't gonna become useful anytime soon.

Link redirect 75% damage away from Trinity, while knockdown are also redirected towards the enemy.
So knockdown immunity.

Blessing restores 80% Hp and Shield while granting 50% damage reduction at cast, 
I am not sure what kind of debuff removal, but removing the effect of being hurt is sure a lot useful.

Since Blessing can effectively be recast multiple times until a status effect wear out.

Phoenix Renweal is kind of neat if you are not in a real hurry, but in most situations where healing is needed.
Teammates are having their shield and hp shredded within seconds, waiting 90 seconds for a powerful heal 
would mean a dead team, you can use crowd control skills at that point, but having no energy to fend off the enemies 
might also be a very bad situation to be in.

Energy Vampire restores energy on teammates, using Vampire leech will allow a max 1200 overshield per teammates
while the damage reduction from blessing will apply granting the 1200 shield equavalent of 300 armor when active.
Even with Energizing dash it would be hard to compete with a Trinity that just has normal duration and strength EV.

Maxed energizing dash is 5 energy per second for 30 seconds, that is 150 energy in 30 seconds.
My average EV spam speed is 1 cast / 5 second, each cast and kill with 100% power strength grant 100 energy, 
it means in 30 seconds it is roughly 6 casting if things goes on smoothly, 600 energy in 30 seconds.

And I now go with Trinity + Energizing dash so spam healing is possible even with no enemies around to EV

I usually leave the CC to my weapons. a Corrosive Corinth would keep a crowd down while the airburst strip the group of armor 
and butcher them. 

Though Well of Life can be abused on single target to wait for cryopod to heal back on defense mission, 
or synthesis target, or a heavy unit to keep it from attacking.

WOL sure isn't very useful, I wish I can cast on teammates to give them 10x HP though.


 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Datam4ss said:

Because even if Trinity can remove status she still cannot do much multi target damage/cc, strip armor without an augment, completely prevent status and walk through laser barriers on a red carpet. I'd still pick Oberon over her if I needed a dedicated armor stripper, because even Abating Link can only strip armor from 3 targets at once.

Blessing is excellent, but I can see most of the vitriol being thrown at Well of Life, which is not something you would use once you have blessing. CCing a target is pointless if it becomes harder to kill. Spamming blessing is also quite a pointless waste of energy unless you are an EV Trin.

you dont need to be an ev trin to spam blessing. lets not forget our other armor strippers. mag and frost oh and ash. again im not arguing his place i like that oberon is different from trinity because when i dont want to play trin i can play obe or harrow.

[Angelid]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you dont need to be an ev trin to spam blessing. lets not forget our other armor strippers. mag and frost oh and ash. again im not arguing his place i like that oberon is different from trinity because when i dont want to play trin i can play obe or harrow.

This the problem right here. There is no legit reason to play her. Her niche is so narrow, she fulfills no fantasy as a video game character that is supposed to fill a power fantasy, and even then the bar is so low, she has no style to her play. I love to play support characters, but she feels... So non-interactive with the world around her. I can play Harrow and feel like a priest punishing the sins of Grineer, I can play Titania and feel like a fairy kicking corpus ass. I can play Inaros and feel like an immortal... But Trinity... There's nothing. No identity tying her to this universe.

[Guest]

Actually Trinity can be the edgy emo self harm who kills everyone by hurting herself... but I don't think that playstyle is particularly fun.

[Angelid]

44 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Actually Trinity can be the edgy emo self harm who kills everyone by hurting herself... but I don't think that playstyle is particularly fun.

An actual laugh for that one, thanks for that. xD But in all honesty, can you feel a personality coming from Trinity? The only one I know of is the lobster tail meme among the community, and that's it-- and that's not even a personality trait, it's a feature of her frame...

[Guest]

Just now, Angelid said:

An actual laugh for that one, thanks for that. xD But in all honesty, can you feel a personality coming from Trinity? The only one I know of is the lobster tail meme among the community, and that's it-- and that's not even a personality trait, it's a feature of her frame...

I dunno man, but if you watch anime Trinity does have that girl in overdecorated mecha suit feel.

Not just because of all the gold bits, but the attachments on her back, the twintail, the whole dangly skirt with loads of attachment points etc.

