A gimmick to encourage gunplay : weapon holstered gets reloaded at half/quarter rate

[Ldezzer]

Currently, in warframe, the only reasons to switch weapons are either if weapon can't reach enemy or you're out of ammo on primary, but i would like to encourage gun-play in warframe : weapons holstered will get reloaded automatically at half/quarter the speed of normal reload

It would help a lot in middle of skirmish so when one weapon's magazine empties, you switch to another and kill enemies while first weapon reloads. Since holstering rates in warframe are fairly slow, this system would be harder to exploit while also encouraging adding holster rate mods to weapons

Edited November 28, 2017 by Ldezzer
Edited title

[MessoR]

[Ldezzer]

oh, lol

EDIT : btw, is there same mod for secondary weapons?

Edited November 28, 2017 by Ldezzer

[VampirePirate]

I switch weapons all the time.  What are you talking about?

Ammo isn't normally a problem for me either.

i think the reason players don't like to swap weapons is because they are addicted to their metas.

No real tactics.

Edited November 28, 2017 by VampirePirate

[Luther848]

3 hours ago, VampirePirate said:

I switch weapons all the time.  What are you talking about?

Ammo isn't normally a problem for me either.

i think the reason players don't like to swap weapons is because they are addicted to their metas.

No real tactics.

Wut?

Players don't switch weapons because it doesn't feel good to switch weapons. Every time I switch my weapons it feels so out of place with the fast and fluid gameplay that I'm used to. It's so slow and we have to go through the whole holstering and unholstering action each and every time when in other games there's a quick transition between weapon swapping that allows you to change for the situation. There also isn't much reason to switch when you can bullet jump to your target in a few seconds. Even if you don't bullet jump to them someone else will kill them with their guns or abilities making it almost pointless to change your weapons because by the time you do the enemy is already dead.

 

[Luther848]

In reply to the topic

The only reason I don't switch more often is because it takes so long. Reloads in this game are fairly short for the most part with the average being close to 2 seconds. It's simply faster for many weapons to reload than to switch to a new weapon. Increase weapon swap to like 1 second or less and you fixed the problem entirely.

[VampirePirate]

3 minutes ago, Luther848 said:

Wut?

Players don't switch weapons because it doesn't feel good to switch weapons. Every time I switch my weapons it feels so out of place with the fast and fluid gameplay that I'm used to. It's so slow and we have to go through the whole holstering and unholstering action each and every time when in other games there's a quick transition between weapon swapping that allows you to change for the situation. There also isn't much reason to switch when you can bullet jump to your target in a few seconds. Even if you don't bullet jump to them someone else will kill them with their guns or abilities making it almost pointless to change your weapons because by the time you do the enemy is already dead.

 

Okay.  So what?  What does that have to do with my comment?

I said "I think the reason players don't like to swap weapons is because..."  In no way did I make my opinion factual.

If you don't like to swap weapons, then that's you.

The point i was making is that not all players fit within the statements the original post made.  When you make as statement like this "Currently, in warframe, the only reasons to switch weapons are either if weapon can't reach enemy or you're out of ammo on primary", you are stating it as a fact that is across the board.

My point is that I am a player that takes all weapons into a mission with tactics in mind, and when i switch weapons, i do it for tactical reasons.  My comment about begin "addicted to metas" is not wrong, though it is my opinion.  I can back it up from testimonies of being on a team with players that cared nothing more then using Simulacor (don't remember how to spell it), because that was the meta of that time.  Before that, i remember when everyone only used Soma Prime.

When I enter a mission, i have a few things in mind.  What will i do if i get shot down and what weapon would be most effective for my gameplay if that happens?  What if my machine gun proves ineffective, will my secondary do the trick when i need it?  What if i just need to focus on melee more so than shooting, what weapon should i use for this and to help me stay alive during the mission?  I'm never a one-weapon player.  In other words, lacking ammo or difficulty with enemy reach are not the only reasons to switch weapons.

[Luther848]

1 minute ago, VampirePirate said:

Okay.  So what?  What does that have to do with my comment?

I said "I think the reason players don't like to swap weapons is because..."  In no way did I make my opinion factual.

If you don't like to swap weapons, then that's you.

