Unofficial Weapon Benchmark

[Definitegj]

I understand why you want more mods to be taken out. however it just adds in complexity. don't forget we are also taking out damage auras like corrosive and rifle amp. so for a normal rifle you are already losing 165% + 27% or  -30% armor

 

in the future I'll place a ban on more mods if needed, but I think removing the main damage mod + aura is going to go a long way to increasing the time needed to kill the boss and thus give a better feed back on the weapon.

 

Fair point, boss kill might take too long but just for now my vote remain the same, wait for others vote.

[Mythblaze]

I no longer see a point to continue.

[Chris9428]

I no longer see a point to continue.

I'll put my hopes on the new Hek. Maybe he's going to be a bullet spongy boss.

[Jeerome0406]

Not gonna lie, I am going to be sad when we start having to limit ourselves. It kinda loses the fun, by doing that. For me at least. But I will try to help out any way I can. I might still make max builds any ways, however.

[Rompido]

I'll put my hopes on the new Hek. Maybe he's going to be a bullet spongy boss.

 

have not tried it yet.

 

 

Not gonna lie, I am going to be sad when we start having to limit ourselves. It kinda loses the fun, by doing that. For me at least. But I will try to help out any way I can. I might still make max builds any ways, however.

 

yeah... that is going to suck. I like going all out myself  :(

[Rompido]

so is that 3 no? or what

[Kinperor]

Well, I agree with your 3 points for what it's worth.

 

However, I've been thinking, how about trying on a Machine Gunner from a tier III void key? Are those pretty solid? I can't try right now.

 

Otherwise, we could go in survival and wait until the titans of meat and metal spawn (AKA the Grineer heavies). Only problem is, it's really @(*()$ unreliable and could be a massive pain to go for long stretches at a time. 

[Rompido]

perhaps just stop all together till holidays are over? pick it back up around Jan 10'th or so.

 

hopefully something will come our way by then.

[Chris9428]

Well, I agree with your 3 points for what it's worth.

 

However, I've been thinking, how about trying on a Machine Gunner from a tier III void key? Are those pretty solid? I can't try right now.

 

Otherwise, we could go in survival and wait until the titans of meat and metal spawn (AKA the Grineer heavies). Only problem is, it's really @(*()$ unreliable and could be a massive pain to go for long stretches at a time. 

Nah, we'd need a lvl 80+ heavy gunner. And you'd have to go for ~ 60 minutes.

[Rompido]

I've personally messaged some of the DE's with a link to this post. in hopes they could perhaps some day soon introduce some sort of dummy with armor / hp / shields of different levels ( that reset upon death ) 

 

so that we can all have some sort of method to test our weapons ingame.

 

have them in dojo's or just make planet just for them.

[Chris9428]

perhaps just stop all together till holidays are over? pick it back up around Jan 10'th or so.

 

hopefully something will come our way by then.

Many people asked for a dojo target dummy. I bet we'll get that. I just hope DE will make the target dummy show your dps in a certain amount of time.

[Rompido]

I encourage all of you to message some DE's as well and see if we can get one of them to acknowledge this.

[NullCurrent]

Well, I agree with your 3 points for what it's worth.

 

However, I've been thinking, how about trying on a Machine Gunner from a tier III void key? Are those pretty solid? I can't try right now.

 

Otherwise, we could go in survival and wait until the titans of meat and metal spawn (AKA the Grineer heavies). Only problem is, it's really @(*()$ unreliable and could be a massive pain to go for long stretches at a time. 

 

The T3 gunners have too little HP and too low shields. They are not suitable as a DPS dummy when you one-shot them with headshots if it crits. Same goes for Corrupted Ancients too. Headshot, dead.

 

And yeah, I agree, survival is too hard to do every single time you want to test a weapon. And those Bombards and Napalms very rarely come alone, you might have a room or two of grineer lancers to clear out first before you can even touch the Bombard.

 

I would like to amend it for simplicity sake.

 

1) Ban on all +damage auras to the weapon being used  ( EX: rifle amp for primary , no corrosive , etc )

2) Ban on only these 3 mods - Serrattion / Point blank / Hornet Strike /

3) Melee may use w/e they wish. to include aura since no melee record has set a faster time than 5 seconds.

 

Could I get a vote on this?

 

Why would these 3 mods be excluded when they are used as a staple of every single weapon build? I don't really see the sense in taking them out from the competition as that will not produce results which are usable in the "real world" so to say.

 

It is just made worse with the corrupted mods like Heavy Caliber and Magnum Force, as their impact to the total DPS will be higher than if Serration or Hornet Strike was used too (eg. +165% for Heavy Caliber without Serration, and +62.2% with Serration). Which means that builds with those two mods (or at least Heavy Caliber) will be overrepresented in the resulting builds.

