Gara Mass Vitrify feedback

[Frankdark]

Funny thing is. 
First i was Thinking ok, i only use 2 and 4 just to give a bit extra "umpf"
But now after the patch i relised that there is missing something.

And Gara goes done from "most played" to "i have it"

Honestly i had relised how boring gara is.
And i would say she needs 3 and 4 changed and some tweaks to 2

[LEGION346]

Yes. Gara needs changes. Her MV unique aspect was taken away and replaced with "Snow Globe Wannabe" Concept which is bad. In previous thread on nearly 33(!) pages, many players, including me, were posting their ideas, their disapproval to those changes and possible outcomes of those changes which in most part, became true. After the patch Brozime tested Gara. With 180% power and no armor mods, Gara wall had 4k hp. Frost bubble with ONLY Steel Fiber and 100% power had nearly 8k. Double of what Gara has. And frost globe can be stacked 4 times, protect from every angle and can absorb dmg while being invincible. Gara MV, AN ULTIMATE FCKING ABILITY, in comparison, is a joke. Joke that DE will most likely leave behind. 

Also what is more funny, they "fixed" Octavia which made her even more broken and powerful. And she was already powerful. 

Gara needs buffs now. Remove Armor Scaling from MV. Gara HAS NO USE OF ARMOR FOR F SAKE. 

Increase scaling from Power.

Give MV more base HP. 7500 as a test. Current base is a joke and disrespect towards players and goes against "more engaiging" gameplay DE wants (#OctaviaSoActiveFrame) since you need to recast is right away because section got destroyed immediately. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by LEGION346

[(PSN)PowerArmorMeow]

35 minutes ago, LEGION346 said:

Yes. Gara needs changes. Her MV unique aspect was taken away and replaced with "Snow Globe Wannabe" Concept which is bad. In previous thread on nearly 33(!) pages, many players, including me, were posting their ideas, their disapproval to those changes and possible outcomes of those changes which in most part, became true. After the patch Brozime tested Gara. With 180% power and no armor mods, Gara wall had 4k hp. Frost bubble with ONLY Steel Fiber and 100% power had nearly 8k. Double of what Gara has. And frost globe can be stacked 4 times, protect from every angle and can absorb dmg while being invincible. Gara MV, AN ULTIMATE FCKING ABILITY, in comparison, is a joke. Joke that DE will most likely leave behind. 

Also what is more funny, they "fixed" Octavia which made her even more broken and powerful. And she was already powerful. 

Gara needs buffs now. Remove Armor Scaling from MV. Gara HAS NO USE OF ARMOR FOR F SAKE. 

Increase scaling from Power.

Give MV more base HP. 7500 as a test. Current base is a joke and disrespect towards players and goes against "more engaiging" gameplay DE wants (#OctaviaSoActiveFrame) since you need to recast is right away because section got destroyed immediately. 

The Nerf hits pretty hard on Gara. I've only barely used her. People were so excited about her and so I believed in that hype. Then the Nerf came and everyone is upset. I agree the Mass Vitrify should be tweaked. I've had thought about her for awhile as I played her and it occurred to me that everyone wants her to be like frost in terms of defense. Prior to the nerf she was just better than Frost and to have that happen to one of the "grandfather" frames and have Frost fade into disuse obscurity would be sad. 

I think people need to think outside the box right now. Gara is a glass frame and glass is fragile and there are certain properties that glass has over a thick layer of ice.

Which I propose that Gara's Mass Vitrify should be allowed for multiple casts. The wall itself is fragile but what if the player could start and stop the cast? Multiple times?

This way the player can create layers of defenses unlike Frost. I think this would make her fairly unique to Frost. On one hand her defense remains somewhat fragile but with multiple layers of vitrify the enemies have to literally work there way through an onion of glass to get to her. Yeah panels will break but multiple rings make it so that it doesn't matter as there will be another layer behind that broken glass panel.

I also think that range should determine the height of this ring from base Gara's MV just being the right height of the average frame to Gara Sporting range mods making respectable sized pillars. I think that would remove the Gara jumping into the air to cast a MV pillar. 

With these kinds of tweaks particularly the first one I mentioned it would make Gara a frame that centers more on her efficiency and energy management to create multiple glass layers.

Hell, augments mods in the future could be that Gara makes thicker glass walls or create bullet proof glass walls, or even allows for multiple layers to be casted in a single cast , of course for some kind of drawback maybe.

This is just my two cents from the first few minutes of playing her. I wanted to cast multiple instances of MV but in the end doing so removes the first wall which left me highly disappointed.