The point i was making is that not all players fit within the statements the original post made.  When you make as statement like this "Currently, in warframe, the only reasons to switch weapons are either if weapon can't reach enemy or you're out of ammo on primary", you are stating it as a fact that is across the board.

My point is that I am a player that takes all weapons into a mission with tactics in mind, and when i switch weapons, i do it for tactical reasons.  My comment about begin "addicted to metas" is not wrong, though it is my opinion.  I can back it up from testimonies of being on a team with players that cared nothing more then using Simulacor (don't remember how to spell it), because that was the meta of that time.  Before that, i remember when everyone only used Soma Prime.

When I enter a mission, i have a few things in mind.  What will i do if i get shot down and what weapon would be most effective for my gameplay if that happens?  What if my machine gun proves ineffective, will my secondary do the trick when i need it?  What if i just need to focus on melee more so than shooting, what weapon should i use for this and to help me stay alive during the mission?  I'm never a one-weapon player.  In other words, lacking ammo or difficulty with enemy reach are not the only reasons to switch weapons.

But you don't need to switch weapons for any other reasons than the one's he listed. You could easily play the whole game with just 1 well built weapon (not counting Sorties). There are very few situations where you need any tactics beyond kill everything or solve a simple puzzle which don't require weapon switching. Even when you are using a sniper rifle there isn't any form of tactics beyond "shoot dude in head"

People don't switch even with non-meta weapons and there are way more reasons than simply it's the "Meta". Someone could be trying out a weapon for the first time, it could one of their personal favorites, or the mission could simply be too short for any meaning weapon swapping to occur. It also doesn't help that weapon swap mods are all pretty bad overall. Would you choose swap speed over Damage, status chance, crit, power strength, range, efficiency, or an augment?

Weapon swapping also doesn't have any beneficial mods. For example the Acolyte mods that encourage a certain playstyle  by giving buffs based on accomplishing a goal but there are no mods that do anything remotely close for weapon swapping. If DE wanted people to swap weapons they would create a mod that buffs Status, Crit, or some ability stats when you headshot  an enemy, gives a buff to swapping speed, and lasts for like 20 seconds and stacks. 

Imagine a swap speed mod that gives a Crit buff for primary, Status for secondary, and an Attack Speed buff for melee when you make a kill but it only actives when you kill an enemy with your primary, secondary, and melee within 5 seconds but buff lasts for 15 and can be refreshed. It would make swapping worthwhile and give you a reason to swap weapons beyond I ran out of Ammo and don't have Carrier.

It's not the "Meta" that stops people from swapping it's the terrible execution. Swapping isn't interesting enough to justify having the slow speed and is only useful with a small pool of weapons. There's no real reason to use swap speed mods for such a terrible mechanic when you could just not swap at all. The worst part is that this could all be fixed by making swapping faster. The ability to combo weapons would be amazing but isn't feasible because by the time you switch the weapon effect that wanted to combo with is already over.

[VampirePirate]

3 minutes ago, Luther848 said:

<snip>

But you don't need to switch weapons for any other reasons than the one's he listed. You could easily play the whole game with just 1 well built weapon (not counting Sorties). There are very few situations where you need any tactics beyond kill everything or solve a simple puzzle which don't require weapon switching. Even when you are using a sniper rifle there isn't any form of tactics beyond "shoot dude in head"

Me: I'm not disputing any of that.  I'm saying I am a player that don't need to be encouraged to swap weapons.  There are others like myself.  I have my reasons beyond what was listed.  To you there may be few situations that need tactics, but for me, I use tactics all the time.  It's just a difference in playstyle.  Can warframe use a bit more interesting features?  Of course.

People don't switch even with non-meta weapons and there are way more reasons than simply it's the "Meta".

Me: Sure.  Never said Meta is the only reason.

Someone could be trying out a weapon for the first time, it could one of their personal favorites, or the mission could simply be too short for any meaning weapon swapping to occur. It also doesn't help that weapon swap mods are all pretty bad overall. Would you choose swap speed over Damage, status chance, crit, power strength, range, efficiency, or an augment?