 

In addition, another mod slot has been unlocked for getting eg. even higher crits, more elementals, more fire speed, shorter reloads, whatever. But that won't be usable in the real world either, as Serration will take that spot. Of course if the other mod was better, that would have been used instead of Serration, but I don't see that happening often.

 

If you really want to make a "fair" DPS comparison, all straight up damage increasing mods should be removed, including multishot. But that screws over shotguns, hard, as mods like Blaze can't be used (and also pistols to some degree with Lethal Torrent). So in my opinion, by placing these restrictions on which mods you can and cannot use in your weapon will cause a skewed result not actually usable in the rest of the game.

 

I agree on the aura mods though, but melee videos should include if they are using it or not. Hopefully DE will amaze us with the melee rework.

[harly]

Those mods are taken out because as they are % increases to everything, they are simply linear. If you want to know what the full dps may have been, just add those %s back in. Not perfect because it doesn't take into account clip size and reloads, but given no great alternative it's something.

 

It's also assumed heavy caliber etc will be used in every build. Can you give an example of why you wouldn't for a dps test on this boss? I can't think of any. You can stand in his face so accuracy loss won't matter.

 

And the slots aren't being free'd up. They will remain unused, because as you say, every weapon would have them.

 

 

You contradict yourself by stating all straight up damage increasing mods should be removed, since as you say blaze couldn't be used. That would cause a skewed result, as you say. It would not be "fair". Removing the straight % one does not cause a skewed result between weapon types and is "fair" within that type, as fair as it can be when we can now literally one shot the boss. It sacrifices comparisons between primary, secondary, melee, since the % is different.

 

I think it's worth looking at the conclave scaling bosses. But i'll do that when I get a chance. Because the % change isn't perfect, given clip size and reload time are factors.

Edited December 22, 2013 by harly

[Rompido]

Since we couldn't get everyone together on the vote. I think its best if I just take a small break with hopes we can get some Developer input in the meanwhile.

 

if enough of us message them. they might listen.

[Kato-san]

I've personally messaged some of the DE's with a link to this post. in hopes they could perhaps some day soon introduce some sort of dummy with armor / hp / shields of different levels ( that reset upon death ) 

 

so that we can all have some sort of method to test our weapons ingame.

 

have them in dojo's or just make planet just for them.

 

Be cool to have some sort of target practice and such, but you do not need a dummy to shoot at to test dps, its simple math you just have to do to find out the dps. 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/90706-unofficial-weapon-dps-calculator-current-v050/

Some guy made a decent program showing dps of weapons.

[Chris9428]

Be cool to have some sort of target practice and such, but you do not need a dummy to shoot at to test dps, its simple math you just have to do to find out the dps. 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/90706-unofficial-weapon-dps-calculator-current-v050/

Some guy made a decent program showing dps of weapons.

Yeah well, numbers are cool.

But I don't want to see numbers only, I'd also want to see a video of it.

A few numbers don't say much about the weapon itself. 

[Rompido]

I've seen those. i have bookmarks to more than one of those. however, I've always preferred to see it AND use a graph. remember those graphs made by players do have mistakes in them.

[Rompido]

bah chris beat me to it lol.

[Xehalin]

I don't see the point of removing damage mods. We're trying to benchmark weapons, correct? We need those mods to make them reach their possible full potential. Taking them out limits it, and just makes it a headache to add back in afterward. Hell, if we're going to remove damage mods, then might as well as take all weapons and use them without mods. There. Completely non-skewed results, and completely unreliable weapons. Auras should be excluded, since they aren't apart of the weapon package. But everything else should be fair game, unless it's a bug.

 

Hell, if we had to make a point about skewed results... then using kril as a benchmark is pretty bad. He doesn't even represent the majority of the grineer anymore since they've made all these dumb changes to the damage system. Radiation and cold works best against him in terms of elements now, or something? Wouldn't be effective against lancers. I guess it's nice to see how high you can push those numbers with an effective build, but it's not that easy for the rest of the game.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Xehalin

[harly]

then using kril as a benchmark is pretty bad

 

If you have an alternative to Kril, let's hear it.

[Chris9428]

If you have an alternative to Kril, let's hear it.

True, Kril was the best way to see a weapon's potential.

But now he's too squishy.

[Definitegj]

Hell, if we had to make a point about skewed results... then using kril as a benchmark is pretty bad. He doesn't even represent the majority of the grineer anymore since they've made all these dumb changes to the damage system. Radiation and cold works best against him in terms of elements now, or something? Wouldn't be effective against lancers. I guess it's nice to see how high you can push those numbers with an effective build, but it's not that easy for the rest of the game.

 

Elite lancer is Alloy armored. Maximum level of normal lancer is only level 15.

[Xehalin]

If you have an alternative to Kril, let's hear it.

..That wasn't even the real point of my post. -sigh-

[Rompido]

It's ok, thoughts are valid. Don't be discouraged. I want to hear what all have to say.