Edited December 13, 2017 by (PS4)PowerArmorMeow

[LEGION346]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)PowerArmorMeow said:

The Nerf hits pretty hard on Gara. I've only barely used her. People were so excited about her and so I believed in that hype. Then the Nerf came and everyone is upset. I agree the Mass Vitrify should be tweaked. I've had thought about her for awhile as I played her and it occurred to me that everyone wants her to be like frost in terms of defense. Prior to the nerf she was just better than Frost and to have that happen to one of the "grandfather" frames and have Frost fade into disuse obscurity would be sad. 

I think people need to think outside the box right now. Gara is a glass frame and glass is fragile and there are certain properties that glass has over a thick layer of ice.

Which I propose that Gara's Mass Vitrify should be allowed for multiple casts. The wall itself is fragile but what if the player could start and stop the cast? Multiple times?

This way the player can create layers of defenses unlike Frost. I think this would make her fairly unique to Frost. On one hand her defense remains somewhat fragile but with multiple layers of vitrify the enemies have to literally work there way through an onion of glass to get to her. Yeah panels will break but multiple rings make it so that it doesn't matter as there will be another layer behind that broken glass panel.

I also think that range should determine the height of this ring from base Gara's MV just being the right height of the average frame to Gara Sporting range mods making respectable sized pillars. I think that would remove the Gara jumping into the air to cast a MV pillar. 

With these kinds of tweaks particularly the first one I mentioned it would make Gara a frame that centers more on her efficiency and energy management to create multiple glass layers.

Hell, augments mods in the future could be that Gara makes thicker glass walls or create bullet proof glass walls, or even allows for multiple layers to be casted in a single cast , of course for some kind of drawback maybe.

This is just my two cents from the first few minutes of playing her. I wanted to cast multiple instances of MV but in the end doing so removes the first wall which left me highly disappointed.

Like the idea of multi layer wall. It would make more unique to Frost. With this, I would also still add more scaling and more base HP. Wall atm is too fragile. And no, Glass can be hard to break. I think even now we have glass that is harder than metal. 

Also, players compare her to Frost because both are frames who lean towards defense more than any other frames. Players finally got an alternative to frost and then the alternative was taken away. 

[(PSN)PowerArmorMeow]

I agree with its base hp being bumped up enough so it can somewhat take a beating, and with the multiple layers of MV casts it would mitigate abit of her weaknesses right now.

I also understand there are certain kinds of glass that are harder than metal. Metallic Glass 

 

[Phobonaut]

Multi layer walls? Imagine if it would give MV a linear or exponential boost? Like put up one MV wall, get 100 EHP on your wall. Put up two MV walls, get 200 EHP, put up three MV walls, get 300 EHP... you get the idea.

Kinda fits Gara since she's already all about having a million synergies.

[(PSN)PowerArmorMeow]

7 minutes ago, Phobonaut said:

Multi layer walls? Imagine if it would give MV a linear or exponential boost? Like put up one MV wall, get 100 EHP on your wall. Put up two MV walls, get 200 EHP, put up three MV walls, get 300 EHP... you get the idea.

Kinda fits Gara since she's already all about having a million synergies.

Yeah and since it breaks in panels the barrier could be spinning as well this way even if a panel gets broken it makes it hard for the enemies to penetrate a moving defense.

Hell she could even get a augment mod where the spinning glass panels are moving so fast that they actually do damage to enemies trying to get through those layers.

Edited December 13, 2017 by (PS4)PowerArmorMeow

[Helaton]

Just different ideas for Mass Vitrify (different from previous).

• Keep health the same. But constantly channeling the #4 increases the damage resistance of the wall during this channeling and heals it.  If a section breaks it takes a bigger chunk of energy to replace it (while damage resistance and healing are slow drain). If someone really does want to run a #4 build, they can. Anytime you run out of energy or stop channeling, the wall grows brittle. But in danger of being a 1 trick pony which I am ok with if people want to play that way.
• Some type of indicator that a section of wall is going to break. (Glass has cracks/falling apart etc.)  There's no warning about when the wall suddenly goes down. 
• When a wall breaks, have glass scattered on the ground that slows with a chance of staggering enemies and causes them to take slash damage when they are passing through the broken section for a short amount of time (based on duration). (Vitrify nearby intruding enemies, slow newly arrived enemies that show up after.) The protection of the wall at high levels is basically nothing, but the initial vitrify and then fragments after are just as effective on a level 10 as they are on a level 150.