[Dr.Wuzzah]

11 hours ago, Angelid said:

This the problem right here. There is no legit reason to play her. Her niche is so narrow, she fulfills no fantasy as a video game character that is supposed to fill a power fantasy, and even then the bar is so low, she has no style to her play. I love to play support characters, but she feels... So non-interactive with the world around her. I can play Harrow and feel like a priest punishing the sins of Grineer, I can play Titania and feel like a fairy kicking corpus ass. I can play Inaros and feel like an immortal... But Trinity... There's nothing. No identity tying her to this universe.

What??? As it stands she is one of the most requested frames for most group activities. Definitely has an identity, one that you might have grown tired of, but it exists.

Also @Ada_Wong_SG well said. Perfectly highlights what both Oberon and Trin bring to the table. Also agree with the well of life suggestion, cause the ability is redundant unless you haven't unlocked blessing.

[Angelid]

22 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

What??? As it stands she is one of the most requested frames for most group activities. Definitely has an identity, one that you might have grown tired of, but it exists.

Also @Ada_Wong_SG well said. Perfectly highlights what both Oberon and Trin bring to the table. Also agree with the well of life suggestion, cause the ability is redundant unless you haven't unlocked blessing.

'One of the most requested' is not what I am trying to say. Yes, she does her job very, very well. But the fact it's so requested yet so boring and non-interactive feels awful to play. No one wants to be the trinity of the group, unless they are some damn-dedicated Trinity mains (shoutouts to them and their perfect timed heals at some points )

And I don't mean her identity as the community sees her, I mean an identity to the game-world as a whole. She is an outlier of a system full of lore and interesting stories. You can take any other frame and tie them back to an event, or a series of events, or a person in the lore, or something like that. So many warframes, especially the last ten or so released, have some awesome lore and an identity tied to them. The only other one I can think of that might fit this category is Loki, as he doesn't have any specific lore bits on him, but at least he is cohesive and interactive with his skills and rewards his skilled play, on top of if you actually want to feel like being a ninja, you play ash or him (depending if you want multi-target damage or a good form of CC/disarm).

Trinity has neither of those. You have to be 'rewarded' by the mission and game itself, not by feel or how the skills work with one another. You have to be praised by your teammates because of how needed she is, "omg we couldn't have done without a trin".

I guess what I am trying to say is this:Trin does really well to the point someone HAS to play her in high level missions, but feels so bad to play no one really would play her casually. Her Identity within the universe is lacking, as I see nothing more than a doled up warframe, where as many warframes have such personality and fun gameplay with their mechanics.

[Dr.Wuzzah]

What does lore have to do with being a viable frame? She supports, that's her Identity. Also you mentioned Loki being rewarding.... I just MR'd regular Loki and let me tell you, he is actually a slice of cheese. I took a rank 10 Loki into a void survival for 25 min and had no problems. There are literally memes dedicated to how easy he makes the game so I wouldn't call it skilled play. Surviving with Trinity is harder, especially solo, where frames like Ash and Loki excel. After all not getting shot in the first place is preferable. 

I see what your point is when you say Trin does support really well and that's it, but that's kinda what you sign up for when you play Trin. Not to say that you have to be a team player to play Trinity. You could be selfish and go melee Trin, but that mean's you'd be supporting teammates with blessing unintentionally and sometimes energy if they are within range. I guess thinking about it, it would require some finesse to change Trin in anyway to avoid hurting her identity, other than maybe her 1. 

But I wouldn't say that nobody plays Trin casually, because I do and I've seen others do it.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Dr.Wuzzah
After thought

[Ada_Wong_SG]

11 hours ago, Angelid said:

'One of the most requested' is not what I am trying to say. Yes, she does her job very, very well. But the fact it's so requested yet so boring and non-interactive feels awful to play. No one wants to be the trinity of the group, unless they are some damn-dedicated Trinity mains (shoutouts to them and their perfect timed heals at some points )

And I don't mean her identity as the community sees her, I mean an identity to the game-world as a whole. She is an outlier of a system full of lore and interesting stories. You can take any other frame and tie them back to an event, or a series of events, or a person in the lore, or something like that. So many warframes, especially the last ten or so released, have some awesome lore and an identity tied to them. The only other one I can think of that might fit this category is Loki, as he doesn't have any specific lore bits on him, but at least he is cohesive and interactive with his skills and rewards his skilled play, on top of if you actually want to feel like being a ninja, you play ash or him (depending if you want multi-target damage or a good form of CC/disarm).