Me: Sure.  Swap mods are crap.  That's no reason to avoid switching weapons.  If the devs provided better swap mods, would I use them?  Yes, if i find them useful.  other than that, I never cared or relied on swap speed.   I'm too keen of a player to worry about that or complain about it.  I improvise often in battle.

Weapon swapping also doesn't have any beneficial mods.

Me: Yes.  That's what this thread is about obviously.

For example the Acolyte mods that encourage a certain playstyle  by giving buffs based on accomplishing a goal but there are no mods that do anything remotely close for weapon swapping. If DE wanted people to swap weapons they would create a mod that buffs Status, Crit, or some ability stats when you headshot  an enemy, gives a buff to swapping speed, and lasts for like 20 seconds and stacks.

Me: This is not a fair argument to mention DE in such a way, being that you don't know what they wanted or intended.  We can only assume.  Sure would be nice if they added those features though.  I'm not disputing that.

Imagine a swap speed mod that gives a Crit buff for primary, Status for secondary, and an Attack Speed buff for melee when you make a kill but it only actives when you kill an enemy with your primary, secondary, and melee within 5 seconds but buff lasts for 15 and can be refreshed. It would make swapping worthwhile and give you a reason to swap weapons beyond I ran out of Ammo and don't have Carrier.

Me: Interesting ideas.  Because i don't rely on swap speed, or companions, i would not care.  However, if such mods existed and i found them to be useful, i would use them.

It's not the "Meta" that stops people from swapping it's the terrible execution.

Me: Yup.  Right.  I never said that.

Swapping isn't interesting enough to justify having the slow speed and is only useful with a small pool of weapons.

Me: I never cared how fast or slow swapping is.  It's never been a bother for me at all.  I need a greater reason to care.

There's no real reason to use swap speed mods for such a terrible mechanic when you could just not swap at all. The worst part is that this could all be fixed by making swapping faster. The ability to combo weapons would be amazing but isn't feasible because by the time you switch the weapon effect that wanted to combo with is already over.

Me: Alright.  I'm not disputing that.  I'm not disputing anything in this thread.  I'm saying, i never saw a reason to complain about swap speed.  I'm never bothered by the swapping mechanic.  The speed has never bothered me.  I don't pay it any mind when I'm in battle, and i swap weapons often.  If the devs provide mods or make the swapping faster somehow, i would not mind it.  I'm just saying that weapon distance and ammo have not been the sole reason for me swapping weapons.  In other words, if there are mods that may help me -- being that i am a swapping fool in battle -- it wouldn't be a bad thing, but i certain don't need encouragement for swapping weapons.  Some players do, i guess. 

One problem i do see is mod slotting.  I would not want to replace anything in my builds for weapon-swap mods.  I would rather there be a utility mod slot available exclusively for that purpose, sort of like the exilus mod adapter thing.  (Forgot spelling.)

[-CM-Machete]

What you are proposing is not a gimmick, it's an interesting mechanic, the actual gimmick is the existence of such parameter as holstering speed and making the default so slow so the mods for it are not useless, it's an artificial problem. Holstering speed is a mechanic that literally punishes the player to get across an unfun and forced level of micromanagement, even with Exilus mods being a thing. It would be really nice if devs took the chance to reply to this kind of posts and give their reasons so these types of discussions didn't turn into fights between people who are proposing a change and those who don't like the change because reasons ("there is a mod for that", "I only spam X meta mlg primary so I don't see your suggestion necessary for any other member of the community", "deal with it").

Edited December 23, 2017 by -CM-Machete

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

On 11/28/2017 at 5:36 PM, MessoR said:

That said, why would anybody cut their own damage output off by any amount for holstered reload that takes longer to reload than actually just reloading? None, to be quite honest.

[Leqesai]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

That said, why would anybody cut their own damage output off by any amount for holstered reload that takes longer to reload than actually just reloading? None, to be quite honest.

This is a fundamental problem with warframe. There are too many mods that just boost DPS.

DPS in this game will always reign supreme.

What we need, for QOL mods to be effective is either an additional exilus slot on weapons, specifically for utility mods, or a sweeping removal of damage/multishot mods.

Personally I'd prefer the extra mod slot for utility. Warframes have it and it makes building much more interesting.