[LEGION346]

Not the clip I had in mind but as always, Brozime has fair and good argument https://clips.twitch.tv/SarcasticLitigiousAdminVoteYea

[Slimspadey101]

Do me a favor and google the definition of Vitrify. Afterward consider what the design concept would be for an ability called Mass Vitrify. If you imagine that said ability would create an impenetrable glass wall then I don't know what world we are living in anymore. The changes made, in my opinion, reflect a more logical design for the ability. How did DE decide that releasing her with that broken wall was an okay thing to do? I can't fathom it, but it was that decision that's duped some Tenno into believing that Gara is something she's not.

What bothers me now is that most people don't seem to see the problem as it is, because as far as I've seen, no one has taken the time to explain the situation correctly. The frustration is understandable, but to aim it at this patch is misguided. Her release state was the mistake, not this patch. Does that make sense? Wishing that Mass Vitrify would be or should be a better Snow Globe isn't good for anyone. The barrier is merely a bonus on top of the vitrification process. It's meant to hinder enemies outside of the ability's effective radius; that's all. It serves a similar purpose to the blind effect of Oberon's 4th ability.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Slimspadey101

[Helaton]

40 minutes ago, Slimspadey101 said:

Do me a favor and google the definition of Vitrify. Afterward consider what the design concept would be for an ability called Mass Vitrify. If you imagine that said ability would create an impenetrable glass wall then I don't know what world we are living in anymore. The changes made, in my opinion, reflect a more logical design for the ability. How did DE decide that releasing her with that broken wall was an okay thing to do? I can't fathom it, but it was that decision that's duped some Tenno into believing that Gara is something she's not.

What bothers me now is that most people don't seem to see the problem as it is, because as far as I've seen, no one has taken the time to explain the situation correctly. The frustration is understandable, but to aim it at this patch is misguided. Her release state was the mistake, not this patch. Does that make sense? Wishing that Mass Vitrify would be or should be a better Snow Globe isn't good for anyone. The barrier is merely a bonus on top of the vitrification process. It's meant to hinder enemies outside of the ability's effective radius; that's all. It serves a similar purpose to the blind effect of Oberon's 4th ability.

I do see it making a glass wall though. Of enemy bodies.  Which could be really cool that enemies have to shoot through their own brethren, killing them to get at you.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I agreed that Gara's 4 needed to be changed but not like it was. 

It's max health (with appropriate mods) needs to be adjusted to something like 500,000 to be usable in common high level content. It can't be stacked to a million health, and it doesn't have invulnerability, and it has no roof...(<.<) making it awkward enough to use in many maps so it shouldn't be so fragile that it is completely ineffective.

It also doesn't help that Spectrorage, that would be used to distract enemies from damaging the wall, is useless even in low level content due to having health of its own. Making Spectrorage invulnerable and increasing MV's health could make a huge difference on her sustainability. Wouldn't hurt if they added a form of self repair mechanic to the wall as well. 

[Tokens210]

On 12/13/2017 at 4:41 PM, Slimspadey101 said:

Do me a favor and google the definition of Vitrify

in many cases the literal meaning or definition of the name of the ability doesnt play into it that much

mesa 4 is called peacemaker, which has nothing todo with the fact that the ability basically 1 shots any enemy in range, only relation is it uses guns which peacemaker is the name of a gun or a nickname given to a gun

banshee 4 is sound quake, literally doesnt do anythng the description says but instead looks to open up air vents that blast and stumble enemies (seriously banshee descriptions need some work, most noted by how many people building her for sound quake dont realize its a efficiency and duration based ability)

Ash 4 is blade storm which in no way leads you to believe he turns into neo from the matrix and begins teleporting around the level basically insta killing everything depending on loadout

inaros 4 is called scarab swarm, youd think by the name that you call in scarab pet or something when in reality you drain your own health to get more armor called scarab armor, and ending it can blast an enemy with scarabs, so inaros starts off different but comes full circle lol

[Phobonaut]

A really weak argument @Tokens210 given that all you do is bring in poetic ability names, while Mass Vitrify is a clearly defined chemical term. I gotta agree with @Slimspadey101here. I guess we've all been looking at Gara wrong. Mass Vitrify's wall is just a little extra, the real meat of the move is a radial freeze.

[timur_the_lame]

55 minutes ago, Phobonaut said:

A really weak argument @Tokens210 given that all you do is bring in poetic ability names, while Mass Vitrify is a clearly defined chemical term. I gotta agree with @Slimspadey101here. I guess we've all been looking at Gara wrong. Mass Vitrify's wall is just a little extra, the real meat of the move is a radial freeze.