Trinity has neither of those. You have to be 'rewarded' by the mission and game itself, not by feel or how the skills work with one another. You have to be praised by your teammates because of how needed she is, "omg we couldn't have done without a trin".

I guess what I am trying to say is this:Trin does really well to the point someone HAS to play her in high level missions, but feels so bad to play no one really would play her casually. Her Identity within the universe is lacking, as I see nothing more than a doled up warframe, where as many warframes have such personality and fun gameplay with their mechanics.

I am the one who plays Trinity for 75% of my 1400 hours of gameplay, around 1050 hours currently
I am those wierdo who play casually as Trinity because I like playing a healer.

I main healer in other MMO as well, being self healing is just addictive.

I don't know what kind of benefit other frames can bring to the table, but
a Warframe that runs out of Shield, Energy and HP is a dead warframe,
And that isn't very fun for anyone.

Being able to almost endlessly extend the lifespan of teammates until 
the team can safely evacuate is what a healer enjoy doing.

You would be able to do so with restores (potions) and life strike, energizing dash etc.
But seriously a frame that can does it all the time is very enjoyable to play.

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[Kayll]

Lots of my play time is on Trinity, played her ever since the beta, shes kind of fallen off over the years since other frames and new additions to the game have kind of stepped on the toes of what made her special, would be nice if she was updated just a bit to make her a little enjoyable.

[Angelid]

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

Lots of my play time is on Trinity, played her ever since the beta, shes kind of fallen off over the years since other frames and new additions to the game have kind of stepped on the toes of what made her special, would be nice if she was updated just a bit to make her a little enjoyable.

Thank you! This is exactly what I am talking about.
@Ada_Wong_SG , @Dr.Wuzzah I understand 'it's what you signed up for', when it comes to a 'team player that only heals and gives energy', Kayll says it perfectly right here. No, they never had to change Nekros or Excalibur or Hydroid, but they did to make them more enjoyable, and I believe they can do the same for Trinity.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Angelid

[(PSN)Nurolkel]

complete side note: The Amesha feels like the best Defensive team supporter in the entire game to me.. 

Could we have a Amesha warframe? 

Edited February 27, 2018 by (PS4)Nurolkel
a

[Marekthejester]

I think one of the very first thing Trinity need is additional reward screen stats. Player are highlighted for doing the most damage, killing the most ennemies, doing the most headshot... but player aren't highlighted for the amount of heal they gave and the amount of damage they prevented.

It's not much, but it would help Trinity player to feel like they had a role in the team and are rewarded for it.  

Edited February 27, 2018 by Marekthejester

[Guest]

TBH the only reward that I really appreciate when I play Trinity is that no one calls me out for S#&$ty damage output or bringing crappy guns so long it isn't the Eidolon fight. I can happily level all sorts of pointless weapons I mechanically hate now. 

But the only real reason I love playing Trinity is because fashionframe. Trinity Prime looks so good compared to every other Prime that there is really almost Zero Contest for me. Even if I am not using her powers, feels nice just to run and gun using her. All the flappy bits and the Twintail helmet. Too good to be true.

[Angelid]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Nurolkel said:

 

I honestly feel like Amesha was the WF Trinity needs to be (bit of jk here, but still, it would be interesting to see some of hte mechanics on a wf)

12 hours ago, Marekthejester said:

 

I agree completely with this. I play a lot of League of Legends, and quite frankly I was so happy when they added in the damage blocked for shields stats, as well as the vision score mechanic (If you don't play league, then you should know a lot of the Supports job is keeping many big objective spaces out of the fog of war with things called wards, which your vision score goes up if you use them well). I wish we could have something like those for WF, like a number for 'different enemies CC'd' or 'health returned to allies'.

 

12 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

 

Honestly, it's the only reason I play her anymore. Unless I am hunting Eilodons or planning for a Raid, there's no reason to play her, other than for fashionframe. FeelsBadMan The fact you just 'pass by' without getting called out for no damage or bad play as a trinity being your highlight of playing her is one of the supporting evidence I have that she's basically an invisible that keeps you alive... You don't care when she's there, but when she is and she's not doing her job, most rage.