So, in other words, you are in favor of DE giving her a useless fourth ability.  While you, as a Gara player, are sitting still with your hands up like a moron, the rest of your team is one hit killing everything in the mission before your vitrify can reach them.

[Phobonaut]

I am in favour for DE doing whatever they had in mind when they planned Gara.

[timur_the_lame]

Just now, Phobonaut said:

I am in favour for DE doing whatever they had in mind when they planned Gara.

That would be reverting the changes they have made and giving her back a useful fourth ability, since that is how they released her after taking the months of planning, modeling, programming, and testing necessary before releasing her.

[Phobonaut]

Are you completely braindead? It's obvious that DE didn't intend Gara to become Frost 2.0 or they would have just left things as they are.

[Tokens210]

14 hours ago, Phobonaut said:

A really weak argument @Tokens210 given that all you do is bring in poetic ability names, while Mass Vitrify is a clearly defined chemical term

that was exactly the point, nothing weak about it, the other argument was look up the definition of vitrify, meaning it was supposed to do exactly as the definition states

which doesnt matter since other characters abilities dont always do directly as the name suggests or arnt even related to the names

 

when Gara was first released she was a jack of all trades type frame, the was clearly stronger in specific point protection, but she could also go tanky, or also go DPS

 

the big bump in CC her wall now has wasn't there before the changes, which to me personally says DE planned to have it be a solid wall then said oops that might be a bit too much so they attempted a change

 

now after the changes, nothing is different on lower levels, on almost all lower level defense missions i can place a wall and guess what, its there for like 30 rounds now instead of 55secs lol

except its fairly useless on anything later leveled, where on them you simply splinter storm, spam and smash the walls and you and the point, vip, team mates are now un killable while the storm is up, while being able to kill any type enemy at any level without bullets by simply getting close enough that the storm kills them

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Tokens210

[allibound]

Anyone seen a Gara in any capacity other than master fodder since this happened? 

[LEGION346]

Nope. Her only saving grace is touch of death build. Other than that, she is not worth picking over other frames. 

[Phobonaut]

I still see Gara in high level content. I guess all the low MR babies just stopped cheesing her wall on Hydron, which I guess is as DE intended it.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 13.12.2017 um 10:37 schrieb Frankdark:

Funny thing is. 
First i was Thinking ok, i only use 2 and 4 just to give a bit extra "umpf"
But now after the patch i relised that there is missing something.

And Gara goes done from "most played" to "i have it"

Honestly i had relised how boring gara is.
And i would say she needs 3 and 4 changed and some tweaks to 2

Sooooo...mass vitrify afk was acceptable but 2+4 is boring to you?....

For real?

[(PSN)PowerArmorMeow]

While personally I still think the player should be able to cast Mass Vitrify multiple times for a layered defense. I realized after playing Gara and getting her to rank 30 even potato-ing her I found her abilities " Splinter storm " utterly useless. I understand it suppose to damage enemies that get close, hinders their weapons while buffing defenses. It doesn't feel like it does that at all though. I still get shot at and as Gara I rarely ever go melee. I think they should change this ability maybe to something that weaponizes her glass barrier like making it a spikey barrier so enemies that butt up against get damaged and when you voluntarily shatter it does extra damage, or even have the barrier shatter and make a literal storm of shards of glass from the barrier.

Either that or cause Splinter Storm to make Gara passive more active as light reflecting light from shards of glass could blind enemies or even have said shards embed them into the eyes of the enemy. Anything that makes Gara's 2 useful.

I've used Spectrorage and I'm ok with it it does distract enemies as intended and it does lure enemies from attacking my Vitrify barrier but I know that when the enemies break the mirrors they're suppose to get damaged but from my experience I've never seen those mirror break once. ( Mind you the way the mirrors are spinning in Spectrorage could be implemented with mass vitrify's segments glass panels, but you know lets just gloss over the spinning layered defense I suggested at the start.) Also to mention the way my Gara is built spectro rage makes ALOT of mirrors that its kinda ridiculous but awesome too.Just sayin.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by (PS4)PowerArmorMeow

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)PowerArmorMeow:

 

Why would you even melee? Finishers are cool and all but to use her 2 all you gotta do is literally running up to enemys for them to die. As much as an intensify gets you to 90% damage reduction, that it indees does. Everything else is managed by her 3, which generates aggro and her 4, that is defense aside also Cc, aoe and a damage buff to your raw damage (what includes splinter storm) to any enemy affected for its full durarion. Barrier or not.

You gotta build for it tho, what means range and defaults narrow mindet.